So he gets a lap dance after you've already discussed it crosses your boundaries...

June 17, 2011

It's funny how adding some of these words can make it seem like it's okay. I don't think she NEEDS to leave him, however if this 'dude' appeared to have the same way of talking things right that you have, I would probably pray she would leave him.

If my friend would by me a dance from a male stripper I would happily say no. What an idiot the friend is... But the guy could have just given the lapdance gift back to him;)

As for the tradition goes...amish have traditions, native americans have traditions, chinese people have traditions, europeans have traditions, hack even the inca's had traditions. Some of them are nice some of them aren't, but saying something is tradition is NEVER a reason for why something is okay;)

I'll bet you that 99% of women don't like it and that over 70% of women don't allow it. The women that do allow it, but don't like it, why on earth would you want to hurt them?

What is innocent to you? It's innocent in a way that it doesn't kill you and it doesn't give you a disease. Maybe you would be okay with it if a male stripper would be rubbing his 'manhood' against your girl while she's gladly enjoying it, if that's the case: I hope you'll find a girl that belongs to the 1% that is okay with you recieving lapdances;) Other wise: be a man, don't be a hypocrite, learn to love and you'll be one of the happiest people alive;)

it's innocent because of a combination of the following reasons. A. he didn't even buy this lapdance for himself so it was not his intent, therefore how can you conclude he even enjoyed it or wants it?? B. it's a bachelor party where this stuff is expected C. it's a lapdance!! he's not making out with anyone, he's not even touching his hands on anyone, it's a fantasy, not reality, the girl is getting PAID to do this, she doesn't want him or anything. D. i honestly do NOT see how this is different from porn (one poster said they were okay with porn, but not this??). UNLESS of course he makes sexual advances on the stripper, which is completely different obviously. but no...it's the same thing. a fantasy.

that 99% thing is just your own opinion. i personally wouldn't care if a woman i love and trust went to a bacholette party that had a male stripper shove his junk in her face. b/c i know she loves me, i trust her, and she's in an environment where that's what generally happens.

if u trust your spouse/gf/bf..which obv the OP's friend does not, this is very innocent indeed. but since the OPs friend has insecurity/trust issues with her man, then yes, by all means leave him, he'd be better off.

June 17, 2011

nvm........

June 17, 2011

Thing is, maybe he would live and learn too. Isn't it worth considering forgiveness at least once to see if he would not repeat his mistakes?

I do think if a boundary is repeatedly crossed (more than once) then yes, that's serious and time to let go.

But a one-time "offense"? Zero-tolerance - blow off a whole good solid year-long relationship? Isn't it assuming the worst, that the one lap dance (at a bachelor party with significant peer pressure in effect) is in effect "gateway" cheating and will slide into more of the same or worse behaviors?

Has this guy had any other indications he would continue engaging in similar behavior?

He has had lapdances before in his life. That is already a big no-no. On top of that, he said the lapdances made him feel like a low life but he nevertheless had several of them, and has one again after he agreed with his girlfriend that he would no longer have them.

The problem is not that the lap dance is a gateway to cheating. The problem is with the lap dance itself and the fact that he broke his promise.

Personally I don't like guys who have had lap dances in their life.

June 17, 2011

I am amazed to see this thread has 9 pages when:

Boundry was established and agreed upon.

Boundry was then crossed.

Why is this even a question?

I agree. The guy is no good so not too many words should be wasted on him.

June 17, 2011

He has had lapdances before in his life. That is already a big no-no. On top of that, he said the lapdances made him feel like a low life but he nevertheless had several of them, and has one again after he agreed with his girlfriend that he would no longer have them.

The problem is not that the lap dance is a gateway to cheating. The problem is with the lap dance itself and the fact that he broke his promise.

Personally I don't like guys who have had lap dances in their life.

It's unclear whether he's had them before or not. In the first post the OP says:

He's never had one before but after 1 year of being together he goes off to his cousin's bachelor party ...

But later on it's said:

Lap dances came up. He told her they make him feel dirty and like a low-life after he'd had them in the past.

I dunno. I'm done with this thread. I'm think I'm gonna try to get a lapdance from my BF tonight.

