Dust Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 If you’re Christian (for example) do you think the bible was literally written by god (instead of by people) and that every word is fact? For example stuff like god creating the earth in 7 days or making Eve from Adams rib etc.
Ross MwcFan Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 Very good question. I also wouldn't mind knowing from those who don't take the bible literally, how do they know what to 'cherry pick' as being the truth, and does the cherry picking include what is classed as right and wrong in the bible too (morals).
oldguy Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 (edited) Very good question. I also wouldn't mind knowing from those who don't take the bible literally, how do they know what to 'cherry pick' as being the truth, and does the cherry picking include what is classed as right and wrong in the bible too (morals). I don’t think it’s a matter of “cherry picking”, the Old Testament, imo, is a book of fables for the most. Not in a derogatory manner. The New Testament I strongly believe was assembled & heavily edited over the ages. Some of the editing was intentional, to serve “man” kind or the Church & much of it was misinterpreted through translations. It's still a "Good Book" in my opinion. I've never been able to read the Old Testament as a literal book, I've tried & just couldn't do it. Edited June 16, 2011 by oldguy
somedude81 Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 Even if the book was handwritten by God (it's not), it's been re-translated so many times, many things have been changed. Also who knows how many personal touches have been added and had things changed? It's basically playing telephone.
Feelin Frisky Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 I take it as literally man made. If people weren't told about the "stuff" of religion, there would be nothing in our natural experience which would cause us to invent it.
BetheButterfly Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 (edited) If you’re Christian (for example) do you think the bible was literally written by god (instead of by people) and that every word is fact? For example stuff like god creating the earth in 7 days or making Eve from Adams rib etc. The Bible is a group of manuscripts written by different people, spanning centuries. The first group (The Old Testament) is composed of writings from the Torah, the history of the descendants of Abraham, isaac, and Jacob, and the revelations God gave them of Himself. Moses and possibly Joshua, his successor, wrote down what happened in their time. It is possible that Moses also wrote down the stories handed down from generations from Adam to his time. Before writing, the people used storytelling and memorization to remember the past. As far as I remember, the only part of the Torah that was actually written by God was the 10 Commandments written on 2 tablets... that Moses broke in a fit of anger (at his people.) Moses was speaking to the Israelite people in the passage quoted below... I boldened some. Deuteronomy 4 (NIV) "10 Remember the day you stood before the LORD your God at Horeb, when he said to me, “Assemble the people before me to hear my words so that they may learn to revere me as long as they live in the land and may teach them to their children.” 11 You came near and stood at the foot of the mountain while it blazed with fire to the very heavens, with black clouds and deep darkness. 12 Then the LORD spoke to you out of the fire. You heard the sound of words but saw no form; there was only a voice. 13 He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which he commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets. 14 And the LORD directed me at that time to teach you the decrees and laws you are to follow in the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess." Some things that are important to remember about the Bible are the following: 1. God gave revelations about Himself and His expectations of His Creation to certain people. These people, or scribes who they dictated the words to, wrote them down. 2. The Old Testament of the Bible is based on the Tanakh, and is the history of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and their ancestors and descendants. Included in the history are revelations from God, God's commands, and events that took place. The history is objective in that it accounts both the good and bad. The history is subjective in that it is of a specific worldview. The Tanakh also includes prophesies. The Tanakh was written in Hebrew. Moses and Joshua, as well as scribes, wrote the original Pentateuch, and King David, and the sons of Asaph wrote most of the Psalms. King Solomon wrote Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, and the Song of Solomon, and prophets/their scribes wrote their prophesies and what happened in their times. 3. The New Testament includes the writings of people who wrote about what Jesus said and did, as well as letters from early followers of His. The New Testament, especially Mathew, stresses the connection between Jesus and how Jesus fulfills the prophesies concerning the Messiah which God promised the people in the prophesies. The New Testament was mostly originally written in Greek, though some scholars think Mark may have originally been written in Aramaic, the language that Jesus spoke. (Jesus also possibly spoke Hebrew - he quoted the Tanakh, and possibly Latin as well.) 4. People are human, lol. People make mistakes. There's all sorts of minor and major errors. Even today, people make errors, even with our lovely technology. Errors however do not invalidate the whole work. It just shows that humans aren't perfect. 