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So he gets a lap dance after you've already discussed it crosses your boundaries...

vsmini

By vsmini
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Negative Nancy Established Member

Negative Nancy

Posted
Posted

Great post, carhill! You nailed the underlying problem straight on the head.

 

Men always say "it was just a lapdance", well how would you feel if your woman was dancing and grinding with another guy at a club, flirting etc.? After all, it was "just a dance" as well. :rolleyes:

 

Men can dish it out, but they can't take it.

 

OP you should dump that loser, he ignored your feelings that night and during the lapdance moment that other woman clearly was more important than you.

 

He took the risk of disrespecting you and hurting your feelings over doing the same to his friends, so he clearly valued his friends' wishes more than yours.

 

It will only wear you down in the long run. Better quick pain than slow torture. You can do better than this scumbag.

Woggle Established Member

Woggle

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I think that carhill is probably more on my side. Let's be honest. You can reverse the genders in this thread and a good portion of the women though certainly not all would be singing a completely different tune.

carhill Established Member

carhill

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FTR, I can appreciate and accept both 'sides'. The OP is here gathering insight for her friend. Hopefully, the friend can find some resolution. I've read strong opinions on both 'sides' in this thread and see merit in all. Only the lady in question knows the truth of her relationship, her boundaries, her emotions and how she processes them.

 

My previous posting underscored a perhaps difficult concept of how men and women 'feel' differently. We can take in the same stimulus and have a completely different emotional response. Even within our own genders, perhaps to a lesser degree, there remain marked differences in those responses.

 

Is the friend's response reasonable and healthy? Time and experience will bring her those answers. She's doing the best she can.

EasyHeart Established Member

EasyHeart

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I disagree. We all have different ideas of what's acceptable behaviour.

 

Where would you draw the line on your girlfriend or wife getting a lapdance from a guy? Would it be ok if he rubbed his c*ck in her face? Still ok if she took it in her mouth?

 

Personally, I'm absolutely fine if my guy smiles his very charming smile at a woman he's just met and tells her she looks great in her outfit or that her hair is beautiful. He does that kind of thing sometimes and the women love it. I love it that he knows how to make women feel good while still behaving himself.

 

I certainly wouldn't be fine if those women took off all their clothes, sat on his lap and ground themselves up against him. No comparison to me.

 

And setting boundaries is not micromanaging.

 

Are you saying that when you're in a relationship, your girlfriend can do what she likes and so can you?

I think that the only behavior a woman can reasonably ask a man to stop when they are in a relationship is having sex with other women, just as he expects her to stop having sex with other men. Anything else is just unfair.
sweetjasmine Established Member

sweetjasmine

Posted
Posted
Ummm, yeah. That's why I said that this is at the same level of triviality. Lap dances have nothing to do with sex. I'd be more worried about a guy going to a bar than a strip club. And this ridiculous use of the term "boundaries" to mean "rules that I impose on my boyfriend" really annoys me and shows that people who use it in this way have no idea what the word actually means.

 

We're clearly talking about completely different things.

 

I'm not in an open/poly relationship: my partner and I both agreed to an exclusive, monogamous relationship, and in that type of relationship, defining what is and isn't appropriate sexual interaction with others outside the relationships is not at all trivial. Where we draw the lines is different from where other couples draw the line, but my point is that it's very important that both partners figure out what those boundaries are and whether they're both on the same page. Comparing that to agreements on clothes and shoes is beyond absurd.

 

It's pretty damn obvious from the descriptions posted. The real "mistake" this guy made was ever allowing his GF to dictate rules to him.

 

My partner and I have similar rules in our relationship: strip clubs are inappropriate, and lap dances are out of bounds. Flirting is also inappropriate. Neither of us dictates those rules to the other: we both agreed upon them mutually. He'd be just as upset with me for getting a lap dance from a male stripper as I would be at him for getting a lap dance from a female stripper. But let me guess, since I have one type of plumbing, that makes me a crazy micromanaging harpy.

