Denial in "Betrayed Spouses"

[John Michael Kane]

I think it's about time for someone to step up and actually tackle an issue we all been scared to discuss: the denial in "betrayed spouses."

 

It's pretty ridiculous that folks here resort to calling those who moved on, bitter, when they are still with the person who screwed them over.

 

It's pretty ridiculous that many "betrayed spouses" talk about how cheaters, Other Men and Women, are scum and liars, yet they're still married to the one person who screwed them over.

 

They promote reconciliation and biased "counseling" because they have their own unresolved resentment, fears, and other domestic marital problems they've been struggling with.

 

Living in denial is a waste of time and years you cannot retain.

 

Staying in miserable relationships with obviously unremorseful cheaters is a waste of time and years you cannot retain.

 

I am ready for those who want to call me bitter because I chose to move on and find a better lady.

 

But in a preplanned response, I am not bitter and unlike you all, I acknowledge me being hurt by my frivolous ex-wife. I just chose not to let her have the chance to hurt me again.

 

Sure divorce isn't easy and having kids makes it even harder. I know that, because I have a son. Hell I even thought about staying because of him. But his mother was the person he and I were supposed to trust and she broke that trust. Now she has paid the "standard" price since she wanted to bump and grind with a nobody.

 

Living in denial is a waste of time.

[silktricks]

I think it's about time for someone to step up and actually tackle an issue we all been scared to discuss: the denial in "betrayed spouses."

 

It's pretty ridiculous that folks here resort to calling those who moved on, bitter, when they are still with the person who screwed them over.

 

JMK, I doubt I've ever called you "bitter" as I think the term is stupid. But it doesn't appear that you have moved on, as you seem to have so much anger.

 

It's pretty ridiculous that many "betrayed spouses" talk about how cheaters, Other Men and Women, are scum and liars, yet they're still married to the one person who screwed them over.

I don't refer to other people as scum and liars.

 

They promote reconciliation and biased "counseling" because they have their own unresolved resentment, fears, and other domestic marital problems they've been struggling with.

I don't "promote" reconciliation. I state that it is VERY difficult, and not a choice for everyone. If, however, someone is considering making that choice, I attempt to help them see what some of the pluses and minuses are.

 

I also don't "promote" no reconciliation. I don't think it's my place to promote either, as this is one of the most personal choices a person will make. I wouldn't have wanted someone pushing me in either direction, and try not to do that to anyone else.

 

Living in denial is a waste of time and years you cannot retain.

 

Staying in miserable relationships with obviously unremorseful cheaters is a waste of time and years you cannot retain.

I absolutely agree. Either of those is a waste. However, you make a ridiculous assumption here. I am not in a miserable relationship. I am not living in denial. And I am not with an unremorseful cheater.

 

I am ready for those who want to call me bitter because I chose to move on and find a better lady.

 

But in a preplanned response, I am not bitter and unlike you all, I acknowledge me being hurt by my frivolous ex-wife. I just chose not to let her have the chance to hurt me again.

 

Sure divorce isn't easy and having kids makes it even harder. I know that, because I have a son. Hell I even thought about staying because of him. But his mother was the person he and I were supposed to trust and she broke that trust. Now she has paid the "standard" price since she wanted to bump and grind with a nobody.

 

Living in denial is a waste of time.

 

OK. You aren't bitter. That's good. For the record, choosing to move on does not IMO ever include bitterness, because moving on means also that you've left "stuff" behind, and bitterness should be one of those things.

 

I don't think you made a bad choice. I think you made the choice you needed to make. I divorced my 1st husband. I made the right choice. Like your wife, he was unrepentant. I have no doubt that he would have done the same thing again, had I not divorced him. However, there is a world of difference between my 1st husband and my 2nd. My 2nd is completely repentant. I know without a shadow of a doubt that he will never cheat again.

 

I would have been a fool to have stayed with my 1st husband. I would have been a fool to have left my 2nd.

 

We rebuilt our marriage from the ground up. Started from scratch. We have a much more satisfying marriage for both of us than we did before. It's too bad that we didn't deal with the original problems, as it would have saved us both a tremendous amount of pain.

[OldOnTheInside]

Oh boy...

 

Incoming sh*tstorm.

 

I'm staying out of this.

[Owl]

What's interesting about this is that you'll note that none of the BS's who have reconciled their marriages are insistent that this is the only option, as you make it sound in your opening post.