June 17, 2011

it's innocent because of a combination of the following reasons. A. he didn't even buy this lapdance for himself so it was not his intent, therefore how can you conclude he even enjoyed it or wants it?? B. it's a bachelor party where this stuff is expected C. it's a lapdance!! he's not making out with anyone, he's not even touching his hands on anyone, it's a fantasy, not reality, the girl is getting PAID to do this, she doesn't want him or anything. D. i honestly do NOT see how this is different from porn (one poster said they were okay with porn, but not this??). UNLESS of course he makes sexual advances on the stripper, which is completely different obviously. but no...it's the same thing. a fantasy.

that 99% thing is just your own opinion. i personally wouldn't care if a woman i love and trust went to a bacholette party that had a male stripper shove his junk in her face. b/c i know she loves me, i trust her, and she's in an environment where that's what generally happens.

if u trust your spouse/gf/bf..which obv the OP's friend does not, this is very innocent indeed. but since the OPs friend has insecurity/trust issues with her man, then yes, by all means leave him, he'd be better off.

A. But he did exept it;) I'm not saying he MUST have enjoyed it, but if he didn't, she will never know this:(, B. Not at every bachelor party, again: in Europe this is not the standard, nor is it is Asia and I can't imagine everone in the USA does this and even if they do, The guy had an agreement with his GF;), C. I honestly do not know how to respond to this, since it's so stupid... Fine so then maybe you don't mind this, but there's a lot of physical contact and if he's enjoying it and he had an agreement it is a way of cheating. D. No this is real, not a fantasy. The fact that he can't touch her, doesn't mean she doesn't touch him. I don't know what their agreement is on porn, but thats a different issue, doesnt have anything to do with this.

June 17, 2011

That's really great and all but in the context of their relationship and what was agreed upon in their lives - it was inappropriate. Why are you not getting that not everyone shares the same values and or beliefs about things? Why can't you get it? Even after he did it he says he made a mistake and feels awful.

If you consider to the issue to be a simple breach of contract and the remedy is breaking up, then why ask for advice? Why start a thread about such a simple issue? This is nothing more than your friend making a power-play and seeking validation and support for it.

Are you now going to tell him to change his belief because it's expected at parties? We're dealing with PERSONAL beliefs. That means personal. Srsly - there's no way you cannot understand that at this point.

"well he did it anyway." you'll say so obviously it's ok because of context and tradition and everything else.
Well he feels sorry for it.

That's absurd. Lap dances or bachelor parties do not involve any "personal beliefs". I "personally believe" that it's a violation of basic human dignity to own more than a few pairs of shoes. Should I issue quotas on the number of shoes my GF can buy and break up with her if she exceeds her quota? This issue is at the same level of triviality.

The guy I'm with says they're inappropriate - that his mother raised him right and to respect women (his words - not mine). If context is 100% infallible then I guess he is wrong. That he should change his personal beliefs because it's considered ok in that kind of context.

Of course he does!!! We can only imagine what would happen to him if he disagreed with you!!!

The issue here isn't the lapdance, it's the shrill over-reaction that your friend had to it.

How can women not see that setting up their relationships as a military police state simply trains their husbands/boyfriends to lie to them?

June 17, 2011

A. he didn't even buy this lapdance for himself so it was not his intent, therefore how can you conclude he even enjoyed it or wants it??

If he didn't even want it or enjoy it, why would he let it happen? Why would he agree to do something that he doesn't even want if he knows it's crossing a boundary he and his partner agreed to?

If my friends pay some dude to make out with me, and I agree to let it happen even though I don't want the dude near me, can I later claim complete innocence because I didn't have the spine to speak up?

B. it's a bachelor party where this stuff is expected

Why is it expected? In my circle, I can't think of any bachelor parties that included a strip club. Only one of them had it sort of planned, but the guys never made it there because a fight broke out at the first bar they hit, and they stayed at the second bar.

C. it's a lapdance!! he's not making out with anyone, he's not even touching his hands on anyone, it's a fantasy, not reality, the girl is getting PAID to do this, she doesn't want him or anything.

It's a live human being in front of him and it's a sexual interaction with that person. That there's no touching doesn't mean that it's appropriate. If the guy's girlfriend watched a man get himself off but didn't touch him, I bet he would have a problem with it, even if it was just a "fantasy" where they didn't touch or make out.

That someone gets paid for it doesn't matter either. If I dangled my bare breasts 2 inches from another man's face on a dare and if he gave me 20 bucks for it, my SO would find it highly inappropriate and would be very hurt by it. It's the act itself that's the problem. If my partner had sex with a prostitute, the fact that he paid for it and the fact that she "doesn't want him or anything" would be utterly irrelevant in light of the fact that he violated our agreement to not have sexual interactions with other people outside the relationship.

D. i honestly do NOT see how this is different from porn (one poster said they were okay with porn, but not this??).

Porn is a bunch of images on a screen. A lap dance is a live human being with their naked body right up on yours, with either touching or no touching depending on the type. Do you really not see a difference between interacting with AN ACTUAL PERSON versus watching a film or looking at pictures?

she's in an environment where that's what generally happens.