5. The Bible is impossible to understand without God's Spirit teaching the reader, and without the reader seeking God with a sincere heart. God "hides" Himself from people because He wants them to seek Him and have faith in Him. So, the only way to truly understand the Bible is to ask God for help to understand, and seek Him. 6. Many people only look for what they want in the Bible. There are different versions, and there are different ways to interpret. Interestingly, how people interpret reflects their hearts. How they put into practice what they do reflects their faith and sincerity in what they read. 7. The Bible has impacted much of how people view morals today. Many of the Ten Commandments, for example, are taken as moral truths by many people who don't believe in God as well. For example, "You shall not kill." "You shall not steal." and so forth are well known moral guidelines for many people, regardless of belief in God. do you think the bible was literally written by god (instead of by people) and that every word is fact? For example stuff like god creating the earth in 7 days or making Eve from Adams rib etc. So to directly answer your questions, No, the Bible was not literally written by God. The Bible was written by many people spanning centuries. I do believe God inspired people. However, I also understand that people make errors. About God creating the earth in 7 days, I do believe that is true, though days/time is different for God than it is for us, so it is possible days stand for centuries. Time is very limited, and God is not limited. He is eternal, which is hard for earth creatures who have a beginning and end on earth to understand. God is an "alien" in that He is not of the earth. He made it, but He is not limited to earthly constraints, such as time, gravity, limited matter, and so forth. About Adam and Eve, yes I believe God created Adam and Eve as the account in Genesis says. However, God did not give the writers all the details, obviously. It is interesting how much knowledge God gives. I believe God has allowed people to use the brains He has given them to acquire more and more knowledge and to create things as well. Edited June 16, 2011 by BetheButterfly
Author Dust Posted June 16, 2011 Author Posted June 16, 2011 I’m curious how old are you? 7. The Bible has impacted much of how people view morals today. Many of the Ten Commandments, for example, are taken as moral truths by many people who don't believe in God as well. For example, "You shall not kill." "You shall not steal." and so forth are well known moral guidelines for many people, regardless of belief in God. This didn’t seem to stop us from dropping the atom bomb. The truth is killing is very inconvenient and puts the person doing the killing in a position to be killed/punished by individuals and society for reasons of self preservation and order. So not only do you believe god literally wrote the Ten Commandments but you believe this is the reason we aim not to murder and steal? So to directly answer your questions, No, the Bible was not literally written by God. The Bible was written by many people spanning centuries. I do believe God inspired people. However, I also understand that people make errors. About God creating the earth in 7 days, I do believe that is true, though days/time is different for God than it is for us, so it is possible days stand for centuries. Time is very limited, and God is not limited. He is eternal, which is hard for earth creatures who have a beginning and end on earth to understand. God is an "alien" in that He is not of the earth. He made it, but He is not limited to earthly constraints, such as time, gravity, limited matter, and so forth. About Adam and Eve, yes I believe God created Adam and Eve as the account in Genesis says. However, God did not give the writers all the details, obviously. It is interesting how much knowledge God gives. I believe God has allowed people to use the brains He has given them to acquire more and more knowledge and to create things as well. I’m a little confused on whether you take the things said in the bible literally. You said people who wrote the bible make mistakes. Then you also go on to say stuff like god created Adam and Eve. So you think there was a man named Adam and a woman made from his ribs named Eve who lived in the Garden of Eden in paradise until they were cast out and created all of us? (as opposed to the possibility of evolution)
Cee Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 When I was a child, I took the Bible literally and thought that people should give up their wealth, follow the Golden Rule, etc. And as I grew up, I saw how people twisted religious writing to justify murder and greed. It was quite depressing. I'm not religious anymore, but I'm still spiritual. I pretty much take religious writing like stories for reflection and moral development. I suppose people could take the Bible literally, but I think that would be akin to believing everything you read on the Internet.
