Ouroboros Posted June 15, 2011 Posted June 15, 2011 Sarah, here's a little sample of Ouroboros from another thread. After a woman poster describes a boyfriend who doesn't listen to her, is inconsiderate, and bloodied up her vagina during sex: Star Gazer: I didn't even know I had bled - he told me when he pointed it out. It didn't hurt either, although it wasn't pleasant. But I was sore within like 5 minutes. Ouroboros: He sounds like the bf you need but isn't the bf you want. Star Gazer: You think I need someone who doesn't listen to me, or apparently care about my needs? Someone I'm physically turned off by? Someone who I have no chemistry with in bed, and who's, dare I say, selfish and clueless in bed? Someone who expects me to put him before my friends, after only 6 or so weeks? Ouroboros: Yes, you need someone who can keep you in check. To keep you on your toes. A person who your lawyer schemes won't work on. Perfect balance. Perfect harmony. Star Gazer: This must be a joke. Staying in this relationship would not be good for me in any way, shape, or form. Ouroboros: The reasons why you should stay which I have listed are exactly why you are pulling away. Star Gazer: I am pulling away because I am physically repulsed by him. Staying with someone who physically repulses me and uses me as a masterbatory device will not do me ANY good. You're trolling. Please go away. Ouroboros: I'm not trolling but I'll go away. Ouroboros: That sounds like how you would see it but isn't he madly in love with you iirc? Star Gazer: Umm, see above. Please keep your promise. Ouroboros: Oh I went away from that line of thought. Ms. Joolie: Gosh I'm late to the party. Have you decided how to break up with him yet? Star Gazer: I've settled on a phone call. Ouroboros: Why even do it with that much tact? Why not a singing telegram? Ouroboros is a person who doesn't get a whole lot of attention from other Humans in real life, so he's trolling for attention in an anonymous setting. In other words, he's a person who would be doing the world an enormous favor if he would grab a toaster and jump into the nearest bathtub, but since we're not going to be able to convince him to do that, the next best option is to place him on ignore, which is what I have done. Star Gazer is our problem child who has gotten away with whatever she likes so far in her life. She needs someone to keep her in line and not be a wet noodle who will flex which ever way she wishes. Ouroboros isn't a troll, he's a worm. Still if Ouroboros doesn't think it's loving to help her to a wise decision, I'm not it's loving to be advising her to make a poor decision either. I think sweetsarah will be looking back on this in a few years and breathing a big sigh of relief and wondering WTH was she thinking, but lord knows I've done that too. But I've got to tell you that even if he is wonderful, in-law problems can be a real b*tch. I should know and mine were only half bad. If she doesn't break free now then she will be fettered to their capricious whims and arbitrary decisions on her life for some time to come. It would be much more clear to you if she was coming to us for advice on an arranged marriage she didn't like.
Author sweetsarah Posted June 15, 2011 Author Posted June 15, 2011 I am pretty sure I will end it with him, but a part of me still wishes things could have worked out. I know that going solely off of emotions is not a smart idea, especially with someone who has had a criminal history and I will not hurt my parents in the long run. They have done far too much for me. Almost everyone is telling me that ending it with him is a right decision and I guess sometimes I get so caught by what he tells me ( as seen by previous posts) and then on skype he showed me that he bought me an expensive promise ring as well. Sometimes I just wonder like maybe he does truly love me, but then I know at the same time that I can't do this to my family. Advice?
Ouroboros Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 There is no more advice to give. He loves you but your family hates him. The criminal history is an excuse. You'll see that with the next boy. You had to make a choice and you are making it. Either side of the decision will have consequences. That's what life is like.
