His answer

[AlexDP]

ES,

 

I think you should be single for a while and contemplate therapy. Your mistrust is enormous and it will destroy every relationship you enter with that mindset. Furthermore you seem to be consumed by relationships. You're going to hurt this guy.

 

EDIT: Also, I agree with Mme.Chaucer. I have a BPD ex girlfriend and she is exactly like you, ES. Trust me, you're going to hurt this guy so bad he is always going to hate your guts once it is over. How? You're already isolating him. Apparently you don't do this consciously, but you just made him ditch a friend. Now you're controlling him and generally making him crazy with your jealousy. Because your insecurity runs so deep however, you will always fabricate a reason to dump him and leave him. Honestly? No guy should ever be so unlucky to be in a relationship with you. Work on yourself and become a better, happier person.

Edited June 30, 2011 by AlexDP

[Kamille]

Because I don't trust myself to make the right decision. I don't trust my intuition or my logic.

 

 

This really needs to change ES. How did you feel right after you two talked? That was your intuition and your logic. Did you feel you could trust him? Were hurt and angry?

 

You don't need a whole board to make decisions for you. In fact, if you chose to stay in this relationship, the next time you and your bf have an issue, don't come on here for advice. Trust yourself to make the right decision. This place is actively participating in raising your anxiety and keeping you distrustful of your own decision-making.

[AlexDP]

Ugh, something about the upbringing of women just isn't right. The focus is always on how women should find the perfect guy, the perfect relationship.. What about raising women to be actual persons? Who is ES? Would she be someone if she weren't in a relationship?

[rafallus]

Seriously, just break up with him. You're only becoming more and more miserable (YOUR fault, not his) and clearly it's only going to get worse. There's nothing he can say or do that will make you feel better. I have no idea how you will function when he actually goes to Europe.

My bet: Unless they break up, she will cheat on him due to massive projection. He may or may not, not sure.

If her threads are so disturbing, then it's best to have your say and step back, instead of harassing people who make different choices than you would.

Extreme example of your logic: Pedophiles make different choices too, should we step back?

 

Please - this entire online community is obsessed with her. She gets more views and replies out of anyone on here. That's not because she's talking reason.

At this point I'm sitting with a bag of popcorn and waiting for another episode of show to unveil.

 

Morning all.

 

ES, does you boyfriend look anything like this chap?

 

 

This one?

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/4041/74881655.png

Edited June 30, 2011 by rafallus

[Chocolat]

What do you guys think on "the grass is greener" thing in general here?

 

 

Frankly, I don't see it. So he had doubts at the 2-month mark. So what? Are you saying that if this is not some fairy-tale love-at-first-sight thing it's not legitimate? Would you rather that your boyfriend was with you because he had no other choices? What exactly is so wrong with him having met 3 attractive ladies and deciding to "see it through" with one? It's perfectly normal for him to have had doubts (note the past tense). He does not have them now. Where is this "grass is greener" scenario?

 

But do you think that my first post, his answer on why he was distant at the start is legit and forgivable?

 

 

Yes and no. His answer is legit. It's not "forgivable" because there is nothing to forgive - he has done nothng wrong.

 

 

This really needs to change ES. How did you feel right after you two talked? That was your intuition and your logic. Did you feel you could trust him? Were hurt and angry?

 

You don't need a whole board to make decisions for you. In fact, if you chose to stay in this relationship, the next time you and your bf have an issue, don't come on here for advice. Trust yourself to make the right decision. This place is actively participating in raising your anxiety and keeping you distrustful of your own decision-making.

 

Kamille beat me to it. I was just going to suggest that you stop coming on LS for advice, ES. First off, it seems to me that LS weakens your ability to rely on your own judgement. You get caught up in the egative energy here... it's almost like an addiction. I can see you skimping on sleep to read the responses here, most of which are not helpful. Your confidence in yourself is reduced with each reply. Second, it strikes me that many people here do not have your best interests at heart. Some are malicious and seem to enjoy tearing you down, while others may be operating in good faith but have a biased perception of you and your bf. I think that even though you know some posters are just being cruel, deep down you wonder if they are right when they suggest you deserve poor treatment or that your bf is poised to run off with vb girl (or someone else). This is not helpful to you. I think you'd be better off posting less and relying more on your gut and actual experiences with your bf.

