Next steps?

June 26, 2011

Dale, I feel for Loni since she clearly doesn't understand she's going to get nowhere with you. Glad to see your thread today. Good luck.

Pierre, yes, I've seen all that. Wife said all the ILY's and that to the OM. But that's all done now. She chose me and will continue to do so. She knows what she has. Her transfer will likely happen in he near future. Estimate is that they will work together about another six days. She's committed to NC forever once it happens. Is there a risk? Sure. Of course, you have a risk with any relationship but in mine, she's paid a heavy price for having made it the first time and she knows it'll not go away anytime soon. She won't be doing that again.

June 26, 2011

How would you know if they did or did not??

Are you actually now claiming that you got permission to give this person's e-mail to me?

Very well, what is the e-mail?

June 26, 2011

She stays with you because she also loves you. However, her love for you is different. It is the long term attachment love that also comes with kids, family, friends, mortgage, retirement plans. etc.

OTOH, the love for OM is the initial romantic enchantment of a young relationship. Apparently these two very different forms of love can coexist and that is why wayward wives often say "I love you, but, I am not in love with you" to the husband.

It gets worse. This initial romantic love is much more intense in extra marital affairs because of the intrinsic hurdles. Love with hurdles is more intense than love without hurdles.

It can be argued whether both of these are love (then again, no clear cut and universally accepted definition covers that), but I agree, these can coexist.

It's up to BS to decide, whether he/she wants to be associated with chores though.

June 26, 2011

Are you actually now claiming that you got permission to give this person's e-mail to me?

Very well, what is the e-mail?

What I said is that you don't know what I have. Since I have talked to him he has met someone and I think remarried so I won't share his email address but I will PM you his screen names on marriagebuilders and you can look it all up for yourself.

For someone who uses the screen name "Repair Minded" you don't really seem to be. Just because you're not interested in what I have to say doesn't mean that anyone else is not.

I am here to help Kidd.

June 26, 2011

Oh, it seems that you don't accept private messages. Wonder why that is exactly?? Too much hate mail?

June 26, 2011

Would you like for me to share that person's email address with you so that seems credible to you? Because I can.

No idea about private messages but it doesn't matter anyway since you contradicted yourself. You said you could share an e-mail, now you're saying you can't.

June 26, 2011

Congratulations! What has he won, ladies and gentlemen?!

Those that wish to PM me, please do. Unless you're an *********.

June 26, 2011

Congratulations! What has he won, ladies and gentlemen?!

Those that wish to PM me, please do. Unless you're an *********.

What I'm really curious to know is, what nine-letter word beginning with a vowel wouldn't make it through LS's profanity filter?

June 27, 2011

No idea about private messages but it doesn't matter anyway since you contradicted yourself. You said you could share an e-mail, now you're saying you can't.

I didn't say that I can't share it with you- I said that I won't share it with you due to the fact that the last time I chatted with him he was in a new relationship.

You can go to the forum and read for yourself. Long time poster on there named Melodylane that I am sure is still there. You have to register at that forum. Sign up for yourself and make a post to her and ask her yourself if it's a good idea for a BS to give his WW the site address before they are in recovery-ask her if posts there have not been used against people before.

You're right though, RM- you're so much more credible than me-considering all of the time you have built up here posting and helping people.

June 27, 2011

Congratulations! What has he won, ladies and gentlemen?!

Those that wish to PM me, please do. Unless you're an *********.

Kidd- I am so sorry- you just have to put people like that on your ignore list if they bother you. I've been here a little while and those kind of people rarely last. They either get banned or give up posting. They are really angry at someone else and just want to take it out on someone-and they can't take it out on the person they want to take it out on,

June 27, 2011

Like anything else, experience counts. It's the same when advising on LS and especially on the marriage forums. Many, if not most who post here are experiencing the most emotionally difficult time they've ever known. This can bring out the best, or worst in people. I'm not a moderator or an expert, but I read carefully before responding...or responding to responders.

