Will He Ever Decide?

[heartinlove]

HI Everyone,

 

I am new here. I have read a bunch of these posts and there are a lot of smart comments from all of you that are also going through or gone through some version of this, so I thought I would post to get some feedback.

 

Reading through the stories, I am surprised how similar a lot of them are.

 

I, like many here, never in a million years thought I would find myself in this boat but here I am. I have been in an affair with a MM for a year now. A few months ago, he told his wife. He and I had been friends for about 6 years. We used to live near each other. I have had feelings for him for the last 5 years and never said a word. I have met his wife. I hadn't seen her in years, but it was a bridge I never thought I would cross, nor thought he would either. I never wanted to hurt her and have thought of her often.

 

We've always had an incredible connection. A year ago, he broke the ice and addressed it, and from that point I knew he was struggling with all the same feelings that I had been. Once, we both knew we each had the same feelings, it became impossible to contain.

 

We both are very similar, and are normally very honest, forthright, empathetic people. We are both known for being giving and caring and sensitive to others. The first time we were together we both vowed afterwards we would not go there again. Im sure many of you can relate. We continued to struggle, to say we would not have an affair, yet the love was/is so strong that we kept coming back to each other. He always initiated it, but I was there when he did.

 

What followed is what many of you have experienced. We fell in love. He tells me all the time he is in love with me. We planned a life together. He even spoke with my family members, saying he couldn't wait to meet them, to be part of my family. We spoke on the phone for hours every day, saw each other often. I saw myself being with him the rest of my life. We connect on every level. There is no question that if he were not married, we would be together. We both believe that. Because we have been friends so long, we really do know who the other one is, and thats part of what makes this so difficult. He is a good man and he has been very loving with me through out this entire experience. We both joke that this has been the healthiest relationship either of us have had in the most unhealthy situation.

 

So, a few months ago he told his wife. He decided he needed to tell the truth. He said that he saw us together, and most of him believed we would be, but a small percentage of him didn't know how he would react once he told and once he experienced her reaction. So D-Day came. It was beyond awful. He was in so much pain for the pain he caused. He said he needed to give his marriage a try and see if he could connect with her again. They are in marriage counseling. They have been married 19 years and have 3 kids. He never puts her down, or speaks badly about her, they are just disconnected and have been for awhile.

 

Well, even though, many times in these last three months, he has tried to stay away, not call, not see me, he keeps coming back. He tells me he's in love with me and wants to be with me, but he cant bear the pain this will cause her or his children. It became so painful, the back and forths, the I cant talk to you for awhile then calling 2 days later. I also, was doing some of the back and forth, saying dont call me until you have made a decision. He would call and eventually I picked up.

 

Finally, I decided I just wanted some peace and consistency. Consistency in an affair. I know thats kind of laughable. Its so painful to let go of each other. Its also so painful to continue to be intimate without a commitment and he now experiences a lot of guilt with that, so we have found a middle ground. Right now, we are speaking daily, but we agreed not to have sex unless he is free. Its like we are in a holding position. We don't have to go through the pain of losing each other now, and we are still connected, but I know, as does he, that one day this has to go one way or another. His wife doesn't know we still speak. She would be devastated if she knew.

 

So here is my question to you all. The part that just baffles me is how is it he can not make a decision. He says normally he is very decisive and has never been in a situation where he is straddling the fence. He says his heart is with me, but on the other side of the fence is his children who he cant bear to hurt and a wife he loves but is no longer in love with and he doesnt want to hurt her either. My big question is will he EVER decide?

 

What is maybe a bit different about our situation is that we don't have any drama between us. We communicate through all of this really clearly and have nothing but love for each other. He has been very honest about his process. I know we may never be together. I honestly just wish he knew what his truth was. I wish he knew what he will choose. How can he not know?

 

At this point, I think it would be kinder to me to let me go if he knew he could never be with me. But thats just it, he doesn't know 100% percent what he will choose.

 

In the meantime, they are in therapy, so he is seeing if he can save the marriage. He feels that if he doesn't try to save it, he will feel guilty. If he tries and they cant save it, then he can leave without guilt. Is that true, who knows. I know he is doing his best. This is such a difficult position for everyone, but I just don't know if he has the strength or ability to ever choose one path and stay on it.

 

Honestly, I dont know if I will ever be with anyone I love the way I do him. It scares me. But at this point, I want to face the truth whatever it is. If Im going to lose him ultimately, I wish he would just set me free. If we are ultimately going to be together, I wish he could know that 100%. Do I stay in contact with him or do I try to go No Contact again? He and I both have tried that so many times, and we've never made it more than a short time.

 

If he wasn't so clearly the man I wanted to spend my life with, it would be easy to walk away. Do I stay patient a while longer? I am actually in a good emotional space now. As long as Im not sleeping with him, I am functioning pretty well in life. I am by nature a happy, positive person, so that helps alot.

 

Any thoughts any of you have would be very welcome, but please be kind.

