So he gets a lap dance after you've already discussed it crosses your boundaries...

[vsmini]

...what do you do?

 

No trouble in paradise but I do have a friend who has the same views on strip clubs - lap dances in particular as I do - we consider it cheating. Yes - shocker of all shocks - having a naked woman grind her ass into your erection is cheating in my book.

 

She's made it clear that it's a boundary breaker and he agreed. He's never had one before but after 1 year of being together he goes off to his cousin's bachelor party and gets a lap dance that his cousin paid for. He came back and told her the second he got home and now she doesn't know what to do.

 

She said it was a boundary breaker (as I also agree) and it was broken...even after it's been discussed and the guy is aware that it's something she views as wrong.

 

She doesn't want to break up but she feels like she has had her trust broken and doesn't feel like it says much about her as a strong woman if he does something that she feels strongly against and still stays with him.

 

I tried to put myself in her shoes and I'm heartbroken for her as I would feel the same....i think I would at least.

 

This happened last night and she told him to leave her alone while she thinks about it.

 

Ladies? Thoughts? All I can seem to say to her is "I'm sorry, I don't know what to say."

[vsmini]

It's a batchelor party. Let it slide.

 

I don't consider it cheating by any stretch at all. And to ask a guy to refrain while at a batchelor party is unreasonable. I would never put my guy in the position of losing face to such an extent with his friends.

 

If he went out and did it on his own for kicks, then it would be a different story.

 

I don't see how - disrespect is disrespect - and I think she brought up a very good point - why on earth would he do it after he agreed not to and said he understood that it was a boundary pusher for her. And on top of it all - these are the exact same guys he'll be "proudly" introducing her to next month.

[Ruby Slippers]

I would end it. If you communicate to someone that X is a boundary, then they cross that boundary and 'break the deal', and you let it slide -- you are telling them that your boundaries can be stepped over. You're essentially telling them you don't mean what you say, you have no integrity with yourself, and you will condone a lack of integrity from them. And this doesn't lead anywhere good.

[Queen Zenobia]

I don't see how - disrespect is disrespect - and I think she brought up a very good point - why on earth would he do it after he agreed not to and said he understood that it was a boundary pusher for her. And on top of it all - these are the exact same guys he'll be "proudly" introducing her to next month.

 

Guys tend to not want to look "whipped" or "sissy" in front of other guys so will often accept a lap dance even if they're a little hesitant about it. Look, they went to a strip club for a bachelor party, not just for kicks. She can be mad if she wants but it's really not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. The other guys are good guys I'm sure, it's not like they're drug dealers or anything.

 

Just curious...do you also consider porn to be cheating?

[youngskywalker]

I agree you have to take into consideration that is was a cousins bachelor party. There's a lot of peer pressure at an event like that. So even if in his mind he didn't want to do it, it's unlikely he wasn't going to unless he's a seriously strong person.

 

And heck, cut the man a little slack, I'm not even allowed to look at porn. *sigh* You can only keep the leash so tight until it strangles the man.

[vsmini]

Guys tend to not want to look "whipped" or "sissy" in front of other guys so will often accept a lap dance even if they're a little hesitant about it. Look, they went to a strip club for a bachelor party, not just for kicks. She can be mad if she wants but it's really not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. The other guys are good guys I'm sure, it's not like they're drug dealers or anything.

 

Just curious...do you also consider porn to be cheating?

 

I don't know if she considers porn to be cheating - that's a good point as I don't consider porn cheating. I think getting a real-live lap dance is different from porn though. Not to mention - it's out in public with the very same guys she'll probably be introduced to at the wedding and go out as a group with.

 

I mean....talk about "saving face" in front of the guys...what about HER face?

[vsmini]

it's unlikely he wasn't going to unless he's a seriously strong person.

 

Well that's kind of the problem here - she wants a guy that's a seriously strong person.

High standards - gotta love her.

And I don't think they are unrealistic standards.

[sweetjasmine]

I would end it. If you communicate to someone that X is a boundary, then they cross that boundary and 'break the deal', and you let it slide -- you are telling them that your boundaries can be stepped over. You're essentially telling them you don't mean what you say, you have no integrity with yourself, and you will condone a lack of integrity from them. And this doesn't lead anywhere good.