Untouchable_Fire Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 I live in the U.S. Today my mom was very disappointed and told me that she has suffered all her life because of her mother in law. And now, as her daughter I am disappointing her and she felt like there was no reason to live. I am stuck between two worlds. Either I can continue to make my family happy or sacrifice my happiness. I wish they would just give him a chance to show that he is willing to do anything for me. My mom is judging his background and believes because of his background he is going to try to use me and hurt me. From the way I know, I know he will never do anything like that. I understand that your family is hard to deal with... but they only want the best for you! You live in America... so you put up with your family until you get the ability to support yourself then you make your own choices. As for your BF... What woman doesn't love a criminal. Smart women Judge men by their actions and not their words. Just take time to learn about him. Also... don't just love the first guy who gives you attention!
coffeeaddict Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 There's no way of sugarcoating it, you can only judge a person by their actions, not their words. The guy's knifed someone, he's done hard time, he wants to become a rapper. You mentioned that you just met him the other day, yet he's aggressively pursuing you, he's offering you shelter away from you family (encouraging you to leave them), he's 26 and you're right out of high school. When you put all the pieces of the puzzle together it's not pretty, and that's why your family's so emotional, they can see this ugly picture too, and they don't want their daughter to become part of that ugly picture. You're an A student, you're studying biomedical engineering, you've got a caring family, that's a promising path. It isn't just your family's happiness Vs your happiness, your family's actually trying to protect your long-term happiness. It's just difficult to see it because you feel those lovesick feelings, but you'll feel that way about a number of people in your life, you're right at the beginning. In a decade or two when you're sitting at a picnic with a gentle breeze blowing, a loving husband by your side and children playing in meadow (If that's what you want out of life), you're not going to look back and think, "Gee I wish I'd married that aspiring rapper who stabbed somebody over drugs." But if you get involved in that lifestyle now and become, "Bonnie and Clyde," it's very likely that in a decade you'll look back and think, "God I wished I still had my family and I wish I had gone to school and studied biomedical engineering."
musemaj11 Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 And didnt Bonnie and Clyde end up getting shot to death?
musemaj11 Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 (edited) I am pretty sure I will end it with him, but a part of me still wishes things could have worked out. I know that going solely off of emotions is not a smart idea, especially with someone who has had a criminal history and I will not hurt my parents in the long run. They have done far too much for me. Almost everyone is telling me that ending it with him is a right decision and I guess sometimes I get so caught by what he tells me ( as seen by previous posts) and then on skype he showed me that he bought me an expensive promise ring as well. Sometimes I just wonder like maybe he does truly love me, but then I know at the same time that I can't do this to my family. From the sound of it, he does love you. At least right now. But you seem like a very intelligent girl who gives logic a chance instead of relying solely on emotion. Look at the big picture. He is 26, an ex-convict with criminal history of violence and drug dealing. He never went to college and doesnt have a job. Thanks to his criminal record and educational background, this guy will probably never have any job above being a janitor. If you run away with him, chances are you will have to support him for the rest of your life. And whats worse is that what if a year or more from now he no longer loves you? What happen then? You wont have family to go to anymore since they already disowned you ... At 18 one is an adult. Childhood ends at about 12 when adolescence begins. She is about as mature as she'll come. Scientists claim there is further development in the brain into one's early twenties but I haven't seen that play out as better decision making. A person acts a particular way at 18 will be acting the same way at 40 and at 70. Pfffttt, utter bullcrap. Im 25 now and I can say that I was such an immature clueless child when I was 18 compared to now. Edited June 16, 2011 by musemaj11
coffeeaddict Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 And didnt Bonnie and Clyde end up getting shot to death? Good point, lol.
stepka Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 I am pretty sure I will end it with him, but a part of me still wishes things could have worked out. I know that going solely off of emotions is not a smart idea, especially with someone who has had a criminal history and I will not hurt my parents in the long run. They have done far too much for me. Almost everyone is telling me that ending it with him is a right decision and I guess sometimes I get so caught by what he tells me ( as seen by previous posts) and then on skype he showed me that he bought me an expensive promise ring as well. Sometimes I just wonder like maybe he does truly love me, but then I know at the same time that I can't do this to my family. Advice? He bought an expensive promise ring? He's got sources honey--I doubt he bought it. And he can't truly love you--not after a few days. This is where experience comes into play. We women have this fantasy of being swept off our feet by a wonderful prince charming who sees us and just falls in love with how fabulous we are. But the reality is that men who do that have some serious issues and it's not you they're in love with--it's the idea of you and if you don't live up to their fantasy of what you're like then you've got a rough road ahead. I understand that your family is hard to deal with... but they only want the best for you! You live in America... so you put up with your family until you get the ability to support yourself then you make your own choices. As for your BF... What woman doesn't love a criminal. Smart women Judge men by their actions and not their words. Just take time to learn about him. Also... don't just love the first guy who gives you attention! No, there will be other men and you'll probably meet a really nice fella in engineering school whom you'll have much more in common with. But it's certainly possible that you have a thing for the bad boy type. So go get one who looks like a bad boy but who has a heart of gold. And by the time you get old enough to support yourself you'll be laughing at yourself for wanting to do this. Good luck!
