BB07 Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 ^ Human nature isn't necessarily a good thing sometimes. We do some nasty things to others sometimes and we try to justify it, rationalize it but at the end of the day it's still all wrong.
bentnotbroken Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 ^ Human nature isn't necessarily a good thing sometimes. Indeed. Sad really. But so true.
TurboGirl Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 Cabin, First... I don't know how you sat there through dinner without being ill. The stress of that situation ALONE would have sent me to the ER with chest pains. Do you think it was fair and decent of your MM to put YOU and his W in that situation? Kinda not cool... Often people are with complete opposite personalities and are very happy. Maybe not to the outside observer. Perhaps he finds his alone time with his W relaxing when he doesn't have to be "on" -- remember, PLEASE you know only what your MM is telling you. They lie... do you think he would say to you No Way Am I Leaving My Wife, blah blah blah? He's playing it. He wants to keep his W and have you too. Sometimes I think it is better not to have that look into someones life, like you did. Puzzling, yes I know it is for you. However, he loved her enough to ask her to marry him at one point, and I suspect he still does love her or he would have left by now. Or he is still there WITH HER for a reason. Often people stay because they have loving great memories and are able to get beyond the "now" when the relationship isn't so great.
YellowShark Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 Anyways Cabin, I think it is natural for you to look at all the ways you and MM are compatible and how he and his wife are not. The term is called "confirmation bias." Unconsciously Cabin is confirming certain things that validate her affair and ignoring the other factors which don't validate the affair. She is not doing this maliciously, she is doing it because that is the way our brains work. That is why you often hear an OW/OM say, "Normally I would NEVER have done this this but..." Not an insult, or judgement, simply a fact about the human psyche.
OldOnTheInside Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 Screw your science and logic, YS. Anyway, it is unfortunate that "love" and "rationality" often don't mesh well together. Think about all those horror stories caused by the human heart...
Angelina527 Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 I'm not really sure what this means. I read all the posts I receive in response to my own. Unfortunately, I find most of the posts are written from the scorned BS or FOW perspective, which isn't exactly the point of having an OW/OM forum, so I just don't feel the need to respond. I certainly don't look for BS forums to post in. I don't know why the reverse is rampant here. Good advice is good advice...does it matter whether it comes out of an OW's or BS's mouth?
whichwayisup Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 Good advice is good advice...does it matter whether it comes out of an OW's or BS's mouth? True. And also, there are some people who pop in and reply and they are NOT part of an affair triangle, just someone who wants to help. so unless one knows anothers backstory or just assumes by the advice what side of the triangle they're on, whether it be a current OW or a former OW, a BS etc, shouldn't really matter. Hopefully what advise Cabin has chosen to ignore right now, might help her later down the road.
carrie999 Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 Cabin, I think I know what you are trying to say, but I also agree that a dinner party is not the example that showcases it. The fact that they were off that night means very little, but the fact that she showed up and actually stayed means she is doing something to fight for her marriage. I met my MM years ago at one of the multiple parties he and his wife throw every year. He has friends through work and other activities, but she doesn't. They went to college together and had a lot of mutual friends (including my sister and brother-in-law), and they try to hang onto those friendships because they don't have much else together. They are fantastic hosts, and always appear to be having a blast. What struck me long before I took up with MM was the fact that in the rare instances they were together, I felt like a ping pong ball. They'd start telling a story, and they'd talk at the same time, literally over eachother. At first, I thought they were cute, like an old married couple that shared everything. What I realized later (still long before the affair) was that even their shared experiences were very separate. They didn't live anything "together," and they hosted parties constantly to avoid recognizing that they didn't enjoy being alone with one another and were trying to fill that void. They were "Brenda and Eddie" in Billy Joel's classic "Scenes from an Italian Restaurant," but they survived past that first year where they peaked. Back to your situation, it sounds like the background speaks more than the one night you presented here. How couples interact is complicated and requires much more than a dinner party to analyze. Have you seen them together with all of your kids lately? Just as others here have warned me, don't be lulled into a false sense of security. She's obviously trying. My MM's wife knows *something* is wrong, so she's trying to fix the things that aren't the main problem. It sounds like his wife is doing the same.