LittleTiger Established Member

LittleTiger

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I think that the only behavior a woman can reasonably ask a man to stop when they are in a relationship is having sex with other women, just as he expects her to stop having sex with other men. Anything else is just unfair.

 

A lapdance is sex!

EasyHeart Established Member

EasyHeart

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A lapdance is sex!
That's ridiculous. If you give yourself the power to define "sex" however you want, the general rule loses all meaning. You can then say "Buying coffee from a cute barrista is sex!", "Having lunch with a woman is sex!", "Wearing argyle socks is sex!" or even "the authority to regulate commerce means we can force everyone in the country to buy health insurance!"
tigressA Established Member

tigressA

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I think those who are saying the OP's friend is controlling completely forgot about the fact that her boyfriend agreed with the boundary.

EasyHeart Established Member

EasyHeart

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I think those who are saying the OP's friend is controlling completely forgot about the fact that her boyfriend agreed with the boundary.
Yes, that's been discussed ad nauseum. We've moved on to more interesting things.
Enchanted Girl Established Member

Enchanted Girl

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Posted (edited)

So, Easyheart, what I've gathered from your opinion is that I can now start giving lap dances to any men I want even though I have a boyfriend. It's not sex. It's not that big of deal. It means nothing and its just a guy having a little fun. I want some fun, too! So if I do it for a variety of different guys and my boyfriend got mad over it, he'd have no right, since he can go out and get lap dances all he wants and I'm not allowed to be angry without being unreasonable. Even if I touch them a little and even if they cum from it, I'm not doing anything that wouldn't stripper do.

 

In fact, me doing it would be much better morally than this guy doing it. Because unlike with her boyfriend, my boyfriend and I have never actually discussed me not giving lap dances to other men.

 

Also, when men go to strip clubs, they often use up a bunch of money. I'd be using up no money. In fact, if I play my cards right, I could even MAKE some money. I could use that money to buy my boyfriend and I some nicer stuff and make our lives happier.

 

If he gets mad, then he's being completely unreasonable right?

 

No. I would never do this to my boyfriend because it would hurt him.

 

Would I enjoy it? Yes because it would make me feel sexy. It would just be some innocent fun. Would I necessarily sleep with these men? No. Would I have feelings for them? No, they are not the one I'm in love with. It's all the same really.

 

It's all right for you to enjoy your lap dances and some people to view that as the way they do relationships. Heck, its even all right for people to have open relationships if that want, but its also okay for people to be uncomfortable with these things. Its okay for people to say no to them and demand that they're not in a relationship where these things happen. If they are being completely unreasonable and no such man in the world exists, then why do you care? They're just going to wind up alone in the world because their standards are too high.

 

I know some guys would date strippers. In fact, I know some guys would be proud to date a stripper. But not all guys are comfortable with that. And if my boyfriend and I agreed that I should never strip and I went out and got a job as a stripper, it would be unacceptable. I'd be a liar and disrespecting him. I wouldn't be trustworthy any longer and our relationship would be over.

 

The women in this thread aren't being unreasonable, you are. You are so worried about giving up anything for a woman and that makes you a selfish person. (Don't pretend that it's just about lap dances, since you've complained about women being naggy and forcing their man to do anything in general.) Adding other people to your life means adding responsibility and sacrifice. Even if its not in this area, it will be in others. And if you're not ready for that, then you're not ready for sex. You need to leave other women alone because you're just going to hurt them and spend time with the number one person in your life, yourself. It's okay to value yourself above all else, but don't drag other people down with you.

Edited by Enchanted Girl
Sanman Established Member

Sanman

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That's ridiculous. If you give yourself the power to define "sex" however you want, the general rule loses all meaning. You can then say "Buying coffee from a cute barrista is sex!", "Having lunch with a woman is sex!", "Wearing argyle socks is sex!" or even "the authority to regulate commerce means we can force everyone in the country to buy health insurance!"