musemaj11 Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 So go get one who looks like a bad boy but who has a heart of gold. Yea, while you are at it also get yourself a unicorn.
Author sweetsarah Posted June 16, 2011 Author Posted June 16, 2011 Thank you so much! I honestly don't want a horrible lifestyle and leaving him would be the best option. I don't want to ruin my reputation because of his past, regardless if he is a changed man- which he keeps claiming that he is. He keeps telling me that he loves his family a lot and he would be willing to sacrifice his family for me. But just because he is able to do that doesn't mean I should too, which makes me really angry with him. Then he keeps telling me that he's talked to other people about what they think about the situation and they all told him that if she loves you then her actions will show it, meaning that I will leave my family. I told him that is something I will not do. He is telling me, "please just make that step for me so I can show you how much I love you. If you don't let me do that for you then I won't be able to show you how much I love you" (pretty much asking me to leave my family and give him a chance). That is just something too much to risk that I am not ready for. Well it seems like I had made my decision and I have to stay firm on my decision and not melt whenever I talk to him.
Ouroboros Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 I don't want to ruin my reputation because of his past Now this is really sounding like love. Obviously only one of you is in love. Time to move on and stop toying with him.
BetheButterfly Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 (edited) I am pretty sure I will end it with him, but a part of me still wishes things could have worked out. I know that going solely off of emotions is not a smart idea, especially with someone who has had a criminal history and I will not hurt my parents in the long run. They have done far too much for me. Almost everyone is telling me that ending it with him is a right decision and I guess sometimes I get so caught by what he tells me ( as seen by previous posts) and then on skype he showed me that he bought me an expensive promise ring as well. Sometimes I just wonder like maybe he does truly love me, but then I know at the same time that I can't do this to my family. Advice? Do you need to make the decision very soon? Ask him to wait for you. If he truly loves you, he can wait till you get out of college. If he is trying to hurry you into making e rash decision of running away with him, that is not good. Ask him to be friends until after you graduate, and see what he says, k? It's never a good idea to rush into a life changing decision. Are your parents wanting you to be in an arranged marriage with someone else? Just read your other post... I do think it's the best decision at the moment to end it with him. Whether that means no longer talking to him anymore, or just stepping back to be friends, I don't know. I know it's hard, but yes it does seem like a case of infatuation of both sides, and right now he has not had time to truly change (cause change most often takes time) and you have a wonderful opportunity to get a great education, given to you by parents who love you. This is not what any of you need right now... to have a Romeo/Juliet relationship. Edited June 16, 2011 by BetheButterfly
Author sweetsarah Posted June 16, 2011 Author Posted June 16, 2011 He said that he doesn't want to wait that long because he will be put into the same situation about my family in the long run too. My parents want me to make a decision of getting married on their own but getting it approved by them. Someone who is educated, doesn't have a criminal background, and is preferably the same religion.
Author sweetsarah Posted June 16, 2011 Author Posted June 16, 2011 He said he doesn't want to wait because he will be put into the same situation about my parents later on. My parents want to be marry someone of my own choice, but get it approved by them. Someone who is educated, doesn't have a criminal background, and is preferably the same religion.
