Should I hang out with his ex? She doesn't know we're dating.

[Ludmila]

This is a really weird situation and I could use some help with it if anyone can spare a moment.

 

I had a thread a few weeks back about a man I've known about 6 months, and not sure if he is actually dating or seeing me or not...he is still being really vague about it, but since the other thread, we've slept together again, though we got interrupted and then he went home as he said he 'wasn't sure he should be doing this'.

 

that upset me as I didn't know why he was having such reservations...he also said he has 'no resistance' which made me feel like he just needed sex, and didn't want to lead me on.

 

But during all this his behaviour remained totally focussed on us, on me, I was looking after his kids all the time, he was spending all his free time at my house and us at his house, he even wanted to stay here while I went shopping, with all our kids, instead of going home. And he looked after mine, and he helped when I had a birthday party for one of them - he was travelling on business that day but he made sure to get his car diverted here, so he could come to the beginning of the party and make sure I was Ok (I was nervous as his ex was bringing the children).

 

So, that was all wonderful. He stayed till his ex arrived, and then he had to leave. I got talking to her and she is really lovely, although it's not clear whether she knows we're seeing each other - even I don't know! And I know he doesn't want me to tell her.

 

She invited me over with the kids one day while he was away, and I didn't want to be in that situation but felt obliged. So I went and luckily another friend was there so it didn't get too awkward. But she kept on about the man I've been seeing, (her ex) and saying things like he was always the only man for her, and she cleans his house when she goes round there (I never noticed, I'm there a lot) and how he cheated on her a long time ago (I knew this - he already told me, and it happened both ways).

 

I wasn't sure if she was trying to warn me off, or put a claim to her territory, or something, or was just being chatty and normal. I am useless at telling if someone is trying to be manipulative. maybe she wasn't.

Anyway I didn't tell her about 'us'.

I was so glad to leave, I felt awful, like I couldn't bond with her as I couldn't be honest. I just kept really quiet.

 

He got home and went away again a day or so later, we didn't talk in that time - then yesterday he was home, and i had offered by text to take his son to a game, and his ex replied, saying could I do that please - and telling me when he was getting home, which I didn't know as he didn't reply to me.

I felt like she was trying to be our go between and stop me having too much contact with him. So I was nice and said yes, that's fine.

 

Then she asked us for a picnic at the weekend and I made an excuse because really it's too much for me to deal with - I like her but I don't understand the dynamic. He doesn't want her to know we're close, but she clearly knows we're friends, as I always have their kids here.

I feel I'm not allowed to be honest with her, and I don't want to lie to her, and it's just too complicated.

 

what should I do? My instinct is to ask him to make it clear what he is doing, with me, so at least I can get my head around it. People keep asking me, how's it going with you two, and I say 'well I don't know'.

 

Sorry, that's so long. I hope someone got to the end.

[Ludmila]

I ought to say, his ex has a new boyfriend and seems very happy with this - we have all met the new boyfriend. He is great too.

 

I just don't know what I am meant to do, or whether she would even want to hang out with me if she knew I'd been sleeping with her ex?

 

I feel so guilty and sad and I don't feel comfortable getting any closer to her, when I'm in love with her ex.

[Ludmila]

Well I guess it was a boring post...but I'll reply to myself!

 

His ex has been calling me a lot but I have turned off my phone, she also invited me to her birthday party by SMS and I've said I can't go but I hope she has a good time.

 

I spoke to him and he says he doesn't see why there is any division of loyalty, or any problem, but he also doesn't see why we would be friends as we are so completely different.

 

Anyway she sent me a few SMS during the week suggesting we go on a picnic this weekend, I said no, as I have family commtiments. They spent this morning together with the kids, then he called me and asked me and my kids to go someplace with them, but this included his ex (it's 'Father's day' here in the UK - special occasion). I made an excuse and we didn't go.

 

I feel freaked out. It's like she is so persistent, I realise now this suggestion of an outing at the weekend was for me to go along with her AND him and their kids, like they are still a family and she needs to prove this to me.

Like I'd be watching them play at being a happy family. I don't want to watch their relationship, and I really didn't want her observing my interactions with her ex. He told me she knows I fancy him. So it feels like she is deliberately trying to rub salt in the wound and make sure I know he is taken. (he's not, though, they divorced three years ago)

 

I feel sick. I don't think I want to see him again if he can even think about putting me in that situation where we are all together, me and him and his ex...just imagine the dynamics involved. It's horrible.

Do you think I should just leave them to it?

 

I just feel so upset, and I wish she would stop calling me.

