If your 'looks' were improved a few points, would you want to upgrade your SO??

[Eternal Sunshine]

No. Even if I became a supermodel I wouldn't want anyone else.

[AlexDP]

I would not, but I think a lot of people do this. Usually if they are overweight or get some kind of plastic surgery (boob job). Once they are 'improved' they suddenly have more options and the poor person they settled for before isn't good enough anymore. It's sad and unfair to their partner.

 

Sad and unfair? If you get surgery, maybe. If you work your ass off in the gym to look better, no way. If you work hard, so should your SO.

[LittleTiger]

anywayyy lol...again wasn't why i made the thread, and probably doens't relate really. but i guess for a long time, and still do a little, feel like she thinks he's a better man than i. b/c i undoubtedly treated her better.

 

He's not better than you Jono, she just never got over him - good lesson learned - don't get involved with someone who still has romantic feelings for their ex - unless the ex is dead, there's always a chance they'll go back.

 

The 'peak' in your relationship, that you mention, was imaginary - she wasn't honest from the start so the whole relationship as you perceived it was imaginary. I'm sorry some people have to be so dishonest.

 

why i was curious about this subject is i'm currently dating (early stages, few weeks) a girl that, yes i'm very attracted to and she turns me on quite a lot, but at the same time i kind of know i can and have done better (when i say better i mean strictly looks, and career prospects, ie. not personality so much). but she is such a sweet person, and i love how caring she is (and lots of other things about her). but i really don't want to hurt her (she's falling for me hard) and i'm afraid once things start picking up for me (i'm unemployed, broke, just bad frame of mind) and my confidence comes back i'm going to be wanting someone more attractive (ie. better career prospects, more intellectual, more attractive, etc). but then again, like i said she turns me on plenty, and she's the sweetest girl i've ever met, and i DO value that a LOT, so i may not want anyone "hotter". i'm just a little fearful of it.

 

i guess i'll just sort of see how things go, b/c i already feel like my feelings for her have developed more and more. i just know what it's like to have someone you love (and once loved you) leave you for someone else, and i'd never want to do that to anyone! but probs not something i can really control much in the short term.

 

Right, got you now - I missed this before.

 

This whole post is full of red flags but the bolded bit has bells, whistles and horns attached and it's dancing a very merry jig all by itself to try and get your attention.

 

If you know you can and have done better, then you are with the wrong girl. You should end this relationship now before she ends up getting hurt the way your ex hurt you.

 

Funnily enough, when we're with the right person, we do tend to measure ourselves against them - but not in the way you're suggesting. In most cases when we find Mr or Ms Right (I agree there could be more one than one of those in the world) we can't believe how lucky we are to have 'caught' someone so amazing - and they should feel the same way about us - if they don't then we're not right for them.

 

If that's not how you feel about your current partner from very early on (even on the first date you should be thinking 'wow, there's something really special about this one'), then you should move on and let them find someone who does feel that way about them.

 

So many people waste time with someone they think is 'ok' or 'a reasonably good fit'. There are millions of people on this planet. If the one you're with doesn't 'rock your world', get out there and find someone who does.

 

If you don't then, yes, I agree - in a few years you'll be looking for an 'upgrade' - regardless of whether your own looks or status have improved.

[PelicanPete]

Good question! I'm going to be completely honest.

 

With my past relationship, I knew I was overall much more "attractive" then my ex. We would both agree that I was a couple points higher then her on the physical level, but what made the glaring difference was that I had a stronger sense of self compared to her.

 

My ex and I both had the opposite sex flirt with us and even ask us out while we were in a relationship together. Not to brag but the difference was literally 5:1. I admit there were times where I felt I could do better then my ex, and that I was tempted to start a relationship with someone else who showed interest, but I felt save and loved by my ex and believed she was the one for me and that she would never do that to me. I never led any girl on and always politely turned them down.

 

Of course my ex would always praise me about how great of a person I was, that we'd be together forever, how lucky she was to have me, blablabla. Basically the same as every other post in this thread. However whenever another guy showed interest, it instantly became a competition. I was apparently the best bf in existence, yet it was always a battle royale. One example was she would talk with one guy on the phone for hours in the middle of the night, calling him just a "friend". She would lead on guys that were obviously flirting with her and play dumb to it all until I stepped in. The one time I decided not to pull aside a "friend" of hers and tell him to back off, she cheated and left me for. It's scary to think that if I did intervene, I would still be with that time bomb doing the same dance.

