Mme. Chaucer Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 Woggle, Feminism and "misandry" are not related. Feminism is wonderful. I'm so pleased that I'm allowed to vote, to be paid equally for equal work, to be a surgeon if I wanna, to have the protection of the law if my husband, father, or brother decides to beat or otherwise abuse me, and all kinds of stuff ... thank you, Feminism! It has NOTHING to do with hating on men or on anyone. It began as a movement necessary to some long overdue social change. Some people are horrified by this ... too bad for them. The changes are not going into reverse. There is still some work required, in fact. Equal rights for women are here to stay forever! Yay! You are still busy looking in every nook and cranny to find places where your Mom's faulty tie-ins between Feminism and, I guess, hate, can be illustrated besides in your home. I read the article. I do not think that the article purports that "cheating is a feminist act." I think that it does put forth that the act of cheating, in some cases, for some women, might be a reaction by those women to their perception of the role women have been smashed into by most cultures for many centuries, and to the place she feels she has in that. And I think the author is buying into this as well. It has nothing to do with you, or with Feminism being a negative thing for you or for any other reasonably enlightened person who does not need segments of our society to remain disenfranchised in order to feel empowered. Why don't you, Woggle, "just say no" to subject matter that gets you off on a negative track. There's no good in it for you.
Author Woggle Posted June 19, 2011 Author Posted June 19, 2011 I never said that feminism was a bad thing but people like her are doing to feminism what people like Osama Bin Laden did to Islam.
Author Woggle Posted June 20, 2011 Author Posted June 20, 2011 I don't get this just say no stuff. Am I supposed to stick my fingers in my ears and pretend that everything is okay? Also feminists should actually be angry to see their movement represented like this. If you truly want something to succeed it is a good idea to want to put the best face forward. It's like the way I do not support the cast of Jersey Shore because they make my state look bad. Women like the author make feminism look bad.
Untouchable_Fire Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 Do more anthropological reading? The study of remains shows our size difference to be marginal at best - with 15% being the greatest disparity found. Getting your rape on would not be all that easy. You still need to assume yours is more accurate (while also saying there is no way to know) even against actual research. I can easily beat a woman my same size and weight... muscle is the deciding factor. Besides are you talking about australopithecus? I've really not read much research for groups dating beyond 10,000 years. Its not about not suffering consequences at all. Its about not suffering more consequence for not being male/ more for being female. It is about consequences. Men often lose everything if caught cheating. Women typically lose nothing of value... and in fact can garner lots of sympathy. So when you hear a black person talk about coming from a position of disadvantage being a hurdle to equality you think they're being racist? And when they complain about still getting profiled more than white people you think they're being racist? Or do you imagine yourself as the black person in that equation with women being mean old whitey? I don't see how. .... ? So white men alone are to blame for racism? The most racist person I've ever met is a woman. So do I. That isn't feminism. Unfortunately it is. I agree that punishing innocent people is not what feminism is about but the woman in this article is advocating exactly that and flies the feminist flag. Many misandrists are wearing the uniform so don't blame guys for getting it confused. Feminism is good in theory, but evil in practice. That is why it confuses you so much.
sally4sara Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 words I find it funny that you, riding your huff, get upset over the concept of a woman thinking of men as a whole in a negative light for the behaviors of one, two, three, even a dozen crappy men yet How many threads have you started insulting me and the vast majority of American women for the crimes of the handful you've dated personally. This alone makes you unqualified to speak against the bad apples hailing feminism. You're just like those bad apples so you should be defending them. Further ironic that you seem to think your female counterpart is worse. This attitude than any rights women had to fight for were a gift from men that women should be grateful for. You don't get gratitude for finally not affording the same rights as your own. Its what should have been all along. Yet you act like not still living like those rights are witheld is some slap in the face. Women get rewarded for cheating and men don't get over punished for it - thats your screwed perception due to your choices on how to handle it and the character types you gravitated to romantically. Tell me UF, what was it like for your great great grandaddy when he wasn't allowed to vote? Oh wait - he was allowed. No one cared. He was a man.
