MissBee Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 He could have had the decency to fake explosive diarrhea and stay home. Come to think of it, what kind of person goes to a dinner party with his wife AND his OW, and is relaxed enough to be the life of the party? Does he have no concience at all? Sounds like he got a thrill out of the situation Yepps.... That's what I'm saying, that whole thing would make me wanna throw up. If a man wants me to have an affair with him, the last thing he should do is that...I would be sickened and there is NO way I would ever be able to dote on him and think him so great or even trust him after that.
MissBee Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 This is about the 500th post I've read where the OW makes, IMO, grossly biassed judgments about the W, and how defective she is - socially, emotionally, and in many other ways. Yet the OW has very little accurate data (other than the words of her proved liar/lover, the MM) and typically overinterprets or misinterprets everything she has. Example: W is "reserved/introverted", and sarcastic towards her H. Hence she is the problem in the marriage and you (OP) are the solution because you're a charming extrovert like MM. To me, like most others above, a much likelier explanation for the W's lack of gaiety is either the suspicion her H is having an affair, or the side effects of all the negativity the MM/AP has been hurling at the W. Of course, we don't know with certainty that the H needles and berates and ignores the W in private....we're just speculating, because that is such a common pattern in affairs. (The MM would never admit this to OW, and in fact he may be so out of touch with reality he can't even perceive it himself.) If the OP and MM are such a great pair, they should just divorce the people they're deceiving and be together. (Why not?) Then maybe OW can understand things from the perspective of a (B)W. BTW, for those who are interested, I am not now and have never been an OW or a BS (AFAIK). Great post!
Author Cabin Posted June 20, 2011 Author Posted June 20, 2011 Anyone else notice that Cabin never responds to something she doesn't want to hear, I think she has some of us on ignore. I'm not really sure what this means. I read all the posts I receive in response to my own. Unfortunately, I find most of the posts are written from the scorned BS or FOW perspective, which isn't exactly the point of having an OW/OM forum, so I just don't feel the need to respond. I certainly don't look for BS forums to post in. I don't know why the reverse is rampant here.
Author Cabin Posted June 20, 2011 Author Posted June 20, 2011 everyone on ignore? then why post? i am having a hard time understanding how any woman can be this mean - to go to a diner party with intent to spy on his W for the whole evening... watching her every move, listening to what she does or doesn't say. the way you participated in the evening is very creepy to me. One thing I find troubling about posting on this forum is the way readers put words in the mouths of posters. I never indicated that I went to the party to spy, nor did I watch her every move or listen to her every word. I went to a party I was invited to -- as I have mentioned, we share social circles and it would be more telling not to go --and then I posted some general observations I made in the context of one evening. At the risk of sounding rude to many of the posters here, I am finding that most conversations here involve a lot of gross generalizations, assumptions, and very black and white thinking. I guess I am interested in engaging conversations with people who can offer empathy and critical thought, without having to resort to very simplistic understandings of humans and their hearts.