 

Anyway moral of the story: If there's no competition of course your companion is going to look like a dream come true. If you're both completely secure, committed, and happy with yourselves and the relationship, nothing will come between you and congratulations on the long and happy years ahead of you. If there is insecurity or doubt in your relationship, the other person has a distinct advantage because they instantly become an emulated god/goddess. No other person can cure someone elses emotional problems, but the other person will automatically become an avatar of everything that other person wants/needs/desires.

[LittleTiger]

Anyway moral of the story: If there's no competition of course your companion is going to look like a dream come true. If you're both completely secure, committed, and happy with yourselves and the relationship, nothing will come between you and congratulations on the long and happy years ahead of you. If there is insecurity or doubt in your relationship, the other person has a distinct advantage because they instantly become an emulated god/goddess. No other person can cure someone elses emotional problems, but the other person will automatically become an avatar of everything that other person wants/needs/desires.

 

This is what everyone should be aiming for - if you don't have that in the beginning then the relationship is doomed to fail.

 

It's another really good reason why we should all make sure we are happy with who we are - physically, mentally and emotionally - before attempting to share our lives with someone else.

 

Being compatible isn't about being on the same 'scale', it's about being a good match all round. Nobody is perfect, so where one person may be better looking, the other may be funnier, where one is more intelligent, the other may be more practical etc. Having one quality rather than another doesn't make us better or worse than anyone else.

 

There is and always will be competition for mates - it's human instinct - but if you can find the right match, you will stop looking.

[rafallus]

no ones saying subpar though. you're taking the extreme. but don't tell me everyone in the world thinks their SO is the most attractive person on the planet (looks wise). and do not tell me ppl don't even try to get to know some girls/guys b/c they don't realistically think they have a chance in the looks department. i would never approach a girl that looks like angelina jolie (using the most generic example here for arguments sake) b/c i do not consider myself a 10 on the looks scale, OR the career scale, etc. and i would be very full of myself if i were to believe I am the most caring, considerate, etc etc guy in the world and no one is as loving as me. hence i wouldn't try to go after her, even though i realize she is hotter than any girl i will date (i say hotter b/c i do not know her obviously, she may also have a dynamite personality but i'll never find out). do you understand that part??

 

can we be mature here for a second? tell me those 2 statements i made are incorrect..

Your statements are not incorrect, they are irrelevant.

 

I know I'm not the most physically attractive man alive (sometimes I think I am, while on ego rush, but that's another matter), and the girls I('m gonna) hook up with aren't voted the most physically attractive in the world.

 

This begs the question:

 

Am you gonna lose hard on for some girl you just made out with, because some people think Angelina Jolie is hotter? I think not.

 

Does 1-10 scale even matter, when not every single person around the world gives exact same note (some would say I'm 6-7, some that I'm 8-9, some that I'm a 10, some that I'm 1. And, making things crazier, it depends on what pic I will choose to show! If such scale mattered anything, sure it would have some invariability in regards to such petty factors, riiiight?)? 1-10 is such a joke, either you are turned on by a girl or not - it's 0-1 switch.

 

Do your self-limiting beliefs even matter objectively? They will prevent you from approaching her, sure, but they will not prevent some douchebag from approaching her and taking her away from you. Then you're left scratching your head and asking: "He's such a douche, what does he have that I don't?"

 

Ergo: you're getting caught up in petty stuff.

 

PS. concept of "subpar" is a direct consequence of introducing concept of "upgrading".

Edited June 27, 2011 by rafallus

[Jono85]

He's not better than you Jono, she just never got over him - good lesson learned - don't get involved with someone who still has romantic feelings for their ex - unless the ex is dead, there's always a chance they'll go back.

 

The 'peak' in your relationship, that you mention, was imaginary - she wasn't honest from the start so the whole relationship as you perceived it was imaginary. I'm sorry some people have to be so dishonest.

 

i appreciate that LT and i know you're probably right. it's just hard at times to wrap my head around it b/c at the beginning she was the one pushing for me to commit, and trying to tell me how ready she was (this wasn't immediately after her breakup, but 4-5 months or so) and blah blah blah. and for a long while they didn't even talk and i was her world. but the second he comes back begging she's already entertaining the idea and lying to me etc and is confused, when she always said she deserved better and she's a newm smarter woman blah blah blah. so from my standpoint i thought i was that better, and was that opportunity to move on, but she didn't take it.