I like much of what RepairMinded has to say, but most of his posts are simply too long for me to read. This is frustrating. I dislike the 'wide-brush' approach that JMK and some of the the others bring to the table, yet agree with much of what they have to say. There are many different personalities expressed here and I've learned a lot...especially from those who I initially disagreed with. If I can spot those with an agenda, I assume everyone can.

Kidd, you have a lot of support. Set your boundaries and fix your sights on the happiness you seek. For me, healing began when hostility ended.

June 27, 2011

I didn't say that I can't share it with you- I said that I won't share it with you due to the fact that the last time I chatted with him he was in a new relationship.

You said you "can" share it. Why would you say that in the first place, if you weren't going to?

You can go to the forum and read for yourself.

I have no interest in doing so. You stated that can share an email with me; now you don't want to. I'm fine with that.

Long time poster on there named Melodylane that I am sure is still there. You have to register at that forum. Sign up for yourself and make a post to her and ask her yourself if it's a good idea for a BS to give his WW the site address before they are in recovery-ask her if posts there have not been used against people before.

No, you said you can provide the email, I challenged you whether you could or not, you again insinuated you had permission to do so, then I invited you to do so to call your bluff, and proved it was a total bluff on your part.

You're right though, RM- you're so much more credible than me-considering all of the time you have built up here posting and helping people.

You got caught in a lie right on-board, about providing the email, which I don't even care about since I knew you were bluffing anyway, and just proved it. Don't put that on me.

June 27, 2011

I like much of what RepairMinded has to say, but most of his posts are simply too long for me to read.

Sorry about that. I'll try to sum things up briefly:

--kidd let this thread go on for many pages and hundreds of posts before casually letting it slip that he cheated on his wife first, and also let hundreds of posts go by before disclosing that he also discussed [TABOO SUBJECT REDACTED] with his spouse.

Meanwhile he feigned ignorance that either his prior cheating or [TABOO SUBJECT REDACTED] might have weakened his marriage or caused long-term damage to it which may have contributed to his wife's affair.

Now he's in a form of denial in which all of a sudden he thinks he has his wife "back" even though she's still in daily contact with her OM at work and therefore by all objective measures of infidelity experts and publications recovery, if it's possible, hasn't even BEGUN yet.

When called out on these and similar issues he like a lot of other posters got hyper-defensive and babyish. He only wants subjects discussed "his" way and wants to be coddled.

Sorry I don't do that.

Hope this was concise enough for you.

Edited June 27, 2011 by RepairMinded

June 27, 2011

Perhaps he is a consultant and gets paid by the word. , like you steadfast I usually tune out of his posts by the 5th or 23rd paragraph..... Not saying I disagree with everything he has to say either, but I'd go blind trying to read the massive posts.

My issue is these select few posters have been asked AGAIN and AGAIN to leave this thread be and they are just too full of themselves to do so. With any luck the moderators will deal with those few posters. Although one never knows.

Kidd I will discuss some of these issues with you in PM as it appears that is the only way we'll be able to talk without all this nonsense.

June 27, 2011

Instead of putting all the facts out on the table, you decided you wanted to post your story, looking for validation and calling those who didn't coddle you, bitter and jaded.

Interesting observation.

One thing I have noted from reading these boards, is that there seems to be something almost like a "cheater's mentality" (even on an anonymous message board!) where a lot of people with that mind-set just can't seem to come to grips with the idea of "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth." There is always something, sometimes very significant, "left out". It could be a seemingly small piece of the puzzle but often ends up being important way out of proportion to the amount of words devoted to it.

That "mindset" seems as you observe to be in furtherance of personal validation rather than laying out all the facts needed to understand a problem for the purpose of trying to actually solve the problem.

Kidd mocked the notion that his wife may have been unfaithful to him at some other point that he doesn't know about--"she did it 45 times"--no she didn't do it 45 times, but what about once or twice?--someone else said "yes maybe she had an affair with Osama Bin Laden."

And these same mocking posters think or claim to be "helping."

Now I'm seriously wondering whether kidd only cheated on his wife that one time he admitted to. When you throw in [TABOO SUBJECT REDACTED] and his completely oversensitive reaction to legitimate commentary, plus his wish-fulfillment mentality which is part of the "cheater's mindset" arsenal, you have to wonder how much other stuff he's left out of his story.