 

Also, any of the comments of well he's married, what are you thinking, please save them. Believe me, I've had many sleepless nights over the morality of this. I don't want to hurt his wife or his children, I want to do the right thing, but I am so in love with this man and cant turn off my heart, nor can he. If either of us could, we would have done it already.

 

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

[Tenacity]

HI Everyone,

 

I am new here. I have read a bunch of these posts and there are a lot of smart comments from all of you that are also going through or gone through some version of this, so I thought I would post to get some feedback.

 

Reading through the stories, I am surprised how similar a lot of them are.

 

I, like many here, never in a million years thought I would find myself in this boat but here I am. I have been in an affair with a MM for a year now. A few months ago, he told his wife. He and I had been friends for about 6 years. We used to live near each other. I have had feelings for him for the last 5 years and never said a word. I have met his wife. I hadn't seen her in years, but it was a bridge I never thought I would cross, nor thought he would either. I never wanted to hurt her and have thought of her often.

 

We've always had an incredible connection. A year ago, he broke the ice and addressed it, and from that point I knew he was struggling with all the same feelings that I had been. Once, we both knew we each had the same feelings, it became impossible to contain.

 

We both are very similar, and are normally very honest, forthright, empathetic people. We are both known for being giving and caring and sensitive to others. The first time we were together we both vowed afterwards we would not go there again. Im sure many of you can relate. We continued to struggle, to say we would not have an affair, yet the love was/is so strong that we kept coming back to each other. He always initiated it, but I was there when he did.

 

What followed is what many of you have experienced. We fell in love. He tells me all the time he is in love with me. We planned a life together. He even spoke with my family members, saying he couldn't wait to meet them, to be part of my family. We spoke on the phone for hours every day, saw each other often. I saw myself being with him the rest of my life. We connect on every level. There is no question that if he were not married, we would be together. We both believe that. Because we have been friends so long, we really do know who the other one is, and thats part of what makes this so difficult. He is a good man and he has been very loving with me through out this entire experience. We both joke that this has been the healthiest relationship either of us have had in the most unhealthy situation.

 

So, a few months ago he told his wife. He decided he needed to tell the truth. He said that he saw us together, and most of him believed we would be, but a small percentage of him didn't know how he would react once he told and once he experienced her reaction. So D-Day came. It was beyond awful. He was in so much pain for the pain he caused. He said he needed to give his marriage a try and see if he could connect with her again. They are in marriage counseling. They have been married 19 years and have 3 kids. He never puts her down, or speaks badly about her, they are just disconnected and have been for awhile.

 

Well, even though, many times in these last three months, he has tried to stay away, not call, not see me, he keeps coming back. He tells me he's in love with me and wants to be with me, but he cant bear the pain this will cause her or his children. It became so painful, the back and forths, the I cant talk to you for awhile then calling 2 days later. I also, was doing some of the back and forth, saying dont call me until you have made a decision. He would call and eventually I picked up.

 

Finally, I decided I just wanted some peace and consistency. Consistency in an affair. I know thats kind of laughable. Its so painful to let go of each other. Its also so painful to continue to be intimate without a commitment and he now experiences a lot of guilt with that, so we have found a middle ground. Right now, we are speaking daily, but we agreed not to have sex unless he is free. Its like we are in a holding position. We don't have to go through the pain of losing each other now, and we are still connected, but I know, as does he, that one day this has to go one way or another. His wife doesn't know we still speak. She would be devastated if she knew.

 

So here is my question to you all. The part that just baffles me is how is it he can not make a decision. He says normally he is very decisive and has never been in a situation where he is straddling the fence. He says his heart is with me, but on the other side of the fence is his children who he cant bear to hurt and a wife he loves but is no longer in love with and he doesnt want to hurt her either. My big question is will he EVER decide?

 

What is maybe a bit different about our situation is that we don't have any drama between us. We communicate through all of this really clearly and have nothing but love for each other. He has been very honest about his process. I know we may never be together. I honestly just wish he knew what his truth was. I wish he knew what he will choose. How can he not know?

 

At this point, I think it would be kinder to me to let me go if he knew he could never be with me. But thats just it, he doesn't know 100% percent what he will choose.

 

In the meantime, they are in therapy, so he is seeing if he can save the marriage. He feels that if he doesn't try to save it, he will feel guilty. If he tries and they cant save it, then he can leave without guilt. Is that true, who knows. I know he is doing his best. This is such a difficult position for everyone, but I just don't know if he has the strength or ability to ever choose one path and stay on it.

 

Honestly, I dont know if I will ever be with anyone I love the way I do him. It scares me. But at this point, I want to face the truth whatever it is. If Im going to lose him ultimately, I wish he would just set me free. If we are ultimately going to be together, I wish he could know that 100%. Do I stay in contact with him or do I try to go No Contact again? He and I both have tried that so many times, and we've never made it more than a short time.