 

I've NEVER insisted that someone must reconcile their marriage.

 

My approach has always been to support them in whichever choice they make.

 

The problem that comes into play here is when others INSIST that theirs is the "one true way", and insist without any actual first hand experience that a marriage cannot recover and that the only possible option is to immediately divorce.

 

The insistence that someone cannot possibly recover a marriage based off your own inability to heal is misguided at best, and downright insulting to those that have successfully done so.

 

The insistence that those that do stay and reconcile are somehow mentally ill or deluded equally so.

 

Divorce is an option.

 

Reconciliation is often also an option as well, even if you personally don't like it or don't agree.

 

Trying to force others to believe that your path is the only path is acceptable, but giving advice to someone who seeks to reconcile their marriage (THEIR choice, not mine) is an example of denial?

 

I think not.

[rafallus]

The insistence that someone cannot possibly recover a marriage based off your own inability to heal is misguided at best

Why would you need to imply some kind of inferiority of those who don't want to work things out?

 

It's a choice.

PS. If someone actually couldn't heal from stuff like that, I'd imagine him/her hanging in Aokigahara forest (aka. suicided) before going through even a bit of adult life.

 

It looks like there's some "us vs them" war going on here between those who reconciled (and think they are superior human beings because of that) vs those who didn't (and accuse those who did of denial)

Edited June 23, 2011 by rafallus

[John Michael Kane]

JMK, I doubt I've ever called you "bitter" as I think the term is stupid. But it doesn't appear that you have moved on, as you seem to have so much anger.

 

Ahh here we go. Just what I've been waiting for.

 

See folks? She basically said she never called me bitter, even though she just called me bitter.LOL

 

I don't refer to other people as scum and liars.

 

How sweet of you. And I seriously mean that.

 

I don't "promote" reconciliation. I state that it is VERY difficult, and not a choice for everyone. If, however, someone is considering making that choice, I attempt to help them see what some of the pluses and minuses are.

 

There are no "pluses" in reconciliation. Only sloppy seconds and future pain that pushes folks to the brink of insanity.

 

I also don't "promote" no reconciliation. I don't think it's my place to promote either, as this is one of the most personal choices a person will make. I wouldn't have wanted someone pushing me in either direction, and try not to do that to anyone else.

 

Didn't you just say you don't promote it (even though you do)?

 

 

I absolutely agree. Either of those is a waste. However, you make a ridiculous assumption here. I am not in a miserable relationship. I am not living in denial. And I am not with an unremorseful cheater.

 

Then why call me bitter? Evidently I'm not, since I have eliminated the threat that was behind my back. So in conclusion, it must be those who choose to stay in miserable relationships.

 

OK. You aren't bitter. That's good.

 

Oh no don't back out. You specifically stated I was bitter, which is untrue.

 

For the record, choosing to move on does not IMO ever include bitterness, because moving on means also that you've left "stuff" behind, and bitterness should be one of those things.

 

Actually my ex left the moment she played "hide the salami" with another. I just kicked her out and ended the legalities between us. Well, most of them.

 

But on a technical note I don't understand what you're stating about me leaving "stuff" behind. I didn't leave anything behind so you're still implying I'm somehow bitter because I chose to divorce her.

 

I don't think you made a bad choice. I think you made the choice you needed to make. I divorced my 1st husband. I made the right choice. Like your wife, he was unrepentant.

 

I left because I did not want to put up with it at all.

 

I have no doubt that he would have done the same thing again, had I not divorced him. However, there is a world of difference between my 1st husband and my 2nd. My 2nd is completely repentant. I know without a shadow of a doubt that he will never cheat again.

 

I would have been a fool to have stayed with my 1st husband.

 

This is exactly what I'm talking about. You don't honestly know if your husband will not cheat again, since it's evident that he cheated before, which shows most likely he'll cheat again.

 

 

I would have been a fool to have left my 2nd.

 

Complete denial at it's highest.

 

Both cheated. Just because one shows remorse doesn't mean he won't cheat again.

 

We rebuilt our marriage from the ground up. Started from scratch. We have a much more satisfying marriage for both of us than we did before. It's too bad that we didn't deal with the original problems, as it would have saved us both a tremendous amount of pain.

 

You can't start from scratch because you're still married to the same person.

 

This "reborn" theory betrayed spouses in denial have is out of control and has no connection to reality.