MissBee Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 This sounds a lot like my xMM. This has happened to me [i knew his wife before we got involved in an affair]. It was like he enjoyed putting us both together & yes he was always the life of the party. Awhile ago, I was thinking back to something that had happened one time after we had broken up but were starting to get back together. He was at a wedding with his wife & she got ahold of his phone [or he showed it to her . . . not sure now] & saw our texts & started texting me mean texts from his phone. At the time, sadly, I felt bad for her because I felt like aww she has no idea we are back on again & she thinks we are done & that she has 'won' him. I felt superior. But now looking back I see that hello, I was not superior . . . he was at a wedding with her, letting her text me from his phone! At one point he texted me 'sorry, [bS] has my phone!!!!!' but then she kept texting me from it. He said it was her & his sister. I asked him later why he didn't take the phone back- wasn't he scared I would tell her more than she knew & he'd be in trouble?- & he said he didn't want to make her mad & he knew/hoped I wouldn't say anything bad. Looking back I realize he had me right where he wanted me - the subserviant OW who would never rat him out & play along with his games, & I think he got a kick out of seeing what we wrote to each other. She was writing me some very mean things & I understood it & tried to be civil in my responses but of course they hurt . . . & looking back I felt hurt that he let her send me mean things while all the while telling me he loved me & wanted to be with me, not her. I see now that if he truly loved either of us he wouldn't have put us in that position. And if I were a stronger, better person back then, I never would have allowed myself to be put in that position! Cabin I fear you are in great denial & fail to see that your MM is a jerk & is never going to leave his wife. All the while you are rolling in the mud with him. This won't end well, it happened to me . . . deservedly so. I'm Jamaican (I live in the US now though), and what you've said is actually a perfect example of the Jamaican culture with regards to relationships. In the U.S. it's like this too to an extent but in popular Jamaican culture it is more apparent. It is almost an accepted fact that men cheat, such is life, you work around it (I however do not buy that and live my life differently but I digress). What happens is that there is wifey (the wife or the legitimate girlfriend) and matey (the mistress or OW). There are codes of conduct for your position...most of the rules are applied only to the "matey". Many women vie for the wifey role as that is considered as being #1, you are the "Queen" of the castle and they feel superior because they have a level of power that the OW/matey doesn't have. There are even songs talking about how OW are "unpaid helpers" who "shine and polish" their men when they [the wifey] are not around. Women brag and boast and speak of this openly! They openly realize OW exist but look down on them as idiots. They're other songs and cultural expressions telling men to train their OW and make sure she doesn't disrespect the wife.... While the whole thing is absurd, on the wife's end as well as the OW and the men are the happy, fat cats in all this ...it spoke to what you just said about how you were indeed not superior as you felt and although the whole thing is a mess, the MM was the only one who could brag and boast while you both looked like pawns in his game...except the wife one upped you a bit but nonetheless was just as ridiculous.
Author Cabin Posted June 20, 2011 Author Posted June 20, 2011 The point is, you can see what you want to see from the dinner party, but in all honesty, who cares, who did her go home with when the party was over? That's who he is choosing to go home with!! Oh, bring on the wrath people but if this logic works to say "if he went home with his wife then he's choosing her", it works the other way around too... and they went home separately.
anne1707 Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 OK OP you are complaining about BS or former OW posting on your thread. I was a WS and there is no way on this lifetime that I would ever have sunk so low to have done what your MM has done to his wife and to you by setting you both up to be at dinner together. It is so incredibly low, selfish, cruel, sadistic... do you want me to continue? He is playing games and wants to see how you react. Nasty.
Author Cabin Posted June 20, 2011 Author Posted June 20, 2011 What amazes me is the characteristics that you pick out of compartibility... . Just to clarify, the items of compatibility that I discussed in this post refer only to the context of the dinner party: similar personalities and social "rhythms", you know? But that is NOT an exhaustive list of how we are compatible. It's just one of many many important ways where we "fit". I don't think I implied that because we share social behaviours that that will be enough to sustain us. I was speaking strictly about the party. IRL, we run parallel on many professional and personal pursuits.
YellowShark Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 I guess I am interested in engaging conversations with people who can offer empathy and critical thought, without having to resort to very simplistic understandings of humans and their hearts. Here's the reality Cabin. Your "soul mate" is cheating on his wife. He is also dragging his own children into an emotional blender once this all is exposed. You will be painted in a very bad light at the end of the day. You will be labeled a home-wrecker and your children and his children may be very hurt as well. Additionally the social group will not be impressed with you or MM and at the end of the day. You might end up with MM, but then can you ever be sure he will not end up doing the very same thing to you eventually? (cheat) I am not here to judge you, only wave a flag and say hit the brakes. If he really wants to be with you he will not make excuses why he can't be with you, he will ACT to be with you. If I was you I would walk away, save yourself and everyone else from the disaster that is coming. As painful as it might be you deserve better than a man who can comfortably sit at the same table with his wife and mistress. It's so toxic and unhealthy. Just my 2 cents.
whichwayisup Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 OK OP you are complaining about BS or former OW posting on your thread. I was a WS and there is no way on this lifetime that I would ever have sunk so low to have done what your MM has done to his wife and to you by setting you both up to be at dinner together. It is so incredibly low, selfish, cruel, sadistic... do you want me to continue? He is playing games and wants to see how you react. Nasty. Actually I completely agree with this. And I wouldn't have gone and I wouldn't have cared HOW it looked. Would've said I was sick with the flu bug or said there was a family emergency. As for the OW/BS/Former OW who have posted to you, what they say makes sense, and it's sad that you see it one way -- Your way and aren't open at all to other points of view, atleast a slim possibilty that one or two people on here actually do understand and are giving you support..Maybe not the hand holding and empathy/sympathy you think you deserve, but still, it's good advice.
