Cracker Jack Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 What women consider "creepy" is entirely subjective. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, female friends of mine consider it "creepy" when a guy approaches them when they're out; even if it's just to say hi. Then there are other women I know who love when a man "takes charge" and approaches them out in public, whether they're with their friends or not. No one's a mind reader, so chances have to be taken. If I approached one of my female friends (assuming they weren't my friends) in public and said hi to one of them, and tried to chat them up, does that make me creepy? Even considering the fact that I have 0 knowledge of this behavior being unsettling to them? Now, if I continued to talk to them even after they made it clear that they weren't comfy with cold approaches, then I can see how that would make me creepy. Hell, even if he gave her the flowers in person, she still might've considered it creepy. There's no way of knowing this stuff without testing it first.
udolipixie Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 What women consider "creepy" is entirely subjective. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, female friends of mine consider it "creepy" when a guy approaches them when they're out; even if it's just to say hi. Then there are other women I know who love when a man "takes charge" and approaches them out in public, whether they're with their friends or not. No one's a mind reader, so chances have to be taken. If I approached one of my female friends (assuming they weren't my friends) in public and said hi to one of them, and tried to chat them up, does that make me creepy? Even considering the fact that I have 0 knowledge of this behavior being unsettling to them? Now, if I continued to talk to them even after they made it clear that they weren't comfy with cold approaches, then I can see how that would make me creepy. Hell, even if he gave her the flowers in person, she still might've considered it creepy. There's no way of knowing this stuff without testing it first. What women consider creepy is entirely subjective because it's based on what that person finds inappropriate or unsettling. I guess that why so many guys are quick to trivialize how their actions affect girls because it isn't a clear cut definition but a case by case thing. If I approached one of my female friends (assuming they weren't my friends) in public and said hi to one of them, and tried to chat them up, does that make me creepy? It makes you creepy if they find it inappropriate or are unsettled by it. Even considering the fact that I have 0 knowledge of this behavior being unsettling to them? Yes even considering lack of knowledge. Ignorance and intent doesn't change how someone feels towards something they find creepy. As for the flower thing she most likely would have thought it was creepy if he had given it to her in person because he probably would have gone to her house instead of do it at school. If she thought a strange guy she doesn't know (?) knowing her address and birthday was creepy then she would have been freaked by that guy showing up at her doorstep. Yes the only way to test it out is by a case by case basis but that doesn't change the fact that if a girl thinks you're creepy you are creepy to her.
Cracker Jack Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 Glad you agree that the entire meaning of "creepy" is purely subjective and not universal. This also seems to fit in perfectly with Dust's explanation of this entire ordeal. So, there's no need for certain guys to feel like a "creep" (unless they're really doing some strange stuff) when certain situations are simply out of their control. Whoo hoo...
udolipixie Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 Glad you agree that the entire meaning of "creepy" is purely subjective and not universal. This also seems to fit in perfectly with Dust's explanation of this entire ordeal. So, there's no need for certain guys to feel like a "creep" (unless they're really doing some strange stuff) when certain situations are simply out of their control. Whoo hoo... Duh that's common sense creepy is subjective. It's logical it's subjective because only the person who feels creeped out gets to say what's creepy and not everyone reacts to things the same way. Actually there is a need for guys to feel like a creep. The guys should know that to that girl they were creepy. It'd be like saying if there was an imaginary house with each room a different culture there's no need for me to feel rude if I make a cultural faux pas going into the rooms unless I do something really outrageous. Yes there is I may be ignorant of how my actions may be perceived but I shouldn't trivialize someone's reaction to it. Accountability for your actions. If a guy creeps a girl out no the guy isn't a creep he's just a creep to her and he shouldn't try to trivialize that her being creeped out by saying I wasn't that bad.