 

And see you've convinced yourself that somehow you're at fault for his cheating. You may not have dealt with the problems before, but you didn't go off and cheat when times were hard. He did, and it looks like he's trying to use that as an excuse to cheat on you, and you're accepting it.

 

Denial.

[PhoenixRise]

This is a topic that people are scared to discuss??

 

I couldn't tell for all the many many posts I have read here that state emphatically that BS's who reconcile are; in denial, delusional, have low self esteem, are too scared to make it on their own, are secretly miserable, are always afraid their spouse will cheat again, etc.

 

 

People make these types of statements all the time here at LS.

 

I think the real denial is evident in people who can't understand that their idea of what reconciliation MUST look like does not equal the reality of many people who actually live their reconciliation.

[RepairMinded]

I think it's about time for someone to step up and actually tackle an issue we all been scared to discuss: the denial in "betrayed spouses."

 

Denial is a psychological coping tool which is difficult to address because the denier lacks the ability to perceive their own denial. Therefore if what you're trying to do is get those you feel to be in denial to perceive it, a direct method is probably not going to be effective.

 

 

 

It's pretty ridiculous that folks here resort to calling those who moved on, bitter, when they are still with the person who screwed them over.

 

Actually it's not ridiculous at all, in that it's a classic symptom of their denial. If they weren't in denial, they wouldn't be so quick to call others who chose a different path "bitter" and "angry," implying that "bitterness" and "anger" are somehow inappropriate emotions to feel, when reflecting on the damage caused by infidelity.

 

The point is, the denial requires that they deny their own internal feelings of bitterness and anger at being cheated on, rather than acknowledge them. Since they've never moved on from the person who had the affair, they have a constant reminder of the affair.

 

In my opinion there's nothing wrong with being "bitter" and "angry" at having been victimized by an unfaithful partner. We have the ability to experience these emotions--let's call them another form of "pain"--for a reason, the same reason your hand hurts if you stick it in an open flame. The pain is what lets you know that you have to take your hand out of the flame to avoid further serious damage. If you anesthestize your hand you might not feel the pain, but your hand still burns.

 

If we didn't feel "bitter" and "angry" and "hurt" over being cheated on, then we're not going to have any real motivation to protect ourselves against it.

 

I don't mock someone if they tell me someone sadistically burned them with a lit cigarette. I don't mock someone who looks at their burn scar and feels anger and bitterness over the person who put it there, even if that person is long since gone. On the other hand if someone tells me that when someone burns them with a cigarette, there is no pain, and there is no scar, either they are anestethized (denial being a psychological form of self-anesthetic) or they are simply not being truthful.

 

 

It's pretty ridiculous that many "betrayed spouses" talk about how cheaters, Other Men and Women, are scum and liars, yet they're still married to the one person who screwed them over.

 

Maybe they have a "special" ex-cheating spouse who really has successfully made the journey down the road to Damascus. But in that case they still have to admit that their spouse is an unusually rare one in a thousand exception and that is not a basis to council anyone else to have high expectations.

 

In contrast, what we have here is people claiming not just that their own spouse is super unusual and made a remarkable recovery, they are then using that to advise others to expect the same thing, which makes absolutely no sense.

 

At best reconciliation with an unfaithful spouse is a total crapshoot most likely destined to fail badly except in VERY unusual circumstances. Those unusual circumstances would include the ability of the unfaithful spouse, and the willingness, to totally re-vamp their personalities. As we can detect from the option of reading the various posts and threads from wayward spouses, both male and female, most of them just don't remotely come close to that ability. Every betrayed spouse needs to acknowledge that.

 

About the ONLY former wayward spouse I have seen posting on Love Shack who even comes CLOSE to this is thomasb. There is always the lingering question of whether he is absolutely sincere, but I really haven't even seen anyone else who has been post affair for say 5-10 years who even CLAIMS to have had a real attitude change. (Apologies to any other fWS similar to thomasb. Feel free to speak up and correct me. Are you out there somewhere?) I am talking about accepting 100% responsibility for what they did with absolutely zero attempts at justification or blame shifting. If there are others, I can't see that they represent more than one or two percent of people posting here.

 

 

 

They promote reconciliation and biased "counseling" because they have their own unresolved resentment, fears, and other domestic marital problems they've been struggling with.