 

I agree.

 

If I went to a bachelorette party, and my friends "forced" me to make out with some random guy at a bar, I think my SO would have every right to feel like I betrayed him and violated his trust. I'd rather have my friends make fun of me for being "whipped" than disrespect my partner who has made his boundaries clear.

 

As for the porn thing, they're completely different. Looking at images is different from having sexual physical contact with a live human being. Equating porn to a lap dance is like equating a Brad Pitt movie to grinding with a shirtless guy at a night club.

[Fondue]

I mean....talk about "saving face" in front of the guys...what about HER face?

What about her face?

 

Yah, he crossed the line she clearly drew out for him. There is no denying that.

 

But let's look at things from a different perspective:

- He immediately told his gf, without trying to hide it from here or sugar coat it. He admitted it. Isn't that a positive?

- He was among friends, at a BACHELOR party. Imagine what the guys would have thought of him if he said, "nah, man. My gf prohibits me from getting lap dances." He would look like the biggest wimp ever!

- She was with this guy for a year. Doesn't that say something about the dude? He's probably a good guy.

 

If she wants to end things 'cause of that, that's fine. She has all right to do so. He DID break the "rules." But in the end, is a year-long relationship worth cancelling for this? She should consider that first...

[Queen Zenobia]

I don't know if she considers porn to be cheating - that's a good point as I don't consider porn cheating. I think getting a real-live lap dance is different from porn though. Not to mention - it's out in public with the very same guys she'll probably be introduced to at the wedding and go out as a group with.

 

I mean....talk about "saving face" in front of the guys...what about HER face?

 

Why does that matter? If they don't make it a habit to go to strip clubs I think it's safe to continue socializing with them.

 

If she feels like he's an otherwise great guy then I wouldn't end it. But then again I don't think I'd really mind if my guy got a lap dance from someone who was paid to do it (at a bachelor party no less).

[carhill]

Yep, probably better to end it now than when the BF gets a bachelor party thrown for him at a strip club and, well, you know

 

I guess, after 52 on this rock, I actually need to go to a strip club and see what all the hubub is about.....

[vsmini]

What about her face?

 

Yah, he crossed the line she clearly drew out for him. There is no denying that.

 

But let's look at things from a different perspective:

- He immediately told his gf, without trying to hide it from here or sugar coat it. He admitted it. Isn't that a positive?

- He was among friends, at a BACHELOR party. Imagine what the guys would have thought of him if he said, "nah, man. My gf prohibits me from getting lap dances." He would look like the biggest wimp ever!

- She was with this guy for a year. Doesn't that say something about the dude? He's probably a good guy.

 

If she wants to end things 'cause of that, that's fine. She has all right to do so. He DID break the "rules." But in the end, is a year-long relationship worth cancelling for this? She should consider that first...

 

You do make some points and yes it is a positive that he told her and was up front and honest about it. I just think being in his early thirties he's old enough to not give a sh*t if his friends thinks he is a wimp....especially when he knows he could be ruining a really good thing with a girl he wants to marry (I guess they've discussed it) But just because he's nice and honest really shouldn't mean that he can cross lines when he feels like it. It's not like you earn 10 nice points and get to cash them in and do something bad.

 

She's in the midst of considering it. She doesn't know. She doesn't like the idea of a boundary that she has set, him agreeing to it and then crossing it and her letting it slide. Talk about looking like a wimp.

[Queen Zenobia]

She's in the midst of considering it. She doesn't know. She doesn't like the idea of a boundary that she has set, him agreeing to it and then crossing it and her letting it slide. Talk about looking like a wimp.

 

If she's seriously considering ending the relationship then there's an underlying issue (or series of issues) beyond him simply going to a strip club. How many of us have heard stories (or done this ourselves) of women giving guys second, third, fourth, twentieth chances after they did something far worse? I'd bet my first born that there's something else going on.

[sweetjasmine]

Imagine what the guys would have thought of him if he said, "nah, man. My gf prohibits me from getting lap dances." He would look like the biggest wimp ever!