Author Woggle Posted June 20, 2011 Author Posted June 20, 2011 I find it funny that you, riding your huff, get upset over the concept of a woman thinking of men as a whole in a negative light for the behaviors of one, two, three, even a dozen crappy men yet How many threads have you started insulting me and the vast majority of American women for the crimes of the handful you've dated personally. This alone makes you unqualified to speak against the bad apples hailing feminism. You're just like those bad apples so you should be defending them. Further ironic that you seem to think your female counterpart is worse. This attitude than any rights women had to fight for were a gift from men that women should be grateful for. You don't get gratitude for finally not affording the same rights as your own. Its what should have been all along. Yet you act like not still living like those rights are witheld is some slap in the face. Women get rewarded for cheating and men don't get over punished for it - thats your screwed perception due to your choices on how to handle it and the character types you gravitated to romantically. Tell me UF, what was it like for your great great grandaddy when he wasn't allowed to vote? Oh wait - he was allowed. No one cared. He was a man. None of this justifies the crap that women who we did nothing but treat well dished out to us. I remember you said once that you actually cut off a friend who cheated on a man yet you are completely justifying it. With all due respect I thought you were different than this. When I read this stuff it really hits a raw nerve because this is the same kind of justification that my ex gave me and my own mother gave me for the crap I dealt with. It's like living it all over again. How would you feel if a woman betrayed your son? Would you justify it because it's now women's time to do it?
xxoo Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 I can not wrap my head around cheating as a feminist act. I can understand feelings of vengeance. I understand anger, unfairness, and pain. But to respond with female cheating (because we can!) ultimately just causes more pain. Feminism is not about empowering women to cause as much pain as men have caused. Leaving a man who cheats is a feminist act. Refusing to marry may be a feminist act. As a woman, I am thankful to generations of feminists before me that I have those choices, that I can work and prosper free from dependence on a man. But cheating--no, that is not feminism.
Untouchable_Fire Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 Woggle, Feminism and "misandry" are not related. Feminism is wonderful. I'm so pleased that I'm allowed to vote, to be paid equally for equal work, to be a surgeon if I wanna, to have the protection of the law if my husband, father, or brother decides to beat or otherwise abuse me, and all kinds of stuff ... thank you, Feminism! The same way that skinheads and racism are not related. Feminists of the 1900's agitated for some great reforms, but they didn't write those laws. Their Fathers, Husbands, and Brothers wrote those laws to protect them and provide equal opportunity. I find it funny that you, riding your huff, get upset over the concept of a woman thinking of men as a whole in a negative light for the behaviors of one, two, three, even a dozen crappy men yet How many threads have you started insulting me and the vast majority of American women for the crimes of the handful you've dated personally. This alone makes you unqualified to speak against the bad apples hailing feminism. You're just like those bad apples so you should be defending them. Further ironic that you seem to think your female counterpart is worse. This attitude than any rights women had to fight for were a gift from men that women should be grateful for. You don't get gratitude for finally not affording the same rights as your own. Its what should have been all along. Yet you act like not still living like those rights are witheld is some slap in the face. Women get rewarded for cheating and men don't get over punished for it - thats your screwed perception due to your choices on how to handle it and the character types you gravitated to romantically. Tell me UF, what was it like for your great great grandaddy when he wasn't allowed to vote? Oh wait - he was allowed. No one cared. He was a man. You honestly can't see the difference... or you just choose to ignore it for the sake of argument? I'm not out abusing anyone. In contrast a Feminists singular goal in life is to cause pain to the people they hate most... men and children. Isn't this article which is posted in a big media newspaper evidence of feminist attitudes? Feminists are also actively engaged in keeping young boys out of college. The percent of boys attending is rapidly dropping. Right now only 44% of those attending college are male! Feminists have waged a war against boys for over 30 years... cutting off nearly every avenue for social support and mentoring.
Lecturer Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 (edited) She appeared simultaneously horrified by and delighted with her behavior. I was, too. While I tsk-tsk’d audibly and threw her a disapproving look, inside I cheered. But I felt a perverse sort of triumph in her betrayal, a celebration that this vibrant, brilliant, often careful young woman ... was boldly asserting control over her sexual and emotional desires. The psychological motivations of men who fool around are varied. The only thing to be said is that a man who commits adultery or sends topless photos while engaged in a committed, monogamous relationship is pathetic and wrong and should grow up already. I think that sums up the double-standard nicely. Edit: Let me add that I'm not against feminism, but I AM against crazy militant feminism. I'm against anything that is done out of hate and anger, and is selectively ignorant to fact and history. Edited June 20, 2011 by Lecturer
Author Woggle Posted June 20, 2011 Author Posted June 20, 2011 I want to ask the women here who are so much against porn and strip clubs for men in relationships how that is so wrong but behavior like this is perfectly okay.