 

They don't feel they're permitted to have their bitterness or anger at what their wayward spouse did. That's "verboten." The betrayed spouse is not allowed to have negative emotions because of the threat that the unfaithful spouse won't put up with it and will split the relationship. A truly remorseful wayward spouse needs to be ready to give the betrayed spouse the total freedom of the betrayed spouse's emotions, positive and negative, because the negative emotions are a direct consequence of the affair. But unfortunately most of the waywards are not willing to accept that fallout. They want the betrayed to "get over it." The betrayed spouse is required to "forgive" the unfaithful spouse or else the unfaithful spouse will refuse reconciliation.

 

Sorry that doesn't work for me too well.

 

Living in denial is a waste of time and years you cannot retain.

 

It's a defense mechanism. Maybe some people are actually afraid or unable to split from an unremorseful spouse for practical reasons such as finances or child raising. If my spouse cheated on me right now it would probably be financially impossible for us to divorce and run two separate households. That's just a naked reality which I accept. On the other hand, I wouldn't go around claiming that we were magically in recovery or that I wasn't bitter and angry about it.

 

A lot of people probably stay because they are psychologically afraid to leave even if the finances permit it. That's where the denial kicks in.

 

 

 

 

Staying in miserable relationships with obviously unremorseful cheaters is a waste of time and years you cannot retain.

 

People stay in even miserable relationships because some kind of psychological need is being fulfilled. Pierre raised an interesting point in the other thread--"Maybe cheaters deliberately target people who would never ever cheat, because it's easier to get over on the totally faithful"--I'm paraphrasing his idea here.

 

Obviously the betrayed spouse who stays with a cheater, even if the cheater is unremorseful, is doing so to fulfill some kind of a need. The cheater is supplying something to the betrayed spouse, even if that "something" is more emotional abuse. Many of the people posting here seem to either have, or have partners suffering from, multiple dysfunctional aspects of their personalities. Not just cheating, but personality disorders, alcohol/drug abuse, various bizarre family issues, and so on.

 

On the other hand, many cheaters seem to be very high functioning in other areas, and maybe those abilities "make up for" the cheating sufficiently to keep the betrayed spouse in an emotionally unsatisfactory relationship. You will often hear betrayed spouses say of the cheater, "But he/she is a GOOD PARENT." And maybe on some levels they are good parents, in terms of caring for the children and financial. Poor marital role models, perhaps.

 

I am ready for those who want to call me bitter because I chose to move on and find a better lady.

 

You're entitled to be "bitter" because you're entitled to your emotions. I'm not sure what calling you "bitter", even if it's true, has to do with anything other than your own situation, though.

 

 

 

But in a preplanned response, I am not bitter and unlike you all, I acknowledge me being hurt by my frivolous ex-wife. I just chose not to let her have the chance to hurt me again.

 

Right. Exactly.

 

Sure divorce isn't easy and having kids makes it even harder. I know that, because I have a son. Hell I even thought about staying because of him. But his mother was the person he and I were supposed to trust and she broke that trust. Now she has paid the "standard" price since she wanted to bump and grind with a nobody.

 

This proves you are rational and not bitter because you actually considered staying with her for your son's benefit (self sacrifice), you didn't make a "snap judgment" without considering other options. Doesn't sound very "bitter" to me.

 

Living in denial is a waste of time.

 

Unfortunately if for whatever reason a betrayed spouse is unable to move on, it is one of the available coping methods, which is why it is so common.

[RepairMinded]

silktricks posted:

 

However, there is a world of difference between my 1st husband and my 2nd. My 2nd is completely repentant. I know without a shadow of a doubt that he will never cheat again.

 

Yet, according to Owl, EVERYONE (which would include your 2nd husband obviously) is just as capable of cheating, in the future, as Owl's wife.

 

Both of you cannot be right. Between the two of you, someone must be in denial--maybe both of you. But at least one of you MUST be.

[Spark1111]

This is a topic that people are scared to discuss??

 

I couldn't tell for all the many many posts I have read here that state emphatically that BS's who reconcile are; in denial, delusional, have low self esteem, are too scared to make it on their own, are secretly miserable, are always afraid their spouse will cheat again, etc.

 

 

People make these types of statements all the time here at LS.

 

I think the real denial is evident in people who can't understand that their idea of what reconciliation MUST look like does not equal the reality of many people who actually live their reconciliation.

 

And you almost feel like you have to apologize for being happy, fercryin'outloud!