 

If he wasn't so clearly the man I wanted to spend my life with, it would be easy to walk away. Do I stay patient a while longer? I am actually in a good emotional space now. As long as Im not sleeping with him, I am functioning pretty well in life. I am by nature a happy, positive person, so that helps alot.

 

Any thoughts any of you have would be very welcome, but please be kind.

 

Also, any of the comments of well he's married, what are you thinking, please save them. Believe me, I've had many sleepless nights over the morality of this. I don't want to hurt his wife or his children, I want to do the right thing, but I am so in love with this man and cant turn off my heart, nor can he. If either of us could, we would have done it already.

 

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

 

Please read the post I made today of my story. You are in the EXACT same position I was in two years ago, and you are setting yourself up for more years of heartbreak.

 

I had the same D-Day that you did, and what it means is that he is NOT LEAVING HIS WIFE. There is nothing else to say.

[whichwayisup]

His marriage doesn't have a chance in hell as long as you two are still talking daily. The affair is still on, minus the sex.

 

Did he tell his wife that it's you who he is in love with?

 

This situation is a sad mess and honestly, I can't see him choosing either way. Only change will happen when you end it and do the NC or his wife kicks him out and divorces him. Then you'll have him by default, not by his choice.

[TurningTables]

Im very sorry that you find yourself in this situation. And Im even more sorry to tell you that you already have your answer. If he is going to MC, it means he has chosen his M.

 

I wish I had better news for you. **hugs**

[heartinlove]

Thanks Sadintexas for your advice. It really, really, really hit home, and Im crying as Im writing this.

 

Youre right. I know youre right. A couple of weeks ago, I said all that. I told him to contact me if he decides to leave his marriage. I felt so good after I got off that call. I felt like I had taken my self back, that I was protecting myself. He called a bunch of times and eventually I picked up. I said the same things. That we needed space, but then we went right back to talking all the time. This has been so hard, and Im normally so strong.

 

Funny, I talked to him today, and he said he was amazed how Im always so positive. That most people would not be, and part of me thought afterwards, maybe Im being completely stupid to be so positive. Just thinking whatever will be will be. We have been the best of friends and it is so hard to lose him completely. Another part of me feels that if I was truly being there for myself, I would do what you suggested. I want to get back to that space and be strong enough to do it. Part of me just wants peace, and part of me thinks continuing to talk will make it easier, but Im probably just deluding myself. Its why I posted.

 

Youre right that one of us is going to come to that decision and I'd rather it be me. I am still strong, and i know the longer I stay in this, the more beaten down by it all I will be. I would rather end it now, where our connection is very loving, and Id rather be the one to end it.

 

And Tenacity, I did read your story and it similar and I dont want to go through what you have. I dont want to spend years doing this.

[MissBee]

Will he ever decide? I think he has...he has decided to work on his marriage.

 

I don't think it makes sense to work on a marriage that you're unhappy in, where you no longer are in love and know 100% that you want to be with someone else. As painful as it is to leave, I think that if you truly saw no hope, you would keep on keeping on out the door. I have made painful decisions before but on some level I was relieved because I could live my truth and stop hiding.

 

Working on your marriage and getting counseling means all is not lost and there is a chance that you and your spouse will reconcile. The question is: are you prepared to wait around and see if they work it out or not?

 

Everyone has intuition and gut feelings and many of our concerns come from our intuition alerting us of red and yellow flags.....we all know deep down whether or not our uneasiness is unfounded or a premonition of what is to come. Which is why many a times when something happens we can say "I knew it!", we just didn't listen to those uneasiness and those feelings warning us beforehand.

 

 

From what you've said he doesn't sound unhappy with his wife and out of love, so much as they are "disconnected" as you said. It's been 19 years, it happens and I can see it more being a case where he does want to save his marriage but didn't know how to initiate counseling BEFORE the affair, and now is taking the opportunity to do so. It may be that if all has been well and nothing was seriously wrong, through some counseling they can indeed reconnect.

 

I think some affairs can alert both parties that something is fundamentally wrong that cannot be fixed and some alert the parties involved that they do have something worth working on. The hard part is for the OW...who has to wait to be told by the MM which scenario it is.

 

The OW who it has worked out for seem to have a common thread of the man being decisive and making the decision sooner than later to end things then following through. I overall would feel like second best if my man decided to work things out with another woman as his FIRST CHOICE of action and then if it fails...he comes to me. That's really what is happening. He made the decision to work it out and only if it doesn't work, will he come back to you. To me, that is not him choosing you first because he can't live without you and see you as "the one". He has a choice to make...and kinda made it...now it is up to you to weigh everything and decide what is YOUR choice.

Edited June 27, 2011 by MissBee

[heartinlove]

Thanks Everyone for your comments. I am definitely taking them all in.

 

I hear what you are saying Missbee. That is what is so confusing. My intuition has always been that we will be together.

