Crazy chick1 Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 Just to update. I spoke to MM today & although we probably did overstep the mark in terms of what we talked about, we both agreed that we cannot go back to the PA for obvious reasons. I really enjoyed talking & laughing with him & it made me feel more happier & calmer. I feel like (& I've told him) I'm now weaning myself off him gradually, because the way the A ended before was just too harsh. I need to do it my way rather than having it forced upon me. I just hope I get to the point of wanting to let go for good before he does! He must know something about the impact he has on me though as he asked me whether I felt I'd had my 'fix'! Oh & he has asked me to call him again tomorrow & I'm glad because once a week for an hour simply isn't enough. I know we can't talk like we used to (hours everyday) but once a week was a total nightmare.
bentnotbroken Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 Just to update. I spoke to MM today & although we probably did overstep the mark in terms of what we talked about, we both agreed that we cannot go back to the PA for obvious reasons. I really enjoyed talking & laughing with him & it made me feel more happier & calmer. I feel like (& I've told him) I'm now weaning myself off him gradually, because the way the A ended before was just too harsh. I need to do it my way rather than having it forced upon me. I just hope I get to the point of wanting to let go for good before he does! He must know something about the impact he has on me though as he asked me whether I felt I'd had my 'fix'! Oh & he has asked me to call him again tomorrow & I'm glad because once a week for an hour simply isn't enough. I know we can't talk like we used to (hours everyday) but once a week was a total nightmare. And how does his wife feel about your unilateral decision?
Author Crazy chick1 Posted June 12, 2011 Author Posted June 12, 2011 His W doesn't know, she hates me but her animosity doesn't change the fact that me & him (wrongly) developed feelings & if he talks to me that helps my state of mind. Yes it's not good but still much better than jumping back into bed surely?
bentnotbroken Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 His W doesn't know, she hates me but her animosity doesn't change the fact that me & him (wrongly) developed feelings & if he talks to me that helps my state of mind. Yes it's not good but still much better than jumping back into bed surely? In bed or talking to a man who is married and his wife doesn't know and won't approve is the same....betrayal of trust. The rest is semantics. Keeping the bond going will eventually land you in bed with him again anyway. Just do it now and get it over with.
Author Crazy chick1 Posted June 12, 2011 Author Posted June 12, 2011 It really isn't the plan to sleep with him again. I need to get away from him for sure but NC hurts too much right now.
carhill Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 My best friend and I talk about twice a week, not counting business, and usually get together once a week. We've been best friends for the better part of a decade and friends for around 20 years. His wife, who loves me like a brother, made a special birthday dinner for me last month. I'm using this as an example of 'friends'. Having been in this situation on both sides (MM/OP), IMO there's still an emotional romantic attachment going on, meaning 'affair' and, if the MM's wife isn't disclosed, cheating (lying) as well. That's valid and it should be accepted as such. You can certainly be healthy friends after all of the affair stuff has processed, romantic emotional attachments no longer prevail, and the MM and his W have resolved their issues and moved on. That might mean a reconciled and healthy M or it might mean D. For most people, that takes a few years to work through. In my case, from time of disclosure (about a week after I realized the attachment) to divorce was about three years and five months. Lots of pain and expense in between. I wish you well on your journey.
bentnotbroken Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 It really isn't the plan to sleep with him again. I need to get away from him for sure but NC hurts too much right now. Did you plan to be in an affair with him? Did you plan to be an OW? If not planning isn't a guarantee that you aren't going to sleep with him. Contact continues the affair...period. How much pain do you think you might experience if his wife finds out?