BetheButterfly Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 He said that he doesn't want to wait that long because he will be put into the same situation about my family in the long run too. How so? My parents want me to make a decision of getting married on their own but getting it approved by them. Someone who is educated, doesn't have a criminal background, and is preferably the same religion. That's reasonable. Do you think that it is possible to be friends with him as you go to college, and see if your parents' hearts warm to him as they see that he indeed has changed and is ok for their daughter? Right now, they don't have much to go on in trusting he won't hurt you... his past does show tendency to violence. He needs time to show people otherwise, and time respecting your family and your education is good, I'd think.
stepka Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 Thank you so much! I honestly don't want a horrible lifestyle and leaving him would be the best option. I don't want to ruin my reputation because of his past, regardless if he is a changed man- which he keeps claiming that he is. He keeps telling me that he loves his family a lot and he would be willing to sacrifice his family for me. But just because he is able to do that doesn't mean I should too, which makes me really angry with him. Then he keeps telling me that he's talked to other people about what they think about the situation and they all told him that if she loves you then her actions will show it, meaning that I will leave my family. I told him that is something I will not do. He is telling me, "please just make that step for me so I can show you how much I love you. If you don't let me do that for you then I won't be able to show you how much I love you" (pretty much asking me to leave my family and give him a chance). That is just something too much to risk that I am not ready for. Well it seems like I had made my decision and I have to stay firm on my decision and not melt whenever I talk to him. See this is what makes me think he hasn't changed. "He says, he says, he says." He says he talked to people and they said. . . he says he would give up his family for you. . . he says he will show you . . . but by the time you figure out it's all talk your family has already disowned you. In freshman sociology, one of the things that always stuck with me was the concept that people who end up wealthy or middle class and those who end up poor have one major difference. The difference is that poor people are completely unable to delay gratification. They must have whatever they want now. Whether it's bad for them or just bad for them now, they can't wait. And that's what I'm reading into this situation with your guy--he is completely unwilling to wait for you and for the situation to become more amenable to your dating. He won't take the time to actually get to know your family and show them that he's changed. He won't put the work in that's necessary to build a life and family with you. That's not love--that's a man who wants your virginity. And do you know how many of these guys have babies by 8 different mamas? Some of them can't even remember the names of all their children. (My ex works for social security) Why don't you ask him how many babies he already has. . . . BTW, I'm not picking on his race--lots of white and hispanic men live their lives this way also--the only diff is whether he sold crack or meth.
Author sweetsarah Posted June 16, 2011 Author Posted June 16, 2011 What he's telling me to do is to make the step for him against the wishes of my family and then love me and care for me for them to see that I am happy and that will make them accept him. That is too risky. And when I tell him that, he asks, "Do you not trust me, do you not believe in me? Do you not think I want to spend the rest of my life with you trying to make you happy? I would rather put you first before myself or anyone else. Leaving you would never be an option for me."
coffeeaddict Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 And when I tell him that, he asks, "Do you not trust me, do you not believe in me? Do you not think I want to spend the rest of my life with you trying to make you happy? I would rather put you first before myself or anyone else. Leaving you would never be an option for me." He met you the other day and he wants to spend the rest of his life with you trying to make you happy? And for him to do this you need to leave your family, and if you don't do this then you don't "trust him." It's just a lot of sweet-talk.
NeoGen85 Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 Alright. I'm going to tell you a similar experience from the man's perspective without the criminal reform or being a criminal in general. A classic interracial tale of black and white American "love": I dated a white girl who was five years younger then myself. Here parents disapproved of her dating me because of the color of my skin and the sterotypes that come with it. We didn't let that get us down. But there was also something else important in her life. College! It was out of town and in my heart I wanted her to stay with me. But it was more important for her to finish her education. Even if that meant for our relationship to be done with. If your boyfriend really cared about you he would tell you to focus on your education. But on another note; my girl and I eventually broke up anyway. She fell for another guy, moved in with him, etc. She also sacrificed her education and independence for him. This was within 3 months of them dating. You can call it being content or caught up in something. Your pick. My opinion..do not get addicted to a person and sacrifice your well-being. By the way, what is your boyfriend doing to reform himself after being in jail? To be honest, I would be worried for you too. Not to mention...how did you meet him?