 

For the record: I think your bf loves you. He is a flawed human being, as we all are. Why not take all the time and energy you are putting into LS and direct it toward actions that will strengthen you and your r/s?

[rafallus]

Frankly, I don't see it. So he had doubts at the 2-month mark. So what? Are you saying that if this is not some fairy-tale love-at-first-sight thing it's not legitimate? Would you rather that your boyfriend was with you because he had no other choices? What exactly is so wrong with him having met 3 attractive ladies and deciding to "see it through" with one? It's perfectly normal for him to have had doubts (note the past tense). He does not have them now. Where is this "grass is greener" scenario?

 

Told ya, Nirvana/Utopia fallacy - if something isn't perfect, it isn't worth doing at all. Therefore nothing ends up being done.

 

People live in their basements, thinking like that, hoping that one perfect job opportunity will come up.

[Art_Critic]

Well....24 hours of peace here on LS. Who wants to party? I'll bring the booze.

 

That's a really tasteless post vsmini..

If posting on ES's threads is taking up your time and you feel it is being wasted then just stop posting.

[Art_Critic]

Close - the modern day equivalent:

Sitting in front of my laptop, rolling my eyes and clipping my toenails before bed while this head case is getting more nutty by the minute.

 

Please - this girl is a t-shirt. I come to LS to give and get help but she is the one member that's here just for fun.

 

And I wouldn't use the term lynching. That's hardly a comparison.

 

This is another tasteless post vsmini.. you might want to stop posting if you feel your time is being wasted here...

[Art_Critic]

If her threads are so disturbing, then it's best to have your say and step back, instead of harassing people who make different choices than you would.

 

All harassment does is to make everything you post, sound like "blah, blah, blah". When that happens, you become part of the problem, not part of the solution.

 

I see I'm not the only one who sees this.. .. thanks TBF for trying to help.

 

It isn't helping ES by just berating her and making fun of her..

[vsmini]

I see I'm not the only one who sees this.. .. thanks TBF for trying to help.

 

It isn't helping ES by just berating her and making fun of her..

 

Why don't you take a look at my last post on this thread. Or are you going to pull an ES and just pick and choose what to acknowledge in order to make your argument work?

[Eternal Sunshine]

Art and TBF - I want to hug you both

 

Chocolat & Kamille - you have both been kind and helpful. Yes, LS has become an addiction to me. I was up last night till 4am responding to this thread. Each malicious post made me anxious, agitated and sad. When someone said that he is going to run off with vb girl for sure - I know they are being malicious but it gets to me. I start imagining it actually happening.

 

Mme_C - It was always obvious to me that I push your buttons on a personal level and that's why you get so involved. While some parts of your posts are malicious - I do feel compassion if I remind you of a real life negative person or experience. Just remember - I am not that person. It feels like you project negative qualities onto me because of it ans painting me to be the monster.

 

vsmini - Where do I even start? Some of your posts are so nasty that they make me cry can you please try to frame your advice without calling me a nutcase in every second sentence?

 

oaks - You are a sweetheart

 

And yes, I am probably better off not posting about every single issue that pops up. Perhaps say give myself 2 weeks off from posting and just live the relationship and see how it goes.

 

My boyfriend texted me something sweet today about our relationship: "if it's too easy, it never lasts" So for now, I choose to stay. I don't see any big rush to make a decision. Perhaps things will level out and get better or get to the point where ending is inevitable. When in doubt, don't.

 

I will still be around reading and responding to other threads.

[Art_Critic]

Why don't you take a look at my last post on this thread. Or are you going to pull an ES and just pick and choose what to acknowledge in order to make your argument work?

 

Okay.. Lets..

I had to go look for it first..

I'm not into reading each of your posts vsmini and honestly after your posts earlier in this thread I was just skipping over them..

 

Fine - no more superfluous jabs at ES. It's true that that is not what I came to LS for and it makes me no better.

 

But I'll continue to post serious answers when I have them. I cannot fathom how she functions or how anyone can say "looks like things are getting better ES!" all that makes me think about are those little beta females that hung around the b*tchy prom queen and just seconded everything she said so they would feel popular.