 

anyway i appreciate the words, and like i said, you're most likely right; i guess sometimes my insecurities don't want me to believe the more logical reasons. anyway i cut her out of my life and have never looked back (this was in January) and won't entertain the idea even if she's begging at my feet (the many lies are more than enough to realize the kind of person she is).

 

Right, got you now - I missed this before.

 

This whole post is full of red flags but the bolded bit has bells, whistles and horns attached and it's dancing a very merry jig all by itself to try and get your attention.

 

If you know you can and have done better, then you are with the wrong girl. You should end this relationship now before she ends up getting hurt the way your ex hurt you.

 

Funnily enough, when we're with the right person, we do tend to measure ourselves against them - but not in the way you're suggesting. In most cases when we find Mr or Ms Right (I agree there could be more one than one of those in the world) we can't believe how lucky we are to have 'caught' someone so amazing - and they should feel the same way about us - if they don't then we're not right for them.

 

If that's not how you feel about your current partner from very early on (even on the first date you should be thinking 'wow, there's something really special about this one'), then you should move on and let them find someone who does feel that way about them.

 

So many people waste time with someone they think is 'ok' or 'a reasonably good fit'. There are millions of people on this planet. If the one you're with doesn't 'rock your world', get out there and find someone who does.

 

If you don't then, yes, I agree - in a few years you'll be looking for an 'upgrade' - regardless of whether your own looks or status have improved.

 

I have a few issues with this.

 

For one, keep in mind what I said in brackets after that comment you bolded. I only meant strictly looks, and career prospects. I'm being honest. she's not as pretty as my previous ex. she's not going to make nearly as much money. that's all i meant. but I also said i think she's the absolute sweetest girl i've ever met. I've never seen someone, male or female (other than mothers lol) do the things she does for other people on a very regular basis. i think she's a wonderful person. and i never said she doesn't turn me on or anything, she does, quite a lot. she's beautiful. but maybe i'm messed up in the head, but i can still compare beauty to beauty and think one is more physically stunning etc.

 

Look at what you said in your last post here (replying to someone else). I think it could apply here no? She's not the most physically stunning girl I can get, or the smartest in terms of career potential, but she may more than make up for it with her personality. It's still VERY early in the dating and I don't think i should abandon ship just b/c i don't think she's the prettiest girl i've dated. she could still be the best person i've ever dated (by best person i mean everything overall together...looks, career, personality, etc).

 

I also don't believe that when you meet Ms/Mr Right you necessarily feel, right off the bat, that you can't believe you've met such a catch like that. Some ppl probably don't feel that until later on. It takes time for some to fall in love.

 

Having said all of this, you COULD be right. but i don't really know. and i cannot just end what we've started yet b/c I DO like her personality so much. I'm just being honest. I do have fears b/c she isn't the typical mold of what I've looked for in the past 'looks-wise' but i may soon find out that i value personality over 'looks' a whole lot more than i thought i did. i'm 25 and haven't been in a very serious relationship yet so i'm still learning things about myself and what I value/want. If that makes sense.

Edited June 27, 2011 by Jono85

[lovelydemon]

When my marriage ended it was the emotional connection that was lost first. My then husband decided that since we are married and own a house together I'm not going anywhere and have no choice but put up with his behavior. Since he was practically abstinent from the relationship (playing video games the minute he entered the house till 5 am) I started spending a lot of time at the gym ( just for the sake of doing something) My looks improved (not drastically but I got more toned) and I became exposed to a lot more attention from the guys. Soon I had an emotional affair going on. Then came divorce. Did it have to do anything with me looking better? No. It had everything to do with lack of attention from my ex-husband.

 

I think a lot of marriages fall apart not because attraction gets lost but because one of the partners takes relationship for granted and lets him/herself go, including appearance.

[Jono85]

Your statements are not incorrect, they are irrelevant.

 

I know I'm not the most physically attractive man alive (sometimes I think I am, while on ego rush, but that's another matter), and the girls I('m gonna) hook up with aren't voted the most physically attractive in the world.

 

This begs the question:

 

Am you gonna lose hard on for some girl you just made out with, because some people think Angelina Jolie is hotter? I think not.

