Cabin Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 So last night I attended a small dinner party (8 people) and my AP and W were there. In the days leading up to it, I was nervous, but there was no real excuse to get out of it. We are all in the same profession, and the hostess is a mutual friend (obviously) who knows that there is chemistry between us, though she doesn't know that we're in a relationship. It was very interesting to observe the interactions between him and his W. She is very reserved/introverted and she doesn't drink. She spent most of the evening sitting quietly, looking downright bored to tears by the end of the evening. My AP is the LIFE of the party. It is such a weird mix. Normally she would not join him at dinner parties like that, or if she did, she'd leave right after dinner. They've been living like that for nearly 10 years. He "behaves" while she is there for a meal, then has fun when she leaves. How unsatisfying! Anyway, ever since he told her he wants to end their relationship, she's been trying harder to make him happy and do the things he wants to do. Hence, she stayed at the party all evening. They didn't speak to one another almost at all. When she did speak, it was to share sarcastic jabs about him with the group. I know I'm not going to be very objective on this one -- biased by my love for him -- but they are not well matched. He and I are very similar in that we both like social gatherings, we are both extroverts, we both like to be active in conversations, we're both very animated and we both like to drink socially! I know he is not going to leave his M unless they come to some amicable understanding about shared custody and not putting the kids through a tug game... but after what I saw last night, I don't see how he can possibly stay. Anyway, just thought i'd share.
YellowShark Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 I am not here to judge you Cabin but wow. How could you even go to a dinner with a man - (and wife!) - who is throwing his wife under a bus and cheating with you. Not to mention children are involved. That is in very bad taste. Additionally you are really trying to find justifications for why "she" isn't right for him. Which is called confirmation bias. Put it this way, she is so "wrong" for him he married her and had kids with her. (sarcasm) I would advise you to walk away and find a SINGLE man who can devote himself to you 100% rather than one who can betray his wife and children. You might find that much less awkward and rewarding. Think about it.
Author Cabin Posted June 19, 2011 Author Posted June 19, 2011 Put it this way, she is so "wrong" for him he married her and had kids with her. (sarcasm) Thanks for the reply. It's a good point you're making. Sometimes it isn't so much that the person was the "wrong" person, but that they don't stay the "right" person with time. My H was "right" for me in my early 20s, but not now, some ten years later.
MissBee Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 I wonder if he really told her he wanted out... I wonder how you sit at a dinner with a man and his wife and not feel like you want to vomit and not bother with the whole thing... I wonder if people realize relationships are about complement, which doesn't mean you need to be the same temperament and like the same things as the person. Anyway, real, sustaining, healthy relationships take enough work as is, much less adding the factor of a man with a wife and kids and life outside of our "relationship". I'd rather not stack the odds against me from jump...but hey that's just me. As to the original post...I guess you were just sharing your thoughts, so there's not much to be said. Except the things I did say are what immediately came to my mind.
BB07 Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 I read your post Cabin and I see a whole lot of rationalizations as to how you and he fit better than him and her aided by what he tells you I'm sure. True or not........it doesn't matter, he was with her. BTW.......I don't get the what I would call sick fascination into getting that peek into their life and I call bs on not being able to get yourself excused from it. You wanted to see it.........at least own it. You got a peek, just a peek into their life and really at the end of the day what does it matter, he is with her which obviously he chooses to be. So what are you going to do about what you saw?
YellowShark Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 (edited) Thanks for the reply. It's a good point you're making. Sometimes it isn't so much that the person was the "wrong" person, but that they don't stay the "right" person with time. My H was "right" for me in my early 20s, but not now, some ten years later. I totally agree. People can change over time. Happened to me too. But a good way to look at this whole scenario is to switch shoes for a second. Let's say you are MM's wife at this dinner party, and sitting across the table from you is a woman who is banging your husband behind your back. In her head she is also thinking about all the ways "you" are wrong for him. Does that sound healthy in any way Cabin? Would you like this type of woman? Edited June 19, 2011 by YellowShark spelling... cuz I suck at it!
woinlove Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 From your earlier posts, Cabin, I recall you said you've met each other's families, had your children play together, and, here, you've socialized with him and his W together and you share mutual friends. I understand you are both trying to end your marriages without revealing your affair. How do you plan to make that transition? Will you hide for a while after the 2 divorces and then come out in the open at a later date? That seems rather tricky with all the mutual contacts and with children involved.