sally4sara Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 None of this justifies the crap that women who we did nothing but treat well dished out to us. I remember you said once that you actually cut off a friend who cheated on a man yet you are completely justifying it. With all due respect I thought you were different than this. When I read this stuff it really hits a raw nerve because this is the same kind of justification that my ex gave me and my own mother gave me for the crap I dealt with. It's like living it all over again. How would you feel if a woman betrayed your son? Would you justify it because it's now women's time to do it? I don't get you. I cannot point out a specific person's hypocrisy in a thread you are reading without you freaking out when that person is a man. UF make threads all the time holding what the few American women he dated did to him against every woman in an entire nation. Yet he is bitching about militant feminists doing the exact same thing to men; punishing good men for the acts of bad ones and ones long ago dead simple because they dealt with some bad ones. Because of this, I see him as fuel to the stupidity and just as wrong as the women you fret over. Not to mention an neigh equal number of college students of both genders and someone starts crying that women are blocking young men from attending? Was it a huge ass deal when women were close to equal in attendance but still a bit less? I didn't think it was but I guess I was wrong! And if a woman cheats its an act of feminism? Is it an act against women in general when a man cheats? WOW I didn't look at it in that light when I was cheated on! Now I'm doubly offended knowing it wasn't just cause he was an *******! When I dumped that friend it was because she did something that showed me she could not be trusted by even those closest to her, not due to some rogue act against feminism. Get real, can't people just not want to deal with crappy people without it being about your gender war?
Author Woggle Posted June 21, 2011 Author Posted June 21, 2011 To me wrong is wrong no matter what the gender of the person. To lie to and betray the person that trusts is one of the lowest things a person can do and that goes for both men and women but the author of this article is looking at cheating as some feminist act against the patriarchy. When a man cheats it is because he is a dishonest jerk and when a woman cheats she is a dishonest jerk as well.
bentnotbroken Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 To me wrong is wrong no matter what the gender of the person. To lie to and betray the person that trusts is one of the lowest things a person can do and that goes for both men and women but the author of this article is looking at cheating as some feminist act against the patriarchy. When a man cheats it is because he is a dishonest jerk and when a woman cheats she is a dishonest jerk as well. An empathic YES!!!!!
Untouchable_Fire Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 I don't get you. I cannot point out a specific person's hypocrisy in a thread you are reading without you freaking out when that person is a man. UF make threads all the time holding what the few American women he dated did to him against every woman in an entire nation. Yet he is bitching about militant feminists doing the exact same thing to men; punishing good men for the acts of bad ones and ones long ago dead simple because they dealt with some bad ones. Because of this, I see him as fuel to the stupidity and just as wrong as the women you fret over. The last thread like that I started was in 2010... 3 in total. Does that constitute "all the time"? I complain... these women cheat. This is equal in your opinion? Not to mention an neigh equal number of college students of both genders and someone starts crying that women are blocking young men from attending? Was it a huge ass deal when women were close to equal in attendance but still a bit less? I didn't think it was but I guess I was wrong! And if a woman cheats its an act of feminism? Is it an act against women in general when a man cheats? WOW I didn't look at it in that light when I was cheated on! Now I'm doubly offended knowing it wasn't just cause he was an *******! Women hit virtual college parity in the early 1980's. Ever since enrollment for boys has been declining. It wasn't until 2002 that it became a serious problem. As a reasonable person can't you agree that 44% is too low? I really don't care if you agree with the causes. You should at least agree that we should invest as much social effort into boys as we do girls. When I dumped that friend it was because she did something that showed me she could not be trusted by even those closest to her, not due to some rogue act against feminism. Get real, can't people just not want to deal with crappy people without it being about your gender war? Crappy people are crappy people. I simply believe that crappy people tend to flock to certain banners... feminism being one.