Author Crazy chick1 Posted June 12, 2011 Author Posted June 12, 2011 To put it simply, his W CANNOT find out. I was to blame for d day last time & I will be so careful. I do not want it to go wrong again. When we end contact for good, I desperately want it to be on my terms. I do not really understand his motivation for being in touch with me, he told me today that he missed our conversations & enjoys talking to me, which seems pretty weak to me based on the trouble he is risking if his W finds out. But I won't push the issue, because ultimately he is a grown man who can make his own decisions. I'm certainly not forcing him to keep in touch with me.
bentnotbroken Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 To put it simply, his W CANNOT find out. I was to blame for d day last time & I will be so careful. I do not want it to go wrong again. When we end contact for good, I desperately want it to be on my terms. I do not really understand his motivation for being in touch with me, he told me today that he missed our conversations & enjoys talking to me, which seems pretty weak to me based on the trouble he is risking if his W finds out. But I won't push the issue, because ultimately he is a grown man who can make his own decisions. I'm certainly not forcing him to keep in touch with me. No your aren't forcing him. You aren't discouraging either. So you are just as culpable. I wouldn't want to be in either of your shoes when she finds out. You have no idea how bad it can get. You might think she cannot find out, but there are always things done in the dark that come to light.
Author Crazy chick1 Posted June 12, 2011 Author Posted June 12, 2011 Having experienced a d day, I know extremely well how bad it is. I'm not sure why it would be any worse IF we got found out (especially as we aren't technically cheating)? And like I said, I got complacent before & won't make the same mistakes twice.
bentnotbroken Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 Having experienced a d day, I know extremely well how bad it is. I'm not sure why it would be any worse IF we got found out (especially as we aren't technically cheating)? And like I said, I got complacent before & won't make the same mistakes twice. And there is your problem. :laugh:What about betrayal is technical? Either you do or you don't. Having experienced one d-day says nothing about subsequent d-days. It is fool hardy to think that things will go exactly the same way as before....oh, but you aren't technically cheating so maybe the next d-day want be technical either. :laugh:
Silly_Girl Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 Just to update. I spoke to MM today & although we probably did overstep the mark in terms of what we talked about, we both agreed that we cannot go back to the PA for obvious reasons. I really enjoyed talking & laughing with him & it made me feel more happier & calmer. I feel like (& I've told him) I'm now weaning myself off him gradually, because the way the A ended before was just too harsh. I need to do it my way rather than having it forced upon me. I just hope I get to the point of wanting to let go for good before he does! He must know something about the impact he has on me though as he asked me whether I felt I'd had my 'fix'! Oh & he has asked me to call him again tomorrow & I'm glad because once a week for an hour simply isn't enough. I know we can't talk like we used to (hours everyday) but once a week was a total nightmare. Hey Crazy, do what you think best, bur PLEASE don't lie to yourself. Know what you're doing and be okay with it, or don't do it at all. It IS 'technically' cheating. So carry the affair on, for your own reasons, or quit it. But be aware of your actions else it's as though you're out of control at a time when you perceive yourself to be very much IN control. Dangerous.
bentnotbroken Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 Yes. Don't lie to yourself. Be honest as you did with this post I am deluding myself. Being back in touch with MM albeit on only a once a week basis feels so good right now, because he convinced us both after d day that he was out of my life forever & would be giving his all to his M. I feel as though he is meeting a need I have where before there was a huge hole in my life with his name on it. I genuinely do love him & contact with him medicates the pain I felt in NC. The couple of months or so of NC has gone now & was basically in vain because as soon as he throws me under the bus again, I realise that I will be back to square one. I know that this short term boost is going to lead to misery in the long term but it's too late now. Damn. I truly am a fool.
jj33 Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 Yes. Don't lie to yourself. Be honest as you did with this post Bent and Silly are both right on the mark IMO. You need to be really careful because sooner or later either there will be a temptation for one of you to start the affair again or he will disappear unless you meet someone first. And then more time will have passed and it will hurt even more if you are not the one to cut the cord. I was in your shoes. And what was a very civilized affair if you can call it that (his wife knew) became extremely uncivilized about a year after it ended. It took several years for us to be anything approaching friends. And even now I am not sure we are friends. We are former lovers who have a fondness for each other. That is much different than friends. When you first get out of an affair and you are in touch with the person because its too painful not to be, that is not a friendship. That is I cant accept that its over and this person is not going to be a part of my future. Its natural that it takes time to accept that but you have to be honest with yourself as the other said. You are really going to hurt more down the line if you dont. The more you are in touch the tougher it is to break away emotionally. And if you are concerned with his wifes feelings, yes he is still cheating. He is being deceptive and really is that the kind of guy you want? He told you both he was working on the marriage and he is still in touch with you? Hes not someone you want to count on in the future.
