DCMNW Posted June 18, 2011 Posted June 18, 2011 Hi All, Just wanted to get some more insight into my situation. I've posted here a few times before. Basically MM ended the A around 3 months ago due to realizing he wasn't ready to walk away from his M and didn't want our relationship to get any deeper or more serious when he couldn't promise or guarantee me anything. He said he still had strong feelings for me but needed to work on himself and figure out his life. He has kept up contact with me ever since. In the beginning it was only once or twice a week, but has now progressed to multiple phone calls daily (except weekends). It's been a bit of a rollercoaster though, as some days he is more distant than others. He finally opened up to me about a week ago and talked about his M for the first time in a long time. He said things weren't getting better and that it feels like they are more "friends" now than anything else. He also said they are slowly starting to live their lives separately, as they each do their own things on the weekends, etc. He says that he doesn't want to live this way forever because he's not happy, but that he's worried about the kids, etc (I realize this is a common excuse MM use). Anyways I'm not sure if he tells me this because we are close friends now or if there is another reason. Of course when I hear these things it gives me this sense of hope that maybe D will eventually happen and we can be together. Here's the thing, and I'll probably get some flack for this, but a few times we've talked lately I've been a little more flirty, I guess you could say, to see what kind of reaction I get. He'll laugh or something but he really doesnt reciprocate. I know we've been trying to just be friends but I sometimes wonder if he even has feelings for me anymore, because he never expresses them. I dont know if its just that he is trying to have self control, feels strongly for me but doesn't want to tell me those types of things at the risk of things crossing a line or me possibly being hurt again, etc. Or does he really just think of me as a friend now? I mean he calls me all the time and I know he cares about me. I guess I just can't figure out what he wants from me. I realize its getting to the point where I should just ask him where he stands and what his feelings are, and I might do that next week as it is starting to wear on me. Thanks for any insight.
fooled once Posted June 18, 2011 Posted June 18, 2011 For goodness sake, this guy is not divorced, not separated. He is MARRIED and he is playing you. Why why why can't women say NO to MM? He is married. Why isn't that enough for you to make the decision to NOT play this game? What happened to free will in regards to NOT ANSWERING his calls??? You have caller ID (cause just about everyone does) and you know when HE is calling and you answer. Don't say he is pursing you; because someone calling another person isn't pursuing. If you truly respect yourself, you will tell him to LEAVE YOU ALONE. If he had any feelings of wanting to be with you - he would respect YOU enough to end his marriage - LEGALLY - before 'pursuing you' and having you be his mistress. But I guess you like the attention and it doesn't matter if he is married or not. He ended it before and you are more than happy to start it up again. Why? he is just going to hurt you again (more than likely). And don't believe his crap about his marriage being more about roommates. If that is the truth, then he would separate WITHOUT having you as his back up plan.
Author DCMNW Posted June 18, 2011 Author Posted June 18, 2011 Fooled once, First, I work with MM so NC is not an option and would make things incredibly awkward at work. I'm not trying to start the affair again. I flirted a little to see what he would do so that maybe I could tell if he still has feelings for me. I realize this sounds rediculous, but he can be hard to read. When we first ended things I told him I didnt want to get "sucked back in" to the affair again and told him I thought he messed with my head by making me believe his M was over and it was only a matter of time until separation occurred. So I can see why he would hold back and not want to show any real feelings towards me now. I don't really get how he is playing me. He doesn't get anything sexual out of our relationship as we keep things very platonic.