[Ludmila]

Thankyou...I didn't get am email that someone had replied, so I gave up hope...sorry. I can see that she would want to get to know me, but if I'm not in a relationship with him, well, there's no point. If I really was seeing him, then it would be much clearer and easier to meet with her 'as his girlfriend' and take it from there. But I'm not anything.

 

yes, we don't seem to be in a relationship. It's weird, we have had sex twice, but a month apart and the last time was a month ago now.

 

I had enough after my last post and I decided I could not be around him any more as it was way too painful. So I told him, no more sex and no more friendship...I was really upset and cried a lot. He was shocked and insisted we stay friends. I said I couldn't, and he needed to leave me alone for a really long time. He said he would respect that but hoped we would eventually be friends again.

 

Then he called me the next night when he knew I'd likely be asleep, and left a message to say he was checking I was 'feeling better'. I replied in the morning saying I wasn't, but he couldn't make it OK, so thanked him for being nice.

Then his ex called me to ask me to take the kids, which I agreed to, and then he called me asking me the same a couple days later. Like I'm the default childminder.

I would have felt mean saying no so I agreed. Since then we have not discussed my meltdown. But we have spent most days in contact, the children stayed here Friday night, then he took us all out on Saturday to a movie and lunch. It all seems back to normal. But we don't know what each other is feeling or thinking.

 

I'm beginning to think he is not the right guy for me. He still goes out with his fairly immature friends and I'm not invited. I don't even like some of them.

I think I have sussed him out - he misses having a wife around to do stuff with, to organise him, to have the children etc. But if he knows I want sex, he won't have it, because it makes him feel like he is promising me something which he cannot promise, ie some form of commitment.

 

Trouble is being the 'wife substitute' is a huge commitment I'm giving him and his children, and he knows this, but at the same time I want to be the one he calls. I don't want someone else stepping in to this role.

 

I just wish we could have more sex, I think. And that's probably because I would see it as him being committed.

I can't see this ending well tbh.

[Ludmila]

I just figured...this is like an affair but backwards!

 

Normally the man wants sex but not to be around the woman he's seeing all the time.

 

Mine wants the being around thing, but won't have sex! And while the mistress would normally be hanging in there not wanting to give up what she already has from him, ie the sex, and is holding out for more,

 

I'm hanging in there being the attentive partner while holding out for him to just f*ck me. It's exactly the same isn't it.

 

[whichwayisup]

He's using you. It's that plain and simple. Not malciously but selfishly.

 

let me ask, does he pay you to look after his kids? Does his ex? If no, then yes, he IS taking advantage of you, even more so since he knows you're into him and want more than he can give you.

 

You ended it and he hasn't left you alone. How respectful is that? Yet he uses the fact he needs a sitter or someone to help out around the house to contact you.

 

The choice is yours. Stay and continue to be used or end it and find someone (once you've healed) who will treat you better and love you the way you deserve to be loved.

[whichwayisup]

I just figured...this is like an affair but backwards!

 

Normally the man wants sex but not to be around the woman he's seeing all the time.

 

Mine wants the being around thing, but won't have sex! And while the mistress would normally be hanging in there not wanting to give up what she already has from him, ie the sex, and is holding out for more,

 

I'm hanging in there being the attentive partner while holding out for him to just f*ck me. It's exactly the same isn't it.

 

 

You may not want to hear this, but there's a pretty good chance he's still having sex with his ex. Lots of people who are broken up and have kids do have sex .. it's safe and familiar, and easier to do with no strings attached.

[confusedgirl85]

I think you should talk to the guy and ask whats going on with you both. If you're his girlfriend, you both go and talk to his ex and let her know that. If you're just friends maybe you should avoid all contact with him because clearly thats not what you want.

 

Talk with him... let him know how you feel, and dont feel so bad for the ex, she's trying to hard to be friends with you.... its weird!

[Ludmila]

He's using you. It's that plain and simple. Not malciously but selfishly.

 

let me ask, does he pay you to look after his kids? Does his ex? If no, then yes, he IS taking advantage of you, even more so since he knows you're into him and want more than he can give you.

 

You ended it and he hasn't left you alone. How respectful is that? Yet he uses the fact he needs a sitter or someone to help out around the house to contact you.

 

The choice is yours. Stay and continue to be used or end it and find someone (once you've healed) who will treat you better and love you the way you deserve to be loved.

 

Thankyou for your kind and considered replies, just to answer your questions first, no, he doesn't pay me. He does however reciprocate in a sense. Like when I had had his children on Friday night, he suggested we go to the movie and get lunch and he paid for all of us. He said if I wanted to, I could go off and do whatever and he would just take care of the kids, but something stopped me leaving them to it. i think I wanted to be part of it, I didn't want the reciprocation at all really, I just wanted him to want to be with me. And I don't think he did really. I don't know.