MissBee Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 I read your post Cabin and I see a whole lot of rationalizations as to how you and he fit better than him and her aided by what he tells you I'm sure. True or not........it doesn't matter, he was with her. BTW.......I don't get the what I would call sick fascination into getting that peek into their life and I call bs on not being able to get yourself excused from it. You wanted to see it.........at least own it. You got a peek, just a peek into their life and really at the end of the day what does it matter, he is with her which obviously he chooses to be. So what are you going to do about what you saw? I don't get it either! When I was an OW (to a man with a longterm gf)...I did everything to hide the facts from myself, because once certain things were blatantly in my face...it sickened me and each thing brought me to a harsh slap of what REALLY was versus the fantasy and half-truths and sandcastles in the sky I built around us. I tried to erase her and forget that she existed...which didn't work...but as much as I could avoid that part of the equation, I did, it was the only way I could continue the situation. So when I hear about the OW seeing a man with his wife, or being at an event together with them or one poster saying "My boyfriend's wife" all willy nilly...I truly do a double and triple take like, "Say what now???" How do you do that? Like I understand when you ignore it and avoid it and work around it, but I don't understand how you own it in one sense and still carry on....but it's still a deeper form of denial and rationalization I suppose, just one I wasn't prepared to handle. But I suppose I have done crazy things as well, but it's only in hindsight or when looking at someone else doing it do you see the reality of it clear as day and it's usually not a pretty picture.
woinlove Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 I know he is not going to leave his M unless they come to some amicable understanding about shared custody and not putting the kids through a tug game... but after what I saw last night, I don't see how he can possibly stay. Here's how he could possibly stay: They've been living like that for nearly 10 years. By doing whatever he's been doing for 10 years.
Author Cabin Posted June 19, 2011 Author Posted June 19, 2011 From your earlier posts, Cabin, I recall you said you've met each other's families, had your children play together, and, here, you've socialized with him and his W together and you share mutual friends. I understand you are both trying to end your marriages without revealing your affair. How do you plan to make that transition? Will you hide for a while after the 2 divorces and then come out in the open at a later date? That seems rather tricky with all the mutual contacts and with children involved. Yes -- our families have interacted and we do have several instances of overlap between our family and social lives -- that was true before he and I ever developed feelings for one another. This isn't the first time I've been in social situations with his W, or he with my H. Last night's dinner was just a first "adults only" affair (pun intended!) where the kids weren't there to create distraction. It's tricky, all right. We are hoping to create distance and time after our divorces to be on our own before coming out. He is starting to wonder if he needs to just level with her about me and what has happened. We need to have good relationships with our spouses because we will be raising children with them for many more years. We'd like to be able to continue to interact all of us together... it might seem idealist, I realize. I know this situation ain't pretty - and I know there are many people who are probably infuriated when they read stories like mine.
bentnotbroken Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 Yes -- our families have interacted and we do have several instances of overlap between our family and social lives -- that was true before he and I ever developed feelings for one another. This isn't the first time I've been in social situations with his W, or he with my H. Last night's dinner was just a first "adults only" affair (pun intended!) where the kids weren't there to create distraction. It's tricky, all right. We are hoping to create distance and time after our divorces to be on our own before coming out. He is starting to wonder if he needs to just level with her about me and what has happened. We need to have good relationships with our spouses because we will be raising children with them for many more years. We'd like to be able to continue to interact all of us together... it might seem idealist, I realize. I know this situation ain't pretty - and I know there are many people who are probably infuriated when they read stories like mine. Infuriated no...disgusted that people could be so cruel to others they have children with and set up their lives for them. Without giving them the opportunity to decide things for themselves including how they should feel about having AP in the lives of their children. This would have been the reason I went to jail..had it come to bear.