Breezy Trousers Posted June 18, 2011 Posted June 18, 2011 Hi All, Just wanted to get some more insight into my situation. I've posted here a few times before. Basically MM ended the A around 3 months ago due to realizing he wasn't ready to walk away from his M and didn't want our relationship to get any deeper or more serious when he couldn't promise or guarantee me anything. He said he still had strong feelings for me but needed to work on himself and figure out his life. He has kept up contact with me ever since. In the beginning it was only once or twice a week, but has now progressed to multiple phone calls daily (except weekends). It's been a bit of a rollercoaster though, as some days he is more distant than others. . The married man song and dance. Sorry, DCMNW, but this is a common pattern. Periodically cutting things off provides drama. The insecurity of the on-again-off-again game is a way of keeping you plugged in. I'm not saying this is done consciously. I'm saying it's common. Be careful. Lots of AP have attachment disorder. They use affairs to stay out of their marriages and use their marriages to stay out of their affairs. They never fully make a commitment to either, nor do they intend to. He finally opened up to me about a week ago and talked about his M for the first time in a long time. He said things weren't getting better and that it feels like they are more "friends" now than anything else. He also said they are slowly starting to live their lives separately, as they each do their own things on the weekends, etc. . Maybe. Maybe not. This story is straight out of Cake Eater 101. Look, he's been having an ongoing affair with you, and, yes, it's an affair if you're still regularly talking. He and his wife are starting to live their lives separately while he has a mistress? Big surprise, that! He says that he doesn't want to live this way forever because he's not happy, but that he's worried about the kids, etc (I realize this is a common excuse MM use). . Uh-huh. Textbook. Anyways I'm not sure if he tells me this because we are close friends now or if there is another reason. Of course when I hear these things it gives me this sense of hope that maybe D will eventually happen and we can be together. . Affairs are about being addicted to hope. That's affair fuel. Here's the thing, and I'll probably get some flack for this, but a few times we've talked lately I've been a little more flirty, I guess you could say, to see what kind of reaction I get. He'll laugh or something but he really doesnt reciprocate. I know we've been trying to just be friends but I sometimes wonder if he even has feelings for me anymore, because he never expresses them. I dont know if its just that he is trying to have self control, feels strongly for me but doesn't want to tell me those types of things at the risk of things crossing a line or me possibly being hurt again, etc. Or does he really just think of me as a friend now? I mean he calls me all the time and I know he cares about me. I guess I just can't figure out what he wants from me. . You're giving him lots of positive attention, validation and, I'm assuming, have already made yourself sexually available to him. It doesn't sound as though he's giving much back to you. He's controlling the relationship, too. There's only one way you'll know if he's serious about you: Refuse to talk to him -- close the gate -- until he divorces his wife. Tell him that once he is divorced and established in his new life, he can call you, but only then. I think you're unlikely to do this, though. So, short of doing that, there's no way of really knowing. Well, actually, as it stands today, I think you do already know. That's why you're likely to proceed in this. Many OW believe that their continued attention will eventually give them what they want -- i.e., eventually MM will leave the BS and marry them. Sometimes that happens, but not usually. My girlfriend is in her third year of an affair with a MM who has made it clear he has no intention of leaving. She can't/won't unhook herself, and her self esteem is getting lower with each passing year. Be careful. Affairs are highly addictive. Months can turn into years. I realize its getting to the point where I should just ask him where he stands and what his feelings are, and I might do that next week as it is starting to wear on me. Thanks for any insight. Why not ask him today? If you have trust and safety in this relationship, what are you waiting for? If you don't have trust & safety in this relationship, why are you in it?
BB07 Posted June 18, 2011 Posted June 18, 2011 Actually you still are in an emotional affair and he isn't working on his marriage while he is still talking to you. He may say he is, but come on, you and I both know you can't do two relationships at once and do either one of them justice. What is he getting out of it, what are you getting out of it? Can it lead to anything more than you being his emotional support? He can't be there for you, now can he? So ask yourself who is getting the most benefit from it? I seriously doubt it's you. You are feeding his ego, validating him, and keeping the drama going. Some part of you must be getting the same things or else you'd see your way to stop something that has no future. So many commonalities........which SHOULD be a huge red flag and I bet he is good at playing that poor tortured soul to the max.
Breezy Trousers Posted June 18, 2011 Posted June 18, 2011 Fooled once, First, I work with MM so NC is not an option and would make things incredibly awkward at work. I'm not trying to start the affair again. I flirted a little to see what he would do so that maybe I could tell if he still has feelings for me. I realize this sounds rediculous, but he can be hard to read. When we first ended things I told him I didnt want to get "sucked back in" to the affair again and told him I thought he messed with my head by making me believe his M was over and it was only a matter of time until separation occurred. So I can see why he would hold back and not want to show any real feelings towards me now. I don't really get how he is playing me. He doesn't get anything sexual out of our relationship as we keep things very platonic. Lots of people have affairs just for new attention. Sex is a bonus. I know you don't want to hear this. You need to get a new job, DCMNW. Once it crosses into a PA, these things are very difficult to turn off. Also, if it comes out that you've been having an affair, it often damages reputations -- usually the woman's if the MM is the moneymaker for the company (though his reputation will never the same, either). Love fog causes us to minimize things and be in denial. Be careful. Workplace affair partners are always the last to know that everyone already knows. Again: love fog causes us to minimize things and be in denial.
