So he gets a lap dance after you've already discussed it crosses your boundaries...

June 15, 2011

I'd love to see a man stating that he doesn't really mind that his girlfriend is getting horny grinding a naked guy in a night club.

I said it earlier in the thread.

Here you go:

Girls and the whole "strip clubs are funny for us" business-- I don't buy it. I got a few adventurous female friends that frequent those places once in a while, and the stories I hear are more than just "LOLOL," it's more like, "omg, you should have seen what some of those girls were doing!"

But with that said, I don't give two ****s about women I am with going to strip clubs. As long as they're not out sucking dicks, I won't even question it. It's all in good fun. I expect the same respect from them.

June 15, 2011

Maybe he secretly doesn't want to be with a woman who puts him in the fun position of looking like a total tool in front of his friends or betraying his word to her.

I guess something like that, but then again he'd be trying to please everyone. A friend to everyone is a good friend to no-one.

She shouldn't have put him in such a position and he shouldn't have agreed to no lap dances. Sounds like they both have some learning to do. Ruby is right though, she set a limit and he broke it so now she's forced to dump him. Her own fault really though.

Ah, but she did and he did. I don't think she has to dump him. They will do well to have a talk, for him to decide what he wants and say it, and for them to go from there. This dumping someone every time there's an argument is a bit slash and burn, IMO.

The bachelor party is a manly rite of passage, and yes it's a double standard. They still exist, doesn't mean they are always wrong. You aren't doing your relationship any favors by not taking the guy's last name when getting married and you certainly aren't by setting him up for humiliation in front of his friends.

Er, women watch the Chippendales and Full Monty shows, so no, it's not a double standard. At least not universally.

June 15, 2011

The bachelor party is a manly rite of passage, and yes it's a double standard. They still exist, doesn't mean they are always wrong. You aren't doing your relationship any favors by not taking the guy's last name when getting married and you certainly aren't by setting him up for humiliation in front of his friends.

I have no idea what taking someone's surname has to do with this.

My H doesn't go to strip clubs and has not problem whatsoever communicating that to other men. He certainly doesn't feel humiliated doing so.

June 15, 2011

I find bachelor and bachelorette parties to be so retarded, for this and many reasons. I can't justify a "it was a bachelor party" defense because any way I try to understand anything that happens at a typical "bachelor" party ends up with me feeling like I'm being condescending, so I don't even bother.

Dude. Are you single? I totally agree.

June 15, 2011

Maybe he secretly doesn't want to be with a woman who puts him in the fun position of looking like a total tool in front of his friends or betraying his word to her.

She shouldn't have put him in such a position and he shouldn't have agreed to no lap dances. Sounds like they both have some learning to do. Ruby is right though, she set a limit and he broke it so now she's forced to dump him. Her own fault really though.

The bachelor party is a manly rite of passage, and yes it's a double standard. They still exist, doesn't mean they are always wrong. You aren't doing your relationship any favors by not taking the guy's last name when getting married and you certainly aren't by setting him up for humiliation in front of his friends.

So now we've learned that you dont ever want to have a relationship with a woman, what else have we learned?

June 15, 2011

She actually is a bit concerned that she has a naive view of relationships.

She has been in previous relationships where boundaries were crossed and she constantly let them slide. So she made sure that it would never happen again. Now a firm boundary has been broken and she can either talk the talk or walk the walk.
Aside from cheating/lap dances/affairs she doesn't have this long list of what he can or can't do. It's really not like that.

What she thinks is wrong has been discussed with him, he agreed and then did it anyway. Puts her in a position where she can let the relationship either sink or swim.

I would break up with him.

I am in my mid-forties and I have given 2nd chances to men after they did something of which they knew very well that I did not accept it, and the only thing that happened is that they continued to do hurtful things.

Therefore I no longer give people more than one chance. My view is that someone who does not respect what is important for me, does not deserve me.

If she accepts this, she gives him the signal that this is OK.

June 15, 2011

So now we've learned that you dont ever want to have a relationship with a woman, what else have we learned?