 

You just took a swipe at her in the very same post where you said you were not going to to take jabs at here

 

Please - this entire online community is obsessed with her. She gets more views and replies out of anyone on here. That's not because she's talking reason.

 

Another jab..

While taken by itself it isn't a jab but considering all the other posts on this thread by you it really is a jab...

 

Care to elaborate on why your are still posting jabs ?

[Art_Critic]

 

Perhaps say give myself 2 weeks off from posting and just live the relationship and see how it goes.

 

My boyfriend texted me something sweet today about our relationship: "if it's too easy, it never lasts" So for now, I choose to stay. I don't see any big rush to make a decision. Perhaps things will level out and get better or get to the point where ending is inevitable. When in doubt, don't.

 

I will still be around reading and responding to other threads.

 

Good idea.. and you are right.. it will show itself as either viable or not just by remaining calm, stepping back and breathing some..

[betterdeal]

I'm fascinated by my reactions to these threads. I look forward to them, and often find myself dipping into the irrational maelstrom. Then I step back, realise it's not serving me to get too emotionally invested and, instead, ponder my buttons that are (or were) being pressed. In this way, I feel I am teasing out things to work on myself. It's quite useful, in that sense. And that's why I came to LS, to iron out my own creases.

 

Eternal Sunshine, you have a very different view of love from me.

 

I liken your idea of love to free-falling from a plane. It's weightless and exhilarating at the same time, easy to get lost in the moment and just enjoy the rush of air and adrenalin and the sense of freedom. All worries are out of mind, you're just there, free from even gravity.

 

That's what I interpret to be what you call "true" or "real" love.

 

My view is that type of love is but one form of love, and it is good in doses, but it is no more "true" or "real" than affectionate, respective, familial, joyful, playful, carnal or any other kind of love.

 

It's great to let go, be free, lost in the moment, and that's one of the things I love about sex, and the infatuation stage of a relationship. But I have also been able do that in exercise, or yoga, or meditation, or even fighting. And I realise all the other forms of love are important to me too.

 

And so is the rest of my life. My job, home, friends, family, colleagues, community, bank balance, hobbies, mind, body and soul, all matter. And finding ways to use my time on this Earth that don't rely on just one person other than me, whilst maintaining enjoyable, fruitful, dependable, free yet strong relations with people, is how I am finding happiness.

 

Beyond the physical world (e.g. the sky is blue, this chair has four legs stuff), there are many ways to interpret events and other people's intentions and feelings. You post your most prescient concerns apropos your relationship with your lover here. It's good that you do that, because it means it isn't rattling around in your brain and you aren't spewing it forth onto him or other people in your world.

 

But wouldn't it be better to be able to not worry so much? To get more sleep, and to spend more of your time doing things that make you feel good? Sometimes we can choose to be right or be happy and, in the case of relationships, being happy is more achievable and being right is illusory.

 

Your boyfriend is a muppet. You are a bit of a drama queen. I don't call you guys these things to offend; I call you them because they are true (bear in mind there are many versions of the truth) and it makes me happy to leave it at that. This does not mean I dislike you; most of my best friends are muppets and drama queens; I'm a muppet myself. If you can accept the label with humour, that's one less thing to worry about.

 

If you can extend that idea, and label your boyfriend a muppet, whilst still liking him, just you were a bit pissed at him for hanging with his ex ( and for offloading his guilty feelings for that on you ) that's another thing less to worry about.

 

And the less you worry, the happier things are, right?

[vsmini]

Okay.. Lets..

I had to go look for it first..

I'm not into reading each of your posts vsmini and honestly after your posts earlier in this thread I was just skipping over them..

 

 

 

You just took a swipe at her in the very same post where you said you were not going to to take jabs at here

 

 

 

Another jab..

While taken by itself it isn't a jab but considering all the other posts on this thread by you it really is a jab...

 

Care to elaborate on why your are still posting jabs ?

 

As you said in your last comment - it wasn't a jab. But since I've jabbed before now everything I say will be taken as such? umm ok - I don't care.

 

Prom Queen comment - not a jab - just what it reminds me of. Didn't call her a bitchy prom queen.