 

It's choosing between being called a wimp by your friends and betraying your partner's trust. Personally, I'd rather be teased and called names by friends than flush a good relationship down the toilet for some sexual contact I didn't even want in the first place.

 

From the other side, I wouldn't be able to trust a man who would allow himself to be pushed into doing something that he knew crosses a clear boundary just because his buddies are egging him on to do it. I'd rather be with someone who doesn't bend to peer pressure so easily.

[Fondue]

You do make some points and yes it is a positive that he told her and was up front and honest about it. I just think being in his early thirties he's old enough to not give a sh*t if his friends thinks he is a wimp....especially when he knows he could be ruining a really good thing with a girl he wants to marry (I guess they've discussed it) But just because he's nice and honest really shouldn't mean that he can cross lines when he feels like it. It's not like you earn 10 nice points and get to cash them in and do something bad.

 

She's in the midst of considering it. She doesn't know. She doesn't like the idea of a boundary that she has set, him agreeing to it and then crossing it and her letting it slide. Talk about looking like a wimp.

 

I kind of disagree with you, vsimini. I think it showed character for him to ball up and tell her without beating around the bush.

 

"Yah, I crossed the line, but I have enough respect for you to tell you up front that I did."

 

Do you think he looks like less of a wimp if he did it anyway and never told her? And what if she found later on? Wouldn't you be making the same statement, calling him not only a liar, but a coward for not fessing up to it immediately?

 

Does that make any sense? It sort of does in my head .

[Cee]

 

If she wants to end things 'cause of that, that's fine. She has all right to do so. He DID break the "rules." But in the end, is a year-long relationship worth cancelling for this? She should consider that first...

 

I agree with this viewpoint. If she wants to end things, she might want to consider the entirety of the relationship rather than isolating that one transgression.

[vsmini]

I kind of disagree with you, vsimini. I think it showed character for him to ball up and tell her without beating around the bush.

 

"Yah, I crossed the line, but I have enough respect for you to tell you up front that I did."

 

Do you think he looks like less of a wimp if he did it anyway and never told her? And what if she found later on? Wouldn't you be making the same statement, calling him not only a liar, but a coward for not fessing up to it immediately?

 

Does that make any sense? It sort of does in my head .

 

Yes I see what you are saying but it kind of cancels out when he's basically saying "But I didn't have enough respect for you to just decline the lap dance in the first place."

See what I'm saying?

 

The rest of what you say about her finding out later on and calling him a liar isn't really important as the only issue she's dealing with is the fact he did it. He doesn't get brownie points for the fact that he saved her the trouble of calling him a liar. That's not even on the table right now.

[Citizen Erased]

That's the funny thing about boundaries. You can communicate them 100%, yet get a guy with a naked woman paid by one of his buddies and she's rubbing her pussy all over him in a minute, boundaries forgotten in the name of "saving face" once they have to admit to their other half what went down. Really, there's a hot chick and he's more than happy to simulate sex with her, don't get to do that with another woman apart from their partner any day right.

[vsmini]

I agree with this viewpoint. If she wants to end things, she might want to consider the entirety of the relationship rather than isolating that one transgression.

 

Yes and that is what she's doing right now. Because from my understanding it is a very, very good relationship. Open and honest and everything she wants.

 

The ISSUEs are:

 

He crossed a boundary. This was something they had both discussed in the past - he was not in the dark about it at all and knew what he was doing when he did it.

 

She feels if she lets this slide then it could potentially lead to more boundaries being crossed and her not being taken seriously. And she said: what about his brother's party next year? or his own?

 

A part of her feels betrayed and that maybe she misread what a good relationship they really had if this happened to begin with.

[vsmini]

There is a HUGE difference between going out to strip clubs for fun and attending a batchelor party. I doubt if he considered it crossing her line.

 

I wonder what she would do if invited to a batchlorette party at a strip club? And one of the girls paid a guy to dance in her face? Would she stand up and walk out?

 

Seriously. She needs to lighten up on this. It's just not a big deal and I think he followed the spirit of her wishes if not the letter.