TurboGirl Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 In bed or talking to a man who is married and his wife doesn't know and won't approve is the same....betrayal of trust. The rest is semantics. Keeping the bond going will eventually land you in bed with him again anyway. Just do it now and get it over with. So true. Rip the bandaid off very quickly, go NC. Then you will get over it. Otherwise, you are just playing... you can still "talk" blah blah blah, but you are not really friends. You are just continuing your addiction to the "good" feelings and the BS that your xMM is feeding you. You will cave eventually and end up starting the A again, and trust me - it will be much harder to get over the longer it goes.
MissBee Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 Just to update. I spoke to MM today & although we probably did overstep the mark in terms of what we talked about, we both agreed that we cannot go back to the PA for obvious reasons. I really enjoyed talking & laughing with him & it made me feel more happier & calmer. I feel like (& I've told him) I'm now weaning myself off him gradually, because the way the A ended before was just too harsh. I need to do it my way rather than having it forced upon me. I just hope I get to the point of wanting to let go for good before he does! He must know something about the impact he has on me though as he asked me whether I felt I'd had my 'fix'! Oh & he has asked me to call him again tomorrow & I'm glad because once a week for an hour simply isn't enough. I know we can't talk like we used to (hours everyday) but once a week was a total nightmare. Wow.... I'm not looking down on you, I hope you understand, but 2 years ago when my ex and I broke up I would have probably been saying these same things. I was in essence addicted to this man and I handed over my own power and feelings of happiness to him so much when he in NO way was worthy of that. Now that it's all done I realized it was my own feelings of lack that allowed me to feel that way about him and not that he or the relationship was that great. When you're acting from a place of lack your judgment and selectivity is significantly skewed and it's like ANYTHING is better than nothing. I don't think that can happen again as I am in a different place but I also made a vow never to be in that position again where some man is a "fix" for me and it feels like a "nightmare" when we don't talk and my life in fear hoping I get over him before he gets over me...... When you said you're trying to wean yourself off him and hope he doesn't get over you first....that just sounded like a horrible place to be in and it's not truthful as from the looks of it...you have INCREASED your speaking time and you're still very much overly dependent on him for an emotional high, so I doubt any weaning off will occur. Your worst fears may just be realized (him getting over you first) especially since he seems to have a better handle on himself than you do.
MissBee Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 Bent and Silly are both right on the mark IMO. You need to be really careful because sooner or later either there will be a temptation for one of you to start the affair again or he will disappear unless you meet someone first. And then more time will have passed and it will hurt even more if you are not the one to cut the cord. I was in your shoes. And what was a very civilized affair if you can call it that (his wife knew) became extremely uncivilized about a year after it ended. It took several years for us to be anything approaching friends. And even now I am not sure we are friends. We are former lovers who have a fondness for each other. That is much different than friends. When you first get out of an affair and you are in touch with the person because its too painful not to be, that is not a friendship. That is I cant accept that its over and this person is not going to be a part of my future. Its natural that it takes time to accept that but you have to be honest with yourself as the other said. You are really going to hurt more down the line if you dont. The more you are in touch the tougher it is to break away emotionally. And if you are concerned with his wifes feelings, yes he is still cheating. He is being deceptive and really is that the kind of guy you want? He told you both he was working on the marriage and he is still in touch with you? Hes not someone you want to count on in the future. Yeppp! Precisely. The friendship card is often pulled in all kinds of breakups....and it is usually a farce! It's usually a form of denial of the reality of things and it doesn't usually work out. Real friendships aren't formed in the same ways as relationships are and especially if you were never friends to begin with, it is ridiculous to expect to be such after ending things. You CAN be but it takes separation and severing those emotional ties (which is what No Contact does). But to expect to go seamlessly from lovers to friends is crazy and the evidence is there that it usually ends up in a mess.