 

Calling her names and telling her she's stupid is a jab - which i will no longer do. You can interpret my comments any way you please.

Telling her she's being selfish and telling her the truth about what she's doing - as how most of us see it. That's not a jab.

 

Sorry - the "atta girl" attitude isn't my style when I see someone in such denial. I've been PM'd for my helpful words in this very thread. I'm not too concerned.

[heartshaped]

Yes, LS has become an addiction to me. I was up last night till 4am responding to this thread. Each malicious post made me anxious, agitated and sad. When someone said that he is going to run off with vb girl for sure - I know they are being malicious but it gets to me. I start imagining it actually happening.

 

And yes, I am probably better off not posting about every single issue that pops up. Perhaps say give myself 2 weeks off from posting and just live the relationship and see how it goes.

 

I think you should refrain from posting here about your relationship entirely. There are certain types of people in the world who are incapable of taking others' opinions and viewpoints with a grain of salt, I fear you are one of them.

 

Your insecurities only will be magnified for as long as you continue to post here about your relationship because you are incapable of brushing off the negative [and sometimes farfetched] things some have to say about you and your relationship.

 

You let the negative things others say upset you and in some cases egg you on. It doesn't matter if what the person says is valid or not, no one should have that type of sway or leeway over you or your opinions.

 

If you must seek advice from anyone, I would do so from close personal friends in real life who truly know you and have only your best interest at heart.

[Art_Critic]

I've been PM'd for my helpful words in this very thread. I'm not too concerned.

 

So you are getting/seeking external validation from LS on this thread thru pm's.. and you take jabs at her about her seeking validation....

 

mmm. okay....

[Mme. Chaucer]

Well, speaking for my own role in the online drama of ES / SAC / etc;

 

A long time ago, I shared in one of these threads that I myself used to exhibit similar behavior. I cannot know, of course, but I believe I understand what drives it, and what it feels like to be a person who would behave this way.

 

And, of course, there is my brother - who made the death of our father, our mother's life with Alzheimer's (lived here in my house with me) and her ultimate end, and all of the ensuing hard stuff ALL ABOUT HIM in the most horrible ways possible. Not to even mention all the ugliness growing up with him, which I won't go into.

 

He was abused as a child - so was I - in fact, so was the abuser - and I recognize with complete clarity the pattern of victims victimizing other people in the name of "self-protection." It's like, if I decimate you before you can hurt me, it's all justifiable in the name of my own survival. If someone actually DOES get close enough to cause hurt - anything goes. Anything.

 

But, that is FALSE and WRONG and PERPETUATES EVIL.

 

I absolutely don't think that anybody needs to take anybody else's advice here, or anyplace. Still, I have consistently tried to steer this poster away from constant focus on stuff outside of herself and obsessing about how to control all of it, and how to make how SHE feels the responsibility of other people. Blame, blame, blame.

 

I believe that when someone (I DO NOT CARE WHO, and of course this applies to myself) is in a mess, and realizes it, the first thing every single one of us needs to do is to thoroughly look at ourselves, what we are doing in that situation, maybe why we are in it, what we can do to better it, and then investigate steps to MAKE it better.

 

An occasional vent about someone's shortcomings or whatever is fine, but just focussing on what "the other" is doing, thinking, being, and how to get that all skewed around so that it meets OUR needs (maybe our need to be with a "perfect" person, or maybe our need to find a way to constantly be a VICTIM and to reap all of the attention and coddling that we can that way) is ... just profoundly wrong.

 

In the case of ES, I have (for over a year now) asked her with complete respect, during these marathons of self indulgence, to step back and look at her part in it.

 

I always ask people to try to find out how to be accountable. That is my purpose here on LS, and it is my path in MY OWN life.

 

Accountability for our own lives, our circumstances, how we treat ourselves, and how we TREAT OTHER PEOPLE.

 

ES, you NEVER even come close to touching that subject. And, you avoid holding yourself accountable with a cavalier attitude that cannot help but jab at people who are actually trying to help guide your problems towards resolution.

 

The threads are thousands (millions!) of words long, and ES does not even touch upon what SHE is doing to get herself into these painful quagmires, how cruel it is to herself, and how unconscionable it is to KNOWINGLY drag other people deeply into them just so she can get a "feeling" that she seems to pursue with the avidity of a junkie seeking heroin. Which I also have first hand experience with. I can recognize addictive behavior, and I am sensitive to the absolute destructive power of being in its grip.