June 27, 2011

Perhaps he is a consultant and gets paid by the word. , like you steadfast I usually tune out of his posts by the 5th or 23rd paragraph..... Not saying I disagree with everything he has to say either, but I'd go blind trying to read the massive posts.

My issue is these select few posters have been asked AGAIN and AGAIN to leave this thread be and they are just too full of themselves to do so. With any luck the moderators will deal with those few posters. Although one never knows.

Kidd I will discuss some of these issues with you in PM as it appears that is the only way we'll be able to talk without all this nonsense.

Kidd has absolutely no right whatsoever to ask "a select few posters" to leave the thread. This is a public discussion forum and the fact that he is over-sensitive to points of view which he doesn't feel validate his existing opinions and plan of action, perhaps even critical of him, is simply a matter of his learning some level of maturity in having a discussion of this nature.

Obviously he is free not to have opened his discussion publicly and he is free to take it private. The rest of us are free to continue the discussion and if kidd has some problem with that I guess he could ask the moderator to lock the thread.

When you attempt to validate kidd in the notion that only opinions that he likes are fair game in a public discussion forum which he initiated, you do him no favors in learning how to "deal."

June 27, 2011

Kidd has absolutely no right...

Sure he does. What he doesn't have is control to back it up, so he's (apparently) taken the only available course and left on his own. This is an option we all have. Whether or not it's a good or bad decision only he will know.

This thread stopped helping a long time ago. The fact that he once cheated was initially omitted is one of several nails hammered into mush. There's a critical difference between talking 'with' and talking 'to' someone.

Some do post looking to validate their position while others are truly open to suggestions and advice on how to handle an issue. Some responders connect and others don't. Sometimes our advice isn't taken, appreciated or even recognized, but there's no need to take it personally. Just move on.

June 27, 2011

You said you "can" share it. Why would you say that in the first place, if you weren't going to?

I have no interest in doing so. You stated that can share an email with me; now you don't want to. I'm fine with that.

No, you said you can provide the email, I challenged you whether you could or not, you again insinuated you had permission to do so, then I invited you to do so to call your bluff, and proved it was a total bluff on your part.

You got caught in a lie right on-board, about providing the email, which I don't even care about since I knew you were bluffing anyway, and just proved it. Don't put that on me.

Oh, of course you are so right- I'm caught in a lie. Whatever you want to say-you assume you're right anyway. The whole premise for this whole entire pissing match you want to get into with me was that you don't believe posts have been used in court against the BS-and I provided you with the means to verify that they have been.

Kidd-rather than asking certain posters to leave your thread you should just put them on your ignore list. If you are uncertain how to do that please PM me and I will let you know how to do it and you can continue to post on your own thread=getting the advice you're interested in getting. I assume that I am on that list-since you have sent me a PM for advice.

June 27, 2011

Sure he does. What he doesn't have is control to back it up, so he's (apparently) taken the only available course and left on his own. This is an option we all have. Whether or not it's a good or bad decision only he will know.

This thread stopped helping a long time ago. The fact that he once cheated was initially omitted is one of several nails hammered into mush. There's a critical difference between talking 'with' and talking 'to' someone.

Some do post looking to validate their position while others are truly open to suggestions and advice on how to handle an issue. Some responders connect and others don't. Sometimes our advice isn't taken, appreciated or even recognized, but there's no need to take it personally. Just move on.

While his inital infidelity in their dating relationship was wrong-it certainly isn't the same as her cheating this many years into their marriage-especially if he disclosed that infidelity and she forgave him for it before they married. Cheating while dating is not the same as cheating during marriage, IMO because you're not standing before God and making a vow with that person. It's wrong-but that is one reason you get married- to forsake all others. You don't make that vow when dating-for obvious reasons.

June 27, 2011

Cheating in a relationship is wrong. The vows are moot.
Not verbalizing vows does not excuse cheating.

She didn't say it wasn't wrong (in fact she said it WAS wrong), just that it wasn't as bad as cheating in a marriage, and I agree.