Spark1111 Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 One thing I find troubling about posting on this forum is the way readers put words in the mouths of posters. I never indicated that I went to the party to spy, nor did I watch her every move or listen to her every word. I went to a party I was invited to -- as I have mentioned, we share social circles and it would be more telling not to go --and then I posted some general observations I made in the context of one evening. At the risk of sounding rude to many of the posters here, I am finding that most conversations here involve a lot of gross generalizations, assumptions, and very black and white thinking. I guess I am interested in engaging conversations with people who can offer empathy and critical thought, without having to resort to very simplistic understandings of humans and their hearts. What exactly are you looking for in terms of empathy and critical thought? Is there more to the story? Who should we empathize with? You? Your MM? Because right now, if I assess this correctly, most of the posters want to throw up at the thought of two MAPs, who work and know each other's spouses and hang together, are at the same dinner party where one has concluded she is just such a better fit than the spouse who knows NOTHING about her H's affair and theat she knows and socializes with this AP (you) unawares. Did you expect us to agree that this poor MM is one helluva a fun guy, and his BS just doesn't appreciate him as much as you do? That you and he are such a better fit together, personality-wise? So, what exactly, in the name of empathy and critical thought were you seeking? Agreement that your perception is correct? If it is correct, what ARE THE TWO of you waiting for? Announce to your spouses that you have found your soulmates, and set them free. What is it exactly that holds you two back from moving forward?
MissBee Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 (edited) I'm not really sure what this means. I read all the posts I receive in response to my own. Unfortunately, I find most of the posts are written from the scorned BS or FOW perspective, which isn't exactly the point of having an OW/OM forum, so I just don't feel the need to respond. I certainly don't look for BS forums to post in. I don't know why the reverse is rampant here. I get what you're saying, but from what I gather, there are probably forums out there dedicated to giving support in terms of positive reinforcement in the whole affair situation and for OW/OM only to gather and encourage each other in the situation, as well as to give tips and things of that nature for those wanting to stay in the situation. I do not think that support means commiserating and applauding. I also haven't seen it stated that the LS OW/OM forum is for the purpose of giving tips on staying in the situation and for only those currently in the situation to gather. It's a forum where all people who have been affected, whether they are FOW, current, BS, etc. can gather and have varying dialogues from their perspective and vantage point. With that in mind, I don't think it is fair to expect that most people aren't going to have strong opposition and it won't be a series of kumbayahs. Many people think something is fundamentally wrong with infidelity and therefore it is absurd to believe that people would have no harsh criticisms unless the mission statement of the forum is along the lines of "A group for those who believe infidelity is simply an alternative lifestyle". In that case, the opposition would be uncalled for and those folks would need to find some other forum. Anyway, I have had other conversations with you on LS and you are indeed an intelligent woman. I saw you say something about people seeing things in black and white and simplifying human emotions etc. Does that happen? Yes it does...but also, I think that there are things in life that are indeed black and white; however choosing grey is advantageous to us sometimes. I also find that people like to proclaim being unique or things being complicated or accuse others of generalizing, when the reality is that human behavior, while complex stems from certain accepted general principles. Most times people say such things so as to not get judged for their situation.Each individual and his/her situation is nuanced and unique as various things color it, of course, but most situations, affairs being one, can often be stripped down to the bare general bones of things that are applicable to all people calling themselves humans. Assumptions and generalizations have to be made in life and serve a purpose and are a schema from which one can process the world and understand how things operate. The problem is, if in light of different findings, you cannot get over your former assumptions. Often in affairs for example, as much as people protest, their situation still follows the general findings and what is generally true. I can understand from both sides of the fence, your desire for support and being met with harsh criticism and of course some people do get rude (but come on....it has to be expected). The extra rude folks though need to control themselves as that is unacceptable as well. You can disagree and tell your truth without resorting to certain things. I think though that the kind of forum LS is...if you don't want to be slapped by reality or hear dissension, you have to just go to a forum specially made for OW/OM to stay in the situation, in other words, a sympathetic forum, which is different from an empathetic one. You can empathize with an alcoholic, for example, but you don't sympathize and commiserate and offer him more alcohol. If it is not that kind of forum...which LS is not....then you're gonna hear it all. Edited June 20, 2011 by MissBee
Spark1111 Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 PS Cabin.... The fOW in my sitch thought she was such a better fit for my H, that she went out of her way to be his one true supportive love, even when unasked. She showed up at my FIL's funeral to support H and absolutely snubbed me. I thought she was deaf! Even the OW on this board were appalled by her actions. I mean, where do you draw the line? If it becomes increasingly difficult to keep your relationship secret, then give everyone a break and stop doing so. Your stbxH and your children will respect the both of you soooo much more if you just come clean and make the break. What is the hold up in doing so?