MissBee Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) The term is called "confirmation bias." Unconsciously Cabin is confirming certain things that validate her affair and ignoring the other factors which don't validate the affair. She is not doing this maliciously, she is doing it because that is the way our brains work. That is why you often hear an OW/OM say, "Normally I would NEVER have done this this but..." Not an insult, or judgement, simply a fact about the human psyche. Yepps...and I think sometimes people forget that they are humans and they follow the normal patterns of human behavior, so you saying you aren't doing this that or the third is all fine and dandy, since even if you don't realize you're doing it, you still are. Which is why stepping back and being introspective is essential, as you can work yourself up to ignore reality and do some strange things and believe totally that it's fine or it's not faulty reasoning. Which was my point earlier in the thread about when people don't want to hear something, they pull the "You're assuming and generalizing" card to declare everything false...when it's like well generalizations do serve a purpose and as a human being your behavior can be analyzed using some general rules of human behavior and the psyche, albeit there will be nuances because of our unique situations, but nonetheless it starts with a fundamental concept that is the same for all. That is why I don't have to know you or your full situation to be able to deduce certain things off the bat. Edited June 21, 2011 by MissBee
2sunny Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 One thing I find troubling about posting on this forum is the way readers put words in the mouths of posters. I never indicated that I went to the party to spy, nor did I watch her every move or listen to her every word. At the risk of sounding rude to many of the posters here, I am finding that most conversations here involve a lot of gross generalizations, assumptions, and very black and white thinking. my "assumption about you watching her moves and paying close attention to his W was based on you OBVIOUSLY noticing what she was and wasn't DOING/SAYING throughout the evening... including but not limited to whether or not she even had a drink. it appears YOU are making assumptions about them and their interactions and there compatibility as well as their marriage. i am working from YOUR written words... so it's hardly deemed putting words in your mouth. it's also safe to say you were watching both of them very closely... close enough to make many generalizations and assumptions yourself. It was very interesting to observe the interactions between him and his W. She is very reserved/introverted and she doesn't drink. She spent most of the evening sitting quietly, looking downright bored to tears by the end of the evening. My AP is the LIFE of the party. It is such a weird mix. Hence, she stayed at the party all evening. They didn't speak to one another almost at all. When she did speak, it was to share sarcastic jabs about him with the group. I know I'm not going to be very objective on this one -- biased by my love for him -- but they are not well matched. we're both very animated and we both like to drink socially! but after what I saw last night, I don't see how he can possibly stay. the end result was = he still went home with her and they are still married. he must have enjoyed enough aspects of her - for he did actually marry her and has spent a good amount of years with her. just because a man has an AP - doesn't mean he doesn't love his W... whether he tells you that or not. right or wrong from your perspective... it seems completely cruel to attend these functions... nothing good could come from creating this situation. a sudden illness would be best ordered up next time.
Silly_Girl Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 She only acknowledges the views that she agrees with. It's quite a human reaction. Yep. "Take the advice you can use and leave the rest" is often quoted on here. Good for Cabin
Silly_Girl Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 Gotit, anytime anyone goes on even a support forum, they are subject to ridicule by someone. Absolutely not true. Yes it happens here but I know of other forums where that is not the case in any way, shape or form.
Silly_Girl Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 Good advice is good advice...does it matter whether it comes out of an OW's or BS's mouth? It is difficult to swallow even the most valuable advice when one feels they are being condemned by the source of it.
