We were to be engaged ... Until ...

[JazzyFox]

It was still a secret. Our families were to be told at an upcoming family bbq we were hosting in a few weeks. We had picked out the ring, ordered it, and then the s$#% hit the fan.

 

We've been dating for 6 months. We've taken several vacations, spent time together 24/7 in our respective homes (when not working), staying at his place during the week, and my place on the weekends. We are both approaching 40, never married, no kids. He was quick to speak of love, marriage, kids. We get along great. We see eye to eye on family, goals, careers, finances, etc. We both have high-powered jobs. Love came easily.

 

But something was festering inside of me. His place was a mess. Not unsanitary. But terribly, horribly cluttered. His place looked like a garage, with storage shelves all over (6 in all). My decorating sense was aghast. I tried being subtle. I tried explaining. He resisted my suggestions. I asked him to come up with solutions. He said he didnt see the problem. I told him I was tired of living in my suitcase. He made some room for me in the closet, giving away half of his clothes to goodwill. Well, no, not really. He packed them in bags and put them on his back balcony. And there they stayed for weeks.

 

I tried to be a better example. So when we were at my place, I would try and ask his help to fix things, things that I had ignored and procrastinated for a long time. He loved to tease me about it. I thought we were making progress. We spent hours at ikea, and home depot, looking at storage solutions for his place (and clutter).

 

But then things werenot getting fixed. He was too tired after work, and he wanted to spend our weekends going on trips instead. I guess for him, it was a problem easier to ignore. But I wasnt ignoring it. Everyday I would get increasingly frustrated. I would try and talk about it, but he would tell me that I was nagging him on things for which we already had a plan. We just needed more time.

 

Last week I blew a gasket. He had the audacity to tell me that he was indifferent to the small changes we had already made to his place. I felt discouraged, underappreciated and that I had fallen in love with a child who couldn't make the effort to make the bed and pick up after himself.

 

He left for work before I did. And as I was brewing over my coffee, I started to pack my things. Within an hour, my stuff was in my car and I was gone. I cancelled all our joint appointments for the next 2 months in my blackberry (including our "secret" engagement party) and left him a short letter in the kitchen saying that I would miss him but that perhaps we had rushed things, and perhaps it was best that I let him live his life the way he sees fit.

 

This happened 7 days ago. Last night, despite his protesting, we went for supper together to a fabulous restaurant and had a lovely meal. It was great to see him, and hug him and kiss him. The first hour was fine. And then he told me that what I did was unacceptable. If it had been anyone else, it would have been OVER. He would have changed the locks. "what will you do when we have real problems?", he said, "this doesnt bode well for our future". I asked him what stopped him. He didnt answer. He told me he spent all weekend (2 12 hour days) going through boxes of stuff. He threw out 20 industrial garbage bags, and sent me the picture. He ordered the furniture. He arranged for his brother to help him next weekend. He said that he had weeks of work ahead of him, and that what he did last weekend was only the tip of the iceberg.

 

He called me crazy, an annoying nag, obsessed with clutter and "hiding" things behind cabinets. I asked him if he had anything nice to say. Silence. I apologized for acting rashly. I asked him if he understood that we both created this problem. He refused to see the role he played. This was all my fault. My crazy obsession for cleanliness. My constant nagging every day. He was tired of it. He was tired of me.

 

I asked him if he wanted me to leave him alone. He was ambivalent. Do whatever you want. I asked if I could help him. He said no.

 

I left,in silence. I sent him an email when I got home, thanking him for dinner, and apologizing for my "nuclear" reaction and forcing such a heavy chore and burden on his shoulders. He responded this morning to say that what I had done was unacceptable, and that it would take a long time before he could forgive me. He wanted to focus on the work in his place. He hoped it wouldbe cathartic to clean out his closets and old boxes. He felt that it was a good methaphor to work through.

 

Meanwhile, the ring has arrived. He sent me a picture and said it wasbeautiful.

 

So, what do I do now? Was I wrong for complaining about his place? What should I do "if" we get backtogether?

 

Help!

[sandcast123]

My advice would be to slow way down. Six months, even if you are age 40, is a short time to date and know you want to be married. Some couples do it but not too many. I would advise a minimum of a year of dating before engagement, preferably longer.

