RepairMinded Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 If it's suppose to be a business dinner, or a business-related social event, (which is why cabin was invited along with the affair partner) then I don't even understand why she was so focused on what her affair partner and his spouse were or weren't doing with each other. Cabin you weren't "there" as your affair partner's guest or companion; his wife was; so what is the big deal? You sound like you have to prove that he wasn't having a good time with his wife so as to puff yourself up. My point is, weren't you at that dinner for your OWN reasons (work related) having nothing at all to do with your affair partner? What is it with all the focus on your affair partner during a dinner that you weren't even his date for? You actually sound quite jealous of the wife which is odd if you think you have nothing to be jealous about in terms of who your affair partner favors. In terms of the wife acting crabby towards your OM, who really knows why? Maybe Auntie Flo was visiting.
RepairMinded Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 My AP is the LIFE of the party. You do realize that describing someone as "the LIFE of the party" is something of a left-handed compliment, at best? Usually these guys tend to be obnoxious loudmouths who always have to be the center of attention and drink too much. Perhaps that's why his wife seemed irritated with him--the guy probably acts like a jerk at these things, thinking of himself as the center of attention/"life of the party." No doubt his incredible reservoir of suavity and charm is what attracted you to him.
reservoirdog1 Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 but after what I saw last night, I don't see how he can possibly stay. Probably because he's getting sex from two women.
LilyBart Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 A need for a gray area, or no black and white thinking is important to ignoring the unpleasantness of the reality of a situation. We don't want gray areas in other aspects of our lives. The gas gauge on my car is pretty black and white,if it were instead gray, then I could atleast hope that I had enough to get me home. No gray on thermometers, amortizations, prices at the market because we need that information to make important decisions. The lack of need for black and white thinking is because no one is is able to make a decision at the moment based on the reality of the situation. Boundaries are blurred because fantasy is still involved. When/if this resolves and you two are together, you will once again become a fan of black and white thinking and have a need to know where you stand. WHAT?! Come on, is this for real? What world do you live in? Gas Gauge - Full tank (Black), empty tank (white), everything in between? GRAY. Thermometers - Hot (Black), Cold (white), everything in between? GRAY. Market price - High (Black), Low (white), everything in between? GRAY. Darlin', I hate to point it out to you but the world is FULL OF GRAY.
donnamaybe Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 You do realize that describing someone as "the LIFE of the party" is something of a left-handed compliment, at best? Usually these guys tend to be obnoxious loudmouths who always have to be the center of attention and drink too much. Perhaps that's why his wife seemed irritated with him--the guy probably acts like a jerk at these things, thinking of himself as the center of attention/"life of the party." No doubt his incredible reservoir of suavity and charm is what attracted you to him. Pretty easy for a guy like that to put on his "life of the party" face when he has two women dancing attendance on his every whim, all the while smiling into the face of the BS who he enjoys keeping his dirty secret from.
donnamaybe Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 Probably because he's getting sex from two women. Yeah, she makes it REALLY easy for him to want to end his M, eh?
26pointblue Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 That's not necessarily true. In my case, my husband loved me very much...he had other problems that contributed to his affair that had absolutely nothing to do with me, our marriage, or even the OW. My xMM's wife told me that he was having issues such as alcoholism, mid-life crises type stuff . . . a lot of the conversation seemed to me to be blame-shifting & refusing to hold him accountable for his own actions, but, I do believe she was right that the issue that made him cheat was within him, not about the marriage or anything she was or wasn't doing. In fact it always baffled me how xMM could cheat on her because she did everything for him & was the perfect model wife & mother [he agreed]. His issues with her was that she was too boring, nagging, controlling etc. . . . I guess this really translated into, she would give him a hard time for running away from his responsibilities & acting like a frat boy with me. Looking back I realized I enabled his bad behavior & bad treatment of us both just as much as she did. And that the issues weren't about me, or her, or the marriage or the affair as much as they were about him, inside him. He was bored being married & wanted to live the single life or a fun life with me without responsibilities . . . but he couldn't let go of the stable comforts of a long-term marriage & was afraid of ending up all alone, so, he just s^&t on his wife & on me & we both let him do that & it was the best of both worlds for him. In this way I think my xMM & Cable's MM are very similar. When she writes about hers I think of mine. And I do not hate him, I am hoping he is happy . . . but in retrospect he is not the kind of man I should want to be with anyway! And that is why I think people are trying to get Cable to see but she thinks we are being judgmental or whatever.