June 27, 2011

Sure he does. What he doesn't have is control to back it up, so he's (apparently) taken the only available course and left on his own.

That's not the "only course." He could remain a part of the public discussion. Same as you, posting right now.

This is an option we all have. Whether or not it's a good or bad decision only he will know.

Running away from facing the difficulties of one's own life is never a very good solution.

This thread stopped helping a long time ago.

Sorry but you're not omniscient. Kidd might still be reading even if he chooses not to post any longer. We also know his betrayed spouse, OMW, and presumably OM might be reading it as well. And hundreds or thousands of other lurkers and members of LS might be reading it.

The fact that he once cheated was initially omitted is one of several nails hammered into mush. There's a critical difference between talking 'with' and talking 'to' someone.

Since we're all on opposite sides of a computer screen, we're not "with" each other no matter how you want to split hairs.

Some do post looking to validate their position while others are truly open to suggestions and advice on how to handle an issue. Some responders connect and others don't. Sometimes our advice isn't taken, appreciated or even recognized, but there's no need to take it personally. Just move on.

You do what suits you, I'll do the same, thanks.

June 27, 2011

If they are in a committed relationship without the ring it's still bad and traumatizing to cheat. The commitment doesn't change when a ring is on the finger nor does him cheating before they got married, excuses his actions.

The point isn't to split hairs about whether cheating after marriage is "worse" than cheating before marriage. Obviously that's what kidd believes and I guess other people as well.

The point is to be able to look reality in the face and acknowledge that--if you do end up getting married to the person you had previously cheated on--it's going to have some kind of a negative impact, and it might have a very serious negative impact, especially if it wasn't dealt with fully or appropriately when it happened.

June 27, 2011

Oh, of course you are so right- I'm caught in a lie.

No comment necessary.

Whatever you want to say-you assume you're right anyway.

Your words speak for themselves.

The whole premise for this whole entire pissing match you want to get into with me was that you don't believe posts have been used in court against the BS-and I provided you with the means to verify that they have been.

Except that I never said anything of the kind. Obviously people might be able to use public internet postings against a wayward spouse in court, or vice versa. The entire subject was an irrelevancy that you brought up for some reason. You then offered to provide an email address proving something that no one except you thought was any kind of an issue. When challenged to provide it, you refused.

Kidd-rather than asking certain posters to leave your thread you should just put them on your ignore list. If you are uncertain how to do that please PM me and I will let you know how to do it and you can continue to post on your own thread=getting the advice you're interested in getting. I assume that I am on that list-since you have sent me a PM for advice.

This is why it's pointless to play these kinds of games on a public internet public message board. Once a public thread has been started, people like kidd can't rely on strangers such as Ms. Pixie to keep their confidentiality. Ms. Pixie was ready to disclose information about someone else on another message board, until challenged as to whether she had permission to do so. Now, assuming she has been PMed by kidd, rather than maintain his confidence, she blabs it right back into the public thread.

Ms. Pixie you were the one who stated with assurance that these threads can be possibly "used against" someone by their spouse in a divorce. You've now divulged that you and kidd are PM'ing each others. Obviously THOSE messages could be retrieved on the same basis you claim that the public thread could be.

June 27, 2011

I suspect Kidd's wife never forgot the cheating and used that to justify her own affair. Cheaters find much more lame excuses to justify cheating.

Obviously but the problem is kidd waited for over 300+ posts before mentioning that he cheated first.

Also the issue of the "taboo" subject of opening up the marriage, which since kidd has apparently departed the thread entirely, is fair game for discussion again. If a husband tells his wife he wants her to have sex outside the marriage, with another man; or that he wants to have sex with other women; or that he wants a threesome (I believe kidd referenced a threesome but he didn't clarify whether it was contemplated with a man or a woman); how does that help the relationship?

June 27, 2011

Regardless of vows and marriage:

One could say that cheating just before marriage is much worse than cheating many years later when the marriage becomes a routine. The latter could be excused as being bored to death. But to cheat before marriage is more egregious because one would expect the bride and groom to be deep in early romantic love.

Gotta disagree. There's never any good excuse for cheating. If you're so bored to death, get a divorce.

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