 

I dated a person who was a "hoarder" and I wonder if your man is. When he cleaned out his closet, he stored the clothes on the porch - classic hoarding behavior. Can he throw things out? Is there any area of the house that is not cluttered? Does he save everything? Hoarding is a psychologically based condition and lots to work through. It doesn't change just because you get containers or new shelves. It is deeply rooted in a person and very hard to change.

 

Maybe there is something to salvage but the fact that he is blaming you for everything doesn't sound good. Slow down and be careful. Wishing you the best.

[JazzyFox]

My advice would be to slow way down. Six months, even if you are age 40, is a short time to date and know you want to be married. Some couples do it but not too many. I would advise a minimum of a year of dating before engagement, preferably longer.

Yes. You are probably right. Ive tried to slow things down, but then he would say that he wold not ask me to marry him again. So I felt that maybe the best would be to be engaged for several months instead. At the same time, I am looking forward to getting married. Well, that is ... iF we get back together.

 

I dated a person who was a "hoarder" and I wonder if your man is. When he cleaned out his closet, he stored the clothes on the porch - classic hoarding behavior. Can he throw things out? Is there any area of the house that is not cluttered? Does he save everything? Hoarding is a psychologically based condition and lots to work through. It doesn't change just because you get containers or new shelves. It is deeply rooted in a person and very hard to change.

 

Yes and no. That he spent the weekend tossing stuff is a good sign that "no". But I do believe he has the tendancy to avoid conflict, and resolving issues ... Hence blaming me as the source of the problem, and playing the victim. Needless to say, this issue will have to be addressed IF we get together again. That said, he is supersmart and a bit hypercritical on himself, and I really think that when his anger cools down that he will see my point of view.

 

I must say that last night I already saw a benefit of his cleaning process. He was more energized than ever, exciting to be with and really funny. I had a great time! (yes, despite the fact that we were dsicussing our problems)

Maybe there is something to salvage but the fact that he is blaming you for everything doesn't sound good. Slow down and be careful. Wishing you the best.

 

Thanks for the insightful reply! Hope to see more ...

[sandcast123]

I would also suggest going to see a counselor if you can. Going on a pretense that you are making a monumental life decision and you want to be sure you are on the right track - thinking things through, etc. Not going on the reason that you are in conflict - he is less likely to go if you say it is to figure out your problems. However, talking about marriage with a third party clarifies things - there are lots of psychologists doing a brief premarriage counseling series of visits to help folks avoid divorce. I would bet you could find someone to talk with. Better to go in with your eyes wide open now and know what you are signing up for.

[Eeyore79]

It seems a shame to dump an otherwise decent man just because he's untidy. If he's loyal, trustworthy, faithful, committed, kind, loving, non-violent, hard-working, has no addictions - being untidy just seems such a small thing to complain about, especially because it's something that can be addressed. I'm sure there are a lot of people on these boards who wish the only problem they had with their partner was untidiness!

 

The fact is, he doesn't actually mind his place being untidy - you're the one who isn't happy with it. Yet you're not willing to do anything about it yourself - you want him to do a huge tidy-up job just to please you. You want him to come home from work and immediately start doing housework, even though he's already tired and has worked all day in a high powered job. You want him to miss out on weekend trips and other things, and spend his time cleaning his home to meet your standards.

 

To be fair, I think if you're the one who's bothered by the clutter then you should be involved in cleaning it up! It's reasonable to expect him to work with you and clean the place up together, but it isn't fair to expect him to do the whole thing himself just to please you, especially when he's happy with it as it is. He'll probably find it a lot easier to keep things tidy once it's all sorted out; maintaining tidiness is a lot easier than starting from scratch and clearing the whole place out. In the long run it might be worth hiring a cleaner for a couple of hours a week if it saves arguments - you should be able to afford it as you said you both have high powered jobs.

 

I agree with what he said though - it doesn't bode well for the future if you're willing to end the relationship over something as petty as housework. A marriage has to endure trials which are a lot harder than simply tidying up, and you already showed your willingness to walk away when faced with the slightest problem. If you're willing to leave the guy over housework you obviously don't love him that much; certainly not enough to marry him. Nothing on earth could part me from my man as long as he loves me and treats me well - he could be terminally ill or severely disfigured and I'd still stand by him. You, on the other hand, left your man because he doesn't pick up his socks and make the bed. Perhaps you need to consider whether you really love him at all?