 

He actually said the other day - I was talking about how his ex wants to have my kids one day after I've looked after theirs, and he said, that's just because people don't want to take advantage of you. He said that he hoped he didn't seem like he was taking advantage of me and I said of course not.

 

But then, you're right, he did ask me to take the kids that morning. And he had said he would leave me alone. No, it's definitely not malicious whatever he's doing. I think we just confuse each other with our actions and motives. I don't know what his masterplan really is - every time he's mde it clear he's gone back on it. I think that's very unfair, even a bit cruel.

I don't think he quite knows what I am OK with either. He sometimes just says he doesn't know what he wants and the rest of the time we don't discuss it much.

[Ludmila]

I think you should talk to the guy and ask whats going on with you both. If you're his girlfriend, you both go and talk to his ex and let her know that. If you're just friends maybe you should avoid all contact with him because clearly thats not what you want.

 

Talk with him... let him know how you feel, and dont feel so bad for the ex, she's trying to hard to be friends with you.... its weird!

 

 

The trouble is, he will never own up to being my boyfriend. He just won't. It almost seems like the whole fun, the whole point for him is to pretend we do not need each other, while actually we really do. If I said that to him he would say no, and go off on his usual spiel about how attractive he finds me, how much fun I am and how he enjoys spending time with me, but he doesn't think we have what it takes to make it in the long term. And then I will get a little tearful while I'm washing his dishes, and he will say, 'Aw, no tears now' and come and kiss my forehead, and then later we'll have sex.

 

The ex seems to have stopped calling, well, at least for the time being. Maybe since I declined her offer to have my child after school. I think she might get the message. I just can't be both their friends. Or maybe he said something to her...hope not though.

 

I take your point whichwayup, about them possibly sleeping together, but she has a brand new guy who is very evident, has met all of us, he's lovely and she is very keen on him I think. so I doubt they would get away with it, even if they wanted to!

 

I think I do need to walk away actually, but it is very hard as the children are so involved. He was talking about it long term in that sense - oh it won't be long before they can walk between our houses, sort of thing. He is very invested in the set up as it currently stands. Plus he needs my help.

It feels like swimming against the tide to actually cease being friends, his kids come up to me after school most days, ask if they are coming home with me, his son lifts up my toddler and cuddles him etc. How would you even start to break that up?

Maybe I should go with it for the time being and just chill out about wanting more. Maybe, if we don't 'do it' for a while, he might begin to want to again (in fact I'm certain he already does) and that might be what he wants - that I'm not expecting anything to happen and he can take his time.

I need a mind reading tool

 

thanks again for all your help.

[in_absentia]

The trouble is, he will never own up to being my boyfriend. He just won't. It almost seems like the whole fun, the whole point for him is to pretend we do not need each other, while actually we really do. If I said that to him he would say no, and go off on his usual spiel about how attractive he finds me, how much fun I am and how he enjoys spending time with me, but he doesn't think we have what it takes to make it in the long term. And then I will get a little tearful while I'm washing his dishes, and he will say, 'Aw, no tears now' and come and kiss my forehead, and then later we'll have sex.

 

Oh my god... 'own up' to being your boyfriend? He ISN'T your boyfriend and he doesn't want to be, he won't want to be. He's telling you loud and clear that he doesn't want you and doesn't think you'd work in the long run, listen to him! You're setting up yourself for way more pain if you keep being this delusional.

 

It sounds like he's got you flattering his ego, looking after his kids, having sex with him, all the while being totally honest that it's going nowhere... I don't know how he's done it, other than that you're infatuated and, as I say, delusional. And possibly very low self esteem...

[thatone]

i agree. if he's ok with you looking after his kids but not ok with telling his ex that the two of you are together? that's a huge issue. glad i'm not those kids of his, he sounds like a pretty terrible person.

Edited June 27, 2011 by thatone

[Ludmila]

thanks, I think...

 

sorry if I sound deluded. I'm trying my best here. Everyone thinks we are together - people I don't even know and haven't told about it, think we are together. That's just from us spending all the time together.

 

And we do have sex, so it's not entirely delusional to think we are having some form of relationship, is it? Even if he isn't my boyfriend.

 

But Confusedgirl85 said I need to talk to him and 'if you're his girlfriend...' so I was replying to that. Truthfully I've no idea at all if I am or not, because of the way he behaves - telling me I'm not, telling everyone else we're not in a relationship, but at the same time sleeping with me, and spending all his time with me. (or a lot of it)

 

So what do I believe? His words or his actions? He says it's not a relationship but it patently is, of some sort at least, and when he says this he then starts acting even more attached than before and we end up in bed.