 

But youre right, he has chosen marriage counseling. Whats odd though is that I understand that decision. I have told him many times, if he can save his marriage, if he can be fulfilled in his marriage he should choose it, because of the years together and the kids. If it doesn't work, I wouldnt feel like I was second.

 

I do know how much he loves me. That part I feel secure in, but this is such a messed up situation.

 

So basically, what I hear you all saying is that because he chose marriage counseling that means he has made a decision. I guess, I haven't really seen that entirely, because he is still professing his love for me, so it feels like nothing has changed, that we are still in limbo. But, Im going to take that to heart. Maybe he has made a decision and I am too blinded by love to see it clearly.

[BB07]

Some awesome responses here and as others have said, he has already picked but he can't give it the effort the marriage or his wife deserve while still in an affair.

 

 

I'm sorry heart but you don't have any other choice but to end it because the longer things go on the more you will hurt and the messier it will become because he can't give you what you deserve nor will he be giving his wife/marriage what it deserves either.

 

One caution for you, please don't fool yourself into thinking that him straddling the fence is the most difficult thing for him because it's NOT. He has one foot on both sides and is not going to jump off on either side and that is because it's the EASIEST thing for him to do is to keep straddling it. Also for you to continue to be the OW ENABLES him to stay on that fence.

 

Please for your own sanity and peace of mind...........get out of a situation that won't bring you any happiness in it's present state.

[MissBee]

Thanks Everyone for your comments. I am definitely taking them all in.

I hear what you are saying Missbee. That is what is so confusing. My intuition has always been that we will be together.

But youre right, he has chosen marriage counseling. Whats odd though is that I understand that decision. I have told him many times, if he can save his marriage, if he can be fulfilled in his marriage he should choose it, because of the years together and the kids. If it doesn't work, I wouldnt feel like I was second.

 

I do know how much he loves me. That part I feel secure in, but this is such a messed up situation.

 

So basically, what I hear you all saying is that because he chose marriage counseling that means he has made a decision. I guess, I haven't really seen that entirely, because he is still professing his love for me, so it feels like nothing has changed, that we are still in limbo. But, Im going to take that to heart. Maybe he has made a decision and I am too blinded by love to see it clearly.

 

There's the matter of intuition versus wishful thinking too...sometimes intuition is clouded by wishful thinking.I am not claiming to know which case it is for you, we can only discuss the evidence of what is in fact happening with him right now.

 

Professing your love to someone is just words....going to counseling with one's wife is an action.

 

From my experience...people can say whatever they want til the cows come home and we're very good at taking "word checks" and happily running to the bank to cash them, even when based on the lack of positive actions, the check is in fact useless as there is no money in the "bank".

 

My ex taken guy did love me...however, that love was not enough and us being together just did not happen and to this day, years after we have been over, he still says he has feelings for me...but it doesn't mean much in terms of "us being together". I will always have love for him and vice versa probably, but I wasn't his choice and he is not my choice now and that's A-ok. There's having feelings for someone and valuing them and then there is loving and valuing them enough to choose them and to choose them first and to back up your declarations of love with consistent actions.

[heartinlove]

 

Did he tell his wife that it's you who he is in love with?

 

I don't think he told her he was in love with me. Funny, I never asked if he did. I know he downplayed the sex as well, that we were only together a few times, when in reality that wasn't true. He said that it didn't make sense to tell her the full truth as it would hurt her too much, and I guess I believed that perspective, that maybe its kinder not to tell the whole truth. I dont know though. I always believed in the truth before I found myself in this situation, and sometimes I dont know which way is up. Interestingly the therapist supports that perspective and encouraged him not to tell the full truth. He does tell the therapist the whole truth that he is in love with me.

 

Your responses are all really hitting home. Im going to work up the energy to follow through with it, but I have to admit at the moment it feels really daunting. I'll get there. This is so heartbreaking for me. I really believed we would spend our lives together. Thanks for taking the time to post replies.

[Loni]

Thanks Everyone for your comments. I am definitely taking them all in.

 

I hear what you are saying Missbee. That is what is so confusing. My intuition has always been that we will be together.

 

But youre right, he has chosen marriage counseling. Whats odd though is that I understand that decision. I have told him many times, if he can save his marriage, if he can be fulfilled in his marriage he should choose it, because of the years together and the kids. If it doesn't work, I wouldnt feel like I was second.

 

I do know how much he loves me. That part I feel secure in, but this is such a messed up situation.

 

So basically, what I hear you all saying is that because he chose marriage counseling that means he has made a decision. I guess, I haven't really seen that entirely, because he is still professing his love for me, so it feels like nothing has changed, that we are still in limbo. But, Im going to take that to heart. Maybe he has made a decision and I am too blinded by love to see it clearly.

 

 

It's not confusing at all. He knows he has you (in his mind at least) and that you will give him time to do his thing. Until you muster up the strength to tell him eff this he will continue to do so. You are frightened of losing him and I get that. What you do not realize is that you are losing you and it will be way more difficult to climb back up those stairs if you don't take you back.