[wilsonx]

It seems a shame to dump an otherwise decent man just because he's untidy. If he's loyal, trustworthy, faithful, committed, kind, loving, non-violent, hard-working, has no addictions - being untidy just seems such a small thing to complain about, especially because it's something that can be addressed. I'm sure there are a lot of people on these boards who wish the only problem they had with their partner was untidiness!

 

The fact is, he doesn't actually mind his place being untidy - you're the one who isn't happy with it. Yet you're not willing to do anything about it yourself - you want him to do a huge tidy-up job just to please you. You want him to come home from work and immediately start doing housework, even though he's already tired and has worked all day in a high powered job. You want him to miss out on weekend trips and other things, and spend his time cleaning his home to meet your standards.

 

To be fair, I think if you're the one who's bothered by the clutter then you should be involved in cleaning it up! It's reasonable to expect him to work with you and clean the place up together, but it isn't fair to expect him to do the whole thing himself just to please you, especially when he's happy with it as it is. He'll probably find it a lot easier to keep things tidy once it's all sorted out; maintaining tidiness is a lot easier than starting from scratch and clearing the whole place out. In the long run it might be worth hiring a cleaner for a couple of hours a week if it saves arguments - you should be able to afford it as you said you both have high powered jobs.

 

I agree with what he said though - it doesn't bode well for the future if you're willing to end the relationship over something as petty as housework. A marriage has to endure trials which are a lot harder than simply tidying up, and you already showed your willingness to walk away when faced with the slightest problem. If you're willing to leave the guy over housework you obviously don't love him that much; certainly not enough to marry him. Nothing on earth could part me from my man as long as he loves me and treats me well - he could be terminally ill or severely disfigured and I'd still stand by him. You, on the other hand, left your man because he doesn't pick up his socks and make the bed. Perhaps you need to consider whether you really love him at all?

 

can i give you my ex's phone number please!

[JazzyFox]

It seems a shame to dump an otherwise decent man just because he's untidy. If he's loyal, trustworthy, faithful, committed, kind, loving, non-violent, hard-working, has no addictions - being untidy just seems such a small thing to complain about, especially because it's something that can be addressed.

...

 

You, on the other hand, left your man because he doesn't pick up his socks and make the bed. Perhaps you need to consider whether you really love him at all?

 

Eeyore, you are right. Its a very small problem in the big scheme of things. On that, we both agree.

 

He is a wonderful person. I want to help him. He refused. I don't know what to do to fix this.

 

My reaction was immature. On that, we both agree. I had reached a level of frustration that I did not know how to handle. I tried talking to him, but he would stonewall me. At the time, I didnt see another alternative then asking for a "time out" and retreating back to my "cleaner" house.

 

But his pain is deep. He sees my actions as a supreme rejection. He doesnt want to talk to me, or see me. I dont know what to do to fix this. And I dont know what to do to prevent it from happening again.

[Eeyore79]

He is a wonderful person. I want to help him. He refused. I don't know what to do to fix this.

It doesn't sound like you really offered to help him. Judging by what you said earlier, you made suggestions and said you were tired of living out of your suitcase (which he perceived as nagging), you "tried to be a better example" (hoping to motivate him to tidy up by himself), and you took him to Ikea (again, making suggestions but not actually doing anything practical). What you didn't do is actually roll up your sleeves and start tidying up - as I said before, you want him to do it all, even though he isn't the one who's dissatisfied with the state of his house. If you don't want to do the housework, how can you expect him to do it when he's happy with the way it is?

 

The only solution I can see is for you to schedule some cleaning time on an evening or weekend, and both of you tackle the job together. He'll be motivated to tidy up if you're doing it too, and once it's all done it will be a lot easier for him to maintain it.

 

At the time, I didnt see another alternative then asking for a "time out" and retreating back to my "cleaner" house.