 

I'm not dragging him there. My head says believe what he's telling me, but when I try to walk away, he gets really worried and starts chasing me up.

 

I can't seem to win, I feel like I'm on a fairground ride and I'm going to get hurt whichever way I play it.

[Ludmila]

Oh my god... 'own up' to being your boyfriend? He ISN'T your boyfriend and he doesn't want to be, he won't want to be. He's telling you loud and clear that he doesn't want you and doesn't think you'd work in the long run, listen to him! You're setting up yourself for way more pain if you keep being this delusional.

 

It sounds like he's got you flattering his ego, looking after his kids, having sex with him, all the while being totally honest that it's going nowhere... I don't know how he's done it, other than that you're infatuated and, as I say, delusional. And possibly very low self esteem...

 

I think what it comes down to is, if he doesn't want to be with me, why is he being with me now?

 

and why wouldn't he let me leave, when I told him I wasn't up for continuing as we are? Why does he need me around so much if I mean so little to him?

 

I'm very committed and I can't sustain it without a similar commitment from him, but he isn't willing to offer that so I told him it has to stop - fair enough, I was protecting myself as you suggest.

 

But then he insisted we stay friends and called me asking me to have the children again. Is that truly all he is getting from this - the fact I look after them, flatter him and want to have sex with him?

 

Maybe you're right, Neal, and he is a terrible person. I don't think he means it though...he is very popular and everyone likes him. I cannot imagine using someone in that way, if it's actually what he is doing...it's really cruel if so

[thatone]

i admittedly have little experience dating people with kids, since i actively avoid women who have kids. but the few single women i know who do have kids make it a point to not let their kids meet anyone until they're past dating and into a relationship.

 

i think that's a pretty fair and reasonable plan of action. for him to let someone take care of his kids and let his kids get attached to that person, when he has no intention of keeping them around for any length of time, just seems cruel and unfair to the kids to me.

 

and if he'll be like that to his own children....

[Yookie]

I think what it comes down to is, if he doesn't want to be with me, why is he being with me now?

 

and why wouldn't he let me leave, when I told him I wasn't up for continuing as we are? Why does he need me around so much if I mean so little to him?

 

It's simple. He gets all the benefits of a relationship and free babysitting without having to make a commitment. He can go out with his silly friends and you can't say a thing about it because you are not officially his woman. He can go out and have sex with any woman he wants (including the ex if she's willing) without any guilt because he never made a commitment to you. If he meets a women he really wants to have a relationship with, then he can move on without blinking an eye since you two never had a committed relationship.

 

If he's having a dry spell and needs sex, then you're there willing and waiting.

 

You need to really put your foot down and end this madness. He doesn't want a committed relationship with you. Put your big girl panties on and cut off contact so you won't allow him to use you in your weak moments.

[Ludmila]

Thankyou both for your insight. Neal, I hadn't thought about it in that way. Only in the sense of my having involved my own children withhim and his family, before being certain anything would come of it.

 

But he has allowed this in a big way and he won't 'let' me stop it now that he has made it so clear he doesn't see us having a future together...he is so, so keen for our children to be together as much as possible, but he isn't thinking of how it will affect them if he suddenly finds a new partner and we don't see each other any more.

 

It was always going to involve them though, so from that POV it wasn't really possible to keep the kids on the back burner till we had made a commitment. It's through the children's school that we know one another.

In hindsight I think I should have done nothing from the off, and left him to it - he approached me and invited me round, in the beginning. I wish I hadn't picked up that invitation and carried it further.

 

Yookie, I can see what you mean - he does get all of that without having to commit. I on the other hand am putting in a massive commitment and not getting it back.

 

You are right that it needs to stop - it's agonising - but I don't know how to do it. I've been lying awake trying to figure out how I split up our families and whether i have justification for this - after all I carried on being committed after he said he wasn't going to be. I will feel horrible if I say, no more, and withdraw my commitment.

 

I just can't think how to do it.

 

This morning we took our children for an early coach trip, and in the crowd of parents he came and stood right by my side, without touching. He walked home while I drove and he kept sending me text messages about what he was doing.

I went round after my younger child was at daycare, and he carried on with his business, discussing it all with me as he made calls and wrote emails. At one point I sketched him, while he was working at the desk.

 

Nothing physical happened, not even a hug or kiss on the cheek, and so after an hour I left to do some of my own stuff. I was aching for some physical contact. I didn't dare to even bring up the subject. He makes me feel so small.