 

That was awesome!:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

 

Seriously though, the most boneheaded move this guy made was opening his mouth and admitting to the whole thing. It was a lap dance paid for by someone else at a bachelor party for someone else. This is simple guy code. If someone else wants strippers at their bachelor party you run with it. You don't have to have them at your bachelor party if you do not want to. Also, a lap dance is not a strictly defined activity. How naked the stripper was and the amount of contact can differ based on the stripper. Women are throwing out the worst case scenario. Either way, it not an offense worthy of dumping the guy and he sounds like an honest and trustworthy guy. Those who believe it is are welcome to hold people to those standards and see if they meet them.

LittleTiger Established Member

LittleTiger

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Posted
That's ridiculous. If you give yourself the power to define "sex" however you want, the general rule loses all meaning. You can then say "Buying coffee from a cute barrista is sex!", "Having lunch with a woman is sex!", "Wearing argyle socks is sex!" or even "the authority to regulate commerce means we can force everyone in the country to buy health insurance!"

 

No, it's not ridiculous.

 

As far as I'm concerned, anything involving sexual activity or even, in some cases, the suggestion of sexual activity, which includes verbal sex/phone sex/skype sex etc is 'sex'. I'm sure most adults have a similar definition of what sexual activity is.

 

Unless your name is Bill Clinton of course?

 

And you still haven't answered my question on where your personal boundaries lie regarding your own girlfriend or wife (if you have one) -would you draw the line at another guy's penis grinding in her face or is she allowed to suck on it too? Or perhaps neither counts as sex because there's no vaginal penetration taking place! :rolleyes:

Woggle Established Member

Woggle

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It is perfectly reasonable to ask a man not to get a lapdance. I just want to know if people think it is reasonable to ask a women not to flirst with other men. Not to defend either but in some ways a woman flirting can cause more damage.

 

For most men a lapdance is meaningless but we all know how some women all of a sudden lose attraction to their men because some cute guy smiles at them and they are smitten.

Enchanted Girl Established Member

Enchanted Girl

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Posted
It is perfectly reasonable to ask a man not to get a lapdance. I just want to know if people think it is reasonable to ask a women not to flirst with other men. Not to defend either but in some ways a woman flirting can cause more damage.

 

For most men a lapdance is meaningless but we all know how some women all of a sudden lose attraction to their men because some cute guy smiles at them and they are smitten.

 

I, personally, think it is reasonable. I do this without even being asked. I can't help myself. I'm too dedicated to whoever I'm with.

 

But I know how you feel. I try to ask as little as possible from boyfriends because people tend to think any request to have boundaries when it comes to them and other people is asking for too much. My ex thought it was too much for me to ask him not to sleep with other women.

 

Luckily, I'm dating a guy currently who told me that he doesn't spend one on one time with women anymore (unless its work and he has to) because he never wants me to jump to weird/jealous conclusions about his relationship with them.

 

And I went,"Wow. I never even asked you to do that. Are you real?" XD

LittleTiger Established Member

LittleTiger

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Posted
It is perfectly reasonable to ask a man not to get a lapdance. I just want to know if people think it is reasonable to ask a women not to flirst with other men. Not to defend either but in some ways a woman flirting can cause more damage.

 

For most men a lapdance is meaningless but we all know how some women all of a sudden lose attraction to their men because some cute guy smiles at them and they are smitten.

 

Refer back to Carhill's post Woggle. Men and women think differently about these things. You obviously believe that flirting is more dangerous to a relationship than stripping - I believe the opposite. But then, I would never get into a relationship with a man who goes to strip clubs. I do however like men who flirt because it means they have confidence with women - and to clarify, I do NOT mean player type men, I mean men who genuinely LIKE women.

 

It is perfectly reasonable for a couple to discuss and agree on boundaries that they are both happy with. Whether that means he can't go to strip clubs and she's not allowed to flirt or vice versa.

 

What is not reasonable or acceptable, is for either person to agree on a boundary and then step over it.

EasyHeart Established Member

EasyHeart

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No, it's not ridiculous.