You didn't ask for a "time out" though. You packed all your stuff, canceled your appointments and ended the relationship. He now (quite rightly) feels that you aren't committed to the relationship because you dumped him and walked away. You can't just dump someone whenever you feel frustrated, because it leads to insecurity and mistrust - no matter how bad the disagreement is, you should never dump someone unless you really truly mean it. You're lucky that he agreed to get back together, but it will take some time to regain his trust.

[JazzyFox]

Well now, let's not jump to conclusions.

 

I did clean up. Swept the floors, cleaned the bathroom, shopped for groceries, made the meals, did the dishes. I was beginning to feel like a maid.

 

And then to add to my frustration, he didn't even notice or appreciate it. He said he was indifferent. WHAT?

 

I was trying to be supportive and patient. 3 months of living my weekdays in a pigsty. I would bring up the topic, only to be shot down. Only to be told that I was the crazy obsessed one.

 

In the last week, our arguments had become a twice daily affair. We needed a time out. I never dumped him. I just wanted him to stop taking me for granted, hence the cancelling of appointments. My emails and letters only said the same. He assumed it was over. And yet, he quickly got to work on my list of "unacceptable" gripes.

 

I don't want to be his maid or mother.

[Eeyore79]

You didn't initially mention that you'd already cleaned up at his place and done dishes etc. What did he do while you did these tasks? Did he clean up too? I still think the best approach is for both of you to schedule some time to attack the mess together - he'll be more receptive if you're willing to share the task with him. Don't do any more cleaning while he sits on his ass; he needs to do his share otherwise you'll end up being his maid, but he's more likely to do it if you do some cleaning at the same time.

 

I can see things from your point of view - you thought you were doing him a favor by cleaning up, and you expected him to be grateful but he was indifferent. But from his perspective, you did the cleaning for yourself, because he isn't bothered what state the house is in. He thinks you should be grateful to him for cleaning, because he doesn't care about it and only does it as a favor to you.

 

If you want to persuade him to do the cleaning, you have to frame it differently. At present you're exerting negative pressure on him by making him feel bad if he doesn't clean up; you need to reverse that and exert positive pressure by making him feel good when he does clean up. Make him feel like he's doing you a huge favor by cleaning (yes, even though it's his house!), and praise him effusively; tell him what a great boyfriend he is because he cleaned up just to please you. When he takes the trash out, thank him and tell him he's so thoughtful. If he sees that you're happy when he does these things, he's more likely to do them of his own accord, especially if he gets praised and rewarded for doing it.

[Arikel]

Well, he did listen to you and tried to make a change, thats a plus point.

 

However, I understand how small frustrations can just blow up into a major nuclear reaction. I think he should have listened to you and tried to see where you are coming from, BUT I do not know his original level of cleanliness vs what your standards are.

Perhaps you could consider it from his point of view, are you overly tidy?

 

I found your description of his behaviour after you left rather .. annoying. Blaming you for everything, not looking at his own behaviour. On the other hand, you did just pack up and leave, AND cancel future appointments (I assume with other people?) and thats not just rejecting him, thats also humiliating to announce your breakup before he was even aware of it. So I get why hes really angry too.

 

And the thing is.. I know this is rather unfair .. but you're moving into his house. How long has he been living there? Has he always lived alone? You haven't moved into his place.... and yet you are making changes for him? Thats a bit .. presumptuous maybe?

 

I hope you guys manage to work it out, because you do sound like you love him, and from his actions he does love you enough to try. But I think pre marriage counselling to discuss this kind of small, annoying issues would be a good idea.

 

Also, I'm thinking if you do officially move in with each other, it would be a good idea to sort out some boundaries and limits to housework. And also, if it came to moving in together, maybe a new place that you could 'build' together rather than one moving into the other persons space.

 

All the best

[JazzyFox]

Yes, and no. For dishes and the like, I would often do it when he was there. Sometimes he would go and work at his computer. But often he would come up behind me and hug me, and tell me that I didnt have to do it, that he would do it "later". But then since I was often home a little earlier than him, I would often try and do these little cleaning chores when he wasnt around. I didnt want to waste our "coupletime" doing chores. Which is why he often didn't notice it.