26pointblue Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 You do realize that describing someone as "the LIFE of the party" is something of a left-handed compliment, at best? Usually these guys tend to be obnoxious loudmouths who always have to be the center of attention and drink too much. Perhaps that's why his wife seemed irritated with him--the guy probably acts like a jerk at these things, thinking of himself as the center of attention/"life of the party." No doubt his incredible reservoir of suavity and charm is what attracted you to him. Yep, this is my xMM to a T! I was talking to a group of friends about a book we had all read -- the Glass Castle -- & the father in that memoir is an alcoholic. Some of us were wondering aloud how the mother could have chosen such a bad example of a person to have kids with, & why she stayed with him & such, & someone else said that alcoholics can be very charming & irristible & fun, especially at first. I'm not calling Cable's xMM an alcoholic but you could substitute the word 'narcissist' or 'person who likes to party' etc. . . . this type of guy that Cable describes, who is 'THE' life of the party & who likes all the attention & who would be comfortable with his wife & mistress together in one room . . . that person can be very charming & irresistable at first but ends up living an irresponsible & deceptive lifestyle, such as cheating!
Mme. Chaucer Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 Cabin, I asked earlier but perhaps my post got lost in the fray: Have you filed for your own divorce yet? Where are you and your husband with that process? Also, I wanted clarification: you mentioned that your AP (I appreciate that you refer to this man as your affair partner rather than "your" Married Man. That always rankles. Regardless of the state of a marriage, I do think that if a married person is anyone's, he or she is their spouse's) has told his wife he is leaving. And she is attending functions with him in an effort to work on the marriage. Is this true? Did he tell her that he is leaving to be with another woman? I mean, according to what he's shared with you? How do you feel about that (the fact that they're evidently "working on" their marriage)? Why is he living with her now, after having told her that their marriage is over?
26pointblue Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 WHAT?! Come on, is this for real? What world do you live in? Gas Gauge - Full tank (Black), empty tank (white), everything in between? GRAY. Thermometers - Hot (Black), Cold (white), everything in between? GRAY. Market price - High (Black), Low (white), everything in between? GRAY. Darlin', I hate to point it out to you but the world is FULL OF GRAY. Red light = stop. Green light = go. Yello light = danger, caution, slow down. Just as in real life, there are red flags & signs to look out for but if we want to spend time in the 'gray' zone [or too much time speeding through the yellow lights trying to beat them], we are going to run into danger & consequences.
LilyBart Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 That's not necessarily true. In my case, my husband loved me very much...he had other problems that contributed to his affair that had absolutely nothing to do with me, our marriage, or even the OW. I didn't say MM doesn't love his W. I said he doesn't love her "enough" to STOP the A. There's a difference. I cannot believe a 100% happy man, desparately in love with his W, cherishing the life he has with her because it was everything he ever dreamed of, would jepordize such happiness, love and life in any way, shape or form. But you can believe your truth and I will believe mine.
donnamaybe Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 I didn't say MM doesn't love his W. I said he doesn't love her "enough" to STOP the A. There's a difference. By the same token, he doesn't love the OW "enough" to STOP the M.
Emme Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 Cabin, opposites attract. After a while if you have the same personalities it leads to boredom.
LilyBart Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 Red light = stop. Green light = go. Yello light = danger, caution, slow down. Just as in real life, there are red flags & signs to look out for but if we want to spend time in the 'gray' zone [or too much time speeding through the yellow lights trying to beat them], we are going to run into danger & consequences. The topic brought up was things being BLACK & WHITE. It was not talking about traffic lights. I'm not saying your statement isn't valid but my point is: life is full of grays. And the examples given were incorrect.