[John Michael Kane]

What's interesting about this is that you'll note that none of the BS's who have reconciled their marriages are insistent that this is the only option, as you make it sound in your opening post.

 

A lot of them are insistent that it's the only option.

 

Look at Silktricks:

 

Silktricks just said that she's taking the blame for what she had no control over. She makes it sound as if had she took care of business in the marriage department, her husband would've never cheated. That's someone who has been abused.

 

I've NEVER insisted that someone must reconcile their marriage.

Owl come on. Really?

 

My approach has always been to support them in whichever choice they make.

In almost every post you state to reconcile.

 

The problem that comes into play here is when others INSIST that theirs is the "one true way", and insist without any actual first hand experience that a marriage cannot recover and that the only possible option is to immediately divorce.

That's the point I've been trying to state: That reconciliation is not the "one true way."

 

Sure the marriage hasn't been destroyed legally, but the bond has already been broken.

 

The insistence that someone cannot possibly recover a marriage based off your own inability to heal is misguided at best, and downright insulting to those that have successfully done so.

But Owl how can one assume the other is bitter if the accuser is still with the person who cheated on them?

 

Me and Repairminded just gave you a spanking. Don't make us do it again (just kidding).

 

The insistence that those that do stay and reconcile are somehow mentally ill or deluded equally so.

LOL

 

Divorce is an option.

And the best option.

 

Reconciliation is often also an option as well, even if you personally don't like it or don't agree.

Sorry I won't live with pain. I cut out the main source.

 

Trying to force others to believe that your path is the only path is acceptable, but giving advice to someone who seeks to reconcile their marriage (THEIR choice, not mine) is an example of denial?

 

I think not.

I can ask the same question regarding your "stance."

[2sure]

Denial of reality is hardly exclusive to or a main characteristic of a BS who chooses to try an attempt at reconciliation with WS.

 

Whether someone stays or leaves...both partners have to rid themselves of denial, face the facts, and embrace reality simply to move on.

 

Like any thing else in life , bitterness comes from not accepting and embracing the facts of your life, your role in them, and the lessons learned.

 

Being bitter and angry comes with the territory of any kind of betrayal. BS, just like anyone else, dont usually stay that way. Its a process.

[reboot]

Oh my, yet another thread with an obvious agenda. I think I'll pass.

[OldOnTheInside]

Oh my, yet another thread with an obvious agenda. I think I'll pass.

 

"A strange game. The only winning move is not to play."

[John Michael Kane]

I think the real denial is evident in people who can't understand that their idea of what reconciliation MUST look like does not equal the reality of many people who actually live their reconciliation.

 

Says those who are living denial. They call others bitter bitter bitter and talk about how they're so superior because they're still married to a cheater (who doesn't even respect them), yet they're the ones who refuse to face that they still have their own anger and uncertainties about their marriage they need to deal with.

[John Michael Kane]

Denial is a psychological coping tool which is difficult to address because the denier lacks the ability to perceive their own denial. Therefore if what you're trying to do is get those you feel to be in denial to perceive it, a direct method is probably not going to be effective.

 

 

 

 

 

Actually it's not ridiculous at all, in that it's a classic symptom of their denial. If they weren't in denial, they wouldn't be so quick to call others who chose a different path "bitter" and "angry," implying that "bitterness" and "anger" are somehow inappropriate emotions to feel, when reflecting on the damage caused by infidelity.

 

The point is, the denial requires that they deny their own internal feelings of bitterness and anger at being cheated on, rather than acknowledge them. Since they've never moved on from the person who had the affair, they have a constant reminder of the affair.

 

In my opinion there's nothing wrong with being "bitter" and "angry" at having been victimized by an unfaithful partner. We have the ability to experience these emotions--let's call them another form of "pain"--for a reason, the same reason your hand hurts if you stick it in an open flame. The pain is what lets you know that you have to take your hand out of the flame to avoid further serious damage. If you anesthestize your hand you might not feel the pain, but your hand still burns.

 

If we didn't feel "bitter" and "angry" and "hurt" over being cheated on, then we're not going to have any real motivation to protect ourselves against it.

 

I don't mock someone if they tell me someone sadistically burned them with a lit cigarette. I don't mock someone who looks at their burn scar and feels anger and bitterness over the person who put it there, even if that person is long since gone. On the other hand if someone tells me that when someone burns them with a cigarette, there is no pain, and there is no scar, either they are anestethized (denial being a psychological form of self-anesthetic) or they are simply not being truthful.