BB07 Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 Wow cabin gifted us simplistic scorned people who only see things in black and white with a reply. I feel so lucky!
whichwayisup Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 I find most of the posts are written from the scorned BS or FOW perspective, which isn't exactly the point of having an OW/OM forum, so I just don't feel the need to respond So only happy OW are allowed to reply and post in this forum? ONE point of view and mindset? You know, there is a private OW forum that someone on here created, maybe that's the type of support you need.
waytogo Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 I'm not really sure what this means. I read all the posts I receive in response to my own. Unfortunately, I find most of the posts are written from the scorned BS or FOW perspective, which isn't exactly the point of having an OW/OM forum, so I just don't feel the need to respond. I certainly don't look for BS forums to post in. I don't know why the reverse is rampant here. If I may say Cabin, it might especially be worth considering the thoughts of a FOW. I happened not to have been burned by xMM, but feel more burned by myself. We'll put that aside as this is your thread. It does seem callous that the MM you are with could have such a great extroverted time with both BW and OW in the same room. IMO a 'torn' man couldn't do that. It does sound as if he relishes having a sure, sure as it gets anyway, commited partner and a side partner in the same place. You felt you had to go, so you went. You've posted something like, you only made some casual observatations about them. Maybe that's possible, but human nature would suggest otherwise. Example, if I were newly dating a person and there was some one else at a pary my interest used to date, I'd be on alert of any glances or interaction between them. If I had involvement with someone who was single, but known to show with one particular person at events, I'd been on major high alert to each of their actions and interactions. Your post was about studying them to some level. You are annoyed at how some are studying your post of your reaction to being in that setting. Bet BW would be annoyed at your conclusions of how they interact based on that evening.
OldOnTheInside Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 So only happy OW are allowed to reply and post in this forum? ONE point of view and mindset? You know, there is a private OW forum that someone on here created, maybe that's the type of support you need. She only acknowledges the views that she agrees with. It's quite a human reaction.
Got it Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 What exactly are you looking for in terms of empathy and critical thought? Is there more to the story? Who should we empathize with? You? Your MM? Because right now, if I assess this correctly, most of the posters want to throw up at the thought of two MAPs, who work and know each other's spouses and hang together, are at the same dinner party where one has concluded she is just such a better fit than the spouse who knows NOTHING about her H's affair and theat she knows and socializes with this AP (you) unawares. Did you expect us to agree that this poor MM is one helluva a fun guy, and his BS just doesn't appreciate him as much as you do? That you and he are such a better fit together, personality-wise? So, what exactly, in the name of empathy and critical thought were you seeking? Agreement that your perception is correct? If it is correct, what ARE THE TWO of you waiting for? Announce to your spouses that you have found your soulmates, and set them free. What is it exactly that holds you two back from moving forward? You are right, why on EARTH would we support the OP on the Other Man/Other Woman forum? What a crazy idea.