Mme. Chaucer Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 I cannot believe a 100% happy man, desparately in love with his W, cherishing the life he has with her because it was everything he ever dreamed of, would jepordize such happiness, love and life in any way, shape or form. I don't believe he would, either. But, I also don't believe in "100% happy," "Desperately in love," and a relationship being "everything he (she) ever dreamed of." No, I am not a jaundiced cynic, or a person who has not experienced love of profound breadth and depth. In fact, it is this profundity that prevents real, lasting love from being accurately described by florid romantic clichés such as the ones I quoted from your post. You speak of love as if you are describing a Disney movie. Real, true love in a functioning relationship is a thing of flux. It's not going to "be everything we dreamed," because the true purpose of experiencing love is to LEARN and to GROW, not to have our fantasies validated. This is my deep seated belief. My point in all of this: People who require a one dimensional, Disney or romance novel - style relationship may be the very ones who are going to be incapable of sustaining an actual monogamous marriage. Maybe they are extremely predisposed to having EMA's for the simple reason that the ebbs and flows, lows and highs of deep and enduring relationships that happen within the construct of "real life" are not something that this type of person is capable of ... or interested in. From what I've read of Cabin's affair, it's sounding like her AP and she are in it for the thrills. I will be very surprised if there's any "100% happiness," "desperate love," or mind boggling long term dream fulfillment for any of the people in that particular story. In fact, with this dinner scenario, it's sounding a bit more sordid than most. And, FYI, I do realize that some EMA's result in lasting relationships between the former affair partners. Only if they both are firmly anchored in reality, though. Cabin, I do hope you are well on your own path to being single ... and that you do get what you want out of leaving your marriage. I don't think people are required to stay in unfulfilling marriages; also, I despise cheating. That said, I have done it, and other things I technically "despise" so I'm not as judgmental as I may come across. I don't think you'll be with this affair partner very long. And just so you know - you have presented him as an unappealing character.
Owl Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 My experience has taught me that life is just as "grey" as you want to make it. People who WANT grey see grey. If it suits their mindset, they see shades of grey, where others see black and white. Grey is awesome for avoiding responsibility and accountability for your actions. It's the great escape. It's the ultimate copout. "Shades of grey" simply means that you don't want to see the severity of the impact of your actions. You don't want to see black and white...so instead, it's all 'grey'...making your actions seem much more reasonable and tolerable. It's not black...it's just dark grey.
donnamaybe Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 You speak of love as if you are describing a Disney movie. Real, true love in a functioning relationship is a thing of flux. It's not going to "be everything we dreamed," because the true purpose of experiencing love is to LEARN and to GROW, not to have our fantasies validated. This is my deep seated belief.Wow. You nailed it.
Mimolicious Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) I didn't say MM doesn't love his W. I said he doesn't love her "enough" to STOP the A. There's a difference. I cannot believe a 100% happy man, desparately in love with his W, cherishing the life he has with her because it was everything he ever dreamed of, would jepordize such happiness, love and life in any way, shape or form. But you can believe your truth and I will believe mine. And you well know this goes the other way too... If someone doesn't love the person they are committed to, then why not go be with the one they really want to be with? Who would jeopardize (I thought I was being dyslexic for a minute...) such happiness? You sound and write just like TNYC... Wonder where she went?!?!? Edited June 21, 2011 by Mimolicious
bentnotbroken Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 My experience has taught me that life is just as "grey" as you want to make it. People who WANT grey see grey. If it suits their mindset, they see shades of grey, where others see black and white. Grey is awesome for avoiding responsibility and accountability for your actions. It's the great escape. It's the ultimate copout. "Shades of grey" simply means that you don't want to see the severity of the impact of your actions. You don't want to see black and white...so instead, it's all 'grey'...making your actions seem much more reasonable and tolerable. It's not black...it's just dark grey. :bunny::bunny:Yes!, Yes! and Yes!:bunny:
Spark1111 Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 Cabin......whether they are ill-suited for one another is irrelevent at this point. If you love this man more than your H than it is time to formulate a future together; an honest one, a kind one, one that lays all the cards on the table with your respective spouses and families. Don't they deserve love and happiness from a partner also? Why not? What are you two waiting for? Some affairs are about love; some are an escape from reality; some are about being desired and attended to when we feel neglected and unappreciated by out spouses. Some are about our own unresolved issues. Some are about punishing our spouse for not trying to make us feel as good, important and carefree as our AP does. You can ignore my opinion: Most men would rather have needles stuck in their eyes than have both their spouse and AP in the same room for an extended period of time. Your AP? He seemed to relish it. Please be very, very careful here. I sense, for reasons only known to him, that on some level, he is very, very, angry at his spouse. He wants to punish her for maybe not loving him "enough.". THAT scenario WAS humiliating for her. Absolutely no different than if YOU and his OOW, a woman you did not know existed, were at the same party and she was checking you out. But he knew. Remember, the absence of love is not hate. The absence of love is total indifference. His punishing behavior of her could indicate he may still have feelings for her. Tread carefully here.