Author Cabin Posted June 19, 2011 Author Posted June 19, 2011 Here's how he could possibly stay: By doing whatever he's been doing for 10 years. It's a great point. He and I have talked about it... he could have kept going not knowing what he DIDN'T have, but now that he knows, he said he can't put the blinders on again. If he feels like he MUST stay in his marriage, it will be with the haunting knowledge of what he doesn't have. His MC mentioned to him that whatever they've been doing for the last 10 years won't sustain them: separate social lives, never spending time together... but the MC also said that it's pretty "telling" that they never spend time together. I'm in the similar boat as him... with my H for ten years now, but had no idea what I didn't have until I HAD it! Now I can't "un-know" what it feels like to be with someone so much more fitting for me.
Lucky_One Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 Keep in mind that there are many people who don't WANT a partner to be their type. People who are extroverts very often like having introverts as partners; there is no one to share the spotlight with, there is no one to take away from your being able to lead the anecdotes, there is someone who is there in the background as support for you but doesn't take away from the attention that the extrovert requires. People tend to look for foils, not for another potato stamping of their own self.
xxoo Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 Normally she would not join him at dinner parties like that, or if she did, she'd leave right after dinner. They've been living like that for nearly 10 years. He "behaves" while she is there for a meal, then has fun when she leaves. How unsatisfying! . They may have an unsatisfying relationship. Or, they may just not enjoy dinner parties together. There is a lot more to life than dinner parties! As an introvert married to an extrovert, I agree with what Lucky_one said above. Many people seek partners who complement them, rather than mirror them, and the balance works well (esp as parents we've found the balance to be advantageous). Judging me, or our relationship, based on a dinner party would not tell you much about our marriage. Two extroverts might appear very happy at a dinner party together (both in their element!), but be absolutely miserable at home together.
jj33 Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 (edited) So last night I attended a small dinner party (8 people) and my AP and W were there. In the days leading up to it, I was nervous, but there was no real excuse to get out of it. We are all in the same profession, and the hostess is a mutual friend (obviously) who knows that there is chemistry between us, though she doesn't know that we're in a relationship. It was very interesting to observe the interactions between him and his W. She is very reserved/introverted and she doesn't drink. She spent most of the evening sitting quietly, looking downright bored to tears by the end of the evening. My AP is the LIFE of the party. It is such a weird mix. Normally she would not join him at dinner parties like that, or if she did, she'd leave right after dinner. They've been living like that for nearly 10 years. He "behaves" while she is there for a meal, then has fun when she leaves. How unsatisfying! Anyway, ever since he told her he wants to end their relationship, she's been trying harder to make him happy and do the things he wants to do. Hence, she stayed at the party all evening. They didn't speak to one another almost at all. When she did speak, it was to share sarcastic jabs about him with the group. I know I'm not going to be very objective on this one -- biased by my love for him -- but they are not well matched. He and I are very similar in that we both like social gatherings, we are both extroverts, we both like to be active in conversations, we're both very animated and we both like to drink socially! I know he is not going to leave his M unless they come to some amicable understanding about shared custody and not putting the kids through a tug game... but after what I saw last night, I don't see how he can possibly stay. Anyway, just thought i'd share. Cabin I had a very similar experience when I was out with xMM and his W. It was dreadful. She was awful to him and all I could think is go be crazy with each other. I was embarrassed to witness it. I dont know how you felt about it but all I could think is she is treating you like DIRT and yet there you are you must like it that way. Couple of things. Are you SURE he told her he wants out? Has he contacted an attorney? Taken steps etc? (if youve posted that elsewhere my apologies) Because if she is coming to business dinners and he is allowing her to be there when it would obviously make you uncomfortable that is not a good sign. On the other hand it is apparently not unusual for a man to engineer a situation where the OW and the W are in the same place when he is making up his mind (kind of like comparing cars as sad as that sounds at least that is what a psychologist told me) so who knows. But for what I was told it would concern me. In my case its been over for years so its meaningless. When we were he made sure we were never in the same place because he knew it would upset me. I would be pissed at him for allowing her to come if he has told her he is leaving. Working out the details is fine but its over no more reason for her to come for business dinners. Edited June 19, 2011 by jj33