 

Even if the sagas of ES et al were fabrications, I believe that the driving forces behind them are just as toxic - except there would, mercifully, not be live victims involved.

[vsmini]

So you are getting/seeking external validation from LS on this thread thru pm's.. and you take jabs at her about her seeking validation....

 

mmm. okay....

 

Yea - every time I get a PM I print it out and put it on my fridge and think about how great I am.

No - I'm not seeking out validation nor am I getting validation from any of this. I just get PM'd often from this thread and others about helpful advice I give and my no BS attitude towards it. Obviously many appreciate it. You and others don't like it - some others do - that's the way it is.

 

Long story short - I don't really care if you like my posts or not. Just continue to skip over my posts like you've been doing. ES can ignore me if she likes or PM me if my posts are that damaging to her. I invite you to do the same.

[Kamille]

 

My boyfriend texted me something sweet today about our relationship: "if it's too easy, it never lasts" So for now, I choose to stay. I don't see any big rush to make a decision.

 

I'm glad you sound more at peace ES.

 

I want to point out that you are making a decision: you're staying. You see something here that means you think it can work. You're committing to this relationship, as it is now, at least for now. This means that since you choose the relationship, you're as responsible as he is for making it work, and making it a strong one.

 

So, to repeat something that was said countless times yesterday, by many of the posters who do wish you well: stop looking for problems and start looking for ways to make this relationship, the one that you choose, stronger.

[ThePerfectJade]

MyEternalSunshine~

Come on now, you cannot be that loopy. Been in the same scenerio as of late, but was the friend. The guy is smart and is telling you what he knows you wish to believe sans you were the most attractive of the bunch...ummm yeah, right. He senses how insecure you are, as does more then 90% of the posters replying to you. He knows saying that makes you feel like it is okay then...too funny. A guy keeps 'potentials' around not because they are more average than the one giving up the goods, but because they are most likely hotter and not giving up the goods and he wants to keep them around in case they take the bait. If he was really into you, he would not have been keeping up contact with them, this until you found out and he gives in because you are screwing him and the others aren't. Why give up the one having sex with him when he is not sure the others will. He is playing you and you have the perfect vulnerability for him to mess with.

The guy I was friends with who wanted it but couldnt because of my mindset, and didn't even acknowledge having a gf, was also in mind setting up even more potential interests, gf found out, and he decided to go exclusive all sudden...this because he is getting sex from the gf and not from the others. His gameplay does not work as planned on the girls with self respect and high self esteem, he wants action game until he tires of your putty...bam, he is gone. You are his perfect toy.

And, oh, his text...lovely, sounds like he thinks you should be sooooo excited for the next 24 hrs to be around 'HIM.'

Good luck being used.

[Ms. Joolie]

Even while I believe you have created this drama, ES, I am so glad you have managed the crisis. I am ecstatic at your boyfriend being so kind with you and so generous, so understanding and so in love.

 

It makes me think of the man in my life, who’s love for me has been extraordinary. During our 5 years together, I have mostly been the drama queen. My relationship with him has carried through the ups and downs of my twenties. My own unique drama is that of my well-being. I have suffered myself with an eating disorder in my past as my own unique reaction to life. Even if the blatant behavior has died down, the noise in my head is still something I must actively work on.

 

Today I am still obsessed with myself and my life and not entirely present in my relationship with my fiancé. I believe that is why I get so involved in ES’s threads. I want her to get out of her head and enjoy her relationship with her BF, enjoy life.

 

I get so caught up in work, chores, places and things to do – as well as the noise of diet, weight, calories and food - that I feel the focus on my relationships with people get put on the backburner.

 

This is something I want to greatly alter in my life. I come to LS in the spirit of listening to other people and sharing some words, but I need to do that in my own life.

 

I need to get out of my head, I need to listen, I need to enjoy life more. And I feel this is what I am pushing for in ES’s life as well. Sigh.