 

 

 

 

Maybe they have a "special" ex-cheating spouse who really has successfully made the journey down the road to Damascus. But in that case they still have to admit that their spouse is an unusually rare one in a thousand exception and that is not a basis to council anyone else to have high expectations.

 

In contrast, what we have here is people claiming not just that their own spouse is super unusual and made a remarkable recovery, they are then using that to advise others to expect the same thing, which makes absolutely no sense.

 

At best reconciliation with an unfaithful spouse is a total crapshoot most likely destined to fail badly except in VERY unusual circumstances. Those unusual circumstances would include the ability of the unfaithful spouse, and the willingness, to totally re-vamp their personalities. As we can detect from the option of reading the various posts and threads from wayward spouses, both male and female, most of them just don't remotely come close to that ability. Every betrayed spouse needs to acknowledge that.

 

About the ONLY former wayward spouse I have seen posting on Love Shack who even comes CLOSE to this is thomasb. There is always the lingering question of whether he is absolutely sincere, but I really haven't even seen anyone else who has been post affair for say 5-10 years who even CLAIMS to have had a real attitude change. (Apologies to any other fWS similar to thomasb. Feel free to speak up and correct me. Are you out there somewhere?) I am talking about accepting 100% responsibility for what they did with absolutely zero attempts at justification or blame shifting. If there are others, I can't see that they represent more than one or two percent of people posting here.

 

 

 

 

 

They don't feel they're permitted to have their bitterness or anger at what their wayward spouse did. That's "verboten." The betrayed spouse is not allowed to have negative emotions because of the threat that the unfaithful spouse won't put up with it and will split the relationship. A truly remorseful wayward spouse needs to be ready to give the betrayed spouse the total freedom of the betrayed spouse's emotions, positive and negative, because the negative emotions are a direct consequence of the affair. But unfortunately most of the waywards are not willing to accept that fallout. They want the betrayed to "get over it." The betrayed spouse is required to "forgive" the unfaithful spouse or else the unfaithful spouse will refuse reconciliation.

 

Sorry that doesn't work for me too well.

 

 

 

It's a defense mechanism. Maybe some people are actually afraid or unable to split from an unremorseful spouse for practical reasons such as finances or child raising. If my spouse cheated on me right now it would probably be financially impossible for us to divorce and run two separate households. That's just a naked reality which I accept. On the other hand, I wouldn't go around claiming that we were magically in recovery or that I wasn't bitter and angry about it.

 

A lot of people probably stay because they are psychologically afraid to leave even if the finances permit it. That's where the denial kicks in.

 

 

 

 

 

 

People stay in even miserable relationships because some kind of psychological need is being fulfilled. Pierre raised an interesting point in the other thread--"Maybe cheaters deliberately target people who would never ever cheat, because it's easier to get over on the totally faithful"--I'm paraphrasing his idea here.

 

Obviously the betrayed spouse who stays with a cheater, even if the cheater is unremorseful, is doing so to fulfill some kind of a need. The cheater is supplying something to the betrayed spouse, even if that "something" is more emotional abuse. Many of the people posting here seem to either have, or have partners suffering from, multiple dysfunctional aspects of their personalities. Not just cheating, but personality disorders, alcohol/drug abuse, various bizarre family issues, and so on.

 

On the other hand, many cheaters seem to be very high functioning in other areas, and maybe those abilities "make up for" the cheating sufficiently to keep the betrayed spouse in an emotionally unsatisfactory relationship. You will often hear betrayed spouses say of the cheater, "But he/she is a GOOD PARENT." And maybe on some levels they are good parents, in terms of caring for the children and financial. Poor marital role models, perhaps.

 

 

 

You're entitled to be "bitter" because you're entitled to your emotions. I'm not sure what calling you "bitter", even if it's true, has to do with anything other than your own situation, though.

 

 

 

 

 

Right. Exactly.

 

 

 

This proves you are rational and not bitter because you actually considered staying with her for your son's benefit (self sacrifice), you didn't make a "snap judgment" without considering other options. Doesn't sound very "bitter" to me.

 

 

 

Unfortunately if for whatever reason a betrayed spouse is unable to move on, it is one of the available coping methods, which is why it is so common.