sally4sara Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 Crappy people are crappy people. I simply believe that crappy people tend to flock to certain banners... feminism being one. Not real feminism. But yes crappy people do flock to certain banners... prejudism, no matter what culture they are prejudiced towards being one of them. And your threads are not mere rants but a call to action. Propaganda if you will. You who clings to old traditions that smell of the 50s and earlier just because your ex wife ragged on you for earning less before she cheated on you. Still sensitive about anything that doesn't depict men as benevolent bread winning dictators placating the silly wimmins by "allowing" them equality for which they should be ever grateful and show by behaving as bid. You didn't even have it as rough as someone like Woggle to justify this. Who terrorized you growing up? I bet your ex didn't pop off shots at you. Yet I see more growth in him than you. He was at least able to see he was becoming what he hated. Whats your problem? And no, I don't see a problem with a 44% male college attendance. If it keeps dipping they will see more promotion via grants and scholorships to try and even it back out. You know, just like women had to wait until the 80s to receive. MY son will be going and thats all I care about. And I am not stupid enough to believe women are behind the drop in college enrollment. The economy has hit may families hard and its become quite apparent to many young people that a degree, that once upon a time guarantee for employment success isn't much of a guarantee anymore of anything but early adult debt. Especially when your family can't afford to help you out.
Author Woggle Posted June 21, 2011 Author Posted June 21, 2011 I don't agree with everything that UF says but I never see him cheering when an innocent person is betrayed and lied to.
Untouchable_Fire Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 Not real feminism. But yes crappy people do flock to certain banners... prejudism, no matter what culture they are prejudiced towards being one of them. And your threads are not mere rants but a call to action. Propaganda if you will. Yes... I suggest a boycott of crappy women and a call to change American Culture. What is "real feminism"? Some definition in a textbook? "Real Life Feminism" is well represented by this author and article... from a mainstream media outlet. So... the question was posed... is cheating an act of feminism... Answer... Yes indeed it is... ...? You who clings to old traditions that smell of the 50s and earlier just because your ex wife ragged on you for earning less before she cheated on you. Still sensitive about anything that doesn't depict men as benevolent bread winning dictators placating the silly wimmins by "allowing" them equality for which they should be ever grateful and show by behaving as bid. You didn't even have it as rough as someone like Woggle to justify this. Who terrorized you growing up? I bet your ex didn't pop off shots at you. Yet I see more growth in him than you. He was at least able to see he was becoming what he hated. Whats your problem? ... You have my story mixed up with someone else. I was divorced by 23... my x/wife didn't cheat. I've had 2xGF's who did. Both in 2-3 year relationships. Do I have to be shot at to get your sympathy? I have no interest in sharing my life story with people who only pay half attention. Look... I know you don't like me. I don't care. How you respond to me says a lot about YOU. And no, I don't see a problem with a 44% male college attendance. If it keeps dipping they will see more promotion via grants and scholorships to try and even it back out. You know, just like women had to wait until the 80s to receive. MY son will be going and thats all I care about. And I am not stupid enough to believe women are behind the drop in college enrollment. The economy has hit may families hard and its become quite apparent to many young people that a degree, that once upon a time guarantee for employment success isn't much of a guarantee anymore of anything but early adult debt. Especially when your family can't afford to help you out. It has serious and long lasting consequences. Philosophy Majors don't cure cancer... and for some reason women still don't flock to the hard sciences. That is a gender imbalance that needs to be fixed as well. I'm glad your son is going to college. I don't agree with everything that UF says but I never see him cheering when an innocent person is betrayed and lied to. 5 pages in... and look at who still hasn't condemned the article or it's author?
Author Woggle Posted June 21, 2011 Author Posted June 21, 2011 I don't usually agree with extreme MRAs or people like that because most of them very much do hate women but at the end of the day who else has my back. Who else sticks up for people like me and is willing to fight for us? It's sad but they are the only people who I feel would really be in my corner.
Untouchable_Fire Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 I don't usually agree with extreme MRAs or people like that because most of them very much do hate women but at the end of the day who else has my back. Who else sticks up for people like me and is willing to fight for us? It's sad but they are the only people who I feel would really be in my corner. What is an MRA?
Author Woggle Posted June 21, 2011 Author Posted June 21, 2011 What is an MRA? Men's rights activist. Many of them very much do hate women because I have seen their boards but at the end of the day they are the only ones sticking up for us.
Mme. Chaucer Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 The reality is that Feminism is most often a force for evil. That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. Lots of people felt the same way as you do about the Equal Rights Movement, for example, the members of the KKK.
