Toodamnpragmatic Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 (edited) ...I just want to add this, too, even though I've totally hogged this thread of late... I appreciate what I read here (and on the OM/OW forum). I like that, even though I'm in the deservedly unpopular role of "wandering spouse", that people (Pierre, etc) have been cordial and I don't disagree with words like "despicable" etc. being thrown around. My intent is not to say what I am doing is right, but just to (perhaps) give insight into what goes through the mind of someone who decides to break their marriage vows - that not everyone is crazy or sociopath - but that people do sh*itty things sometimes, and right now I'm in that group. But you can start your own thread if you want to discuss or have questions. To call things psychobabble as you did above is quite humorous seeing what you have gone through to get to the place you are now. Let's recap: Moved to a country where you don't speak the languageMarry a man who does not speak EnglishUprooted, no family or friendsWhile a huge socio-economic and maybe intellectual gap (who knows as you two can't communicate well), you have assumed the docile/domestic/traditional female rolePhysical abuseMental abuse (conjecture considering staying marriage is the key to citizenship)Sex 4 X's in 2 years in a short-term marriageI can only imagine the courtship and how your family reacted to the news you were marrying a Roofer and moving to ParisHusband's depression (your diagnosis) following father's deathAddicted to gaming 50+ hours/wkHis derogatory comments about you and your body I could go on, but needless to say this is fascinating and deserves it's own thread. Edited June 29, 2011 by Toodamnpragmatic
Frogwife Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 But you can start your own thread if you want to discuss or have questions. To call things psychobabble as you did above is quite humorous seeing what you have gone through to get to the place you are now. Let's recap: Moved to a country where you don't speak the languageMarry a man who does not speak EnglishUprooted, no family or friendsWhile a huge socio-economic and maybe intellectual gap (who knows as you two can't communicate well), you have assumed the docile/domestic/traditional female rolePhysical abuseMental abuse (conjecture considering staying marriage is the key to citizenship)Sex 4 X's in 2 years in a short-term marriageI can only imagine the courtship and how your family reacted to the news you were marrying a Roofer and moving to ParisHusband's depression (your diagnosis) following father's deathAddicted to gaming 50+ hours/wkHis derogatory comments about you and your body I could go on, but needless to say this is fascinating and deserves it's own thread. Yes, I'm sure to the average person it could be perceived as fascinating. I'd lived in three other countries on my own before moving to France (Canada, Germany & England), so living abroad was very normal for me. Because French was my second foreign language, it was quite was quite easy to pick up. Two of my exes in the U.S. were French and we only spoke English together so speaking only French with my husband seems normal to me. We have had physical and emotional abuse issues, which aren't unique to multinational couples. I love keeping a nice home, cooking meals, etc. so that was not anything new or unusual for me. He takes care of yard work and fixing things in the house, which is probably also normal male/female dynamic in most households. My family and friends never said a word about the profession of my husband - it wasn't an issue for them and they really love him. His income is quite good, so there is not a huge socio-economic disparity, but I do make more than he does only because I have a business that is still running in the U.S. Yes, I thought perhaps he might be depressed after his father's death - I was after mine died and certainly with depression, there can be a lack of sex drive - there was for me. I missed my dad a lot and he misses his dad, too. I can understand why this may seem very interesting to you, but for me I don't think it's worthy of a thread. We all have a backstory and that's mine.
Memphis Raines Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 Just wondering if the person is still getting sex, why look for it else where aswell? because some people simply want to f*** different people. its the newness of banging someone new. they are fickle. that and for alot I think it is a validation thing. its not enough for their ego that their significant other is the only one having sex with them.
Frogwife Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 Frogwife said: I actually agree with you. The reasons to have affairs are numerous and quite different, but we are animals and as such "we can be studied" and some conclusions can be made. I also agree, that perhaps we do not know enough and the conclusions may change over time. I agree, there is no such a thing as a normal person and all of us have traits that are far from perfect. However, some of us have an excess of traits that can cause chaotic behavior. I don't expect anyone with a personality disorder to be fully aware of the disorder. Our personalities probably feel normal for most of us. And when I say disorder I simply mean that perhaps the person is slightly outside the norm. But, make no mistake about it---------all of us share traits from all the described personality disorders. You put all the blame for the lack of sex on your H. However, I think both of you need to share the blame. Do you know why you fail to turn your H on? You may not be meeting his emotional needs. By not telling you create a huge secret between the two of you. That secret leads to a wall. There will always be a wall between the two of you and it is difficult to have sex when there is a wall in between. Some folks like sex in a vacuum and from my perspective I don't get it. I could have sex in a vacuum with a woman a few times, but after that it becomes boring. OK, you need to discuss your situation a bit more-----------there is a lot of stuff going on. However, the two of you could certainly improve the marriage if you both made an effort to meet each other emotional needs. There is very popular book on emotional needs that you can order from Amazon. I think is called Her needs, His needs. Meeting these emotional needs tends to improve the marriage. Hello Pierre - I would certainly not mind discussing this further, since I'm new to these forums, if you could suggest an appropriate forum and title for a post, I would be glad to move it. I don't want to lose the text I am responding to (your message), so perhaps I can cut and paste it into a new thread?