Author DCMNW Posted June 18, 2011 Author Posted June 18, 2011 Breezy, Thank you for your response. I know my story sounds like so many others. It is so addictive. I have not made myself sexually available. I say "flirty" comments, but mostly silly innocent stuff...its not like I've been throwing myself at him. But yes, I'm not getting much back from as far as flirting goes...but he is the one who continues to call wanting to talk, joke around, etc. You know I was thinking just today that maybe I need to pull back some. I think I need to be a little more stand offish with him. I have noticed its usually when I start to pull away that he suddenly becomes more attentive. Oh the games... I agree I need to get to the point where I just cut off contact and say leave me alone and don't contact me until you are officially separated at the very least. It's just hard because yes, I am very attached to him emotionally and I work with him so its hard to cut off contact completely. I realize I am immersed in an unhealthy situation, as I feel that I am delusional in thinking we will end up together, when in reality I know this is highly unlikely.
fooled once Posted June 18, 2011 Posted June 18, 2011 Fooled once, First, I work with MM so NC is not an option and would make things incredibly awkward at work. I'm not trying to start the affair again. I flirted a little to see what he would do so that maybe I could tell if he still has feelings for me. I realize this sounds rediculous, but he can be hard to read. When we first ended things I told him I didnt want to get "sucked back in" to the affair again and told him I thought he messed with my head by making me believe his M was over and it was only a matter of time until separation occurred. So I can see why he would hold back and not want to show any real feelings towards me now. I don't really get how he is playing me. He doesn't get anything sexual out of our relationship as we keep things very platonic. actually it IS possible to do NC even though you work together. Do you work FOR HIM? Does your daily work INVOLVE him or do you just choose to involve him? If he is your boss, you have a heck of a lot to be worried about because when it comes out, and it usually does, you will be let go. HR departments usually don't take it well when a married boss and an underling are having an affair. So what do you hope to accomplish by flirting and finding out if he 'cares'? So what if he does? Will it give you an ego boost? What does it matter if he is STILL MARRIED? You say you don't want to get sucked backed into the affair ... you are STILL in the affair! Why do you think differently? Are you saying if he 'says' he is separating then it is okay for you to start having sex again? Come on, you are better than being his mistress again! He gets an EGO boost out of contacting you. He gets to flirt, he gets to get you to confess that you want him, that you are in love with him, etc. He gets attention from you. Are you serious about your remark about you don't get how he is playing you? So what are you wanting to accomplish??? Lots of people have affairs just for new attention. Sex is a bonus. I know you don't want to hear this. You need to get a new job, DCMNW. Once it crosses into a PA, these things are very difficult to turn off. Also, if it comes out that you've been having an affair, it often damages reputations -- usually the woman's if the MM is the moneymaker for the company (though his reputation will never the same, either). Love fog causes us to minimize things and be in denial. Be careful. Workplace affair partners are always the last to know that everyone already knows. Again: love fog causes us to minimize things and be in denial. Yep Yep Yep
whichwayisup Posted June 18, 2011 Posted June 18, 2011 Hi All, Just wanted to get some more insight into my situation. I've posted here a few times before. Basically MM ended the A around 3 months ago due to realizing he wasn't ready to walk away from his M and didn't want our relationship to get any deeper or more serious when he couldn't promise or guarantee me anything. He said he still had strong feelings for me but needed to work on himself and figure out his life. He has kept up contact with me ever since. In the beginning it was only once or twice a week, but has now progressed to multiple phone calls daily (except weekends). It's been a bit of a rollercoaster though, as some days he is more distant than others. He finally opened up to me about a week ago and talked about his M for the first time in a long time. He said things weren't getting better and that it feels like they are more "friends" now than anything else. He also said they are slowly starting to live their lives separately, as they each do their own things on the weekends, etc. He says that he doesn't want to live this way forever because he's not happy, but that he's worried about the kids, etc (I realize this is a common excuse MM use). Anyways I'm not sure if he tells me this because we are close friends now or if there is another reason. Of course when I hear these things it gives me this sense of hope that maybe D will eventually happen and we can be together. . First part I bolded... If he is doing his own thing on weekends, not with his wife, don't you find it slightly odd that he doesn't contact you at all during that time? 2nd part I bolded and in intalics.. You are giving yourself HOPE and he hasn't mentioned divorce. To me it sounds like he's prepping you to go back into the affair. Don't let yourself have hope. This man is confused and/or he's either NOT telling you the truth and telling you what you want to hear. He may or may not want the A to continue as it was before, but it IS now an EA. You don't know what the