LilyBart Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 They'd start telling a story, and they'd talk at the same time, literally over eachother. At first, I thought they were cute, like an old married couple that shared everything. What I realized later (still long before the affair) was that even their shared experiences were very separate. They didn't live anything "together," and they hosted parties constantly to avoid recognizing that they didn't enjoy being alone with one another and were trying to fill that void. Interesting. And it sparked a memory of a couple I used to know. Together forever with a couple of kids. Except every weekend the house was filled with "people" - his friends, her friends, family, etc. As if they were afraid to be alone with each other and have "couple time". The kids totally helped the situation - something to concentrate and focus on instead of on each other. Note: all this happened after the H cheated and then the W (as an act of revenge). Oh and they're still M'd. But I would put money on the fact that it is not a happy M (but not horrible enough to D). The reason is because they never resolved the underlying issues that caused the A's in the first place.
LilyBart Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 just because a man has an AP - doesn't mean he doesn't love his W... whether he tells you that or not. But obviously he doesn't love his W "enough" to stop the A - does he? If he did, he wouldn't have engaged in an A to being with. So whether he loves his W or how much he loves his W, is pretty much a moot point.
OldOnTheInside Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 It is difficult to swallow even the most valuable advice when one feels they are being condemned by the source of it. So the solution is to condemn all BSs? Curious...
2sunny Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 But obviously he doesn't love his W "enough" to stop the A - does he? If he did, he wouldn't have engaged in an A to being with. So whether he loves his W or how much he loves his W, is pretty much a moot point. interesting you bring this up... doesn't matter which woman he may love - or love more - the only one he's really considering is his own selfish needs/wants. he loves himself more than either woman. both women are in a losing position being involved with such a selfish man.
Mme. Chaucer Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 Cabin - Have you filed for a divorce yet? How is all of that going? I read a thread of yours last month that plans for that were underway. And the AP has told his wife that they are done for? Has he filed for divorce? But she does not know that it's because of "another woman"? Just trying to get the story straight. It does sound like a horrible situation. I'm truly sorry for all involved.
Silly_Girl Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 So the solution is to condemn all BSs? Did someone suggest that then? Hope not.
OldOnTheInside Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 Did someone suggest that then? Hope not. Hmmm... It is difficult to swallow even the most valuable advice when one feels they are being condemned by the source of it. An OW condemns the words of a BS for seemingly condemning the actions of an OW who condemns... And what do we have? A pointless spiral of condemnation. Nothing is gained because pride gets in the way.
SoMovinOn Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 So the solution is to condemn all BSs? Curious... Not all. I'm a BS and I feel no need to berate anyone involved in an affair. I don't hold on to hurt like that. As a BS, if anything, I've spent more time beating myself up over being involved in an A.
OldOnTheInside Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) Not all. I'm a BS and I feel no need to berate anyone involved in an affair. I don't hold on to hurt like that. As a BS, if anything, I've spent more time beating myself up over being involved in an A. Many here don't have the experience of being a BS and a mAP. Just to let you know, with all the mudslinging here, your view is a curiously rare one. In fact, unlike many, you can accept criticism. Edited June 21, 2011 by OldOnTheInside
Silly_Girl Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 Hmmm... An OW condemns the words of a BS for seemingly condemning the actions of an OW who condemns... And what do we have? A pointless spiral of condemnation. Nothing is gained because pride gets in the way. Cabin included both OW and BS in her post. I didn't attach labels, you did. I said nothing about condemning the words of a BS....
OldOnTheInside Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) Cabin included both OW and BS in her post. I didn't attach labels, you did. I said nothing about condemning the words of a BS.... Well... It is difficult to swallow even the most valuable advice when one feels they are being condemned by the source of it. I can assume that "one" refers to the APs here. Feel free to correct me. Who is "the source of it" then? You are suggesting that "the source of it" is condemning your actions right? Edited June 21, 2011 by OldOnTheInside
Silly_Girl Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 Well... I can assume that "one" refers to the APs here. Who is "the source of it" then? You are suggesting that "the source of it" is condemning your actions right? 'One' = opening poster. 'Source of it' = the source of the advice, the posters who respond to the opening poster.
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