So he gets a lap dance after you've already discussed it crosses your boundaries...

[vsmini]

I don't think this guy should have done it but I find it funny how a man is supposed to submit to any demand a woman makes yet when a man wishes to define any boundaries or make any requests of a woman he is controlling her or he is trying to put her back in the kitchen or anything. I wonder if the women who post in this thread would have the same views if the genders were reversed. I hope they would. I think he should have respected her wishes but I am sick of the double standards.

 

I have the same views if the genders were reversed. As stated many times - both the guy and girl in this relationship have stated their boundaries. No double standards here. And he is a big boy - if her boundaries (or demands as you call them) were a problem with him he should have stated it in the first place. Not agreed with her.

This was not just any demand. And nowhere did I state or believe that he was controlling/manipulating her with his boundaries and vice versa.

[Woggle]

I have the same views if the genders were reversed. As stated many times - both the guy and girl in this relationship have stated their boundaries. No double standards here. And he is a big boy - if her boundaries (or demands as you call them) were a problem with him he should have stated it in the first place. Not agreed with her.

This was not just any demand. And nowhere did I state or believe that he was controlling/manipulating her with his boundaries and vice versa.

 

You never said it but I bet that if it was a man talking about his fiance many women would be telling him to get over it or lighten up or stop trying to control her sexuality.

[Enchanted Girl]

I don't think this guy should have done it but I find it funny how a man is supposed to submit to any demand a woman makes yet when a man wishes to define any boundaries or make any requests of a woman he is controlling her or he is trying to put her back in the kitchen or anything. I wonder if the women who post in this thread would have the same views if the genders were reversed. I hope they would. I think he should have respected her wishes but I am sick of the double standards.

 

Boundaries should be discussed as a couple and also rated from super important to not so important (and the not so important ones should be compromised on if necessary.)

 

But once they are set, they shouldn't be broken.

 

And if there are ones that can't be compromised on that conflict, then the relationship won't work.

 

And both sides should be allowed to have boundaries.

[vsmini]

You never said it but I bet that if it was a man talking about his fiance many women would be telling him to get over it or lighten up or stop trying to control her sexuality.

 

This is very frustrating that people (and I'm not saying you in particular) use this line of reasoning for their argument:

 

Well I BET if X did Y and Y did X it would be a totally different story.

 

 

Well X did not do Y so it has nothing to do with this story.

 

Double standards or man vs. women or grand generalizations is not the point of this post at all. It doesn't even come into play and I see a lot of people using this exact line of thinking in their arguments and they don't even realize how much it does not apply.

 

It's not the fact that people disagree that lap dances are harmless that bugs the hell out of me - it's the fact that they use grand generalizations about how "all women" do this or that. That's not helping - all it's helping is the fact that you're venting your issues with a particular gender in general.

 

It happens in almost every thread and it's just obnoxious. Next thing you know - you're defending a gender and not looking at the situation at hand.

[EasyHeart]

She called it as a deal-breaker. This was clear and he understood 4 months ago as much as he understood it before he went ahead and did it. She found out Monday night that it happened Saturday night. Right now she's in the process of really making sure she wants to break it off.

Then what's the point of your friend asking you for advice? Or of you starting this thread.

 

You aren't looking for advice, you're looking for validation.

[carhill]

The friend evidently lacks the resolve to enforce the consequences of the boundary breach....

 

'That's a deal-breaker. Good-bye.'

 

She apparently doesn't have such clarity. Hence the thread.

[vsmini]

Then what's the point of your friend asking you for advice? Or of you starting this thread.

 

You aren't looking for advice, you're looking for validation.

 

I've got nothing on the table I'm looking to have validated. Wanted opinions based on what was presented.

[Woggle]

I am sorry for bringing gender into it but you can't avoid it with issues like this because too often some but certainly not all women ask for respect and consideration that they refuse to give us.

 

I said that I think he was wrong but I hope that she would live up to her own standards.

[Citizen Erased]

I don't think this guy should have done it but I find it funny how a man is supposed to submit to any demand a woman makes yet when a man wishes to define any boundaries or make any requests of a woman he is controlling her or he is trying to put her back in the kitchen or anything. I wonder if the women who post in this thread would have the same views if the genders were reversed. I hope they would. I think he should have respected her wishes but I am sick of the double standards.

 

Yes Woggle, if the genders were reversed, I would still find it to be wrong. But then I have no need to rub my pussy on someone other than my fiancé, no matter the environment.

[rafallus]

I am sorry for bringing gender into it but you can't avoid it with issues like this because too often some but certainly not all women ask for respect and consideration that they refuse to give us.

 

I said that I think he was wrong but I hope that she would live up to her own standards.

 

IMO because males in questions get whipped by them. So it doesn't mean it's right in any form, it means they let their partners get away with it.