 

Does 1-10 scale even matter, when not every single person around the world gives exact same note (some would say I'm 6-7, some that I'm 8-9, some that I'm a 10, some that I'm 1. And, making things crazier, it depends on what pic I will choose to show! If such scale mattered anything, sure it would have some invariability in regards to such petty factors, riiiight?)? 1-10 is such a joke, either you are turned on by a girl or not - it's 0-1 switch.

 

Do your self-limiting beliefs even matter objectively? They will prevent you from approaching her, sure, but they will not prevent some douchebag from approaching her and taking her away from you. Then you're left scratching your head and asking: "He's such a douche, what does he have that I don't?"

 

Ergo: you're getting caught up in petty stuff.

 

PS. concept of "subpar" is a direct consequence of introducing concept of "upgrading".

 

definition of subpar: below an average, usual, or normal level, quality, or the like; below par: This month his performance has been subpar.

 

i know i'm nitpicking lol but you're kind of wrong. you can upgrade a BMW to a Rolls Royce. a BMW is not subpar. it's above par. it can still be upgraded. i would never suggest "settling" for someone you think doesn't measure up. but the REALITY of the situation is this...in every sucessfull marriage, that person has settled like you say at one point in their past for someone who wasn't as good as their current spouse. they may not have felt they were settling at the time, but obviously years later they are happier with someone else, so i guess you could make that argument?

 

but yes i know it's petty stuff. and truthfully i'm not 100% sure where i stand on it all. i'm probably shallow, but i know i won't even give certain girls a chance that, yes i could get turned on by them, but still don't find them all that attractive (not saying the girl i'm dating falls under this category at all). and i'm sure other girls do that to me as well. it's probably sad, and maybe that will change with me, but thats how it is unfortunately.

 

but i agree with mostly everything you've said.

[Jono85]

When my marriage ended it was the emotional connection that was lost first. My then husband decided that since we are married and own a house together I'm not going anywhere and have no choice but put up with his behavior. Since he was practically abstinent from the relationship (playing video games the minute he entered the house till 5 am) I started spending a lot of time at the gym ( just for the sake of doing something) My looks improved (not drastically but I got more toned) and I became exposed to a lot more attention from the guys. Soon I had an emotional affair going on. Then came divorce. Did it have to do anything with me looking better? No. It had everything to do with lack of attention from my ex-husband.

 

I think a lot of marriages fall apart not because attraction gets lost but because one of the partners takes relationship for granted and lets him/herself go, including appearance.

 

that seems so crazy that you not only stayed the same as you did when you were married, but actually got in better shape, became more physically attracted, and he didn't give you attention? weird.

[Ross MwcFan]

I wouldn't dump anyone just based on the fact that I could get someone better looking. What a shallow thing to do.

[Dusk1983]

i hate it when ppl (generally women statistically)… make wide generalizations about men *

 

A statement that reaches a whole new level of stupid mate, and spuriously and disingenuously adding ‘statistically’ only makes it more so!

 

Its probably true men are probably more likely to trade up, given the opportunity, because all men have entered into a relationship on fairly flimsy grounds; often as flimsy as ‘good body’, but that’s not to say we can’t fall in love with someone from there on.

 

Conversely, women typically have more opportunities and thus a whole bunch of detailed criteria. In other words, a guy that meets her criteria is already a way towards being her ‘trade up’.

 

In general, though, I think the reality would be very different were we actually to wake up significantly more attractive. Even the strongest of bonds and connections would come under a steady process of attrition from all those daily admiring glances, and the embarrassed looks of increasingly hot members of the opposite sex, and that would surely take its toll eventually.

 

I reckon at that point even one argument could be enough to end things, because where we might compromise before, we might just move on in the knowledge we have plenty of options. And I think that applies equally to both sexes.

Edited June 27, 2011 by Dusk1983

[Jono85]

A statement that reaches a whole new level of stupid mate, and spuriously and disingenuously adding ‘statistically’ only makes it more so!

 

Its probably true men are probably more likely to trade up, given the opportunity, because all men have entered into a relationship on fairly flimsy grounds; often as flimsy as ‘good body’, but that’s not to say we can’t fall in love with someone from there on.

 

Conversely, women typically have more opportunities and thus a whole bunch of detailed criteria. In other words, a guy that meets her criteria is already a way towards being her ‘trade up’.