 

I want you for a moment to imagine what is going on in their MC sessions. They are most likely laying your intimate time together on the table and dissecting it because I am sure that is what is forefront in his wife's head and what she wants to talk about. It's OK though because if MC does not work out he has you for a soft landing because you are so understanding. MM count on you being an accommodating OW.

 

Don't be afraid of being a bitch. If he can't handle being in the hot seat all things considering then really do you want him? He is the married one and he has to be the one who proves to you that he is worthy.

[BB07]

It's not confusing at all. He knows he has you (in his mind at least) and that you will give him time to do his thing. Until you muster up the strength to tell him eff this he will continue to do so. You are frightened of losing him and I get that. What you do not realize is that you are losing you and it will be way more difficult to climb back up those stairs if you don't take you back.

 

I want you for a moment to imagine what is going on in their MC sessions. They are most likely laying your intimate time together on the table and dissecting it because I am sure that is what is forefront in his wife's head and what she wants to talk about. It's OK though because if MC does not work out he has you for a soft landing because you are so understanding. MM count on you being an accommodating OW.

 

Don't be afraid of being a bitch. If he can't handle being in the hot seat all things considering then really do you want him? He is the married one and he has to be the one who proves to you that he is worthy.

 

 

True, especially the bolded. Get the book heart, "men love bitches" and hey if he doesn't love you at least he will learn to respect you in that you say what you mean and you do what you say. In other words don't be a doormat and allow him to treat you like he is and please........see it for what it really is.

 

Wish I had taken that advice to heart many years ago, but I have NOW.

[MissBee]

It's not confusing at all. He knows he has you (in his mind at least) and that you will give him time to do his thing. Until you muster up the strength to tell him eff this he will continue to do so. You are frightened of losing him and I get that. What you do not realize is that you are losing you and it will be way more difficult to climb back up those stairs if you don't take you back.

 

I want you for a moment to imagine what is going on in their MC sessions. They are most likely laying your intimate time together on the table and dissecting it because I am sure that is what is forefront in his wife's head and what she wants to talk about. It's OK though because if MC does not work out he has you for a soft landing because you are so understanding. MM count on you being an accommodating OW.

Don't be afraid of being a bitch. If he can't handle being in the hot seat all things considering then really do you want him? He is the married one and he has to be the one who proves to you that he is worthy.

 

 

Precisely!

 

The crown I have as my avatar is how I choose to live my life now...viewing myself as a Queen that deserves and gives the utmost.

 

I'm no one's safety blanket "incase" and I am not going to walk on egg shells like a servant hoping that if I say just the right thing, do just the right thing, and appear to have as least desires as possible and inconvenience them as least as possible that they will upgrade me. No thanks!

 

I'm a Queen...I deserve the best, I ask for what I want and need and speak my truth to someone who I am sizing up for a partner...if this is too much or I am going to lose them because I am not waiting around and am as compliant as possible...then they're probably not the best partner for me and can take their things and go.

 

It wasn't easy for me to adopt that attitude as I am a natural pleaser and like to be the good girl and give people chances....which usually lead to me sacrificing my wants, desires and own best interest for that of another. But not anymore...

[bentnotbroken]

He doesn't make a decision for the exact same reasons/excuses that you use. In the end it is all about what where you feel the right thing is. Since he feels that telling the truth isn't the right thing to do, he has made a decision, to continue to lie.

[heartinlove]

It's not confusing at all. He knows he has you (in his mind at least) and that you will give him time to do his thing. Until you muster up the strength to tell him eff this he will continue to do so. You are frightened of losing him and I get that. What you do not realize is that you are losing you and it will be way more difficult to climb back up those stairs if you don't take you back.

 

I want you for a moment to imagine what is going on in their MC sessions. They are most likely laying your intimate time together on the table and dissecting it because I am sure that is what is forefront in his wife's head and what she wants to talk about. It's OK though because if MC does not work out he has you for a soft landing because you are so understanding. MM count on you being an accommodating OW.

 

Don't be afraid of being a bitch. If he can't handle being in the hot seat all things considering then really do you want him? He is the married one and he has to be the one who proves to you that he is worthy.

 

Wow. That really hit home. I am losing me, and youre right the more I lose me the harder it is to climb the stairs. In the beginning I was so much stronger and lately I am settling for so little. Im happy to have peace lately no matter what the cost, where as in the beginning stages I was really clear that a decision had to be made and if he didn't choose us then we couldn't continue to be friends. Also I am so not the bitch and am by nature understanding. I can see how that is not serving me, and I am so scared out of losing him that lately I have been willing to lose me. This is all painful to hear but I know its true and im grateful for the feedback.

[heartinlove]

True, especially the bolded. Get the book heart, "men love bitches" and hey if he doesn't love you at least he will learn to respect you in that you say what you mean and you do what you say. In other words don't be a doormat and allow him to treat you like he is and please........see it for what it really is.