:lmao:

June 15, 2011

Meh. I think the sanctity of the bachelor/bachelorette party thing is overblown and way too often used as an excuse to justify ****ty behavior.

Agreed, and to emphasize, that goes for both genders.

Personally, I've never really understood the concept of one last hurrah of being a free, single man/woman a few days before your wedding day. If you're engaged and in a committed, monogamous relationship, you haven't been single for a long time. You should've had your last hurrah before you agreed to exclusivity. It just seems like an outdated ritual that often causes too many problems that are completely and utterly avoidable.

My husband didn't have a strip club bachelor party either--I can only think of one friend who did that. They're so outmoded and cliche, IMO. I don't know, it's not big in my local subculture so it's hard to empathize with the reverence this seems to inspire in some posters.

It's not big among my group of friends, either. And if one of them decided to have a bachelorette party at a strip club, I'd politely decline.

Me, I don't know as I'd kick him to the curb but I do know I'd lose a lot of respect for my husband if he did something he knew would hurt me, because he didn't want his friends to tease him or think something bad about him. That seems like the weak reasoning of a child, and that would be a turn-off. It makes me think of my parents exasperatedly asking me if all my friends jumped off a bridge, would I jump off too? back when I was thirteen and struggling to deal with peer pressure.

This is a huge part of it: not being able to say no to friends even if he thinks something isn't quite right. That's a character weakness, IMO.

June 15, 2011

How about "I'm not going to get a lap dance because I don't want to", because he made a commitment that he intends to respect?

That would be my issue with it, and I would question whether our principles are compatible. Is he able to reach healthy compromises about differing opinions, or does he prefer to rely on damage control after the fact? If he likes lap dances, he should have been honest that he potentially might get one at the bachelor party when his girlfriend discussed her discomfort, instead of simply agreeing with what she said. It comes across as weak and disregarding otherwise.

You're still gaining insight into a partner's character a year into a relationship, so this isn't something I'd brush off. I don't consider it some unreasonable sacrifice of his autonomy or his friends' esteem if a guy doesn't get his pelvis ground on by other women after he agreed not to. Using that reasoning as a justification is pathetic.

Edited June 15, 2011 by O'Malley

June 15, 2011

Good gravy, he went to a bachelor party! What the heck did she think the guys were going to do?

Honestly, some of you women really need to re-think your priorities. You have these absurd lists of things men are not allowed to do: they can't look at porn, they can't look at other women, they can't get a lapdance, they can't wear blue shirts, and they'd better not gain an inch on their waists (but they better not waste time going to the gym, either!). I swear you're not looking for boyfriends; you're looking for pets.

You're also clueless. Have you ever been to a strip club? Have you ever had a lap dance? If you had, you know that lap dances are pretty much the LEAST arousing activity on the planet, and strip clubs are the safest places in the world for married/dating men because there is no way in hell any of those women are going home with your loser of a guy. None. They wouldn't even TALK to your boyfriend unless he is handing her $20s. Get it?

If I ever had a girlfriend who dictated terms to me, I would be gone in a nanosecond. "Boundaries" seems to be a euphemism for "Sit, Rover, sit!"

June 15, 2011

If not getting lap dances from other girls is such a problem for somebody, maybe that somebody shouldn't be in an exclusive relationship.

Same deal - if you think of bachelor/bachelorette party as of "last night of freedom", then why get married if you think it's imprisoning you?

Just saying.

June 15, 2011

She actually is a bit concerned that she has a naive view of relationships.

She has been in previous relationships where boundaries were crossed and she constantly let them slide. So she made sure that it would never happen again. Now a firm boundary has been broken and she can either talk the talk or walk the walk.
Aside from cheating/lap dances/affairs she doesn't have this long list of what he can or can't do. It's really not like that.

What she thinks is wrong has been discussed with him, he agreed and then did it anyway. Puts her in a position where she can let the relationship either sink or swim.

I would break up with him.

