Breezy Trousers Posted June 25, 2011 Posted June 25, 2011 (edited) It needn't be just an illusion. IME the OW really does have control. In your experience, OW, which I respect. Your experience isn't the norm, IMO. Most OW don't have control, judging from what I read here and what I've seen in my own life. Lots of people enter affairs hoping MM will fill a need for them -- a full-time relationship, an elevation in life status, financial security, etc. Then, it's not just about sex. Sex and good times are seen as a gateway to something else altogether. It becomes complicated if OW are unwilling to admit that, in addition to hot sex and good times, they want something from MM. MM aren't blind to that. It's the wanting that gives MM the power and causes OW to find themselves willing to settle with MM like these (quoting you): And for those few who really do just want a part-time R, they want it on THEIR terms, not on yours. They want to be the ones who call the shots, who decide when to see you, what will and won't be on the agenda. They don't want to be the disposable sex toy - they want you to play that role for them. Sorry, I don't do that. I know which side of the power dynamic I stand on. As the French proverb goes, “In love, there is always one who kisses and one who offers the cheek.” If you aren't as attached as the other person, person, you tend to hold the power in the relationship. Control wouldn't be illusory for an OW in that instance. That's not usually what I tend to see here, though. I Most married people who have an affair with another married person are not serial cheaters, or even bad people, and most are surprised when they find themselves in the situation. (That is not an excuse, so please don't jump all over me on this point.) This is not about your experience, Cabin -- Just want to say that I disagree that most married people who have an affair with another married person are not serial cheaters. It just takes that first affair to open that door, IME, and many eventually get bored in a long-term relationship and want to revisit that excitement, having had a taste of it already. Affairs are highly addictive. Craiglist and AshleyMadison.com are very popular sites for this reason. I think Maya Angelou said, " People will show you who they are .. you just have to believe them. " Edited June 25, 2011 by Breezy Trousers
Author MissBee Posted June 25, 2011 Author Posted June 25, 2011 (edited) I'll share my thoughts from my perspective: a married woman involved with a married man. We were attracted to each other without purpose or plan. Neither of us was looking for someone else. Neither of us thought we'd ever wind up in an affair. I've read that most EAs that become PAs are not conscientious "plans", instead they are about blurring boundaries little by little as emotions intensify. Most married people who have an affair with another married person are not serial cheaters, or even bad people, and most are surprised when they find themselves in the situation. (That is not an excuse, so please don't jump all over me on this point.) In my case, there was certainly a "safety" associated with being interested in another married person. There was balance that way, you know? We each had the same situation: spouse, kids, homes, etc. But that safety was an illusion . Now, almost two years since the feelings and mutual desire first surfaced, neither of us can really imagine life without the other... Good post! That idea of safety as well as it being an illusion is a great point, as that factors into all forms of ambiguous relationship scenarios. FWBs, Part-time relationships etc all come from a place of perceived safety where "Oh we're just friends who like to have sex sometimes", "Oh it's just a sometimes relationship".....but boundaries often get blurry and you in fact play out a "regulr relationship" or end up with "regular relationship feelings" that change the game. I was talking to my bestfriend about this, she is involved with a girl, she sees this girl weekly, sleeps over, has sex, goes out and the lot but they have no titles and are not in a relationship and she actually said the same words of "It feels safer...I am in no rush to form anything serious". I kind of chuckled and said...I actually understand what she is saying, but you're in a relationship with this person, regardless, you're doing everything you do in a relationship and although you have "no expectations", how would you feel if she started talking to someone else romantically, if there are no strings and you're not "committed" then it should be A-ok....and ofcourse she was like "Ermmmm welll....." But it's that idea that if you don't say it or you're both agreeing it's not that serious, then it's okay or it's not that risky or daunting....but when it's ambiguous and the boundaries are either nonexistent or weak they get blurred and demolished overtime with it becoming an affair as you said or your part time R or FWB seems to "overnight" become something more. I think it was bentnotbroken who once commented that "Social networks don't ruin relationships, people with weak boundaries do". It was brilliant and true. I think the reason why certain flings end up being a firestorm of drama is because of people with weak boundaries thinking they can only engage a situation "a little" or "part time"...when in fact they cannot. Edited June 25, 2011 by MissBee
Author MissBee Posted June 25, 2011 Author Posted June 25, 2011 I agree with Breezy, OWoman, I respect your experience in that from what I am gathering and what you have explained, you may very well be someone with a strong sense of boundaries and the appropriate detachment and so on necessary to conduct a fling/part time relationship and leave unscathed. I am not about to say you're lying or you in fact were scathed and so on.... But I do believe as Breezy said and as Cabin's experience, my own and many many others have shown, most people involved in such scenarios are not in a place to enact strong boundaries or even in the words of Cabin, a current OW, there is some element of an illusion of safety or control by being with a fellow MP or by being with a FWB or whatever the case is. However, often times with those fickle boundaries....you slip then slide over some precipice of which you feel you have little control. That seems to be the common tale here. I do however in general find the idea of perceived control versus actual control to be a topic of interesting as it cannot be denied that one may have the appearance of being in control and feel rather smug that one is, and come to find out, one is not. (I am not saying you btw, just that this type of thing exists).
Breezy Trousers Posted June 25, 2011 Posted June 25, 2011 Not to thread-jack, but I also think there is a HUGE difference between a relationship with a MM/single OW and two APs who are both married! Why? Sometimes MM target MM because being married heightens the feeling of conquest -- i.e., he must be really special if she would betray her spouse for him. (It's why some people routinely cheat with married people ... I just finished reading Andrew Morton's bio of Angelina Jolie Pitt, which touches on this.) Also, MPs are less likely to rock the boat for other MPs. MP demand less and have more to lose. I was reading a bio on FDR, and the author said that FDR's affair with Lucy Mercer was considered unusual during his era because most of the men in D.C. preferred to have affairs with married women, not single women. That was pre-1920's! Of course, not all affairs are the same.
Breezy Trousers Posted June 25, 2011 Posted June 25, 2011 I think it was bentnotbroken who once commented that "Social networks don't ruin relationships, people with weak boundaries do". It was brilliant and true. I think the reason why certain flings end up being a firestorm of drama is because of people with weak boundaries thinking they can only engage a situation "a little" or "part time"...when in fact they cannot. Good point! I think this is the slippery slope of affairs...
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