 

He does do lots of chores. He does the laundry, sometimes cooks me breakfast or dinner, does the groceries some of the times, and always makes my coffee in the morning (sugar, cream, and all). He makes sure the fridge is stocked with the things I like. He is attentive. To the things that he feels are important.

 

As for the mess... this is something he has let go for many years. It has stockpiled to a point of being a mental handicap. I think that he saw it as such a huge challenge, that it was easier to keep ignoring the problem and just deflecting my "criticisms", "harping", and "nagging" back towards me.

 

I think he will eventually see the benefit in doing it. But in the meantime, he hates me for making the issue his sole priority. He hates the hours he spends going through abandoned boxes and shelves. He hates parting with his stuff. He hates that its such a huge task. And in part, Im sure he hates himself for having let it go for such a long time. But he's proud. And it's easier to deflect his anger back to me.

 

As for "my space", "your space" ... we had agreed weeks ago that now, both of our homes would be "our space". We agreed that we would start working on the changes we would need to make in our respective homes.

 

After a few weeks I told him that it wasnt going to work. We would need to leave both our homes, and move into a new place. Start fresh. I thought it would help resolve our issues as we would need to define new standards. But then, he started arguing with me that I was the one with the problem. That I was the one who was obsessing with "putting away stuff and hiding it". And that's when I blew my lid.

 

That's when I realized that until we tackled this problem that he had been ignoring for years ... that we would be carrying this beast around with us for years to come. I went nuclear, and packed my things. Tough love, perhaps.

 

But I don't want to be his maid or mother.

 

And yet, I love him.

 

I haven't heard from him in 2 days. It's tough.

[nikkinicole36]

Honestly you both sound like you're sabatoging. You both are stonewalling each other and not compromising. If I didn't know better I would of thought you both were 17 (no offense to 17 year olds, because some of them are very mature!). You both should be asking yourselves how committed you are to this relationship or relationships in general. No offense about that, but considering the fact that you both are approaching forty with no marriages and kids says that you both have a track record in relationships. Maybe that needs to be explored a little further. People would say "Oh we just hadn't met the right one!", but when you pick apart each other, there is no room for the other to be the right one. If you are both really seriously wanting to be in this relationship together you should get pre-marital counseling right away. If you don't you both will allow selfishness and petty arguements to ruin what could be a really good relationship. Communication is key. A lot of the stuff you did was a bit passive aggressive in trying to get him to clean the house instead of just sitting down and having honest dialog about how you felt about the junk in the house. You felt taken for granted, but he never asked you to do any of those things. As women we sometimes get into June Cleaver positions and then resent a man when he's not overly thankful that you are acting like his mother. Stop doing as much, talk to him and then give him room to meet you halfway. When someone pushes you to do something it is human nature to want to do the opposite, as we tend to resent being pushed into anything. It's the same feeling if you go shopping. If someone is harping on you to make a purchase you are more likely to walk out of the store without anything due to the high pressure sale tactics.

Edited June 16, 2011 by nikkinicole36

[JazzyFox]

17? Really?

[JazzyFox]

Communication is key. A lot of the stuff you did was a bit passive aggressive in trying to get him to clean the house instead of just sitting down and having honest dialog about how you felt about the junk in the house. You felt taken for granted, but he never asked you to do any of those things. As women we sometimes get into June Cleaver positions and then resent a man when he's not overly thankful that you are acting like his mother. Stop doing as much, talk to him and then give him room to meet you halfway.

 

Totally agree. We had the talk. Weeks ago. We had a plan. He just wasnt meeting the deadlines. Things were not moving ahead.

 

And when I would bring it up, he would tell me that I had to stop nagging him. And that I was crazy and obsessed over it. Jokingly, of course.

 

But as we all know, there is usually a lining of truth in every joke. And I didnt appreciate it.

 

It was time for me to stand up for myself.

[Eeyore79]

It's tough to tackle such a big task when you work full time and are tired when you come home from work. There are other chores to be done, plus he needs time to relax so he's understandably reluctant to give up his remaining free time to sort out his junk. He cleans as much as he feels is necessary; you have no right to insist that he conforms to your standards of tidiness, if he tidies more than he feels is necessary then he's doing you a favor.