Cracker Jack Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 (edited) No, not really. What the man should do is simply move on and focus on the next woman. He doesn't need to acknowledge anything, nor should he really care--especially if the woman was a complete stranger, anyway, and creeped out by something relatively minor, like a harmless approach in a bar. That's, in my opinion, not worth focusing on. I know a woman who considered any man that approached her without a certain amount of base in his voice to be creepy because he wouldn't come across as someone who's manly, and she just thought soft voices were "creepy" in general. Not gonna lie, I thought it was funny as hell because the way she described it was hilarious. You can't please everyone. No trivializing is needed. If she was someone close to him and he creeped her out by sniffing her panties when she was asleep or something creepy like that....then, yeah....accountability needs to come into play, as that really is weird. If I may ask, what are some of the things you consider "creepy" in a man? Edited July 5, 2011 by Cracker Jack
udolipixie Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 (edited) No, not really. What the man should do is simply move on and focus on the next woman. He doesn't need to acknowledge anything, nor should he really care--especially if the woman was a complete stranger, anyway, and creeped out by something relatively minor, like a harmless approach in a bar. That's, in my opinion, not worth focusing on. You can't please everyone. No trivializing is needed. If she was someone close to him and he creeped her out by sniffing her panties when she was asleep or something creepy like that....then, yeah....accountability needs to come into play, as that really is weird. If I may ask, what are some of the things you consider "creepy" in a man? Wow at the lack of accountability. So you only feel accountability is necessary if you think your behavior is creepy not if the person who is reacting to it thinks it is? In my cultural analog despite my ignorance & even if I thought the faux pas was insignificant I'd hold myself accountable for being rude to that person but not hold myself accountable for being a rude person. Just because you don't find it creepy doesn't mean she can't be entitled to be creeped out. Guys need to accept that there are girls they will be creepy to. That doesn't mean that they are a creep. That's where the can't please everyone comes in. You don't need to please her by not being creepy, just be yourself, if she's creeped out just acknowledge that to her you're creepy. The end. There's no need to focus on it what needs to be done is thinking "oh she found me creepy okay" not "oh she's a stranger who cares besides I didn't think it was creepy". Why does what I find creepy matter you're a guy- you won't bother to acknowledge if you creeped me out or care that you did unless you yourself thought it was creepy? It only matters to you not because you care enough to accept that I will find you creepy if you do those things but because you'd rather not move on to the next woman. I'm really mind boggled you'd bother to ask since you think it's only creepy if you think it's creepy as in something extreme. Edited July 5, 2011 by udolipixie spelling
Author Dust Posted July 5, 2011 Author Posted July 5, 2011 Now, if I continued to talk to them even after they made it clear that they weren't comfy with cold approaches, then I can see how that would make me creepy. Hell, even if he gave her the flowers in person, she still might've considered it creepy. There's no way of knowing this stuff without testing it first. You’re just you no matter what. Who cares if a girl thinks you are a creep. I’ve heard girls agree to go out on dates with guys they said they found kind of creepy then they end up dating them and eating their words. You just have to be yourself. Gestures like flowers tend to make girls feel uncomfortable because they often assume it means the guy has fallen in love with them or expects a lot from them or what ever. Some times they love unexpected flowers though. It can go “oh that creep I just met sent me flowers” or “Wow I think this new guy might be really great we just met and already he is sending me flowers.” I think it comes down to if they like you. If they like you creepy things will be seen as romantic. If they don’t like you romantic gestures will be seen as creepy. It’s all very subjective. Even your friends who say they don’t like being hit on in public could end up really enjoying it for all you know.
aj22one Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 " I’d like to tell women not to be afraid of creeps. Instead to try and understand a mans motivations. " The original article was for women this thread became about advising guys to just approach whoever they want with no second thoughts like I'm bothering her by intruding on her and interrupting her life because I find my sexual attraction that important. I understand the purpose it was to tell women to give creeps the benefit of the doubt that they may not be creeps just guys who aren't smooth who say silly things and are persistent. And that when they are persistent just to ignore them until the guy gets bored. So I'm correct in my statement that the OP wants girls to be understanding about creeps understanding that he won't be smooth and may have weird/awkward moments and guy's persistence even going as far even just ignoring him for a few days. I'm correct in that the OP himself is not understanding about woman's hostility to being approached & ignoring of turn off behavior (not nice rejections). He belittles what women feel creeped out by to trivial actions. He tells them not to be annoyed by approaches. My advice is that if guys want women to be understanding about strange guys & persistent guys then men should start being more understanding about hostile girls & hurtful rejections. I think you simply want the more inexperienced and shy guys to remain that way. You could care less if they ever get better with women.