 

Wish I had taken that advice to heart many years ago, but I have NOW.

 

I will. Again, really good advice. Thanks

[chalkfarm]

So D-Day came. It was beyond awful. He was in so much pain for the pain he caused. He said he needed to give his marriage a try and see if he could connect with her again. They are in marriage counseling. They have been married 19 years and have 3 kids. He never puts her down, or speaks badly about her, they are just disconnected and have been for awhile.

 

Well, even though, many times in these last three months, he has tried to stay away, not call, not see me, he keeps coming back. He tells me he's in love with me and wants to be with me, but he cant bear the pain this will cause her or his children. It became so painful, the back and forths, the I cant talk to you for awhile then calling 2 days later. I also, was doing some of the back and forth, saying dont call me until you have made a decision. He would call and eventually I picked up.

 

He feels such guilt for the pain he causes his W. Hmmm... what about you? Does he know how much he hurts YOU? Or do your level headed conversations not include how much he hurts YOU? Are you afraid to tell him? I mean REALLY TELL HIM. If you tell him that this is hurting you, are you afraid that he will no longer consider you an option and move on to find another less confrontational woman?

 

I only point this out and ask because in hind sight, I wish I had let my XMM know the extent of his selfishness and the white hot pain he caused me. I wish I had been more demanding and to hell with the consequences. Likely, my XMM would have reconciled anyway (they always do!) but at least I would have put my 2 cents worth in. It would have been brave! It would have forced him to face the entire situation with no conflict avoidance.

 

He needs to be a man and leave you alone.

[FightClub]

Heartinlove,

 

I can understand how you feel about letting go, deep down inside you want to believe that all the declarations of love will result in a stable future for both of you, together.

 

Unfortunately as others have said, this just isn't the case at this point in time. It hurts to know that sometimes love just isn't enough, people will selfishly make choices without thinking them through because they are afraid to make a real stance sometimes.

 

So, what I would say is, be the one to show how much you love him, take a stand, don't be the one to say, 'I'll wait until he chooses me.'

 

Say your goodbyes within yourself, lock away all the memories you shared with him and keep all the positive feelings from this and walk away.

 

You will not only appear stronger but by extension you are the stronger Woman who made a choice to not stay on the sidelines anymore.

 

Be the change you want to see in this world and I believe you will find a better future beyond the past you shared with your MM, a past that only exists within your memory.

 

Mourn the loss of the fantasy, what you felt and know that good things can happen in the future and who knows what may be in store for you, if it's meant to be at any time, he will be the one to find you and show you with actions not words how much he wants you in his life.

 

None of that possible future can happen if you stay in his life right now.

 

 

As a famous green, Jedi once said, 'Do or do not, there is no try'

 

-FC

Edited June 27, 2011 by FightClub

[Breezy Trousers]

Welcome!!

 

Everyone has given you great responses. I'm not discounting your experience but am playing devil's advocate here. OW are usually incredibly naive & trusting. That's why you will find lots of "naysayers" here. We remember when we were naive & trusting and want to prevent others from walking the same road. Some affairs end in marriage (Loni's did), but the majority don't.

 

It could be love you're experiencing, Heart. It could also be addiction. Love fog / affairs are highly addictive processes. Like most addictions, you don't realize how an affair distorts perception until you go cold turkey. That's why no contact (NC) is so necessary. It's not unusual for people who have been in 5 or 6 months of NC to be shocked at how fuzzy their thinking was during the affair.

 

Everyone believes their love affair is different from the rest and that their "intense connection" is unique. Unfortunately, there are lots of smart, successful former affair partners here who once believed the very same thing. Intensity isn't the same thing as love.

 

MM who want to keep the affair and the marriage going at the same time are the norm. They are called "cake eaters" here. MM ending things, only to return, flattering OW by professing undying love for her while "working" on leaving their marriage or "working" on staying in their marriage? That's so typical here that it would be funny if it wasn't so horribly painful.

 

Here are some things to consider:

 

MM could have invented the entire D-Day story to control your relationship.

 

Until you have confirmed this information with someone else or spoke directly with BS, you really can't know there was a D-Day or that he's working on his marriage at all .... Some MM use infidelity to manage attachment disorder. They have a fear of intimacy, so ping ponging between the spouse and OW helps them have excitement & new attention while avoiding true intimacy. People with attachment disorder are famous for bonding intensely & quickly with lovers (-- typically, OW say these MM are the soul mates they were always searching for). When things get too close/committed, these guys get uncomfortable and pull away to control the intensity. Once they feel comfortable, they return to OW again. OW are flattered by the show of love and invite them back in. The roller coaster ride continues again & again, and the intensity of this insecure bonding is similar to traumatic bonding, causing OW to become more bonded to MM, not less. Much like abuse situations.