Toodamnpragmatic Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 Yes, I'm sure to the average person it could be perceived as fascinating. I'd lived in three other countries on my own before moving to France (Canada, Germany & England), so living abroad was very normal for me. Because French was my second foreign language, it was quite was quite easy to pick up. Two of my exes in the U.S. were French and we only spoke English together so speaking only French with my husband seems normal to me. We have had physical and emotional abuse issues, which aren't unique to multinational couples. I love keeping a nice home, cooking meals, etc. so that was not anything new or unusual for me. He takes care of yard work and fixing things in the house, which is probably also normal male/female dynamic in most households. My family and friends never said a word about the profession of my husband - it wasn't an issue for them and they really love him. His income is quite good, so there is not a huge socio-economic disparity, but I do make more than he does only because I have a business that is still running in the U.S. Yes, I thought perhaps he might be depressed after his father's death - I was after mine died and certainly with depression, there can be a lack of sex drive - there was for me. I missed my dad a lot and he misses his dad, too. I can understand why this may seem very interesting to you, but for me I don't think it's worthy of a thread. We all have a backstory and that's mine. Go ahead and think what you want..... You are a walking contradiction and refuse to look in the mirror for too long..... And heck I am not even that bothered by your affairs or think that is a major issue (the fact I did not bring them up in the 11 points I outlined above)..... It is all the other issues that have brought you to the decisions you have made and the fact you slough them off that I find very interesting.....
Shocking Pink Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 No it's derogatory..... I was born in Quebec and certainly would be very careful using it..... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs Well I know a few people from France but nobody from Quebec. If I ever go there I will make sure not to call them frogs. I wouldn't call anybody a frog if they didn't let me know they thought it was funny first anyway. I think you underestimate the number of men who have affairs as part of a midlife crisis, even while having sex at home. . I personally think this is probably true. In the OM/OW Section. Sorry I am an optimist and think the midlife crisis is overblown and is the result of bad communication. If a husband is getting sex at home and not begging for it and perceiving his wife considers it a chore, and they are attracted to each other, then they are not running around looking for it. And again I am talking affairs, not an erotic massage or a mistaken ONS. They do it because sex at home is no longer spontaneous and fun and the spouse has made it into something the husband thinks he has had to earn. That's not how it was with either of my MM, but I have only been with 2 and the first one had made an arrangement so I guess he was what you call a serial and the other one was only an EA, no sex until he moved out. The first MM just liked to have sex for his big ego, and the second one was not in love and fell in love somewhere else.
Toodamnpragmatic Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 That's not how it was with either of my MM, but I have only been with 2 and the first one had made an arrangement so I guess he was what you call a serial and the other one was only an EA, no sex until he moved out. The first MM just liked to have sex for his big ego, and the second one was not in love and fell in love somewhere else. One was a serial cheater with an "arrangement" and another was "claimed to not be in love", which I then ask is this after 15-20 years (which qualifies as mid-life)? And if not in love were they having regular, good sex?
Shocking Pink Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 The man who had the arrangement still had sex with his wife for the first seventeen years, I dont think they had much sex after that but he could have lied about it. The second MM had pretty regular sex with her for the first 4 years or so, but he wasn't really in love with her from the beginning. They separated now, they weren't even together 15 years. I dont' really ask him a whole lot about their sex life but he never complained about it either. I don't see how that proves your point. Did you even mention anything about 15-20 years in your original point? It seems like your point keeps changing a ltitle bit. First it's men don't cheat unless they're not getting sex, then it's unless they're serial cheaters, then it's if their narcisists, now it's also unless they have arrangements or if aren't in love, or if they've been married fifteen years?
cheergirl Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 Frogwife A couple of interesting responses, I almost exclusively date married women. What is interesting is that quite often they will even suggest trying sex acts that they admit that they have refused to do with their husbands. interesting, I believe for many women there is this strange disconnect between how we view ourselves; good wives, mothers etc. and our true needs which can be anything but delicate or pretty... Reconciling that deep biological desire, facing that can lead to people straying, cheating; for women and men as well...
cheergirl Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 The truth! The sex is often not so hot; being wanted is. wOW, WERE TRUER WORDS EVER SPOKEN?
cheergirl Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 i didn't have time to read the whole thread.. But my pov on this matter is that it's not always about sex.. But i have to say that a lot of times, men do not get the amount of sex they need.. Therefore seek it somewhere else.. These are a few reasons why people cheat.. There are zillions. ditto for women...
cheergirl Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 Well, I guess that is your opinion, based on your perspective. I take it neither you nor your wife has cheated? If that's the case, I can understand why you think that. However, another myth is the looks of the OP. They were willing, period. They too have their unmet needs, dont'cha think? Because there were times in my marriage when he was sick and incapacitated, and the last thing that crossed my mind is that I would cheat because I was getting so little at home at that time. Cheating is a mind set that has very little to do with sex, most of the time. I defer to the people who have cheated, been cheated on, and all the expensive therapy we have been through for the answers. You will notice a pattern if you read here long enough. Cheaters, who claim they were deprived sex, often cheat again, and again, and again unless they discover the underlying root cause of it. You mean to say they can't get laid enough in SEVERAL relationships? I don't buy it. We're all different...
cheergirl Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 ...I just want to add this, too, even though I've totally hogged this thread of late... I appreciate what I read here (and on the OM/OW forum). I like that, even though I'm in the deservedly unpopular role of "wandering spouse", that people (Pierre, etc) have been cordial and I don't disagree with words like "despicable" etc. being thrown around. My intent is not to say what I am doing is right, but just to (perhaps) give insight into what goes through the mind of someone who decides to break their marriage vows - that not everyone is crazy or sociopath - but that people do sh*itty things sometimes, and right now I'm in that group. Just want to say I admire your bravery, honesty, openness, humility and intelligence. Rare qualities... I hope things work out for you...
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