Author Dust Posted July 5, 2011 Author Posted July 5, 2011 Why does what I find creepy matter you're a guy- you won't bother to acknowledge if you creeped me out or care that you did unless you yourself thought it was creepy? It only matters to you not because you care enough to accept that I will find you creepy if you do those things but because you'd rather not move on to the next woman. I'm really mind boggled you'd bother to ask since you think it's only creepy if you think it's creepy as in something extreme. I’m a little boggled he asked also. The message I hoped to get across with this thread is you will creep women out no matter what. So women need to realize that guys who don’t care and are willing to creep women out in being persistent are only rewarded, and only do better with women when compared with guys afraid. For guys I wanted them to just be themselves and not worry about what specific or groups of women found creepy. Even if a girl does find you creepy it doesn’t make you a creep. Just be yourself and be persistent within social and legal norms. The social norms you should follow are that of men not scared women.
Forever Learning Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 Twenty years ago, back in college when I was in my early twenties, I dated a creep for about a month. Something was off about him and I knew it, but I just couldn't put my finger on it. He was in one of my classes, a fellow accounting student. Unfortunately I didn't know enough to trust my gut feeling and stay away from him when he asked me out. I was naive. I had no clue of the possible danger. How could I have known? Boy howdy did I ever regret opening that can of worms!! Dated him about a month. I ended it. Or so I hoped it would end. Spent the next 2 years with him stalking me despite efforts from both the university police and local law enforcement to stop the stalking. My mother also contacted his mother to make sure his family was aware of his actions. Back then, adequate anti-stalking laws just didn't exist. It still wasn't considered a real big deal. Boys will be boys. He would come stare in the window at my workplace which scared my co-workers. I had to leave my job over it. He secretly following me when I was driving and ran me off the road. Sent tape recorded messages to me through the mail for several years. All sorts of disturbing notes which I handed over to the police as evidence. I slept with a shotgun beside my bed during my last year of college. Getting through that last year of college with the extra stress of always looking over my shoulder was quite amazing in retrospect. All this trouble and we only dated a freaking month. The moral of the story for me is, God / the universe / your higher power gives you an inner voice for a reason. The sense of fear serves a purpose to protect and warn you of danger. Don't override it or become desensitized to it. Trust when you sense someone is a 'creep' and avoid becoming involved with them.
Author Dust Posted July 5, 2011 Author Posted July 5, 2011 Twenty years ago, back in college when I was in my early twenties, I dated a creep for about a month. Something was off about him and I knew it, but I just couldn't put my finger on it. He was in one of my classes, a fellow accounting student. Unfortunately I didn't know enough to trust my gut feeling and stay away from him when he asked me out. I was naive. I had no clue of the possible danger. How could I have known? Boy howdy did I ever regret opening that can of worms!! Dated him about a month. I ended it. Or so I hoped it would end. Spent the next 2 years with him stalking me despite efforts from both the university police and local law enforcement to stop the stalking. My mother also contacted his mother to make sure his family was aware of his actions. Back then, adequate anti-stalking laws just didn't exist. It still wasn't considered a real big deal. Boys will be boys. He would come stare in the window at my workplace which scared my co-workers. I had to leave my job over it. He secretly following me when I was driving and ran me off the road. Sent tape recorded messages to me through the mail for several years. All sorts of disturbing notes which I handed over to the police as evidence. I slept with a shotgun beside my bed during my last year of college. Getting through that last year of college with the extra stress of always looking over my shoulder was quite amazing in retrospect. All this trouble and we only dated a freaking month. The moral of the story for me is, God / the universe / your higher power gives you an inner voice for a reason. The sense of fear serves a purpose to protect and warn you of danger. Don't override it or become desensitized to it. Trust when you sense someone is a 'creep' and avoid becoming involved with them. For what ever the reason if you aren’t attracted to some one then you shouldn’t date them. The story you describe shows how much variation there is in what women are talking about when they call a guy a creep. You dated a guy who stalked you for years after you tried to end contact. Most girls call a guy a creep if they dump him by ignoring him and he calls a few times trying to get her to date him again. What this guy did would obviously be considered against the law. No where am I suggesting that kind of behavior. The word creep just means so many things, it can be the guy who followed you home and is hiding outside your window, or more commonly it’s the guy who commented on one of your fb pictures or just asked you out or said “hi” once or twice.