 

As far as I'm concerned, anything involving sexual activity or even, in some cases, the suggestion of sexual activity, which includes verbal sex/phone sex/skype sex etc is 'sex'. I'm sure most adults have a similar definition of what sexual activity is.

 

Unless your name is Bill Clinton of course?

 

And you still haven't answered my question on where your personal boundaries lie regarding your own girlfriend or wife (if you have one) -would you draw the line at another guy's penis grinding in her face or is she allowed to suck on it too? Or perhaps neither counts as sex because there's no vaginal penetration taking place! :rolleyes:

So flirting with someone or wearing revealing clothing would also be sex by your definition.

 

I did state where my (mutual) rule: we can't have sex with other people. It's really never been an issue in any LTRs and I can't imagine it ever will be. I've never dated anyone who had another man rub his penis on her face or put his penis in her mouth (as far as I know!), but I certainly would have an issue with it. Of course, nothing remotely like that happened here. Obviously, context would be important. If she were with a bunch of friends in a strip club and some guy wagged it in her face, that would not be a big deal (though I doubt I'd date a woman who goes to strip clubs). If she was blowing a co-worker in the front seat of his Camry, that would be a very big problem.

 

I think a lot of this paranoia about lap dances and strip clubs among some of the women here is simply because you don't know what they are.

LittleTiger Established Member

LittleTiger

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So flirting with someone or wearing revealing clothing would also be sex by your definition.

 

No, I wear skin tight clothing at the gym and a bathing suit when I swim, which could both be considered 'revealing' - I am not engaging in any sexual activity when I do that. Likewise if a woman goes out in a short skirt and low cut top she is not engaging in sexual activity with another person unless she invites a guy to touch her in some way - and wearing provocative clothing in itself, is definitely NOT asking a guy to touch her.

 

With 'flirting' it depends on your definition. If 'flirting' includes sexual suggestion, touching with intent to provoke sexual interest etc then yes, that's sexual activity. But 'flirting' to me is also just having a laugh with someone and enjoying the attention of another person (usually of the opposite sex but not necessarily) regardless of whether there is any sexual interest - no 'sex' involved in that case. 'Flirting' as I see it, is actually a dying art - which is rather a shame.

 

I did state where my (mutual) rule: we can't have sex with other people. It's really never been an issue in any LTRs and I can't imagine it ever will be. I've never dated anyone who had another man rub his penis on her face or put his penis in her mouth (as far as I know!), but I certainly would have an issue with it.

 

Well then, it seems we're on roughly the same page with this. Most women don't like the idea of a naked, or even half naked, woman rubbing herself in their guy's face. That's no different from a guy rubbing his penis in a woman's face.

 

I think a lot of this paranoia about lap dances and strip clubs among some of the women here is simply because you don't know what they are.

 

I don't think it's paranoia at all. I think what most women on this thread are upset about is not that the guy in question went to a strip club or had a lap dance, but that he promised his partner he wouldn't, and then did it anyway. Surely you can see that's a bad thing for anyone in a relationship to do. The fact that is was a lapdance is actually irrelevant. If you promise not to do something because your partner has made it clear that it will hurt them, you should keep your promise.

OliveOyl Established Member

OliveOyl

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This is not divided neatly across gender lines. I am a woman, who takes relationships seriously, and I happen to agree that the OP and her friend have blown the situation way out of proportion.

 

Oops I said I was done with this thread. Back to lurking.

lamaman3 Established Member

lamaman3

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Its obvious the OP is the gf. Personally I would find that behavior to be a deal breaker - YOUR behavior that is. I could never be with a woman who would devote so much mental energy on something so meaningless and dumb. I suggest that you work on your self esteem OP. Does your bf have to get your permission to masturbate or make eye contact with other women as well?

Queen Zenobia Established Member

Queen Zenobia

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This is not divided neatly across gender lines. I am a woman, who takes relationships seriously, and I happen to agree that the OP and her friend have blown the situation way out of proportion.