The point is: why would someone put themselves in an environment where "that's what generally happens" if they ALREADY AGREED with their partner that it was out of bounds?

Lap dances or bachelor parties do not involve any "personal beliefs".

Sure they do - the personal beliefs of what the acceptable boundaries of monogamy are. People draw the line in different places.

I "personally believe" that it's a violation of basic human dignity to own more than a few pairs of shoes. Should I issue quotas on the number of shoes my GF can buy and break up with her if she exceeds her quota? This issue is at the same level of triviality.

You keep comparing this issue to clothes and shoes. Do you think that the definition of what is and isn't appropriate sexual interaction or contact with another person is a trivial matter in a relationship? That it's as trivial as how many pairs of shoes someone has or what color shirt they wear?

How can women not see that setting up their relationships as a military police state simply trains their husbands/boyfriends to lie to them?

Why are you assuming that they set up their relationships as a "military police state"?

June 17, 2011

You keep comparing this issue to clothes and shoes. Do you think that the definition of what is and isn't appropriate sexual interaction or contact with another person is a trivial matter in a relationship? That it's as trivial as how many pairs of shoes someone has or what color shirt they wear?

Ummm, yeah. That's why I said that this is at the same level of triviality. Lap dances have nothing to do with sex. I'd be more worried about a guy going to a bar than a strip club. And this ridiculous use of the term "boundaries" to mean "rules that I impose on my boyfriend" really annoys me and shows that people who use it in this way have no idea what the word actually means.

Why are you assuming that they set up their relationships as a "military police state"?

It's pretty damn obvious from the descriptions posted. The real "mistake" this guy made was ever allowing his GF to dictate rules to him.

June 17, 2011

honestly i hope she DOES leave him for this, b/c the dude obv deserves better. the thought of a chick leaving a dude just b/c he partook in a male tradition that most normal females would have no issue with, is ludacrist! go find a better girl! an innocent lapdance that his friend bought him and thats grounds for dumping him? wow.

It was a bachelor party....come on... who cares...

So what if he got a quick thrill from another lady....he's bound for one pussy the rest of his life....give em a break.

It was a god damn bachelor party, he got a lap dance, big f'cking deal!

Every one of these posts completely miss the point. The rightness/wrongness/severity of a lapdance is irrelevant.

What matters is when a couple discusses something and one or the other makes it clear that "I am not comfortable with you being involved in activity X " and the other disregards their wishes and does it anyway, *that* is the crux of this. The act itself is irrelevant so it is pointless to discuss how harmless a lapdance is or try to rationalize that the GF is over reacting.

Now I am not saying that she should leave him just because of this, (we don't really know anything about this couple) but it is a major red flag because it shows a lack of respect.

June 17, 2011

A. But he did exept it;) I'm not saying he MUST have enjoyed it, but if he didn't, she will never know this:(, B. Not at every bachelor party, again: in Europe this is not the standard, nor is it is Asia and I can't imagine everone in the USA does this and even if they do, The guy had an agreement with his GF;), C. I honestly do not know how to respond to this, since it's so stupid... Fine so then maybe you don't mind this, but there's a lot of physical contact and if he's enjoying it and he had an agreement it is a way of cheating. D. No this is real, not a fantasy. The fact that he can't touch her, doesn't mean she doesn't touch him. I don't know what their agreement is on porn, but thats a different issue, doesnt have anything to do with this.

there's still no trust there, i'm sorry. and you're thing about the tradition not being as common everywhere is irrelevant if the OPs friend's place is one of those places where it is. she can touch him but WHO CARES. is there ANY threat of them hooking up or anything?? none, absolutely none.

listen lets just agree to disagree. if this woman is willing to dump a perfectly good man b/c he had a lap dance at a bachelor party, i still contend that it's to his benefit and she has some severe insecurity/trust issues. let him go. that's INSANE!

June 17, 2011

Every one of these posts completely miss the point. The rightness/wrongness/severity of a lapdance is irrelevant.

What matters is when a couple discusses something and one or the other makes it clear that "I am not comfortable with you being involved in activity X " and the other disregards their wishes and does it anyway, *that* is the crux of this. The act itself is irrelevant so it is pointless to discuss how harmless a lapdance is or try to rationalize that the GF is over reacting.