Author Crazy chick1 Posted June 12, 2011 Author Posted June 12, 2011 But I genuinely feel so much happier today having spoken with him, which can only be a good thing? He has so much more to lose than I have, so he's the one taking the risk, not me. I can't lose really because having experienced the aftermath & mess of d day, it cannot be any worse if something similar happens.
BB07 Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 Bent and Silly are both right on the mark IMO. You need to be really careful because sooner or later either there will be a temptation for one of you to start the affair again or he will disappear unless you meet someone first. And then more time will have passed and it will hurt even more if you are not the one to cut the cord. I was in your shoes. And what was a very civilized affair if you can call it that (his wife knew) became extremely uncivilized about a year after it ended. It took several years for us to be anything approaching friends. And even now I am not sure we are friends. We are former lovers who have a fondness for each other. That is much different than friends. When you first get out of an affair and you are in touch with the person because its too painful not to be, that is not a friendship. That is I cant accept that its over and this person is not going to be a part of my future. Its natural that it takes time to accept that but you have to be honest with yourself as the other said. You are really going to hurt more down the line if you dont. The more you are in touch the tougher it is to break away emotionally. And if you are concerned with his wifes feelings, yes he is still cheating. He is being deceptive and really is that the kind of guy you want? He told you both he was working on the marriage and he is still in touch with you? Hes not someone you want to count on in the future. Great post......I hope CC reads it and gets it.
bentnotbroken Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 But I genuinely feel so much happier today having spoken with him, which can only be a good thing? He has so much more to lose than I have, so he's the one taking the risk, not me. I can't lose really because having experienced the aftermath & mess of d day, it cannot be any worse if something similar happens. There is nothing to gain by sticking your head in the sand. You can say the above until the cows come home. It doesn't make it true or likely.
Author Crazy chick1 Posted June 12, 2011 Author Posted June 12, 2011 Bent and Silly are both right on the mark IMO. You need to be really careful because sooner or later either there will be a temptation for one of you to start the affair again or he will disappear unless you meet someone first. And then more time will have passed and it will hurt even more if you are not the one to cut the cord. I was in your shoes. And what was a very civilized affair if you can call it that (his wife knew) became extremely uncivilized about a year after it ended. It took several years for us to be anything approaching friends. And even now I am not sure we are friends. We are former lovers who have a fondness for each other. That is much different than friends. When you first get out of an affair and you are in touch with the person because its too painful not to be, that is not a friendship. That is I cant accept that its over and this person is not going to be a part of my future. Its natural that it takes time to accept that but you have to be honest with yourself as the other said. You are really going to hurt more down the line if you dont. The more you are in touch the tougher it is to break away emotionally. And if you are concerned with his wifes feelings, yes he is still cheating. He is being deceptive and really is that the kind of guy you want? He told you both he was working on the marriage and he is still in touch with you? Hes not someone you want to count on in the future. Yes, this is a good post. And yes, he did tell me that he is still 'working on his M' & whose to say he isn't still? A few conversations with me don't need to intrude in his life & M after the calls are ended.
Author Crazy chick1 Posted June 12, 2011 Author Posted June 12, 2011 There is nothing to gain by sticking your head in the sand. You can say the above until the cows come home. It doesn't make it true or likely. Sorry for sounding stupid, but I really don't understand what you mean when you imply things would be worse if his W were to find out about our contact this time?