 

Overall I think that while ES is very emotional, she is also very intelligent. I hope, ES that you are able to use LS to an advantage in your life. I also hope that you get something big about you and your life from all this, the lesson is implemented in your life and your life is altered for the better. By better I mean your overall health and happiness. By health and happiness I mean your well-being.

[ThePerfectJade]

"if it's too easy, then it won't last." You are loopy, so answers my previous ? in last post. You both obviously live for drama. In saying that, all your psychobabble is not 'easy,' for sure, he is getting off on your drama...that's all. A great relationship should be easy energy spent having fun ease..plus you are crazy as u self described...you are not even acting yourself around this guy...u said yourself u invented a multiple personality for yourself because your true self is boring...very odd and weird.

If you had sense, that text is negative, not positive...he is going to come across a girl who is naturally magnetic...not a fake and "good bye Dolly." He is using u for sex.

[OliveOyl]

Unlike many of the others here who are recommending you break up with your BF, and get in therapy, I think you should stay with your BF. For a handful of reasons:

 

1) Working through the relationship while IN the relationship is, in my opinion, the best therapy of all. While I think therapy can be helpful, I think it's overrated. Because it happens in a context that is outside of the issue. I'm more one for the therapy of hard knocks. Sitting on a couch discussing your issues with someone while sipping tea cannot be compared to the process of dealing with the emotions and processes evoked by the actual situation.

 

I know many will disagree but I've both had therapy and not had therapy and found that many issues did resolve themselves without therapy within the same amount of time that was recommended for therapy. Nothing like LIFE as the ultimate teacher.

 

2) All the drama aside, your BF seems like a good guy who you have a great amount of compatibility with - mentally, emotionally, physically. It could take a long time to find someone with whom you are equally compatible. You feel strongly, in a positive way, about each other. Outside of the one minor lie which he did come clean about, from what you've posted, he hasn't done anything wrong.

 

It just doesn't make sense to break up because he might stray in the future. If he does stray in the future, then break up with him then.

 

Let's look at the possible scenarios:

 

A) You break up with him preemptively. Go through weeks or months of heartache and pain. Maybe get into therapy. Talk, talk, talk (yawn, yawn, yawn). Get back into the dating pool in several months. Hard to find someone who matches up. Heck, hard to even find someone you want to date. Start feeling like he's the "one who got away." Feeling nervous with your biological clock ticking. Meanwhile, you've maybe tried the "no contact" thing with him but you can't. You're still obsessed with him - who is he dating now? Why did you let him slip away?

 

B) You stay with him. Things are still a roller coaster. Then one day, he cheats. He confesses but it's too late. You're furious and break up with him. The heartache is terrible BUT you feel justified and solid in your decision. It's easier to move on when you have a reason to be angry. You feel like you gave it your best shot and even though you loved him you can move on.

 

C) You stay with him. Things are still a roller coaster at times. You are terrified of losing him and pushed to the brink of breaking up more times. But each time, you slowly gain more trust in yourself and the relationship. Eventually one day you realize you've been in the relationship __ months/years and it looks like it's gonna make it. At the end you are still in the relationship and you've both grown a great deal.

 

Scenario A seems like a waste (of time and money). Scenario B sucks but you'd deal. I'm actually banking on scenario "C."

[vsmini]

"if it's too easy, then it won't last." You are loopy, so answers my previous ? in last post. You both obviously live for drama. In saying that, all your psychobabble is not 'easy,' for sure, he is getting off on your drama...that's all. A great relationship should be easy energy spent having fun ease..plus you are crazy as u self described...you are not even acting yourself around this guy...u said yourself u invented a multiple personality for yourself because your true self is boring...very odd and weird.

If you had sense, that text is negative, not positive...he is going to come across a girl who is naturally magnetic...not a fake and "good bye Dolly." He is using u for sex.

 

Yes - I really think that "if it's too easy, then it won't last" line is used by people who are in really crappy relationships to justify staying in them. It won't always be easy - even in healthy relationships but it's not supposed to be this difficult so soon. Kind of like "Anything you have to fight for must be worth it." Not really.

 

I've seen guys pull this line on my friends - it's a way of manipulating their ladies into thinking that the drama is actually a GOOD thing. Is that's what is going on here? I can't say for sure but don't think that comment of his really counts for much.