Now I am not saying that she should leave him just because of this, (we don't really know anything about this couple) but it is a major red flag because it shows a lack of respect.

i would normally agree with you IF it wasn't bought for him by a friend. therefore yes, the innocence of a lapdance is fairly important information here. if his friend bought him a hooker, or a girl to makeout with, then that's a different story. the fact that his friend bought him an innocent little lapdance, means a ton here.

we don't even know the situation; sometimes at bachelor parties it's all in one big room, and the stripper will do the lapdances right then and there. there might not have even been time to say no unless he shoved her off of him forcefully. he might have been caught off guard and just played along. maybe he didn't want a teasing/hazing from his buddies so thought it was so innocent that he'd just go with it.

but no imo you cannot discount the innocence of a lapdance here, b/c it's fairly pertinent information given it was something bought for him and he wasn't out seeking a lapdance himself.

June 17, 2011

I would never agree to it. I'd tel her things like this will happen and it is completely harmless and it doesn't take away what we have. It's just stupid fun. I wouldn't want to feel restricted for something in a relationship like the OP is having a cow over.

A relationship and partner where you tell them "I got a freakin Lap dance" and you both laugh silly about it....that is where the relationship has to be.

Different strokes for different folks. You don't want exclusive relationships - fine, but it doesn't mean everyone is like you.

June 17, 2011

Different strokes for different folks. You don't want exclusive relationships - fine, but it doesn't mean everyone is like you.

lmao. so getting a lap dance implies non exclusivity now?

i guess massages are also cheating too. there's a man rubbing his hands on my girlfriends naked body. CHEATER!

*sigh*

June 17, 2011

I notice the difference in replies in this thread compared to the one in this link. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t282221/ This is what I mean when I talk about the double standard. I don't think either one is right but why is a man supposed to accept his wife repeatedly flirting with other men but a one time lapdance at a bachelor party is a huge crime?

June 17, 2011

I would never agree to it. I'd tel her things like this will happen and it is completely harmless and it doesn't take away what we have. It's just stupid fun. I wouldn't want to feel restricted for something in a relationship like the OP is having a cow over.
.

And that is your prerogative. If your partner tells you "I am uncomfortable with X" and you feel it's not a big deal and do it anyway, than don't be surprised when you find yourself alone.

If you feel restricted than it's also your prerogative to find somebody less restrictive. But don't ignore the fact that this is all about respect and expect to have it both ways.

June 17, 2011

I notice the difference in replies in this thread compared to the one in this link. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t282221/ This is what I mean when I talk about the double standard. I don't think either one is right but why is a man supposed to accept his wife repeatedly flirting with other men but a one time lapdance at a bachelor party is a huge crime?

Woggle, there is no comparison with the thread you have just highlighted. As far as we are aware, the woman in the other thread was dressed sexily and 'flirting' (whatever the OPs definition of that is). She didn't touch a guy, nobody was naked, and for all we know, her behaviour was entirely acceptable to her husband - presumably he knew she had gone out dressed the way she did - she probably does it all the time.

This thread is about boundaries.

My personal boundary would be if my guy had any sexual contact with another woman or spoke to her in a way suggesting he was available for sex. Pretty much anything else is fine. (Getting a lapdance is sexual contact). These are boundaries that my partner is very well aware of and if they're ever crossed, he's history.

The OPs friend should dump her boyfriend for two reasons:

1) He crossed the boundary he had previously agreed to.

2) He's a spineless wimp who's scared of being laughed at by his friends - that's not my definition of a man.

And Woggle, before you ask me if this works both ways - for me it does yes. I have never ever crossed a boundary that my partner has made clear is a dealbreaker - and, unless I decide I no longer care about the relationship - I never will.

June 17, 2011

Woggle, there is no comparison with the thread you have just highlighted. As far as we are aware, the woman in the other thread was dressed sexily and 'flirting' (whatever the OPs definition of that is). She didn't touch a guy, nobody was naked, and for all we know, her behaviour was entirely acceptable to her husband - presumably he knew she had gone out dressed the way she did - she probably does it all the time.

This thread is about boundaries.

My personal boundary would be if my guy had any sexual contact with another woman or spoke to her in a way suggesting he was available for sex. Pretty much anything else is fine. (Getting a lapdance is sexual contact). These are boundaries that my partner is very well aware of and if they're ever crossed, he's history.

The OPs friend should dump her boyfriend for two reasons:
1) He crossed the boundary he had previously agreed to.
2) He's a spineless wimp who's scared of being laughed at by his friends - that's not my definition of a man.

And Woggle, before you ask me if this works both ways - for me it does yes. I have never ever crossed a boundary that my partner has made clear is a dealbreaker - and, unless I decide I no longer care about the relationship - I never will.

Flirting with another person is MUCH more disrespectful than a silly lapdance.

I do agree that this guy is a spineless wimp -- not for being "scared" of his friends, but for being scared of his girlfriend. Insecure women who need to micromanage the lives of their boyfriends deserve to be alone.