 

 

He knew it crossed her boundary. They discussed lap dances at batchelor parties specifically. She actually did bring that up about a guy strip club and yes she would walk out...or not even go in the first place because she thinks they are gross. Plus - when girls get lapdances from guys it's usually just funny. They aren't getting wet and aroused like men are from strip joints.

^also another thing this couple talked about and agreed upon.

 

So everything was out on the table for this guy. Even the girl at the male strip club scenario.

[Fondue]

Yes and that is what she's doing right now. Because from my understanding it is a very, very good relationship. Open and honest and everything she wants.

 

The ISSUEs are:

 

He crossed a boundary. This was something they had both discussed in the past - he was not in the dark about it at all and knew what he was doing when he did it.

 

She feels if she lets this slide then it could potentially lead to more boundaries being crossed and her not being taken seriously. And she said: what about his brother's party next year? or his own?

 

A part of her feels betrayed and that maybe she misread what a good relationship they really had if this happened to begin with.

I'm sorry to say, but I think your friend is deathly paranoid.

 

A good relationship is a good relationship. If she's judging a relationship on one deal-breaker a year into it, there are some underlying issues. Absolutely there are. She may be using this "opportunity" to express it.

 

Especially if she is focusing on this particular issue and the upcoming bachelor parties (some of which you mentioned 1+ year from now).

 

But again, he did break her rule. So I don't have qualms with her ending the relationship because of it. But I firmly believe that there is something else going on, or she has some deep self esteem issues or something. Doesn't sound like a quality girl in my eyes.

[Queen Zenobia]

Yes and that is what she's doing right now. Because from my understanding it is a very, very good relationship. Open and honest and everything she wants.

 

The ISSUEs are:

 

He crossed a boundary. This was something they had both discussed in the past - he was not in the dark about it at all and knew what he was doing when he did it.

 

She feels if she lets this slide then it could potentially lead to more boundaries being crossed and her not being taken seriously. And she said: what about his brother's party next year? or his own?

 

A part of her feels betrayed and that maybe she misread what a good relationship they really had if this happened to begin with.

 

Really? So because he went to a strip club and got a lap dance (that someone else paid for) he's now going to go and do a whole bunch of other bad things?

 

Here's the real issue: they really don't have a lot of common values. He's a little more flexible on things and she's really uptight. This relationship was doomed from the start because they were incompatible, not because of his "infidelity".

[tigressA]

I would end it. He blatantly disrespected her boundaries after having agreed to them. If she continued the relationship then he would know it's okay to walk all over her.

[Fondue]

He knew it crossed her boundary. They discussed lap dances at batchelor parties specifically. She actually did bring that up about a guy strip club and yes she would walk out...or not even go in the first place because she thinks they are gross. Plus - when girls get lapdances from guys it's usually just funny. They aren't getting wet and aroused like men are from strip joints.

^also another thing this couple talked about and agreed upon.

 

So everything was out on the table for this guy. Even the girl at the male strip club scenario.

Girls and the whole "strip clubs are funny for us" business-- I don't buy it. I got a few adventurous female friends that frequent those places once in a while, and the stories I hear are more than just "LOLOL," it's more like, "omg, you should have seen what some of those girls were doing!"

 

But with that said, I don't give two ****s about women I am with going to strip clubs. As long as they're not out sucking dicks, I won't even question it. It's all in good fun. I expect the same respect from them.

[daphne]

I agree with you and the whole kit and caboodle about boundaries, saving face etc etc. It's ok for him to embarrass her, so long as he's not embarrassed for being a wimp. I'd like to reverse the roles here, where she gets a guy to rub on her. I'm pretty sure whatever her reasons were for doing it would be a moot point. Women are asked to tolerate embarrasing behavior because "men are men." PFFFFTT.

 

I don't know what I'd do. But I would probably distance myself from the person and take time to think if it's worth continuing. He knew what he was doing, and he did it. He knew how it would make her feel. Telling her teh truth scarcely mitigates it.

 

On another note, I have male friends who tell me what goes on in some of the bachelor parties. And it's not just lap dancing.