MissBee Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 They may have an unsatisfying relationship. Or, they may just not enjoy dinner parties together. There is a lot more to life than dinner parties! As an introvert married to an extrovert, I agree with what Lucky_one said above. Many people seek partners who complement them, rather than mirror them, and the balance works well (esp as parents we've found the balance to be advantageous). Judging me, or our relationship, based on a dinner party would not tell you much about our marriage. Two extroverts might appear very happy at a dinner party together (both in their element!), but be absolutely miserable at home together. So very true! I am an extrovert and prefer men that are not the life of the party and who are more reserved. I like the strong, silent and observing type. Well maybe not silent! I prefer an unassuming man who exudes an understated but apparent confidence who doesn't have to be out and about and extra social like I am. That quite turns me on! Especially when I know that behind closed doors with me he is funny, witty, more talkative, virile and the lot, that would never be guessed when we're out in public interacting. It's a wonderful complement for me and one perk of partnership is to have someone who is the yin to your yang and vice-versa.
Minnie09 Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 How very sad for the W! How humiliating... The fact that she didn't talk much and seemed boring might be due to him telling her he wanted to end his M with her. She might not be herself at the moment, as a result of all the emotional stress she's been through. And yes, being sarcastic about the H might be her only way to express her anxiety and sadness about him and her M. And all that with you sitting there watching, while he is the star of the party...... Wow. He doesn't seem very compassionate to me. She's the mother of his offspring and he's married to her, after all. And you probably felt superior to her on top of that. I don't want to judge you, and I understand the ego-boost and the thrill that a situation like that might give you......but it's still at the expense of somebody else who's innocent.
YellowShark Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 His MC mentioned to him that whatever they've been doing for the last 10 years won't sustain them: separate social lives, never spending time together... but the MC also said that it's pretty "telling" that they never spend time together. How do you *know* what his MC said? Really. Where you there to hear it first hand? Otherwise you are getting information from a man who is lying to his wife. (One of the people closest to him.) So don't be 100% sure he is not painting a picture just for you too. I know this situation ain't pretty - and I know there are many people who are probably infuriated when they read stories like mine. Your situation is toxic. You have a relationship with a married man who is not making the moves to leave his wife while throwing her under a bus to have sex with you. Worse still he is doing it with a woman - (you) - who's children interact with his children. The fallout from all this will be most unpleasant when D-day comes. So many innocent people involved who have no idea that they are pawns in MM and your game. And frankly if he'll cheat with you Cabin the probability that he'll cheat on you eventually is very high. Please don't be so naïve. I only wish you happiness but this sounds like you two are deep in the affair fog and truly aren't thinking of all the ramifications, or the end game at all.
jj33 Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 Cabin the other thing is it may not "sustain them" but they can remain married and lead separate lives forever. Many couples do it. One of them may leave when the children are grown but many couples go on like that for decades.
NoIDidn't Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 Wow, did I just read that "he allowed" his W to be there from a poster? That's an interesting line of thinking that a man allows his W to be somewhere with him, like its a privilege and not her right and expectation. Wow. My H and I are both sarcastic people, so the "jabs" would be normal for us. I can only imagine what conclusions someone could be led to, if they had a negative opinion of me and my marriage. Its easy to draw the conclusions of the OP when you are looking for reasons to compare yourself to the person you wish to replace. What a sad state to be in!
jj33 Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 Wow, did I just read that "he allowed" his W to be there from a poster? That's an interesting line of thinking that a man allows his W to be somewhere with him, like its a privilege and not her right and expectation. Wow. Yes you read it right. In my view he "allowed" the situation to happen. It was a business dinner and ths guy was carrying on an affair so we know he has no compunction about lying to his wife. If he didnt want his wife to be there he could have made something up to ensure she didnt attend. So yeah in my view he allowed her to be there. If he didnt want CC and his W at the same small dinner, he could have orchestrated things differently.
