musemaj11 Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 Feminism was intended to give everyone equal opportunity to pursue any life they wanted, not just women. Take advantage of that or don't. I don't see how its anyone's fault but your own if you don't employ what is afforded you. Feminism in the US has always been about a movement to accord women with benefits largely enjoyed only by males. Its not about equality. Feminists are basically 'pro-women lobbyists'. Their fight is not gender neutral. They are not fighting for male paternity leave like in Sweden for example.
Scottdmw Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 So you may all find this an interesting anecdote on this subject. In my immense frustration in dealing with trying to meet women, and especially with online dating, I decided to give the international online dating thing a chance. Right now I'm communicating with a woman from Sao Paulo, Brazil who is college educated, employed (at a solid career job), age-appropriate, attractive, speaks multiple languages including English well, and is potentially interested in moving to the US if things worked out with someone. We met on a site intended for very serious Catholics looking for marriage, so we have that in common and are both looking for that. Not to make generalizations based on one data point, but it has been a refreshing experience. She has promptly returned messages and even apologized if she didn't get back to me in a day. For Skype “dates” she has been flexible with scheduling-- she is not too busy to “meet”, whereas in the US I always find it's like pulling teeth to meet up even with a woman who definitely likes me, or even with a woman who is a friend and not a date. She has not exhibited any signs at all of the flakiness people are talking about here, and I have to admit I've really appreciated it. We’re planning to meet in a couple of weeks in person. While this is a rather expensive and difficult option, in my own case I'm thinking it may be worth all the trouble just to get away from all the gameplaying that seems to go on in the US. I'm not going to blame US women for all that because I think that men are also at fault (like a mutual arms race), but I have to admit for a person like me that doesn't want to be involved in that it's nice to get away from it. We'll see how things go after the in person meeting. Scott
Woggle Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 Feminism in the US has always been about a movement to accord women with benefits largely enjoyed only by males. Its not about equality. Feminists are basically 'pro-women lobbyists'. Their fight is not gender neutral. They are not fighting for male paternity leave like in Sweden for example. It hasn't always been this way. Recently it has become a haven for women who simply hate men but it wasn't always this way.
musemaj11 Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 (edited) So you may all find this an interesting anecdote on this subject. In my immense frustration in dealing with trying to meet women, and especially with online dating, I decided to give the international online dating thing a chance. Right now I'm communicating with a woman from Sao Paulo, Brazil who is college educated, employed (at a solid career job), age-appropriate, attractive, speaks multiple languages including English well, and is potentially interested in moving to the US if things worked out with someone. We met on a site intended for very serious Catholics looking for marriage, so we have that in common and are both looking for that. Not to make generalizations based on one data point, but it has been a refreshing experience. She has promptly returned messages and even apologized if she didn't get back to me in a day. For Skype “dates” she has been flexible with scheduling-- she is not too busy to “meet”, whereas in the US I always find it's like pulling teeth to meet up even with a woman who definitely likes me, or even with a woman who is a friend and not a date. She has not exhibited any signs at all of the flakiness people are talking about here, and I have to admit I've really appreciated it. We’re planning to meet in a couple of weeks in person. While this is a rather expensive and difficult option, in my own case I'm thinking it may be worth all the trouble just to get away from all the gameplaying that seems to go on in the US. I'm not going to blame US women for all that because I think that men are also at fault (like a mutual arms race), but I have to admit for a person like me that doesn't want to be involved in that it's nice to get away from it. We'll see how things go after the in person meeting. Scott Lol, you are a naive man. That Brazilian woman bends over backward to please you because she sees you a high value catch simply for the fact that you are an American man and you might give her the chance to come to America. It hasn't always been this way. Recently it has become a haven for women who simply hate men but it wasn't always this way. Okay, so please give me examples of how did feminism use to fight for male interests as well? Anyway, as for the topic at hand, it seems the answer is simply that women werent brought up with the same strong code of ethics as men were by society. Edited June 20, 2011 by musemaj11
thatone Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 The explanation for the glass ceiling is we are the ones giving birth and more obligated to their care than men typically are. The glass ceiling is our problem to battle by expecting our male partners to do more hands on care of the children rather than assume it all on ourselves. I don't blame men for this so I don't see how you could blame women for what men don't expect out of women. Humans will take advantage of any advantage afforded them. That's not a woman thing or a man thing. You're a bit confused. Not to mention how lovely it is that your values include that its okay to lie to women only (trust, y'all lie like rugs to each other all the time!) while you also complain about things you think only women can get away with. Oh Irony! there are in fact no women that i know of in the two states i'm familiar with, in the same business as me (i'm not employed by anyone else per se). http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2008/11/03/focus1.html “It’s hard for women to break into development as a rule because it is capital intensive and access to capital is a function of establishing relationships,” said Marianne Burish, commercial real estate broker and principal at Siegel-Gallagher Inc., Milwaukee. in this type of business, women cannot simply be women and expect to get their foot in the door. they have to prove beyond any doubt that they can behave like men and think like men. the few i know of who have tried have taken the attempt to 'behave like men' way too far and rubbed people the wrong way by being rude and dictatorial, thus closing any doors they may have gotten their foot into.