[sweetjasmine]

I don't think this guy should have done it but I find it funny how a man is supposed to submit to any demand a woman makes yet when a man wishes to define any boundaries or make any requests of a woman he is controlling her or he is trying to put her back in the kitchen or anything. I wonder if the women who post in this thread would have the same views if the genders were reversed. I hope they would. I think he should have respected her wishes but I am sick of the double standards.

 

Sigh. What double standards? Several people in this thread clarified that they feel the same way regardless of gender.

 

To repeat myself: if invited to a strip club bachelorette party, I would politely decline out of respect for my partner. If my brother or a male friend came to me saying he's upset because his girlfriend/fiancee gave a lap dance or got a lap dance from a stripper, I'd react the same way.

 

It doesn't matter what type of plumbing the person in question has. If the person agreed that strip clubs and/or lap dances are off limits, they're in the wrong if they go ahead and do it anyway unless someone was pointing a loaded gun to their head at the time.

 

You're chasing boogeymen again, Woggle.

[daphne]

I sometimes wonder why some men feel so passionate about retaining their right to have naked women on their lap and not have to feel bad about it, that they try to make women in general feel they should be ashamed about having a reaction to that. The irony is rather rich, when they sit loudly proclaiming that they will shame and judge anyone who doesn't change their behavior and feelings because they're so righteously angry about other people wanting their behavior and feelings to change. Dude, all you have to say is that it's mega-important to YOU, and then go looking for a woman who's on the same page as you. You don't have to try to make all women everywhere feel like they're being horribly emasculating harridans for not liking strip clubs, that's really kind of silly. The whole world doesn't react within the exact emotional parameters you have set for yourself.

 

I wish you would post more often. I enjoy your logical and analytical reasoning. You see things that, I think, many people don't see clearly.

 

This is a pretty salient point. I think that the excuse offered is that "Men are men," or that "Men are more animalistic." Ok. As a general rule this is very true. I get that. But not every man feels he's are being whipped or castrated because he chooses NOT to behave in certain ways that may be considered a little more animalistic. Sometimes, it's because he is not a comformist, and may find the ritualistic bachelor party a bit incomprehensible or in poor taste. Sometimes, it's because he is in love with someone, and doesn't want to do anything that might hurt her.

 

If a guy is a bit more like the common denominator, that's ok too. But he should probably pursue women who is of the same mind. There's no harm in having different views. I don't equate going to a strip club to cheating. But don't expect a woman who has an extreme distaste for it to just go with the flow either. It's like asking her to just settle for being whipped herself. Why? Because all men are that way? I don't think so.

 

Expecting a woman to accept his values that are unacceptable to her when he can't accept hers is hypocritical. I say if you can't bridge the gap, move on and find someone who does have your same values.

 

No harm, no foul.

[Woggle]

It's good to see that people don't have double standards. Wrong is wrong no matter what gender.

 

I feel no need to have a stripper or go to a strip club for a bachelor party. Acts like that are supposed to symbolize the last day of freedom for a man and if marriage is going to take away a man's freedom he is picking the wrong woman. For my first marriage we just went to a bar and had some fun. I got a bit wasted but no other women. For my 2nd marriage both sets of friends had a nice house party. It might seem small in the big scheme of things but if this is any indication of how he disrespects her concerns then maybe it is time to leave.

[EasyHeart]

I wish you would post more often. I enjoy your logical and analytical reasoning. You see things that, I think, many people don't see clearly.

Except that it had absolutely nothing to do with what I posted and accused me of saying things that I never said.

[tigressA]

I just remembered that when my BF had gone away for a boys' weekend in NYC over a month ago that a couple of his friends had suggested going to a strip club. My BF said he wouldn't. They didn't go, but had teased him a little bit and when he answered the phone when I called (I heard them in the background), but he stood his ground, kept his spine and respected our relationship.

 

OP's friend's BF disrespected not only his girlfriend, but himself. He showed quick readiness to bend under peer pressure and completely disregard boundaries that were agreed upon by both himself and his GF. I really, really hope your friend gets rid of this coward, OP. If she doesn't then she is willingly subjecting herself to more disrespect.

[EasyHeart]

I really, really hope your friend gets rid of this coward, OP. If she doesn't then she is willingly subjecting herself to more disrespect.

I do, too. But for his sake, not hers!

[Enchanted Girl]

I just remembered that when my BF had gone away for a boys' weekend in NYC over a month ago that a couple of his friends had suggested going to a strip club. My BF said he wouldn't. They didn't go, but had teased him a little bit and when he answered the phone when I called (I heard them in the background), but he stood his ground, kept his spine and respected our relationship.

 

OP's friend's BF disrespected not only his girlfriend, but himself. He showed quick readiness to bend under peer pressure and completely disregard boundaries that were agreed upon by both himself and his GF. I really, really hope your friend gets rid of this coward, OP. If she doesn't then she is willingly subjecting herself to more disrespect.

 

Yea, in fact, guys like this are actually whipped by their friends. Because their friends suggest something and they automatically do it. What, you don't have the balls to ever think for yourself? XD I'm sorry, is it only terrifying when a girl asks you to do it?