real truth is. Either way he STILL is living at home and a husband to his wife, father to his children. They are a family. That hasn't changed, reguardless of what he tells you. Here's the thing, and I'll probably get some flack for this, but a few times we've talked lately I've been a little more flirty, I guess you could say, to see what kind of reaction I get. He'll laugh or something but he really doesnt reciprocate. I know we've been trying to just be friends but I sometimes wonder if he even has feelings for me anymore, because he never expresses them. I dont know if its just that he is trying to have self control, feels strongly for me but doesn't want to tell me those types of things at the risk of things crossing a line or me possibly being hurt again, etc. Or does he really just think of me as a friend now? I mean he calls me all the time and I know he cares about me. I guess I just can't figure out what he wants from me. He isn't taking the bait so stop flirting and opening that door. It's just asking for trouble and you are going to get hurt. Get your boundries up and please, try to detach from him. Don't rely on him and make him such an important part of his life. You aren't in his. Sorry I don't mean that to come out bitchy, but the reality still is, he's married. I realize its getting to the point where I should just ask him where he stands and what his feelings are, and I might do that next week as it is starting to wear on me. Thanks for any insight Does it matter what his feelings are? Even more so since more than likely a divorce is not going to happen. You are looking at this as NOW. Are you prepared to be a step mom to his kids? deal with his (ex)wife, extended family and friends? An affair isn't based on real life, day to day, good/bad/ugly moments..It's stolen moments and selfish moments taken.. You both are on more or less best behaviour to enjoy your time together. You've not seen or dealt with one another during rough times in life, daily routines, etc.. How is he supposed to just up and divorce start a new life with you without truly giving his marriage a chance without you in it? Hope this makes sense to you..
whichwayisup Posted June 18, 2011 Posted June 18, 2011 Fooled once, First, I work with MM so NC is not an option and would make things incredibly awkward at work. I'm not trying to start the affair again. I flirted a little to see what he would do so that maybe I could tell if he still has feelings for me. I realize this sounds rediculous, but he can be hard to read. When we first ended things I told him I didnt want to get "sucked back in" to the affair again and told him I thought he messed with my head by making me believe his M was over and it was only a matter of time until separation occurred. So I can see why he would hold back and not want to show any real feelings towards me now. I don't really get how he is playing me. He doesn't get anything sexual out of our relationship as we keep things very platonic. So was this an ego thing to make yourself feel better? Flirt and see if he was still interested, yet you have no intention of starting the affair again? He is holding back whatever he feels BECAUSE the A is over. You are way too caught up in the why's and how's of what he is thinking and doing rather than asking yourself WHY you are hanging onto a MM who isn't leaving his wife and kids.
whichwayisup Posted June 18, 2011 Posted June 18, 2011 I have not made myself sexually available. I say "flirty" comments, but mostly silly innocent stuff...its not like I've been throwing myself at him. But yes, I'm not getting much back from as far as flirting goes...but he is the one who continues to call wanting to talk, joke around, etc. Don't put this all on him..You are allowing it! You could say no. You chose to work things out with your wife and the A is over. Im hurtin and can't deal with talking and seeing you like this anymore, even as friends. Stand up to him and ask him to please respect you and YOUR choices.. Stop blaming him for this. You're willing and flirting to see how far things could go... You know I was thinking just today that maybe I need to pull back some. I think I need to be a little more stand offish with him. I have noticed its usually when I start to pull away that he suddenly becomes more attentive. Oh the games... Exactly. Glad you see this! Detach and focus on YOU. Your friends, family, hobbies and stop putting effort into someone who in the long run IS going to break your heart.. He will if you let him in. After an A ends, friendship is impossible. When you see him at work, be professional and keep things non personal. Don't talk, do lunch or talk on the phone, email etc.. DO distance yourself emotionally from him. I agree I need to get to the point where I just cut off contact and say leave me alone and don't contact me until you are officially separated at the very least. It's just hard because yes, I am very attached to him emotionally and I work with him so its hard to cut off contact completely. NO, you tell him call me and we'll casually date when the divorce is OFFICIAL. Not separated! Let me ask, do people at work suspect your affair with him? You chose to have an affair with a MM whom you work with so somehow you need to deal with the fallout (end of A and after math of somehow avoiding eachother on a personal level)... I realize I am immersed in an unhealthy situation, as I feel that I am delusional in thinking we will end up together, when in reality I know this is highly unlikely. So glad you see this! Keep telling yourself this. Listen to your head and see the reality of your situation. Push the heart and emotions away, that's just wishful and hopeful thinking that will hurt you and get you into trouble.