 

In general, though, I think the reality would be very different were we actually to wake up significantly more attractive. Even the strongest of bonds and connections would come under a steady process of attrition from all those daily admiring glances, and the embarrassed looks of increasingly hot members of the opposite sex, and that would surely take its toll eventually.

 

I reckon at that point even one argument could be enough to end things, because where we might compromise before, we might just move on in the knowledge we have plenty of options. And I think that applies equally to both sexes.

 

to be fair you edited what i said to make it sound worse. i said ON HERE, as in on this forum. and it's true. it's not stupid. there are FAR more threads generalizing about men then the other way around.

 

 

everything else you said was spot on and the reason i made this thread.

 

 

people will never admit to these things (eg. having more leverage/control b/c they feel more attractive than their partner) but like you said, a couple of fights that aren't anything major, and could easily be worked on, all of a sudden turn into "we just don't connect like we used to, we're different people" etc.

 

not saying the majority of good people do this or will do this. but i would bet that there's a lot of ppl out there who feel they are the more attractive one in the relationship and feel less pressure to work on things/issues b/c of it, knowing they can always find someone else. i will say that those ppl would be doing the "uglier" person a favor though b/c that person would deserve someone better and equally committed.

[Jono85]

I wouldn't dump anyone just based on the fact that I could get someone better looking. What a shallow thing to do.

 

but better looking and equally as loving/caring/smart, etc etc and i bet a lot of ppl would be finding "problems" with their current relationship.

[LittleTiger]

that seems so crazy that you not only stayed the same as you did when you were married, but actually got in better shape, became more physically attracted, and he didn't give you attention? weird.

 

Actually Jono, it's not weird at all.

 

If the emotional connection is lost, for whatever reason, it doesn't matter if someone 'upgrades' themselves to supermodel or movie star looks and status. Once the feeling has gone, it's usually gone. There is a point at which it may be recovered if a couple does the work, but once that point is passed, you might as well start looking elsewhere.

 

Looks may be the catalyst that brings two people together (though not always) but they are never the reason that people stay together - never!

[LittleTiger]

but better looking and equally as loving/caring/smart, etc etc and i bet a lot of ppl would be finding "problems" with their current relationship.

 

I wonder if perhaps you don't yet understand what 'love' in a committed relationship really is.

 

I don't mean to be patronising, and I apologise if I come across that way, it's just that based on most of what you say, I'm guessing you haven't yet experienced it. You may have felt you were 'in love' at some time, but that isn't quite the same thing.

 

If/when you do experience the kind of love I'm talking about, you'll (hopefully) understand why so many people here are saying that nobody in the world could drag them away from their current partner.

[LittleTiger]

In general, though, I think the reality would be very different were we actually to wake up significantly more attractive. Even the strongest of bonds and connections would come under a steady process of attrition from all those daily admiring glances, and the embarrassed looks of increasingly hot members of the opposite sex, and that would surely take its toll eventually.

 

I reckon at that point even one argument could be enough to end things, because where we might compromise before, we might just move on in the knowledge we have plenty of options. And I think that applies equally to both sexes.

 

Plenty of options for what exactly?

 

How many times have you met someone who is your ideal life partner?

 

There may well be more than one person in the world that would 'fit' for each of us - but if they were that easy to find, do you think LS would even exist?

[denise_xo]

wouldn't upgrade my partner, just his libido

 

 

 

I find this question ridiculous, not to mention offensive.

 

Upgrade??? Seriously? How many people are with their SO purely because of the way they look?

 

Agree with this - I don't really think in those terms.

[Dusk1983]

Plenty of options for what exactly?

 

How many times have you met someone who is your ideal life partner?

 

There may well be more than one person in the world that would 'fit' for each of us - but if they were that easy to find, do you think LS would even exist?

 

Plenty of options for partners that we find sexually attractive.

 

And you're still looking at this from the wrong direction IMO.

 

In my honest opinion - as much as it contradicts the typically-female need to couch this in terms of 'chemistry' and such like - LS exists because whilst there are many, many people who are 'perfect fit' for us out there in all other ways, the vast majority of them are not sufficiently attractive to us. Infact, that 'perfect fit' isn't even given a chance to reveal itself. The 'perfect fit' is shut down before it even has a chance.