Eve Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 If you’re Christian (for example) do you think the bible was literally written by god (instead of by people) and that every word is fact? For example stuff like god creating the earth in 7 days or making Eve from Adams rib etc. I don't think we are supposed to worship the Bible. I do not see the Bible as myths like the Greek gods and stories as such. As for a literal interpretation, I do believe that all that stuff happened from Genesis onwards. I read the Bible really for inspiration purposes because I see it as being more than a book. Rather it is a spiritual conduit, of which the pages are being added to by my interactions with others and all else that is happening in the world. Hence, I don't think the book/books will be finished until Judgement Day because we are the evidence of faith/lack of faith. .. but then again, I am highly aware of that which is supernatural. So this is no big thing to me. Take care, Eve x
aerogurl87 Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 I think the Bible is the word of God, every single line throughout it. But everything in it isn't literal like Jesus' parables or some of the stuff found in the book of Revelation. Some of it is metaphoric or symbolism.
aerogurl87 Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 I take it as literally man made. If people weren't told about the "stuff" of religion, there would be nothing in our natural experience which would cause us to invent it. But in order for it to be "made up" something in our natural experience would have caused someone to invent it. Every myth is rooted in reality, some are just more exaggerated than others.
KR10N Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 I'm agnostic but I'll participate. To me the bible is just a book w/ the intention of teaching the 'supposedly true' events as morales. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't believe in burning bushs or hippies that walk on water. Sorry, "people who take religion literally" these are just my views.
Disillusioned Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 Ya know, funny isn't, all these years and I still have no idea whether God is real---in the form of a disembodied mind who occasionally transforms from energy into matter to do things like hijack surgeons' scalpel hands or make faces appear on objects? With all the arcane test instruments I own, why can't I measure God's presence on any of them? And if he really is good, why does he let people get away with doing really evil things? If my cat could speak, could he tell me whether cats think God is a Supreme Cat? Does my dog think God is a Supreme Dog? What about the pomegranate tree in my yard? Thinking about this kind of stuff is enough to drive you meshuga!!!
quankanne Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 If you’re Christian (for example) do you think the bible was literally written by god (instead of by people) and that every word is fact? I believe the Bible is man's account of his spiritual journey, of how HE relates to God in his life. In that sense, it can be considered "factual" because it's a reflection of personal growth. But literally? And historically? Not completely, but then again, it's not meant to be historical or literal, just a documentation of that spiritual journey. And can therefore be considered God-inspired ... With all the arcane test instruments I own, why can't I measure God's presence on any of them? this has got to be one of my more favorite arguments, that if God truly exists, there must be visible proof. The question then becomes "how much proof is necessary to validate his existence," because you know someone out there is gonna nit-pick what "truth" is
D-Lish Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 If you're a Christian, you have to believe that the Bible is divinely inspired- that doesn't mean your god wrote it, only that HE (apparantly) inspired it. Divine Inspiration. Bottom line? No Omnipotent being could have inspired the bible. Hypocrisy is far too rampant.
Author Dust Posted June 17, 2011 Author Posted June 17, 2011 If you're a Christian, you have to believe that the Bible is divinely inspired- that doesn't mean your god wrote it, only that HE (apparantly) inspired it. Divine Inspiration. Bottom line? No Omnipotent being could have inspired the bible. Hypocrisy is far too rampant. D-Lish I take you literally!
Feelin Frisky Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 But in order for it to be "made up" something in our natural experience would have caused someone to invent it. Every myth is rooted in reality, some are just more exaggerated than others. Not at all. Ancient people did not have sophisticated language, scientific knowledge nor particularly efficient media to convey knowledge. So nature was explained all the time in "super-natural" terms. When people don't understand NATURE and run out of reasoning for how nature works, they conclude the next obvious thing--made-made SUPER-NATURE. Think of just this one thing and you have most of it figured out: the ancients and the primitives simply did not understand the most awesome force they faced day in and day out upon which their whole lives and futures depended. That force? Simply, "the weather". To people who did not understand the nature of the Earth being spherical and orbiting around the sun, weather seemed to come and go for no apparent or predictable reason. They wore inadequate clothing for extreme of weather, their huts and houses could blow away, rain and snow could come in, their crops, their live stock, whether or not they could believe in a future in which their children could survive all related heavily to the presence or absence (droughts) of weather. Check every indigenous society around the world today that still practices ancient traditions and you'll find that most of the hocus pocus and bead rattling is all about "rain making" or "good harvest" or surviving wicked winters etc. They try to influence the weather because if often seems "moody" to them. And naturally, not knowing how big the world really is, they assume they are the center of the world and the reason everything else exists and therefore they must influence either positively or negatively "he who provides". All religion has natural origins explained in supernatural terms by people who could not know any better. Even today, people say "pray for rain" or "pray for good weather" but this is all just hand-me-down tradtion that comes from the time when people thought the world was flat and therefore weather had no origins they could understand. There's nobody there to make it rain or not rain--as hard as that may be for some people to believe still today.