Got it Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 So only happy OW are allowed to reply and post in this forum? ONE point of view and mindset? You know, there is a private OW forum that someone on here created, maybe that's the type of support you need. I agree, if that can't be done here, then the sites with protected forums that allow the OP to be able to feel comfortable, supported, and not ridiculed.
bentnotbroken Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 I'm not really sure what this means. I read all the posts I receive in response to my own. Unfortunately, I find most of the posts are written from the scorned BS or FOW perspective, which isn't exactly the point of having an OW/OM forum, so I just don't feel the need to respond. I certainly don't look for BS forums to post in. I don't know why the reverse is rampant here. Ahhh........
OldOnTheInside Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) I agree, if that can't be done here, then the sites with protected forums that allow the OP to be able to feel comfortable, supported, and not ridiculed. A closed mind is an ignorant mind, from whatever position of the affair dynamic one stands (so yes, this goes for the BSs and fOWs too, the "enemy", so to speak). If an individual is incapable of understanding and accepting a reasonable opposing view, what have they learnt beyond only what they are capable of seeing? Support and blind praise don't neccessarily have to go hand in hand. Again, this attitude discourages posters from leaving their comfort zone and seeing the other side. I find it curious that those who proclaim grey morality often shut down the "opposition". Having said that, this is the internet. Nothing is stopping the OWs from migrating to another site but themselves. Edited June 21, 2011 by OldOnTheInside
waytogo Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 I agree, if that can't be done here, then the sites with protected forums that allow the OP to be able to feel comfortable, supported, and not ridiculed. Gotit, anytime anyone goes on even a support forum, they are subject to ridicule by someone. I believe other perspectives can be helpful in any situation. The OP may be a FOW sooner than she thinks now. She may be a BW with this man or another in the future. Every perspective she hears along the way may help her now or later. I am a FOW. I wasn't burned or thrown under the bus or woke up in a bowl of puke or many things people think have happened to FOWS. I have some hindsight after A. xMM did incourage me to be around events where I would be silently in the distance. Even at that time, that was more disrespect than even I could show his W. I didn't even realize at the time how disrespectful that would be to myself. The answer was no. Same answer to going to his home. Best insurance would be, I'd duck in the car to get through the neighborhood to the garage. Never would I duck in anyone's cars to spend a weekend with any man. Answer again, NO. If they are going some place in the future, party situations like this should not be happening. The W is just as much a human as Cabin. Why should she be at a party, thinking of herself as her own H's date to have anyone else there deciding why she is a bad match to her H of a decade? Why can't the question be asked, "If your MM wants you so much, why does any and every excuse take him back to what he created as home with another?" Men with children DO divorce when the M is dead enough. I'll admit I don't have stats, but have seen many men cry finance when they aren't bringing the $ to the table. A W who earns more does not get spouse support. She may even have to pay even a WH. An OW, MM, BW, WW, BH, OM, FOW, FOM all have these same realities to confront if they either choose or find themselves in the situation. Why shouldn't people in different stages offer what they've learned from experience?
awkward Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 If she posted this same story on the TOW forum, I'm not sure that she would get totally different responses. Her MM never should have put his wife or his OW in that situation. It is disrespectful to both of them. Anyways Cabin, I think it is natural for you to look at all the ways you and MM are compatible and how he and his wife are not. It was probably exciting to get a glimpse of his real life. I think though when it is all over whether you end up married to him or decide to move on, later you'll probably look back at this event and realize that it was a poor decision to attend. Try to remember that all your seeing is just a glimpse. You seem level headed. I really do think you will regret this social gathering at a later date.
BB07 Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 She only acknowledges the views that she agrees with. It's quite a human reaction. It is human and it's human nature to try to shut down what you don't want to hear by becoming defensive and ridiculing of those opinions that something inside of you is saying ummmm they may have a point here. This situation Cabin is in is being handled in one of the worst ways and that's what gets everyone going and I might be wrong but Cabin is married too and I don't recall if she mentioned if her husband went also or not and I wonder if he did. It's a twisted dynamic and it repulses people which is normal......and I stand by that statement.
OldOnTheInside Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 ^ Human nature isn't necessarily a good thing sometimes.
Recommended Posts