Author sweetsarah Posted June 16, 2011 Author Posted June 16, 2011 He tells me that he wants my education to come first and wants me to have the perfect gpa and he would never let me sacrifice my education. Honestly though, having such a serious relationship with such a hard major is going to be difficult and hard to focus. He said he's going to go to audio engineering school, go to the studio, and simply hope to become famous and make money.
denise_xo Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 OP, you're even worse than me when I was 18 Seriously, I really really doubt any long term potential in this. I don't think it's worth losing your family over it. I say this as someone who was prepared to choose my current partner over my family, and we are still together. But from the information you have given in this thread, there are just so many red flags. Move on.
stepka Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 What he's telling me to do is to make the step for him against the wishes of my family and then love me and care for me for them to see that I am happy and that will make them accept him. That is too risky. And when I tell him that, he asks, "Do you not trust me, do you not believe in me? Do you not think I want to spend the rest of my life with you trying to make you happy? I would rather put you first before myself or anyone else. Leaving you would never be an option for me." Yeah, I've heard all of that stuff before and not one of them is still in my life. And thankfully so. He said he's going to go to audio engineering school, go to the studio, and simply hope to become famous and make money.
coffeeaddict Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 Offering to commit the rest of his life to someone he's known for a few days is flakey. This business about becoming a famous rapper is also flakey. Trying to distance you from your family is selfish and comes from an impure motivation. Your family's more than just a source of financial support, they're part of you, part of your identity. When you throw in the age difference and the criminal record, it's more red flags than you can count. As far as trying to make you feel guilty because you don't trust him or believe in him, why should you trust him? Trust isn't given away carte blanche, trust is earned. You can only trust or mistrust a person based on their actions, based on their track record. Since you barely know him, there's nothing to inspire trust. If you flip the question around, there's plenty in his background to inspire mistrust. What he's doing now a 26 year old man applying so much pressure on an 18 year old girl to leave her family and making wild and grandiose promises, that alone is enough to inspire mistrust. You can't see these things clearly because that limbic system in the brain takes over the decision making process when we fall in love, and shuts out the rational part. It's not the straight A student going for biomedical engineering who's making the decisions right now. You're feeling those lovesick feelings and thinking about the romance and the excitement of it all. That's how a lovesick astronaut can end up driving 1000 miles wearing a diaper and wielding a BB gun to confront her rival. For anyone else that would seem irrational, but in that astronaut's state of mind, it seemed perfectly rational. Your family can see the picture clearly and that's why they're so protective of you, they see a threat to you and they're looking out for your happiness and your safety.
spiderowl Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 (edited) I do believe that people can reform and see the error of their ways, though a lot don't. I don't think people should be advising you to leave him. They don't know him. BUT there are a few things that concern me: - he's quite a lot older than you and he is certainly old enough to see you are vulnerable. If he was a true friend of yours, he would not be encouraging you to go against your parents wishes - nor would he do anything that might threaten your education - or put any pressure on you There are a few things I've learned in life and I think they might be useful to you: - Never trust a guy who says "trust me". I learned this the hard way and since then it has always proved true. If someone is saying "trust me", they are trying to persuade you because you are doubtful. Why would your boyfriend try to persuade you to go against your instincts? - Because a guy says he loves you, wants you, cares about you, doesn't mean a thing. What means something are actions that show these things are true. - If a guy says he loves you and wants you and doesn't want to be without you, he is not actually saying he cares about you - no, he is talking about HIS needs not yours. - Because someone says they like you or think you are attractive, or even love you does not mean they are nice people. It does not matter how much someone says they want and need you, what matters is what kind of person they are and how they treat you. We have been taught from age dot that someone being friendly wants to be friends - it doesn't mean they are necessarily the kind of person we want as our friend. For all we know, your boyfriend might be reformed and he might go on to have a glittering career in music. We can't judge someone we don't know. What you can do though is to look at his actions and to decide whether they are the actions of someone seeking something he needs or whether he has your best interests at heart. If he had your best interests at heart, he probably would not have got involved with a much younger and more vulnerable girl anyway. Edited June 17, 2011 by spiderowl
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