oldguy Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 Ya know, funny isn't, all these years and I still have no idea whether God is real---in the form of a disembodied mind who occasionally transforms from energy into matter to do things like hijack surgeons' scalpel hands or make faces appear on objects? With all the arcane test instruments I own, why can't I measure God's presence on any of them? 'There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy And if he really is good, why does he let people get away with doing really evil things? people of faith will speak of, man's, (& womans), 'free choice" when this question arises. If my cat could speak, could he tell me whether cats think God is a Supreme Cat? Does my dog think God is a Supreme Dog? What about the pomegranate tree in my yard? The ultimate act of arrogance is when man created God in his own image, i believe that's a line from dante's inferno.
shadowofman Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 I literally see the bible as organic literature which began out of organic oral tradition. For instance, the Garden of Eden and the fall from grace might be describing the human transition from hunter/gatherer to agrarian neolithic. Where the knowledge of good and evil might be translated to the knowledge of edible and inedible. Agriculture being the "tree" of knowledge. The apple being grains. Civilization occurs. Man becomes modest. Camps formed and wars were waged between farmers and herders, hence the Cain vs Abel story. Such stories can be traced to early Mesopotamian tales; stories slightly different with different names. As any great story is retold or rewritten, the tale may get taller. "Explanations" for natural phenomena are included. The literal stars in the sky personified. The story of Jesus is no different. There is more than enough evidence of pauperism to conclude one of two things: that Jesus is a simple retelling of earlier Christs, or that there really was a dude named Jesus at the appropriate time whom earlier tall tales were later attributed. Maybe it was Horus or Krishna that was first resurrected into the sky, but all of these stories are likely describing the sun and the seasonal resurrection of the Spring. Like all memetics, the story evolves and adapts to the current zeitgeist. Many "Christians" today might agree with everything I've said, accept evolution as the most logical creation, and still adapt their idea of God into a smaller gap (outside time and space).
denise_xo Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 In reality, it is impossible to take holy texts literally. Even the Saudis aren't able to do it, even though they claim they do. Any text (including holy texts) involve contradictions and competing principles that in reality have to be resolved by human judgement. Even from a religious point of view, the New Testament is written by humans and does not literally reflect God's word. However the Qur'an is, from a doctrinal point of view, literally the word of God.
Disillusioned Posted June 18, 2011 Posted June 18, 2011 I still think the ancient Middle East was chock-full of people who were prone to hallucinations.
Disillusioned Posted June 18, 2011 Posted June 18, 2011 'There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy Beings of spirit who can break the laws of physics are among them. people of faith will speak of, man's, (& womans), 'free choice" when this question arises. Yes, but that still doesn't tell me why some people do evil things and never get punished for it. The ultimate act of arrogance is when man created God in his own image, i believe that's a line from dante's inferno. Well, then at least I'm not as arrogant as I've been led to believe...
youngskywalker Posted June 18, 2011 Posted June 18, 2011 I'm not religious anymore, but I'm still spiritual. Honest question; I hear that spoken a lot but I don't know what it means. What does it mean?
denise_xo Posted June 18, 2011 Posted June 18, 2011 Honest question; I hear that spoken a lot but I don't know what it means. What does it mean? Krishnamurti puts it this way (where the last two 'religion' can be substituted with Cee's 'spirituality'): All organized religions are a matter of thought building a structure, a legend around a person or an idea or a conclusion. That is not religion at all. Religion is a life that is lived integrally, wholly, not fragmented.
quankanne Posted June 18, 2011 Posted June 18, 2011 that still doesn't tell me why some people do evil things and never get punished for it. That's because they don't live in Texas, dear When people don't understand NATURE and run out of reasoning for how nature works, they conclude the next obvious thing -- made-made SUPER-NATURE. I'll buy the supernatural theory ... and will go one step further to say that there are a lot of folks out there who believe in the cucuy (ghosts) and spirits and angels, and are accepted, but add God to the mix of Supernatural, and people get up in arms for some reason ...
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