June 17, 2011

Insecure women who need to micromanage the lives of their boyfriends deserve to be alone.

While I agree with this statement on principle, it has absolutely nothing at all to do with this thread. Making somebody aware of your boundaries, then having those boundaries crossed is in no way, shape or form micromanaging.

June 17, 2011

Flirting with another person is MUCH more disrespectful than a silly lapdance.

I do agree that this guy is a spineless wimp -- not for being "scared" of his friends, but for being scared of his girlfriend. Insecure women who need to micromanage the lives of their boyfriends deserve to be alone.

I disagree. We all have different ideas of what's acceptable behaviour.

Where would you draw the line on your girlfriend or wife getting a lapdance from a guy? Would it be ok if he rubbed his c*ck in her face? Still ok if she took it in her mouth?

Personally, I'm absolutely fine if my guy smiles his very charming smile at a woman he's just met and tells her she looks great in her outfit or that her hair is beautiful. He does that kind of thing sometimes and the women love it. I love it that he knows how to make women feel good while still behaving himself.

I certainly wouldn't be fine if those women took off all their clothes, sat on his lap and ground themselves up against him. No comparison to me.

And setting boundaries is not micromanaging.

Are you saying that when you're in a relationship, your girlfriend can do what she likes and so can you?

June 17, 2011

I don't think that a lapdance is a good thing but I find it funny how in this thread a man is supposed to take a woman's wishes into account and in another it is taken even further where a man is supposed to not go to a party his friend is having because some people there will be doing some naughty things. You also have another thread where a guy can't even go out with his friends to a bar to watch the game past ten pm.

Compare all this with the thread where a woman can dress provocatively and flirt with anybody she please and who gives a damn what a man thinks because he is just trying to control her. Compare the two and you understand why some men defend their right to see a stripper with so much passion. I think it is the wrong issue to take a stand on but men are tired of some women trying to cut our balls off while telling us we are controlling if we make any demands on them.

June 17, 2011

I think it is the wrong issue to take a stand on but men are tired of some women trying to cut our balls off while telling us we are controlling if we make any demands on them.

What I do Woggle, is concentrate on what my man says and does - because he's the only one whose opinion and values really matter to me.

I'm sure you would be a lot happier if you did the same - as you obviously have a very good woman at home.

What I read and write on here is mostly just for entertainment - and because I like to spout words of wisdom on the odd occasion.

June 17, 2011

Do you read romance novels? Do you watch Twilight?

Erm, no???

Never heard of Twilight and I'm not really into romantic novels - prefer a bit of sci-fi fantasy.

June 17, 2011

What I do Woggle, is concentrate on what my man says and does - because he's the only one whose opinion and values really matter to me.

I'm sure you would be a lot happier if you did the same - as you obviously have a very good woman at home.

What I read and write on here is mostly just for entertainment - and because I like to spout words of wisdom on the odd occasion.

I do and I am not talking about women but there are some who need to realize respect is a two way street.

June 17, 2011

Wogs, you underscored the very different perspectives and boundaries men and women have. I can envision how a woman can feel disrespected and betrayed by a man getting a lapdance equally to how a man can feel the same when his woman is flirting with and/or attracting sexual attention from other men. Each gender, and each individual within each gender has differing 'buttons' which elicit emotional response and subsequent intellectual processing of those emotions. All are valid for that person even if not in agreement with other people. If they are globally in disagreement, then that person likely will have few healthy relationships.

For example, a man might say 'It was just a lapdance; it made me feel good' ; a woman might say 'It was just innocent flirtation. It made me feel good'. Each person could be steadfast in their commitment to their partner *in their own mind* but it's how those actions are perceived by their partner, as well as how such actions pertain to agreements made between the partners, that matters. If the boundary is no lapdances, then that's the boundary. If it's no flirting with other men, then that's the boundary. Each couple who has voluntarily agreed to a relationship sets the parameters. If their parameters agree, then such is a benefit to the relationship. If not, a detriment. If the detriment is irreconcilable, then the relationship should end.

Apparently, the OP's friend is deciding whether or not the detriment is irreconcilable.

Sign In

So he gets a lap dance after you've already discussed it crosses your boundaries...

Recommended Posts

Jono85

Jono85

PinkInTheLimo

PinkInTheLimo

OliveOyl

zlatnapolja

EasyHeart

sweetjasmine

EasyHeart

OriginalPenguin

Jono85

Jono85

rafallus

Jono85

Woggle

OriginalPenguin

LittleTiger

EasyHeart

OriginalPenguin

LittleTiger

Woggle

LittleTiger

LittleTiger

Woggle

carhill

What's New

My Activity Streams

More...