[Houndsoflove]

It's choosing between being called a wimp by your friends and betraying your partner's trust. Personally, I'd rather be teased and called names by friends than flush a good relationship down the toilet for some sexual contact I didn't even want in the first place.

 

From the other side, I wouldn't be able to trust a man who would allow himself to be pushed into doing something that he knew crosses a clear boundary just because his buddies are egging him on to do it. I'd rather be with someone who doesn't bend to peer pressure so easily.

 

I'd love to see a man stating that he doesn't really mind that his girlfriend is getting horny grinding a naked guy in a night club.

 

 

Exactly.

No one should date someone who chooses losing their partners trust over a bit of teasing. That is what a boy does, not a man.

 

She stated a clear boundary, cut and dry. He consciously crossed it when he had the choice not to.

[Houndsoflove]

Also, no one should pay attention to Easyheart.

[Eclypse]

 

OP's friend's BF disrespected not only his girlfriend, but himself. He showed quick readiness to bend under peer pressure and completely disregard boundaries that were agreed upon by both himself and his GF. I really, really hope your friend gets rid of this coward, OP. If she doesn't then she is willingly subjecting herself to more disrespect.

 

These are quite venomous comments you are saying. From the way you put it, he sounds like a criminal.

 

Humans are not perfect. Would you like to be crucified for every mistake you've made? Doesn't everyone deserve a second chance?

 

If you take a gander at the OM / OW and infidelity forums there are people who have been in affairs for years yet have decided to work on their marriage with their spouse and are still together. Are all the BS who took back a WS weak and letting them walk over them as was mentioned would be the case in this thread a few times if she forgave him?

 

Surely no one, anywhere, ever would consider a lap dance at your cousins bachelor party to be worse than a 3 year affair with your secretary while you come home and lie to your wife's face every night.

 

Yes she should be mad and let him know he did wrong, but if she chooses to end a 1yr relationship over this then... It's clear there were other, deeper issues manifesting themselves here.

[Enchanted Girl]

These are quite venomous comments you are saying. From the way you put it, he sounds like a criminal.

 

Humans are not perfect. Would you like to be crucified for every mistake you've made? Doesn't everyone deserve a second chance?

 

If you take a gander at the OM / OW and infidelity forums there are people who have been in affairs for years yet have decided to work on their marriage with their spouse and are still together. Are all the BS who took back a WS weak and letting them walk over them as was mentioned would be the case in this thread a few times if she forgave him?

 

Surely no one, anywhere, ever would consider a lap dance at your cousins bachelor party to be worse than a 3 year affair with your secretary while you come home and lie to your wife's face every night.

 

Yes she should be mad and let him know he did wrong, but if she chooses to end a 1yr relationship over this then... It's clear there were other, deeper issues manifesting themselves here.

 

Not true because, from experience, a person in your relationship who disrespects boundaries in small things will move on to bigger ones . . . . . like cheating. Not always, but a repeated offender often will.

 

Either choice she makes, I'd honestly support her.

[vsmini]

Yes she should be mad and let him know he did wrong, but if she chooses to end a 1yr relationship over this then... It's clear there were other, deeper issues manifesting themselves here.

 

I would also be conflicted just as she is if this was happening in my relationship and I assure you that the only deeper issue that is manifesting is that I'm a girl that knows her boundaries and would not want them crossed again down the line. Because as others have said - it often leads to cheating and more crap down the road and I would rather be single than be with someone that crosses mutual, previously agreed upon boundaries. I've been in relationships before where the crossed boundary started out "small", like a lap dance, gave a second chance and boom - big mistake. I live and learn. I don't live and repeat mistakes. Even if someone thinks that might not be fair to the new guy. Sorry. I wouldn't expect a guy to give me a second chance if I screwed up the way this guy did.

 

Just like someone who wanted to be single for life- it doesn't mean they have deep rooted issues...or a guy that wants to be a bachelor for the rest of his life. It's a choice on how I want to live my life and how I want my relationships to be. I'm not stomping my foot saying the world is picking on me or that all men are scum. I know what I want and what I accept and if I don't get it then I go and find what I do want. That simple.

Edited June 16, 2011 by vsmini

[EasyHeart]

Also, no one should pay attention to Easyheart.

Sheesh, you sound like my mom . . . .

[OriginalPenguin]

I am amazed to see this thread has 9 pages when:

 

Boundry was established and agreed upon.

 

Boundry was then crossed.

 

Why is this even a question?

[vsmini]

I am amazed to see this thread has 9 pages when:

 

Boundry was established and agreed upon.

 

Boundry was then crossed.

 

Why is this even a question?

 

I do appreciate all of the replies and I've gained a lot of insight from quite a bit of them. I was surprised to see a few (mind, a few, not a lot) where some people thought it was ridiculous to even be mad at the guy. Though they had some proper insight as well.

It proved to be an interesting thread I think.

 

No update on Liza (friend I OP'd about) yet.