MissBee Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 But I genuinely feel so much happier today having spoken with him, which can only be a good thing? He has so much more to lose than I have, so he's the one taking the risk, not me. I can't lose really because having experienced the aftermath & mess of d day, it cannot be any worse if something similar happens. Ermmm no not necessarily. When an addict gets a fix they "genuinely feel better" as well. It's a matter of short term gratification over the long term possible negative consequences. Yes you can lose...he is not as addicted to you, and you already expressed the fear of him moving on before you and how it's such a nightmare only to speak to him once a week...therefore I can imagine how much of a wreck you'll be if HE chooses to cut things off once and for all. Then you'll have that painful withdrawal (which is what you were experiencing initially but couldn't take it so ran back into the situation). Even how you phrase your questions, I know that you aren't oblivious and you kind of realize it is silly, you barely believe yourself.....I'm not sure if it was you who admitted you knew what you were doing was foolish, but you're gonna do it anyway. If it was you...then there you have it. It doesn't even seem like you have the strength to create grand defenses and lies like other posters who genuinely seem to believe the delusions....you don't even seem to believe them that much but are so dependent upon this man that you pretty much admit that anything is better than nothing and leaving him be is "too harsh" and you need him to feel better and hopefully it doesn't turn out to be a mess, but if and when it does, at least it's good right now. That's how you know it's a problem, when you realize all the cons and can't seem to make yourself let it go and then you only have half-hearted rationalizations for it. I think you should visit the Breaks and Breaking Up section of the forum, as it has a lot of advice and people who are in a similar position as you are. The advice there is more focused on breaking up, leaving things be and all the emotions and delusions that go along with that.
Author Crazy chick1 Posted June 12, 2011 Author Posted June 12, 2011 Ermmm no not necessarily. When an addict gets a fix they "genuinely feel better" as well. It's a matter of short term gratification over the long term possible negative consequences. Yes you can lose...he is not as addicted to you, and you already expressed the fear of him moving on before you and how it's such a nightmare only to speak to him once a week...therefore I can imagine how much of a wreck you'll be if HE chooses to cut things off once and for all. Then you'll have that painful withdrawal (which is what you were experiencing initially but couldn't take it so ran back into the situation). Even how you phrase your questions, I know that you aren't oblivious and you kind of realize it is silly, you barely believe yourself.....I'm not sure if it was you who admitted you knew what you were doing was foolish, but you're gonna do it anyway. If it was you...then there you have it. It doesn't even seem like you have the strength to create grand defenses and lies like other posters who genuinely seem to believe the delusions....you don't even seem to believe them that much but are so dependent upon this man that you pretty much admit that anything is better than nothing and leaving him be is "too harsh" and you need him to feel better and hopefully it doesn't turn out to be a mess, but if and when it does, at least it's good right now. That's how you know it's a problem, when you realize all the cons and can't seem to make yourself let it go and then you only have half-hearted rationalizations for it. I think you should visit the Breaks and Breaking Up section of the forum, as it has a lot of advice and people who are in a similar position as you are. The advice there is more focused on breaking up, leaving things be and all the emotions and delusions that go along with that. Damn it, you are so right in your analysis of me. I do know that I am being foolish, but feel that I am really struggling to walk in the other direction. Thankyou for the advice, I will take a look. Just one question, if I am so much more addicted than MM, how come he is the one taking the risks? Who's to say he isn't as 'addicted' as me?
Spark1111 Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 Sorry for sounding stupid, but I really don't understand what you mean when you imply things would be worse if his W were to find out about our contact this time? She most likely insisted on NC as proof he was serious about re-committing to the marriage. He probably convinced her you and her were over, never spoke or would never speak again when he initiated NC. She is just starting to believe him, maybe even trusting him again, maybe hoping against hope he is finally a man of his word. I'm with Bent....ALL BETS ARE OFF should she discover he is once again secretly contacting you. It's a perfect recipe for losing one's mind, committing violence, informing employers. You ready for that scenario? She won't believe it is a technicality that you aren't exactly sleeping together again.
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