 

Oops I said I was done with this thread. Back to lurking.

 

I'm a woman, and I agree with you. I don't believe in slippery slopes, gateway transgressions, the domino theory, zero tolerance or any other arbitrary principle being defended in this thread. The only thing at issue here is whether the the OP's friend is truly happy in the relationship and this incident presents just a bump in the road. If she is happy then the two of them can have a frank discussion about how this made her feel, etc. If not, then maybe they need to re-evaluate their relationship. I just can't fathom a "one strike and you're out" policy existing within the confines of an otherwise healthy relationship.

 

I told myself I was done with this thread too, but I couldn't help myself.

LittleTiger Established Member

LittleTiger

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Posted
Its obvious the OP is the gf. Personally I would find that behavior to be a deal breaker - YOUR behavior that is. I could never be with a woman who would devote so much mental energy on something so meaningless and dumb. I suggest that you work on your self esteem OP. Does your bf have to get your permission to masturbate or make eye contact with other women as well?

 

It isn't obvious at all, and if you think making a promise to your partner and then breaking it is meaningless, you have some serious personal development to do yourself.

 

So many people seem to be ignoring the main point of this thread. It is not about the lapdance, it's about making a promise not to do something (anything!) that you know will hurt your partner and then doing it anyway.

EasyHeart Established Member

EasyHeart

Posted
Posted
It isn't obvious at all, and if you think making a promise to your partner and then breaking it is meaningless, you have some serious personal development to do yourself.

 

So many people seem to be ignoring the main point of this thread. It is not about the lapdance, it's about making a promise not to do something (anything!) that you know will hurt your partner and then doing it anyway.

I've said this at least three times, but I'll say it again: if you consider the issue to be simply breach of contract, then there's no point in asking for advice or creating a thread. If I said, "Someone promised to pay me $20 to mow their lawn. I mowed their lawn and now they refuse to pay me. Did they do anything wrong?" there's not much to talk about.

 

The real issue in this thread is the ridiculous reasons many women use as "dealbreakers" in their relationships. They literally force men to walk on eggshells and look for any excuse to create stress and drama. Going to a stripclub is about as edgy as going to Applebee's. If you have even a shred of self-respect and your relationship has any depth to it at all, something as trivial as lapdance at a bachelor party would be something you laugh about, not freak out about and threaten to break up over.

 

Go back an read my first post in this thread. My suggestion was that women who have trouble with relationships might want to reconsider having such long lists of non-negotiable rules (eg, "You may never have a lapdance at your cousin's bachelor party!") and they just might have better luck with men.

TokyoG33kyGal Established Member

TokyoG33kyGal

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i am personally 50/50 on this only because i know my fiance will say no to it if ever he's faced with the same situation. i won't be bothered by the lap dance per se but the thought of him being easily swayed because of peer pressure.

 

i might not break up with the guy if i were in her shoes, but i would express my future concerns. i would also clarify that next time it happens, i am out.

sweetjasmine Established Member

sweetjasmine

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Going to a stripclub is about as edgy as going to Applebee's.

 

I'm sure most men wouldn't bat an eye about taking their grandma to a strip club to have their sister give a lapdance, since it's about as edgy as getting mozzarella sticks at Applebee's.

 

If you have even a shred of self-respect and your relationship has any depth to it at all, something as trivial as lapdance at a bachelor party would be something you laugh about, not freak out about and threaten to break up over.

 

If you have even a shred of self-respect, you won't force yourself to accept things that hurt you or make you uncomfortable just because you're terrified of being dumped or lonely.

tigressA Established Member

tigressA

Posted
Posted
I'm sure most men wouldn't bat an eye about taking their grandma to a strip club to have their sister give a lapdance, since it's about as edgy as getting mozzarella sticks at Applebee's.

 

 

 

If you have even a shred of self-respect, you won't force yourself to accept things that hurt you or make you uncomfortable just because you're terrified of being dumped or lonely.

 

*slow clap*

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