I am in my mid-forties and I have given 2nd chances to men after they did something of which they knew very well that I did not accept it, and the only thing that happened is that they continued to do hurtful things.

Therefore I no longer give people more than one chance. My view is that someone who does not respect what is important for me, does not deserve me.

If she accepts this, she gives him the signal that this is OK.

The fact that he immediately told her does not make it OK. Would it be OK if he sleeps with another woman and immediately tells her? And how did he tell it to her? As a matter of fact or with regret. It sounds to me that he already knew he would immediately tell her at the very moment he was at it, in order to get away with it.

The fact that it is a bachelor's party does not make it OK either.

The question is whether she wants to be with a guy who enjoys dryhumping a woman from time to time and even more importantly how safe she will feel in this relationship now that this has happened. Imagine she forgives him and gets over it and in 5 years he does it again when they have already a kid so then it will be even more difficult to break up with him.

In a relationship you try to avoid doing things which hurt the other. Personally I also don't want a relationship with a guy whose idea of fun is to behave like a pig on a bachelor's party.

June 15, 2011

Hey!

I want to say thanks for all the replies. It's given me a lot to think about in my own relationship as well and hopefully I can help my friend out a little more if she comes back to me for advice and/or guidance.

I think the issues of lapdances is split down the middle between both women and men on if they are acceptable or not. Again - this isn't really the issue when both the guy and the girl in the relationship had both previously agreed to them being inappropriate. The issue is crossed boundaries and what she is willing to accept or not accept.

Pretty much all has been said for both sides of it and I really appreciate it.

June 15, 2011

But I think expecting perfection also dooms a relationship. There has to be love, tolerance and forgiveness too.

Everybody has things which they don't want to forgive.

If the girl does not dump him, he will do similar things again.

In a relationship, you want to deal with an adult. It's kids who refuse to do what their mother asks of them not adults. In a relationship between grown-ups, you define a boundary and you ask your partner if he wants to stick to it or not. If he agrees he will, then he cannot cross that line. Ever.

I find sexual exclusivity extremely important in a relationship and for me this means that there are certain things you only do with your partner. Getting lapdances is one of them.

June 15, 2011

Went to a bachelor party with strippers a while ago. More than a few guys declined any contact with the girls.

No reason why your guy couldn't have done the same.

RF

June 15, 2011

Lap dances vary from tepid to raunchy. Some places the girls will still wear bikini bottoms or lingerie. Vast majority will not allow you to touch the girl or move your body in a manner that would offend the dancer. You sit in a chair with your arms at your side and the girl does all the gyrating while you sit immobile. They don’t all grind in your lap trying to induce a boner from the patron. It’s been a fair while but the last one I got she sat on me but facing me going through the motions of her routine. As Easyheart said its hardly all that arousing.

I can’t believe some of the comparisons I've read here...like simulated sex positions, humping the woman, pashing a stranger at a bar or extrapolations like this has opened the door to sleeping with other women. Doing an erotic lambada dance with a stranger on a dance floor is closer to it..If you had to stay still while only the other person swayed around you, they weren’t getting the least bit aroused by the event and they warned you if you dared touch them they would have the bouncer evict your arse.

As someone else said, people have different definitions of what is a significant issue. Lap dances & strip clubs are not a big deal for me and I would have no problem agreeing to not getting lap dances if it was big issue with my gf. I would not agree to consider it being the equivalent of cheating however, and I would request that rare events like bachelor nite or a celebration nite out for a friend who made partner would be the exception, but that definitely would not necessarily mean I would go for a lapdance (not as likely now but when I was younger and the parties were in full swing and the bachelor is shouting, then yep)

I would have/have had no problem with a gf going out on a hens nite that involved strippers. I wouldn't feel intimidated or concerned that she would turn into a cheating tramp if she had told me that one of the strippers wacked her with his schlong or sat on her lap. If I found out she was going ooh ooh and jumping up and down to go on stage for some kinky act or knelt down while the stripper wrapped his cape around her, then it would be a different story.