whitefire Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 (edited) Legitimate stalker or not either way she thought it was creepy aka inappropriate behavior that unsettled her. Bad intentions or not doesn't mean much when it's about inappropriate behavior that unsettles you. It only correlates to if that behavior will continue and/or escalate. Odd you find it the words of a girl you you creeped out meaningless. This is why women continue to be hostile because guys dismiss what women find creepy as oh she only thought it was creepy because I was unattractive or like whitefire even if I know it can be creepy I didn't have bad intentions. It was his fault he creeped her out she acted accordingly. What's not his fault is how it affected him- being embarrassed & full of regret. He may be a gentleman character wise but his actions were a hermit who she most likely didn't know sending her flowers. Key word is sending her in fact it wasn't until the next day she was able to confront him. It might have be ungentlemanly to her to receive flowers at her home or in class by some guy she didn't know who apparently knew her well enough to know her birthday and address (?) She wasn't a b*tch just a girl reacting to a guy whose inappropriate behavior unsettled her. I don't doubt that my actions back then were creepy to her, but to other girls who liked me they would have been the total opposite. I knew this girl a little bit and we talked before, but I was so damn shy that I couldn't get the nerve to tell her I liked her, so I sent flowers. I thought it might work, but it didn't. And if we're talking about how my actions were inappropriate, the way she reacted was inappropriate. A simple, "Thanks, but I'm not interested." Would have turned me away from her. Save the chewing out and name calling for when the guy just won't leave the girl alone after several rejections. But as I said, that was in high school a long time ago. What happened, despite how embarrassing it was for me at the time, has no more influence over me. Edited July 5, 2011 by whitefire
Cracker Jack Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 Wow at the lack of accountability. So you only feel accountability is necessary if you think your behavior is creepy not if the person who is reacting to it thinks it is? In my cultural analog despite my ignorance & even if I thought the faux pas was insignificant I'd hold myself accountable for being rude to that person but not hold myself accountable for being a rude person. Just because you don't find it creepy doesn't mean she can't be entitled to be creeped out. Guys need to accept that there are girls they will be creepy to. That doesn't mean that they are a creep. That's where the can't please everyone comes in. You don't need to please her by not being creepy, just be yourself, if she's creeped out just acknowledge that to her you're creepy. The end. There's no need to focus on it what needs to be done is thinking "oh she found me creepy okay" not "oh she's a stranger who cares besides I didn't think it was creepy". Why does what I find creepy matter you're a guy- you won't bother to acknowledge if you creeped me out or care that you did unless you yourself thought it was creepy? It only matters to you not because you care enough to accept that I will find you creepy if you do those things but because you'd rather not move on to the next woman. I'm really mind boggled you'd bother to ask since you think it's only creepy if you think it's creepy as in something extreme. You're totally right. I just felt like messing with you in my previous response, since I know how you take accountability seriously. I like this post. You make very good points on this topic. @Dust I understand. I'm not worried about creeping out a woman anymore, since the entire situation could be out of my control. Like you said, my entire existence could be creepy to a few women. I just can't worry about things like this.
udolipixie Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 I think you simply want the more inexperienced and shy guys to remain that way. You could care less if they ever get better with women. What I want is for guys to realize no matter what there will be girls you are creepy to because creepy is subjective so guys shouldn't worry about being creepy or focus on the girls who found you creepy they should just acknowledge that to those girls they were creepy. I do not want guys to think not worrying or focusing means you get to dismiss her reaction or belittle it with oh she's overreacting or it wasn't creepy to me because they aren't the ones experiencing it because she's entitled to feel you are creepy if she thinks your behavior is inappropriate or you unsettle her. I want guys to realize the only time to worry/focus on being creepy is if you broke social norms or legal laws.
udolipixie Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 I don't doubt that my actions back then were creepy to her, but to other girls who liked me they would have been the total opposite. I knew this girl a little bit and we talked before, but I was so damn shy that I couldn't get the nerve to tell her I liked her, so I sent flowers. I thought it might work, but it didn't. And if we're talking about how my actions were inappropriate, the way she reacted was inappropriate. A simple, "Thanks, but I'm not interested." Would have turned me away from her. Save the chewing out and name calling for when the guy just won't leave the girl alone after several rejections. But as I said, that was in high school a long time ago. What happened, despite how embarrassing it was for me at the time, has no more influence over me. The other girls who liked you don't matter because creepy is subjective and the subject in this case is her. To you the way she reacted was inappropriate to her it wasn't she mostly saw you as the guy who may not get the message unless it's harsh or a guy who is the type to not leave a girl alone after several rejections. Good on not worrying about being creepy or focusing on what girls found you creepy. Great on acknowledging that to her you were creepy.
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