 

That's why it's more difficult to get out of an affair the longer it runs. There's a honeymoon stage with all relationships. In abusive relationships, women will stay plugged in even as they grow more miserable, hoping to regain the early intense "honeymoon" days. MM gives them intermittent rewards so, like abused wives, they hold on ... and on ... and on ...They want the fairytale and will discount any reality intruding on the fairy tale.

 

It's naive for OW to think highly of a MM who does not speak poorly of BS. Nearly everyone knows it's bad form to speak poorly of ex-lovers. You're seen as a red flag to be avoided. MM need OW to perceive them as "good" because if OW trust them, they are more likely to make themselves sexually available to MM. In this post you are anxious to present yourself and MM as "good" people, so "goodness" is clearly important to you, which I'm sure your MM knows. Obviously, it wouldn't be in his interest to badmouth his wife or marriage to you. He wouldn't look like such a wonderful man if he did that, and MM know that OW want to believe their men are wonderful and special.

 

Are you a highly empathetic, "sweet" person? Women who are sweet are often naive and are often deliberately targeted for affairs. Trusting, loyal women tend to make excuses for MM's actions --- for example, telling themselves that MM's routine lying and manipulation is the result of feeling sad and disconnected in his marriage. They will work that much harder to be better at "connecting" with MM, which suits MM just fine! Such women usually believe they are MM's first and only affair.

 

Will being married to this man elevate your life status/financial security/ identity in some way? Harsh question, but it needs to be asked. We are all weaned on fairy tales. OW tend to be easily flattered & manipulated by MM with a higher social status. Few OW would be as inclined to feel such unconditional love/intrude upon someone else's marriage if the MM was working a minimum wage job. If this is in the back of your mind, it's likely he's figured this out and could be leveraging it to his advantage to keep you plugged in.

 

Look at the advertisements in Craigslist and AshleyMadison.com to see how married men seeking affairs operate. I did a couple years ago, when I was in love fog with a MM who was making his interest known at work. I had told my girlfriend of a weird, unsettling encounter I had with MM's friend at the workplace -- the guy walked past me slowly, eyed me up and down, got a beverage, turned around and walked very slowly past me again, scrutinizing me. He went back into conference room with MM, who was sitting alone. My co-worker commented on how strange the guy acted, and I agreed. That evening, as I recounted this to my girlfriend, her antenna went up. My friend is 100x more worldly & sexually "experienced" than me. She openly wondered if MM and this guy were in cahoots, trolling for women together like middle-aged frat brothers. I suspected this was the case but didn't want to believe it. I insisted MM would never do such a thing -- he was a good church man, a family man and respected professional who did not have a reputation for affairs. (I was in love fog. Now I know better.) My friend laughed, saying I was naive. She suggested we go on Craigslist and scroll through "MM seeking MW" ads together while on the phone, so I could at least see how these guys operate. So we did. To my shock, I found an ad containing a picture of a man nearly identical to MM's friend I saw in the office that day. I also read an interesting ad by a "nice" professional MM seeking a 3-year relationship with a MW. (Strange that the ad had a time-limit, but it did.) The MM's age was just a year away from my MM's age. In the ad, he said his wife was a good woman but, sadly, his marriage had grown distant in recent years. He didn't want a relationship with MW to be about sex at first ... He wanted to talk to MW at length to see if there was a connection first, then take things slowly from there. His ad ended with: "Let the passion begin!" .... I didn't reply, of course , but reading those ads that evening opened my eyes to how practiced men seeking affairs operate. They aren't stupid -- well, except for the idiot who put a full-body picture of himself in the ad.

 

 

 

[heartinlove]

Precisely!

 

The crown I have as my avatar is how I choose to live my life now...viewing myself as a Queen that deserves and gives the utmost.

 

I'm no one's safety blanket "incase" and I am not going to walk on egg shells like a servant hoping that if I say just the right thing, do just the right thing, and appear to have as least desires as possible and inconvenience them as least as possible that they will upgrade me. No thanks!

 

I'm a Queen...I deserve the best, I ask for what I want and need and speak my truth to someone who I am sizing up for a partner...if this is too much or I am going to lose them because I am not waiting around and am as compliant as possible...then they're probably not the best partner for me and can take their things and go.

 

It wasn't easy for me to adopt that attitude as I am a natural pleaser and like to be the good girl and give people chances....which usually lead to me sacrificing my wants, desires and own best interest for that of another. But not anymore...

 

Again this really hits home. I love the belief in being a queen. All these posts are really amazing. I feel like I've been pretty blind because I do understand his position, but I do feel like Im sacrificing my well being to give him time to figure it out.

 

Also, when he started counseling it was just individual counseling. It has become joint only recently. What does it really matter though. As an earlier post said hes going to counseling with his wife now. That is an action. Hes seeing if they can regain what they had. That is also an action. What does it really matter what he feels for me. Hes not choosing that path now. Whatever he said in the past, the current reality is hes choosing his wife, the family he has. I guess Im repeating all this so that I get it.