NoIDidn't Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 Yes you read it right. In my view he "allowed" the situation to happen. It was a business dinner and ths guy was carrying on an affair so we know he has no compunction about lying to his wife. If he didnt want his wife to be there he could have made something up to ensure she didnt attend. So yeah in my view he allowed her to be there. If he didnt want CC and his W at the same small dinner, he could have orchestrated things differently. I don't see it as "allowing" at all. She's his W. He could have convinced the OW not to come with her H. And it certainly wouldn't be seen as him "allowing" the OW to be there with her H, so I don't see how that terminology even comes into place. Its so disrespectful to his W and her place in his life, whether he's cheating or not. Its just amazing to see the way being with a person that's already in a relationship creates new ways of thinking about where people belong and what to call it. Not intending this to pick on you in any way. An observation I've made in many that are OP to a "committed partner". Everything about the person they are committed to always comes across as them being "in the way", and "allowed". Its really sad to think of another person as if they are optional like that.
fooled once Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 I am not here to judge you Cabin but wow. How could you even go to a dinner with a man - (and wife!) - who is throwing his wife under a bus and cheating with you. Not to mention children are involved. That is in very bad taste. Additionally you are really trying to find justifications for why "she" isn't right for him. Which is called confirmation bias. Put it this way, she is so "wrong" for him he married her and had kids with her. (sarcasm) I would advise you to walk away and find a SINGLE man who can devote himself to you 100% rather than one who can betray his wife and children. You might find that much less awkward and rewarding. Think about it. Ditto I wonder if he really told her he wanted out... I wonder how you sit at a dinner with a man and his wife and not feel like you want to vomit and not bother with the whole thing... I wonder if people realize relationships are about complement, which doesn't mean you need to be the same temperament and like the same things as the person. Anyway, real, sustaining, healthy relationships take enough work as is, much less adding the factor of a man with a wife and kids and life outside of our "relationship". I'd rather not stack the odds against me from jump...but hey that's just me. As to the original post...I guess you were just sharing your thoughts, so there's not much to be said. Except the things I did say are what immediately came to my mind. Ditto I also find it so interesting how so many OW will do whatever is possible to convince themselves they KNOW what goes on behind closed doors. We all know they MUST believe every word out of the lying MM's mouth; because to not and to examine what is right in front of them will mean they have to admit they don't know the guy like they claim to. Allowed? Yeah, he also allows the OW to sit and wait for him for years. He allows her to have communication with him. He allows her to have sex with him. MM and their OW need to make all kinds of excuses and justifications. Its just what they do. We all know if the tables were turned on THEM, they sure as heck wouldn't find it so funny or amusing to be betrayed. I don't understand why the MM who Cabin is having an affair with is still with going to dinner parties WITH HIS WIFE if he allegedly had this conversation about the marriage being over. When I told my ex we were divorcing, we NEVER again went anywhere together as a couple. Seems like Cabin is being fed a load of poop and unfortunately she is buying what he is selling.
2sunny Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 His MC mentioned to him that whatever they've been doing for the last 10 years won't sustain them: separate social lives, never spending time together... but the MC also said that it's pretty "telling" that they never spend time together. you really can't KNOW this unless YOU were there when the MC said this. he could and would be willing to tell YOU anything... just to keep you on his line... hook, line and sinker... he may love her more than he tells you - and he may never leave - no matter how miserable he SAYS he is. some day... IF you are his next wife... imagine going to parties and looking around wondering which women in the room are screwing your husband behind YOUR back... THAT is realistic and SO sad.
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