She laid it on the line as to what her boundaries were and he agreed to abide by them. I can understand on that basis alone why this is annoying her. Its up to her if she considers this one incident where he had a sponsored lapdance is going to set the trend for the rest of the relationship. (she said he's a great guy otherwise..and are great guys thick on the ground). It looks like she is going to chuck him, so with the next guy, next time she has this boundaries discussion maybe she should speak in a sterner tone while jabbing her finger into his chest to drive the point home.

Edited June 15, 2011 by ascendotum

June 15, 2011

If you had to stay still while only the other person swayed around you, they weren’t getting the least bit aroused by the event and they warned you if you dared touch them they would have the bouncer evict your arse.

I almost start to pity you... If it's only that much fun, then why are you doing it and giving money to it???

June 15, 2011

Good gravy, he went to a bachelor party! What the heck did she think the guys were going to do?

Honestly, some of you women really need to re-think your priorities. You have these absurd lists of things men are not allowed to do: they can't look at porn, they can't look at other women, they can't get a lapdance, they can't wear blue shirts, and they'd better not gain an inch on their waists (but they better not waste time going to the gym, either!). I swear you're not looking for boyfriends; you're looking for pets.

You're also clueless. Have you ever been to a strip club? Have you ever had a lap dance? If you had, you know that lap dances are pretty much the LEAST arousing activity on the planet, and strip clubs are the safest places in the world for married/dating men because there is no way in hell any of those women are going home with your loser of a guy. None. They wouldn't even TALK to your boyfriend unless he is handing her $20s. Get it?

If I ever had a girlfriend who dictated terms to me, I would be gone in a nanosecond. "Boundaries" seems to be a euphemism for "Sit, Rover, sit!"

Why do you think it's so unreasonable for one partner to ask the other partner to agree to not do things that they know will hurt them and make them feel bad? Anyway, he was free to not agree. As you said, you'd have been gone in a nanosecond. I imagine he could have done the same, I didn't hear any mention of leg irons.

Anyway, to answer your question, I have been to strip clubs, male and female, gay and straight and in-between. I had a roommate and a couple other friends who worked in strip clubs in various capacities, and thus I've been to strip clubs in multiple countries on multiple continents. I am well aware of what goes on in many strip clubs.

I sometimes wonder why some men feel so passionate about retaining their right to have naked women on their lap and not have to feel bad about it, that they try to make women in general feel they should be ashamed about having a reaction to that. The irony is rather rich, when they sit loudly proclaiming that they will shame and judge anyone who doesn't change their behavior and feelings because they're so righteously angry about other people wanting their behavior and feelings to change. Dude, all you have to say is that it's mega-important to YOU, and then go looking for a woman who's on the same page as you. You don't have to try to make all women everywhere feel like they're being horribly emasculating harridans for not liking strip clubs, that's really kind of silly. The whole world doesn't react within the exact emotional parameters you have set for yourself.

My man is on the same page as me here, which is a good thing. It's something we'll never fight about, because it's not an issue, because we're on the same page. If this girl from the OP decides she would rather be with a man who's on the same page as her, more power to her.

Edited June 15, 2011 by Stung

June 15, 2011

I sometimes wonder why some men feel so passionate about retaining their right to have slippery naked women bounce on their lap and not have to feel bad about it, that they try to make women feel they should be ashamed about having a reaction to that. The irony is rather rich, when they sit loudly proclaiming that they will shame and judge anyone who doesn't change their behavior and feelings because they're so righteously angry about other people wanting their behavior and feelings to change. Dude, all you have to say is that it's mega-important to YOU, and then go looking for a woman who's on the same page as you. You don't have to try to make all women everywhere feel like they're being horribly emasculating harridans for not liking strip clubs, that's really kind of silly. The whole world doesn't react within the exact emotional parameters you have set for yourself.

Nicely said.