OldOnTheInside Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 I only said it can be hard if the OP feels that way. I think posters are entitled to ignore any posts they wish. They may be missing out on useful viewpoints, or they may not. Hah, I go to sleep for a few hours and look what happens... Anyway, it would be beneficial for OP to keep an open mind. If she doesn't...that's her choice. Curious that some who advocate keeping an open mind, are often the most close minded of all (and yes, I appreciate the irony of that comment). All I meant.
OldOnTheInside Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) "Shades of grey" simply means that you don't want to see the severity of the impact of your actions. You don't want to see black and white...so instead, it's all 'grey'...making your actions seem much more reasonable and tolerable.Yes. One thing I have noticed is that when morality is brought into the equation at all, the only thing I ever see it do is either demonise the severity of the action to an unrealistic degree, wash away all flaws entirely until it seems saintly, or justify and rationalise an action with half-*ssed "logic". So absolute morality doesn't work, but neither does moral relativism. You're pretty much effed with whatever choice you make. IMO if you are involved in an affair...you are involved in an affair. Right or wrong, an affair is affair, and all the consequences and variables that come along with an affair. The reason that I think of affairs as unwise is that when one begins an affair, they open up a can of worms. And these worms can affect people who never made the conscious decision to be involved in the affair in the first place (I used the word "affair" a lot in that paragraph). Of course, my only experiences are as a BS and an unknowing OM. If I ever become a WH, my opinion may be changed. Edited June 21, 2011 by OldOnTheInside
MissBee Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 My experience has taught me that life is just as "grey" as you want to make it. People who WANT grey see grey. If it suits their mindset, they see shades of grey, where others see black and white. Grey is awesome for avoiding responsibility and accountability for your actions. It's the great escape. It's the ultimate copout. "Shades of grey" simply means that you don't want to see the severity of the impact of your actions. You don't want to see black and white...so instead, it's all 'grey'...making your actions seem much more reasonable and tolerable. It's not black...it's just dark grey. *Applause* Precisely.... Saying "Everyone's different", "You're assuming and generalizing" "Nothing is black and white"...all of those are accompanied by justifications for one's actions. We all do it...at different times, for different reasons...doesn't make it any less BS. We love to change the rules of the game when we're losing and want it to favor us.
jwi71 Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 Cabin......whether they are ill-suited for one another is irrelevent at this point. If you love this man more than your H than it is time to formulate a future together; an honest one, a kind one, one that lays all the cards on the table with your respective spouses and families. Don't they deserve love and happiness from a partner also? Why not? What are you two waiting for? Some affairs are about love; some are an escape from reality; some are about being desired and attended to when we feel neglected and unappreciated by out spouses. Some are about our own unresolved issues. Some are about punishing our spouse for not trying to make us feel as good, important and carefree as our AP does. You can ignore my opinion: Most men would rather have needles stuck in their eyes than have both their spouse and AP in the same room for an extended period of time. Your AP? He seemed to relish it. Please be very, very careful here. I sense, for reasons only known to him, that on some level, he is very, very, angry at his spouse. He wants to punish her for maybe not loving him "enough.". THAT scenario WAS humiliating for her. Absolutely no different than if YOU and his OOW, a woman you did not know existed, were at the same party and she was checking you out. But he knew. Remember, the absence of love is not hate. The absence of love is total indifference. His punishing behavior of her could indicate he may still have feelings for her. Tread carefully here. Spark, you will find Cabin is long on fantasy and short on action. I've asked this before in a previous thread and in this thread as well. Ignored. Each time. So my conclusion there is NO plan for Cabin to file for D nor for her MM to do so either. I think she was opining on lack of support at some point - but I may be wrong on that. Anyways, I think Im out as she isn't really looking for help or support in a meaningful fashion - as far as I can tell anyway.
Mme. Chaucer Posted June 22, 2011 Posted June 22, 2011 Is it true, Cabin? Are you just looking for people to join you in your fantasy? Or are you in action towards your divorce? Please answer.
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