 

I get so blinded when I speak with him and all the words of love, of I want to be with you but am not yet at the place I feel its the right thing to do. And then part of me understands because I dont want to hurt his wife or children either.

 

Im going to do my best to muster the strength to tell him Im walking away, and if its really his truth to be with me, he'll find a way. If my intuition that we will be together is true then he will find a way that doesn't include me being tortured talking to him all the time when he is not choosing to be with me, and keeping my life on hold, waiting, hoping. In truth, no matter how much bs I feed myself that I am good, my life is on hold with the hope that he and I will be together.

[heartinlove]

He feels such guilt for the pain he causes his W. Hmmm... what about you? Does he know how much he hurts YOU? Or do your level headed conversations not include how much he hurts YOU? Are you afraid to tell him? I mean REALLY TELL HIM. If you tell him that this is hurting you, are you afraid that he will no longer consider you an option and move on to find another less confrontational woman?

 

I only point this out and ask because in hind sight, I wish I had let my XMM know the extent of his selfishness and the white hot pain he caused me. I wish I had been more demanding and to hell with the consequences. Likely, my XMM would have reconciled anyway (they always do!) but at least I would have put my 2 cents worth in. It would have been brave! It would have forced him to face the entire situation with no conflict avoidance.

 

He needs to be a man and leave you alone.

 

Yes, I tell him how much this is hurting me and he often acknowledges it as well. I am very honest with him about my experience and how difficult this is for me. I dont hold back what I feel, I just really do understand where he's coming from and that understanding sometimes makes it difficult to make choices that are in my best interest.

[heartinlove]

Welcome!!

 

 

Here are some things to consider:

 

MM could have invented the entire D-Day story to control your relationship.

 

I spoke with her. I know it happened.

 

Until you have confirmed this information with someone else or spoke directly with BS, you really can't know there was a D-Day or that he's working on his marriage at all ....

 

 

Will being married to this man elevate your life status/financial security/ identity in some way? Harsh question, but it needs to be asked.

 

[/i]

 

I am in a better financial position than he is.

[Breezy Trousers]

The only way these things work is to walk away, no contact, and let him come to you. If BS kicks him out -- hopefully she'll let you know that, too -- try not to be the default choice. Keep some distance before dating again so he can get grounded.

 

Others have been through this - GotIt, Silly, OWoman, Loni. If it works, they are great supports. If it doesn't, as you can see here, you'll find lots of support for recovery, too.

[heartinlove]

Heartinlove,

 

I can understand how you feel about letting go, deep down inside you want to believe that all the declarations of love will result in a stable future for both of you, together.

 

Unfortunately as others have said, this just isn't the case at this point in time. It hurts to know that sometimes love just isn't enough, people will selfishly make choices without thinking them through because they are afraid to make a real stance sometimes.

 

So, what I would say is, be the one to show how much you love him, take a stand, don't be the one to say, 'I'll wait until he chooses me.'

 

Say your goodbyes within yourself, lock away all the memories you shared with him and keep all the positive feelings from this and walk away.

 

You will not only appear stronger but by extension you are the stronger Woman who made a choice to not stay on the sidelines anymore.

 

Be the change you want to see in this world and I believe you will find a better future beyond the past you shared with your MM, a past that only exists within your memory.

 

Mourn the loss of the fantasy, what you felt and know that good things can happen in the future and who knows what may be in store for you, if it's meant to be at any time, he will be the one to find you and show you with actions not words how much he wants you in his life.

 

None of that possible future can happen if you stay in his life right now.

 

 

As a famous green, Jedi once said, 'Do or do not, there is no try'

 

-FC

 

Thank you so much for this post. I know you're speaking the truth. Those last few sentences really resonated with me. I am going to sit with your words and the words from all these amazing woman and find the courage in myself to do this. I am so grateful I posted my story. Posting online is foreign to me as well as baring my soul in this way, but I am so grateful to hear from all of you that have been through this. I will do my best to believe that good things will happen, that I can let go, that I will not die from the sadness of him not being in my life. It has been so hard to truly let go, but all of you know that as you've been there or are there.

[FightClub]

Letting go and walking away from my xMW when she made a decision was one of hardest thing I've ever had to do in my life. Comparable only to losing a parent at a young age, I don't think I've ever mourned something with so much raw emotion, intuition or spirituality.

 

But after eight months, I am in a better place now, I feel whole again.

 

I still think about xMW every so often when I'm alone but those feelings are okay to have, we're only human and when we bond with someone losing them for any reason is a loss but we learn in time that the loss becomes a winning situation for everyone but most importantly; You choose to make the life you want for yourself because you made a choice.

 

And in some ways, we've already made the choice, we just have to understand why we made it within ourselves. Take time to work on yourself, do things you've never done before, talk with new people and you'll be amazed to find how much connecting with others helps to occupy your mind as well as embark on new ideas to further your future.

 

Goodluck kiddo, I'm sure you'll do what needs to be done when your ready!

 

-FC

Edited June 27, 2011 by FightClub