 

Exactly! And see? We can have a discussion without resorting to calling each other names and using the same tireless word called "bitter."

 

Others? Look at them! Sucking their cheaters' toes and turned on that their spouse had sex with someone else!

 

Eww!

[John Michael Kane]

And you almost feel like you have to apologize for being happy, fercryin'outloud!

 

Apologize for what? Staying with a cheater is in no way happy.

[PhoenixRise]

Says those who are living denial. They call others bitter bitter bitter and talk about how they're so superior because they're still married to a cheater (who doesn't even respect them), yet they're the ones who refuse to face that they still have their own anger and uncertainties about their marriage they need to deal with.

 

 

I haven't called anyone bitter. EVER.

 

I have never seen anyone post that they are superior for having reconciled their marriage. I have never seen anyone post as if reconciliation is the only legitimate way to go.

 

Everything else you posted is just your assumptions of how the lives and marriages of those who reconcile MUST be. It has absolutely nothing to do with the actual reality of the reconciled spouses who post here.

[John Michael Kane]

Denial of reality is hardly exclusive to or a main characteristic of a BS who chooses to try an attempt at reconciliation with WS.

 

Whether someone stays or leaves...both partners have to rid themselves of denial, face the facts, and embrace reality simply to move on.

 

Which is what I and countless others have done, yet here are those who simply think leaving is like trying to understand calculus.

 

Like any thing else in life , bitterness comes from not accepting and embracing the facts of your life, your role in them, and the lessons learned.

 

Sorry I play no role in cheating, except for getting screwed over and hurt. Nobody is responsible for cheating except the cheater.

[Owl]

Owl come on. Really?

 

In almost every post you state to reconcile.

 

Really. You need to go back and re-read my posts. Take note that the majority of threads I post on are ones where the OP has already decided to reconcile.

 

If they haven't...I tell them that they need to pick a goal...divorce or reconciliation. And if the choice is reconciliation...THEN I join in. If they choose divorce...I have no experience in it and usually drop out of the thread.

 

You're just straight mistaken.

 

I do NOT insist that divorce is not an option. For many, it's the best choice. I simply tend to participate in threads where the OP has ALREADY chosen, or is looking to decide.

[silktricks]

Why would you need to imply some kind of inferiority of those who don't want to work things out?

 

It's a choice.

PS. If someone actually couldn't heal from stuff like that, I'd imagine him/her hanging in Aokigahara forest (aka. suicided) before going through even a bit of adult life.

 

It looks like there's some "us vs them" war going on here between those who reconciled (and think they are superior human beings because of that) vs those who didn't (and accuse those who did of denial)

 

I don't think I'm better in any way because my husband and I were able to reconcile.

[John Michael Kane]

I have never seen anyone post that they are superior for having reconciled their marriage. I have never seen anyone post as if reconciliation is the only legitimate way to go.

 

Well you should come read more.

 

Everything else you posted is just your assumptions of how the lives and marriages of those who reconcile MUST be. It has absolutely nothing to do with the actual reality of the reconciled spouses who post here.

 

It's not an assumption, it's a fact: BSs who stay after a considerable amount of abuse from their cheating spouse, and then try to convince others who left are bitter, shows the denial they're in.

[confusedinkansas]

Agenda - Yep! Besides that, there's no talkin' to this guy. He'll twist it to suit his own "Agenda" anyway.........Out.

[Owl]

It's not an assumption, it's a fact: BSs who stay after a considerable amount of abuse from their cheating spouse, and then try to convince others who left are bitter, shows the denial they're in.

 

You need to learn how to distinguish a fact from YOUR OPINION.

[John Michael Kane]

If they haven't...I tell them that they need to pick a goal...divorce or reconciliation. And if the choice is reconciliation...THEN I join in. If they choose divorce...I have no experience in it and usually drop out of the thread.

This is what I'm talking about also. Refusing to help those who want advice on how to go about divorce and they get little to no help at all. That's why I say it's ridiculous the amount of promotion of "reconciliation" and biased "counseling" on this site.

You're just straight mistaken.

No I'm not.

 

I do NOT insist that divorce is not an option. For many, it's the best choice. I simply tend to participate in threads where the OP has ALREADY chosen, or is looking to decide.

Here you said you participate in threads where the OP is looking to decide, and insist on reconciliation. You just said you do not insist on reconciliation, you tell them to pick a choice. Which is it?