 

Any advice on how to actually put a stop to the pain of this would be greatly appreciated, because I keep telling him I can't bear it, and he still calls me. Sorry if I seem like a big wuss. It's very hard to see it objectively from inside the situation.

 

Thankyou so much for taking the time to reply, all of you.

[Ludmila]

Sorry, what |I mean is, how in simple terms should I respond to him? Should I stop answering his calls entirely?

 

He has agreed to take my son to a football game on Friday; I can't do that. And he said he was going to ask me to do some favour or other, too, but couldn't remember what.

 

It's such a tangled mess.

 

I thought I could approach it in the manner of 'what happens when you find someone you really, really like - if we continue with what we're doing, until that happens, it will be really bad for them, it'll be like splitting up a family. I think we need to scale down their involvement now, because the longer this continues, the more upsetting it will be for them when it ends.'

 

He will probably say that even if he does find a girlfriend, the kids can still play together and so on, nothing will have to change. But it will.

 

Perhaps he doesn't really want a girlfriend at all, and that's why he can't look ahead to a situation like that.

 

It is the summer holidays soon. Maybe we can start to see less of him when we're not meeting in school every day.

[Yookie]

In order to get out of this situation you're going to have to be really strong and talk to yourself constantly about why you are doing this. Sort of like being your own cheerleader.

 

1) Tell him point blank that you can't do this anymore and MEAN IT. Tell him him if he has one ounce of compassion for you he will respect your wishes and do NOT call you again. He's not going to believe you and still try to call so...

 

2) Do not answer his calls. Do not call him. If he comes to your house do not let him in. Tell him to go away or you will call the police. If he comes over more than once tell him you will get a restraining order if you have to.

 

3) In public do not let him engage you in conversation. Just say "I have to go" and get out of there fast. You may have to dodge him more than once before he gets the message. You may have to wear an mean face when he's in the vicinity for a while so he will know you mean business.

 

4) It's ok to talk to his the kids as they have done nothing wrong but I would advise against having them over until you are free from the emotional attachment with the father.

 

5) If possible go away for a while with your kids to get some breathing room. Perhaps stay with some relatives? The change of scenery may strengthen your resolve.

 

6) You will miss him and his kids. Talk yourself out of settling for less than a full committed relationship! Remind yourself how terrible it feels to be around this man who gives you no love in return.

 

7) Date other people! Please do yourself a favor and pursue other relationships or even just get out there in other social situations to mix and mingle a bit. Fill up your time with fun activities.

 

That's all i can think of at the moment. Good luck hon.

[Yookie]

Oh by the way here a link to get more advice on this topic. This guy writes a relationship blog and has had many ladies write in with stories that sound similar to yours.

 

Read the articles in the section entitled: If You're Dating a Man Who Won't Call, Commit, or Make An Effort for You.

 

http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/best-of-evan-marc-katz/

 

[Ludmila]

Thankyou so, so much. You're really kind - in fact everyone has been really kind and I am grateful to have a place where I can ask people what to do.

 

I don't think I can be totally mean, but you're right, I need to have a steel wall inside my head that he can't get through, and then it doesn't matter if I am friendly to him, because it won't mean anything to me.

 

Thinking about how unhappy it makes me, having no love in return, is something I feel will help a lot, because it's true. And even if he doesn't mean to do it it still makes me miserable - I actually feel as unhappy as I did when I was having an affair with someone attached, many years ago.

 

I found that hard to walk away from as well - there's something in me that seems to attract itself to painful relationships. Maybe it feels very familiar to me.

 

Thanks again and I will look at the link, too. Take care, God bless.

[Ludmila]

Just a little update if anyone is interested.

 

I'm doing Ok. This week has been pretty stressful and at one point I got very upset about the ex, because she was being very difficult to cope with.

 

I also spoke to some mutual friends who were really helpful and mentioned things I hadn't known about before.

 

So I know I'm not going mad, now.

 

Anyway, I was booked to have the children for him overnight tonight, and I have cancelled on him for the first time ever.

 

I said I wasn't feeling up to it.

 

If it was an emergency I would not hesitate but it isn't.

 

At the moment, I feel as though I am out of there. He doesn't understand that the more time we spent together, the more attached I got and that meant when he did find someone he wants properly to be with, I'll be really hurt.

 

I just imagined him taking some other woman home after the party, while his kids slept here with me - in my bed, usually, so I get no sleep at all on the couch. I can't keep doing it. I've had enough.

 

Thankyou for all your enouragement and wisdom, it has helped me reach this point where I feel so strong, and like I don't need him after all. I am sad about the ending of hope, thats all.

 

But I need to move on and this time, if/when he tries to stop me, I will move on anyway.

Edited July 9, 2011 by Ludmila
too much information!