Breezy Trousers Posted June 18, 2011 Posted June 18, 2011 Breezy, Thank you for your response. I know my story sounds like so many others. It is so addictive. I have not made myself sexually available. I say "flirty" comments, but mostly silly innocent stuff...its not like I've been throwing myself at him. But yes, I'm not getting much back from as far as flirting goes...but he is the one who continues to call wanting to talk, joke around, etc. You know I was thinking just today that maybe I need to pull back some. I think I need to be a little more stand offish with him. I have noticed its usually when I start to pull away that he suddenly becomes more attentive. Oh the games... I agree I need to get to the point where I just cut off contact and say leave me alone and don't contact me until you are officially separated at the very least. It's just hard because yes, I am very attached to him emotionally and I work with him so its hard to cut off contact completely. I realize I am immersed in an unhealthy situation, as I feel that I am delusional in thinking we will end up together, when in reality I know this is highly unlikely. I'm sorry. I misunderstood, thinking you had a physical affair with MM months before.... Some here say that an EA is more difficult than PA, though. Do you believe this is his first affair? I did with mine -- also a top gun at work. I felt honored by Mr. Married Many Years & with-Children Church Man's attentions. Looking back, I was incredibly naive ..... I realize you are in love, but please consider the possibility that this isn't his first affair and that you may not even be the only woman he is talking to right now. A lot of these guys have great public images that don't match the truth of who they are. You're in a difficult situation. Love fog being what it is, I doubt you will be motivated to leave your workplace until: 1) you hit bottom with affair pain; 2) you see through MM's facade (as I eventually did with mine); or 3) or win the affair lottery & actually marry MM ( -- and marrying a cheater is a dubious prize). I still work on the same floor with the top-gun MM in my situation. When he approached me, I did arrange my life so I seldom crossed paths with him -- I moved my work hours up an hour to avoid him at the elevators, avoided most company functions and all happy hours, and never walked within 50 feet of his corner office. If you don't work for someone, you can cut off contact cleanly. I had a marriage to protect (despite my love fog), so it was doable. I saw his MM's true manipulative colors last year & never had a PA with him, so continuing to be on the same floor presents no problem for me .... MM moved on to a single co-worker on another floor last summer/fall, but, even with her being a floor below, I imagine it will be painful for her if & when it ends .... Another issue is that MM will often try to reach you after you go to another workplace .... Frankly, it's much easier to stay out of an affair than it is to pull out of one. Sometimes these things turn into real love, but often it doesn't. Please don't get caught in the cycle my friend is in. Set a limit for yourself as to how long you will put up with this. Do this for you. Make yourself the priority here, not MM. IMO, the worst part of affairs are the lies and rationalizations we tell ourselves while in love fog, as well as the stories & excuses we make for MM -- not really MM himself. I think it's good that you are keeping one eye open, even if one eye is shut. There's no way you would come here and open yourself up to us if you wanted to keep both eyes shut. Hang in there.
bentnotbroken Posted June 18, 2011 Posted June 18, 2011 Fooled once, First, I work with MM so NC is not an option and would make things incredibly awkward at work. I'm not trying to start the affair again. I flirted a little to see what he would do so that maybe I could tell if he still has feelings for me. I realize this sounds rediculous, but he can be hard to read. When we first ended things I told him I didnt want to get "sucked back in" to the affair again and told him I thought he messed with my head by making me believe his M was over and it was only a matter of time until separation occurred. So I can see why he would hold back and not want to show any real feelings towards me now. I don't really get how he is playing me. He doesn't get anything sexual out of our relationship as we keep things very platonic. If he is playing her, he isn't the only one doing the playing. They both are playing with the life of another person. Show feeling toward you huh? Just flirted to see how he would react huh? This all sounds so nice and tidy. Until someone throws a bomb into the middle of your life...it isn't that big a deal is it?
Recommended Posts