 

He doesn't want you to be his maid or mother. He doesn't want you to tidy up at all. He's happy with things the way they are. You're the one who isn't happy, who insists that things have to be tidier - but you expect him to be the one who tidies to your standards.

 

The last thing you want to do is nag him and make him hate you - or worse, make him angry and defensive so he blames you for trying to be too controlling. That isn't the way to encourage him to tackle the issue. Block out some time together to do some tidying (maybe a few hours at the weekend) and then reward him with something fun afterwards. Or since he lacks time in his busy schedule to tackle the issue, how about you both take a day off work and just tidy up together?

[JazzyFox]

Thank you Eeyore. You are absolutely right. (although I did suggest the vacation thing ... but he would rather spend the time taking a trip far away)

 

Ok, let's see if I can recap my "lessons learned":

- apply appropriate reactions to appropriate situations ... ie, don't go nuclear over an unmade bed

- make sure that we have reached a "common" understanding of what our new "standard" is, before applying it

- don't just fill in the gap to "my" standard, discuss it and implement a plan

- make sure the plan has a reasonable and pre-agreed upon deadlines

- agree what needs to be done, and split the work

- don't run away when things get difficult

 

 

Now, here is a bigger question ...

- how do I learn to "let go", "relinquish control", and stop "imposing my standards" on him

- how do I learn to control my emotional outbursts when he isn't listening

- how do I learn to stand firm and face the truth (about me, about him, and about us) and not just run away

[WhisperinnWinds]

There's a lot of stubborn behavior on both sides. I think the need to be 'right' in the situation is going to cloud over any attempt to get things moving. He wants to be right and he wants to perceive you as a nag. Whenever a subject comes up - like cleaning - and he doesn't like it, it's going to make you "obsessed."

 

Some issues are huge for some folks and not for others. Clearly, cleanliness is very important to you. And it's not so very important to him. Fortunately, you are only six months into this investment - compared to years in. He doesn't seem all that receptive to doing things to make you more comfortable in the house - since he thinks they're fine for him. I can't speak for everyone, but as a host, it would disappoint me if a guest didn't feel comfortable in my house - or if they didn't have room to put their things. I would make some effort to try and help out. He doesn't seem as devoted.

 

My feeling is that you shouldn't be doing any housework in his place. If you are uncomfortable at his place, send a message - stop going over there. Invite him to your place instead. If he asks why, give him concrete explanations about what's bothering you ("The closet is so cluttered with clothes I can't climb in. I want them to get moved and put away. The floors are covered with grime. They need to be mopped.").

 

My feeling is that no one should be telling a man in his 30s or 40s how to take care of his place. If you have to, it's because it's probably not the best match. If you can tolerate cleaning up after him, cool! But in your case, it seems a bother - and it's a bother to him to have to put up with a cleanlier person. But, it also depends on other things you have going on in your relationship. In other differences between the two of you, will he brush you off as 'obsessed' if something's bothering you?

[JazzyFox]

Thanks Whisper for your thoughts.

 

You know, we don't really disagree on anything else. We see "eye to eye" on most everything, especially the important topics.

 

And of course, he is very easygoing and conciliatory. And, I am a bit obsessive. Im a bit of a bull in a chinashop. And he is the china. Happy to watch me crash through.

 

;-)

[Eeyore79]

My partner and I have a similar problem. I'm not the tidiest person, and he's obsessive compulsive about cleaning to the point where he gets annoyed if something is an inch out of place. But our relationship is good and we love each other, so we deal with the situation in several ways:

 

1) He acknowledges that his standards are unrealistic, and doesn't expect me to meet them or punish and nag me if I don't. He's grateful as long as I make a reasonable effort.

 

2) I do certain housework tasks as a favor to him. I don't really think they need doing as often as he wants them done, but I do them to please him, and instead of taking it for granted he recognizes that I'm making an effort to please him and is appreciative. His appreciation motivates me to continue doing these tasks.

 

3) We split chores so I do more of the laundry, cooking, dog walking and gardening, and he does more of the cleaning as this is where he finds my efforts inadequate. Sometimes he re-cleans things after I'm done if he doesn't think I did it properly, but he never nags me when he decides to do this, and I don't take it as an insult.