June 15, 2011

I sometimes wonder why some men feel so passionate about retaining their right to have naked women on their lap and not have to feel bad about it, that they try to make women in general feel they should be ashamed about having a reaction to that. The irony is rather rich, when they sit loudly proclaiming that they will shame and judge anyone who doesn't change their behavior and feelings because they're so righteously angry about other people wanting their behavior and feelings to change. Dude, all you have to say is that it's mega-important to YOU, and then go looking for a woman who's on the same page as you. You don't have to try to make all women everywhere feel like they're being horribly emasculating harridans for not liking strip clubs, that's really kind of silly. The whole world doesn't react within the exact emotional parameters you have set for yourself.

Precisely where did I say or do anything remotely like what you accuse me of doing?

June 15, 2011

It's a batchelor party. Let it slide.

I don't consider it cheating by any stretch at all. And to ask a guy to refrain while at a batchelor party is unreasonable. I would never put my guy in the position of losing face to such an extent with his friends.

If he went out and did it on his own for kicks, then it would be a different story.

Why is it okay suddenly because its at a bachelor party and not at other times? I'd think it would either be okay all the time or not at all.

I've had friends pressure me and mock me for not cheating on my boyfriend like they do on theirs. I've looked like an idiot in front of them because of it, but that wouldn't make it suddenly acceptable if I did cheat on him. "Oh well, my friends thought I was uncool if I didn't do it." So?

In most things, I'll respect this. I won't run up and hug them or act affectionate around friends or call them while they are out or ask them to be home at a certain time or do anything in front of them that makes it look like he's tied down, but at the same time, its disturbing that men encourage one another like this not to have good relationships or respect their girlfriend's/wife's boundaries.

I have purposefully in all my relationships with men gone out of my way to make sure his friends don't feel like I stole him from them. They could always do the same thing, but never give a ****. And in turn, often, neither do boyfriends I have. Except my current one who is an amazing guy.

June 15, 2011

Precisely where did I say or do anything remotely like what you accuse me of doing?

Honestly, some of you women really need to re-think your priorities.

Indicating that women have to re-prioritize based on your core values.

June 15, 2011

Indicating that women have to re-prioritize based on your core values.

It has nothing to do with your "core values". It has to do with this "List" mentality that seems endemic to women who are unsuccessful in maintaining their relationships.

I think many women who have trouble with relationships should re-think their approach of treating men as objects that need to be controlled and start thinking of them as unique individuals who should be enjoyed. And stop using psychobabble like "boundaries" and "respect our relationship" as license to act as pretentious arbiters of all that is holy.

June 15, 2011

It has nothing to do with your "core values". It has to do with this "List" mentality that seems endemic to women who are unsuccessful in maintaining their relationships.

I think many women who have trouble with relationships should re-think their approach of treating men as objects that need to be controlled and start thinking of them as unique individuals who should be enjoyed. And stop using psychobabble like "boundaries" and "respect our relationship" as license to act as pretentious arbiters of all that is holy.

It's not about control at all.

And by your rationale - if you're in a relationship and something bothers you then you shouldn't be able to hold it against them if they go ahead and do it. So if my guy has an issue with me going out to strip clubs and holding some guy's d*ck and I go out and do it anyway - he should just be okay with it? because then he's just using a list on me. And please know that the guys we are dating do have "boundaries" set in place too. It's not just women.

I can't imagine what kind of relationships you have if you think boundaries and respecting a relationship is "babble"

June 15, 2011

It's not about control at all.
And by your rationale - if you're in a relationship and something bothers you then you shouldn't be able to hold it against them if they go ahead and do it. So if my guy has an issue with me going out to strip clubs and holding some guy's d*ck and I go out and do it anyway - he should just be okay with it? because then he's just using a list on me. And please know that the guys we are dating do have "boundaries" set in place too. It's not just women.

I can't imagine what kind of relationships you have if you think boundaries and respecting a relationship is "babble"

I have relationships in which neither of us tries to micromanage the other person and no one holds things against each other. We treat each other as adults and respect each other as individuals.

You should give it a try some time. It's nice.

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So he gets a lap dance after you've already discussed it crosses your boundaries...

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