Mme. Chaucer Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 Men's rights activist. Many of them very much do hate women because I have seen their boards but at the end of the day they are the only ones sticking up for us. Woggle, chill out. You don't need women haters to "stick up" for you. Leave the ignorant haters of whatever to themselves, unless you want to take action AGAINST hate. Hate does not solve any problems at all, it just exacerbates them. Social change brings a lot of pains and fosters a great deal of fear, ignorant backlash and misunderstanding. A social movement such as Feminism is not bad for men or society, just because it has helped to elevate women. People who misuse other people are bad for humanity (gender irrelevant) and society.
gaius Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 I don't usually agree with extreme MRAs or people like that because most of them very much do hate women but at the end of the day who else has my back. Who else sticks up for people like me and is willing to fight for us? It's sad but they are the only people who I feel would really be in my corner. I have no problem sticking up for men when it's warranted, even if it brings flak. According to some of the women here it's impossible for me to get laid because I think men should be allowed one lap dance when they go to a bachelor party. Go figure. However, I think you have a lot of misdirected anger against women. You're rightfully pissed off at your mom and your ex who did some horrible **** to you, but other girls are getting that anger albeit in a very non confrontational way. You rag on feminism, use the fact you saw two angry hens ranting in a store as an excuse to “lose faith in women” thereby condemning ALL women. Including your wife who has done nothing to you but be a loving partner (from what I've read). Now your not into the anniversary celebration that much, which she will probably sense even if you still go through with it. It's not a healthy way to live and you end up hurting the good people in your life. I would be doing you a great disservice if I just went along with all your posts and didn't say anything, or rose to your defense. That being said, I like you! You have of way of summing up what everyone is thinking in one sentence a lot of times, and that's a rare talent. I enjoy seeing your posts. I hope you don't interpret my words as meaning otherwise.
sally4sara Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 ... You have my story mixed up with someone else. I was divorced by 23... my x/wife didn't cheat. I've had 2xGF's who did. Both in 2-3 year relationships. Do I have to be shot at to get your sympathy? One woman or three filling in all the pieces makes no difference to me, I got it right. No, when racists get shots popped off at them I still don't feel sympathy for them. Look... I know you don't like me. I don't care. How you respond to me says a lot about YOU. Ah then we have an understanding. You're back to your usual hypocrisy. That I have accumulated a low opinion of you over time by reading your racist and stunted attitudes says I'm not much different than anyone else who can form an opinion through reading. I don't like racists and to a slightly lesser degree, hypocrites. It has serious and long lasting consequences. Philosophy Majors don't cure cancer... and for some reason women still don't flock to the hard sciences. That is a gender imbalance that needs to be fixed as well. Cure for cancer or no, not being able to find employment to pay for health coverage will still mean you die of cancer. Why make a big deal out of long term consequences we've already been through with little fuss or concern? It will be weathered and fluctuate as all things do. It wasn't an act of misogyny when 44% of college students were female was it? Then its not some nod to misandry that the 44% is now male. 5 pages in... and look at who still hasn't condemned the article or it's author? I never cared if Woggle condemned the author or the article (but to the point yes he has several times) because its a stupid article by a stupid person. Most days I'm good at tolerating stupidity. Today I'm having trouble tolerating your stupidity. I'm already over the author's stupidity because she doesn't keep talking about her hateful attitudes in threads I participate in. Nope that's apparently your job. You'll pardon me if I really don't like hypocritical racists who whine about other people sounding just like them. You probably are only whining because she out earned you with her tripe and no one will pay you for yours.
Author Woggle Posted June 21, 2011 Author Posted June 21, 2011 Woggle, chill out. You don't need women haters to "stick up" for you. Leave the ignorant haters of whatever to themselves, unless you want to take action AGAINST hate. Hate does not solve any problems at all, it just exacerbates them. Social change brings a lot of pains and fosters a great deal of fear, ignorant backlash and misunderstanding. A social movement such as Feminism is not bad for men or society, just because it has helped to elevate women. People who misuse other people are bad for humanity (gender irrelevant) and society. When I read articles pretty much saying I deserved a good deal of the crap I dealt with when I did nothing wrong whatsoever to a woman to deserve it then yes I feel like I need to ally myself with somebody that will stick up for me even if they are woman haters. I will fully admit many of them are woman haters but many people on the other side of the gender war are manhaters and it makes sense to side with people who are fighting for your own gender.
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