 

But were we to move into the top percentiles for physical attractiveness that of course wouldn't be the case, nearly any physical preference we might have could be fulfilled and, even, regularly be offered to us more or less on a plate.

Edited June 27, 2011 by Dusk1983

[Ross MwcFan]

but better looking and equally as loving/caring/smart, etc etc and i bet a lot of ppl would be finding "problems" with their current relationship.

 

I can't really see that myself.

 

Anyone who started finding problems with their relationship just because they were now able to get someone better looking, probably weren't that into the person who they were with in the first place.

[Dusk1983]

people will never admit to these things (eg. having more leverage/control b/c they feel more attractive than their partner) but like you said, a couple of fights that aren't anything major, and could easily be worked on, all of a sudden turn into "we just don't connect like we used to, we're different people" etc.

 

I actually totally agree and think the way you've expressed it is probably pretty realistic.

 

In a sense one part of that 'connection' has indeed declined, the feeling that you are with someone of similar attractiveness. I wish people would be more honest about this being a bonafide part of a relationship and not something to be ashamed of.

 

IMO, either there's alot of people on LS that are paragons of moral virtue, the likes of which you don't meet in real life, or there's alot of people just keeping up appearances.

[greeneyedgirl613]

im hot and could have any guy i want...so..I wouldn't upgrade unless i was unhappy in the relationship.

[LittleTiger]

Plenty of options for partners that we find sexually attractive.

 

And you're still looking at this from the wrong direction IMO.

 

In my honest opinion - as much as it contradicts the typically-female need to couch this in terms of 'chemistry' and such like - LS exists because whilst there are many, many people who are 'perfect fit' for us out there in all other ways, the vast majority of them are not sufficiently attractive to us. Infact, that 'perfect fit' isn't even given a chance to reveal itself. The 'perfect fit' is shut down before it even has a chance.

 

But were we to move into the top percentiles for physical attractiveness that of course wouldn't be the case, nearly any physical preference we might have could be fulfilled and, even, regularly be offered to us more or less on a plate.

 

It only takes a glance through the thread titles on LS to know that it exists because people are struggling to make relationships work and last. In most cases the threads are about human emotions, the confusion associated with having feelings for another human being and why things are continually going wrong. Now and again you'll get a thread like this one about the importance of looks, but they're few and far between.

 

That's because people are struggling to find someone with whom they are compatible - which includes emotions, intellect, sexuality, values, beliefs, communication styles, humour etc, etc. The list goes on and on.

 

People do not read or join LS because the can't find anyone they're attracted to. Sometimes, we get both men and women, usually with very low self esteem, who are concerned that nobody finds them attractive, but that's not quite the same thing. Do you really believe that all the people on LS are below par looks wise? I am certain there are plenty of 'hotties' amongst us and the 'hot' people have just as many problems with relationships as everyone else.

 

You may have more opportunities for sex or dating if you're better looking but being good looking does not make it any easier to find the 'perfect fit' partner. It could even be a hindrance because you'll get more people 'pretending' they're your perfect fit in order to get your clothes off.

 

There are very few people with whom we are truly compatible when it comes to a long term relationship. If you think otherwise you are kidding yourself. Finding the right person is like finding a needle in a haystack - that's why LS exists!

[LittleTiger]

IMO, either there's alot of people on LS that are paragons of moral virtue, the likes of which you don't meet in real life, or there's alot of people just keeping up appearances.

 

It has nothing to do with moral virtue or keeping up appearances. Some of us (the majority, if this thread is anything to go by) consider other qualities more important than looks in a partner.

 

I readily acknowledge that there are many people who put looks above all else and that's their choice. Surely you can acknowledge that there are many people who don't.

 

We're all different. Just because people disagree with you, it doesn't mean they're being dishonest or 'holier than thou'.

 

Besides which, when you really love someone, and they love you, you wouldn't give that up for anything in the world - not unless you were a complete idiot!

[carhill]

IME, LS has been a real eye-opener as to how much turmoil 'hot' people go through IRL. I've never seen that part IRL, rather that they generally replace one person with another because it's easy for them due to wide attraction. I saw it during my M most markedly, since my exW interfaced with a lot of 'hot' people. TBH, the more I read, and live, the more I'm glad to be 'average' and historically comfortable being alone. The upgraders can pass me right by, something I wouldn't have said 20-30 years ago.