Scottdmw Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 Lol, you are a naive man. That Brazilian woman bends over backward to please you because she sees you a high value catch simply for the fact that you are an American man and you might give her the chance to come to America. I'm perfectly aware that's possible. It seems to me like a better option than what I've seen locally.
musemaj11 Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 (edited) I'm perfectly aware that's possible. It seems to me like a better option than what I've seen locally. Just be careful man. Being a little cynical goes a long way in protecting yourself. As someone who grew up in a third world country, I can tell you that you can be a nobody here in the US but in the eyes of women in poorer countries on the other side of the world, you are nothing short of god incarnate. Edited June 20, 2011 by musemaj11
Author sally4sara Posted June 21, 2011 Author Posted June 21, 2011 there are in fact no women that i know of in the two states i'm familiar with, in the same business as me (i'm not employed by anyone else per se). http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2008/11/03/focus1.html “It’s hard for women to break into development as a rule because it is capital intensive and access to capital is a function of establishing relationships,” said Marianne Burish, commercial real estate broker and principal at Siegel-Gallagher Inc., Milwaukee. in this type of business, women cannot simply be women and expect to get their foot in the door. they have to prove beyond any doubt that they can behave like men and think like men. the few i know of who have tried have taken the attempt to 'behave like men' way too far and rubbed people the wrong way by being rude and dictatorial, thus closing any doors they may have gotten their foot into. Your business is not the only business where in people have to establish good relationships. No where in that article did it state that the relationships established in your field were the most important or hardest to establish/ maintain requiring some special ability or the use of your penis and/or prostate. Only that in your field women can neither be womanly or manly and meet with the same success as men. Its funny that you think the reasons behind that rest entirely on women. What I've noticed is a tendency in men to approach business and dating the same. Where as women take a more passive approach to dating than they do business.
phineas Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 Even when they flake then promise to take me out to make it up.....they flake. I don't care why they do it. I've hit the point where, if a woman flakes on me she is done. They are ignored after that. If they text me out of the blue standard response is "who is this?", Then I continue to ignore. To do anything else is to invite further flaking & frustrations. Easier to just find another woman. If one isn't available, not having a date is preferable to having one cancelled last min.
Floridaman Posted August 5, 2011 Posted August 5, 2011 Interesting topic. SallyforSara, I want to PM you on something, but see I can't. See you're an established member, so can receive PMs. Can you turn on your PM function? Thanks.
Star Gazer Posted August 5, 2011 Posted August 5, 2011 Talking to other guy friends about his problem only reveals that this is just par for the course for men when dating. Ladies? What's with the inconsideration to other people you make plans with? If you don't really want to date them, why keep making plans? Just because you got a vagoo doesn't mean you should be rude like this. Ummmm, like every bad behavior in life, it's not just women. Men do it too. Except often they just fall off the planet instead of postponing. They set up a date for a particular day (like, drinks on Wednesday around 7), but leave the place in the air, and then never follow through...even when you reach out to them to finalize the plans. This has happened to me and many of my girlfriends.
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