 

4) We do chores at the same time, because I feel more motivated to do housework if we do it together and for a limited period of time. If I have to clean to please him, it feels more fair if he's also cleaning at the same time.

 

5) If the cleaner comes for a hour, it counts as my share of housework if I pay her.

 

6) We have agreed that just because the tins in the cupboard don't all have the label facing in the same direction (also because the hangers in the closet don't face the same way, etc) this is not an expression that I don't love him, but is merely an expression that I'm not an obsessive nut like he is.

 

7) When he complains that his knife is dirty and I take it back into the kitchen, he doesn't ask whether I just rubbed it on my tshirt and gave the same knife back to him. He's just grateful that I bring it back clean and refrain from stabbing him with it, even when it's the tenth time that week that he's complained about his knife being dirty.

[JazzyFox]

Holy cow eyore, thats' quite the gap. We have a similar gap in that im about an average in the messy/clutter/not passing the vacuum department, and his place looks like a garage or shed filled with years of clutter and junk (oldcomputer parts, broken fans, water bottles meant to be recycled, etc) ... Yes, level 1 hoarder. Recoverable, but with some effort. Nothing is piled on the floor, but the closets are stuffed and counter space is premium real estate.

 

The bedroom has no dressers for clothes, but only 4 plastic shelving units (the kind usually found in a storage shed) where he piles clothes on 2 of them, and spare parts, boxes and cd's on the other 2. He likes to "see" his stuff so that he knows when he runs out. He accuses me of "hiding" my clutter.

 

Not quite normal. Incredible that none of his past girlfriends cared enough to complain.

 

Guys, help me out here ... Is this an xy chromosone thing?

[Eeyore79]

Guys, help me out here ... Is this an xy chromosone thing?

I don't think so... I'm the girl in our relationship, but he's the one who's obsessive about cleaning. He's been known to re-vacuum the floor after I already did it, because I didn't vacuum in parallel lines to make the pile of the carpet lie in the right direction

[Graceful]

I don't think so... I'm the girl in our relationship, but he's the one who's obsessive about cleaning. He's been known to re-vacuum the floor after I already did it, because I didn't vacuum in parallel lines to make the pile of the carpet lie in the right direction

 

Your partner might very well have OCD. Has he seen a therapist or ever been diagnosed? You and he might be dealing with it well in your own way, and even find ways of being amused by it, but it's not really a laughing matter.

 

He's trapped in a world of obsessive behavior and thinking that way is pathological on his part. It sounds like you're dealing with it very well in your own way, but there may be some techniques and other behavior modification methods he could employ that would really make life a lot more pleasant for both of you. If he has never been diagnosed, he should see a physician and talk about his behavior and get connected with a therapist who might be able to shed some light on OCD for him.

 

For the OP / J-Fox: The hoarding is also a sign of possible OCD. I don't think you handled the situation all that well, but I think you've been taking an awful beating in your post here. I don't think most people understand what you may be experiencing with this man. Under no circumstances should you consider moving in with him, let alone engagement, until you see a couples counselor and get all your cards on the table. There is a huge issue here, and it's not going to get resolved on its own, and certainly not without an intermediary who is impartial, to discuss it with. You can't do this alone. Take care and good luck.

[JazzyFox]

Thanks eeyore and graceful.

 

I have spent much time on this and similar threads over the last few days, and talking with friends, and reading articles online about hoarding and symptoms and causes. It's actually been incredibly insightful.

 

I did not act with the level of emotional maturity that I expect of myself. I can and will work on the things I mentioned in my previous postings.

 

Although he is ignoring me for now, he does seem to be tackling his demon, and that does give me hope for the future.

 

That said, I will make sure that we seek couples counselling together, and I will probably seek it for myself regardless. I also need to work through the emotions of how I got to this place to begin with. Perhaps I was too desperate for love, at any price. Perhaps I don't set high enough standards. Perhaps I don't love myself enough.

 

For now, I'm still in a tailspin, and I am looking forward to working through this.

[JazzyFox]

He's been busy at work, and sending me pics of his progress. He's scrubbed the kitchen, made the bed, set up the furniture, cleared a lot of the clutter.

 

And he is coming over to my place tomorrow!