ascendotum Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 Anybody is allowed to have their deal breakers and she told him of her boundaries and he agreed to accept them and not cross them. If he crosses her boundaries then he is showing her and the relationship disrespect. IMO the OP can't compare what he is trying to because he hasn't said they were deal breakers Agree with the above. She is being upfront at the very beginning of the relationship, as to what she wont tolerate in a relationship, still I would see it as an ultimatum, and I like alexlakem's stance on this.
soserious1 Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 FWIW the main point was not so much about porn as it was about her having a double standard. She wants to go out on dates with guys ... no touching was mentioned. He is not interested in porn. So is porn really his point or his girl friends interest which he equates to porn. I don;t think what she does is the same as porn. She is interacting with other men. Not watching porn. Just not the same thing at all. He is just as free as she is to define deal breaking behaviors, if her having male friends bothers him, he is totally within his rights to tell her it is a dealbreaker.. to demand she remove all men aside from her immediate family and necessary work contacts from her phone, facebook,email contact lists
Woggle Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 I can understand her stance on porn and she was honest from the start but she should respect you and not use her male friends for emotional support. I am all for men respecting women's demands on porn when they respect us in return.
TuffCookieX Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 This girl sucks. I enjoy watching porn with my men. I think it's hot if a guy watches porn on his own time too.
thatone Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) But she said she didn't want to date a man who watches porn--which she DOES NOT. but she's doing the same thing, so she doesn't get to make that demand! i can walk out on the street tomorrow and say i'm jesus reincarnated, but i don't get to complain if people laugh. she in no way deserves the honesty or respect of the OP. he should absolutely screw her til he's tired of her, THINK OF A PORN STAR WHILE DOING IT, and then drop her like a bad habit for the next comparable option that comes along. when she gets over herself she will start to find men more receptive to relationships. til then she deserves the grief she gets. when you try to manipulate people, don't bitch when they manipulate you back. you do not get to make all the rules. relationships are not between you and yourself, there's another person there. and that person will wind up doing whatever they do anyway regardless of what YOU want. Edited June 13, 2011 by thatone
callingyouuu Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) when you try to manipulate people, don't bitch when they manipulate you back. you do not get to make all the rules. relationships are not between you and yourself, there's another person there. and that person will wind up doing whatever they do anyway regardless of what YOU want. I'm sorry, but she's not manipulating him. In a relationship, everyone has demands, and it's his/her responsibility to make those demands clear. If a girl walks up to you and says that she doesn't date guys who wear khaki pants, that's not being manipulative. That's being weird. You're right, she doesn't get to make all the rules. However, being manipulative implies that one person is sort of coercing another into doing something that he or she actually would not want to do. In this case, she just told him something she hates in guys, and he had the absolute free will to do whatever he wanted. If he said that he's too attached to his porn to give it up, but then she tried to force him out of it, than yes, that would be a complete psycho who he needs to leave immediately. However, he agreed to the terms and conditions of the relationship. His next move is NOT to hit it and quit it, but to make his own terms and conditions about other guys clear. She doesn't get to make all the rules, but unless the OP mans up (no offense!) and makes his wishes clear, that's what's going to happen. Remember that she has every right to say no. If the OP can put up with that, the relationship goes on. If he can't, they need to break up. Honestly, this whole story is WAY to simple to be an issue of manipulation. i think jazzari meant that because his gf stated it at the beginning of their relationship, and not somewhere in between the beginning and now Just fyi, whether something is or isn't an ultimatum is not dependent on when the person decided to ask. Edited June 13, 2011 by callingyouuu
shadowofman Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 Basically what you are doing is trying to liken her irrational demand on the relationship. Even if you accepted the deal not to watch porn, the demand is still irrational in your mind so you are grasping for a counter irrational demand (she shouldn't have normal connections guy friends). Bottom line is that each behavior is completely rational. Instead of countering with irrationality, do not accept an irrational demand. Even if it is "no skin off your back". I don't eat ketchup on my burgers. But if a woman seriously told me that if I did she would leave me, I would start eating my burgers that way in a heartbeat.
thatone Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) I'm sorry, but she's not manipulating him. yes she is. You're right, she doesn't get to make all the rules. However, being manipulative implies that one person is sort of coercing another into doing something that he or she actually would not want to do. In this case, she just told him something she hates in guys, and he had the absolute free will to do whatever he wanted. If he said that he's too attached to his porn to give it up, but then she tried to force him out of it, than yes, that would be a complete psycho who he needs to leave immediately. However, he agreed to the terms and conditions of the relationship. His next move is NOT to hit it and quit it, but to make his own terms and conditions about other guys clear. She doesn't get to make all the rules, but unless the OP mans up (no offense!) and makes his wishes clear, that's what's going to happen. you're trying to justify your point by dreaming up a scenario that doesn't exist. the OP said he didn't care about porn, the girlfriend stated her demands anyways, as a projection of what she didn't like about an ex. immediately after she made the porn demands, she started pushing the boundaries on what he would tolerate with her single male 'friends'. that is manipulative. that is dishonest, and that is the mark of a girl who will be cheating on him with one of those single male 'friends' pretty quick. his next move IS to hit it and quit it because she's not relationship material. she's not deserving of any respect or honesty, because she hasn't given him any. she demands that he take the blame for something her ex did, and at the same time she engages in the activity that she is condemning. we can turn this 5 page thread into 30 pages and nothing between here and there will ever make her innocent or deserving of the respect for boundaries that she established and then promptly flirted with violating herself. Remember that she has every right to say no. If the OP can put up with that, the relationship goes on. If he can't, they need to break up. Honestly, this whole story is WAY to simple to be an issue of manipulation. Just fyi, whether something is or isn't an ultimatum is not dependent on when the person decided to ask. just as he has every right to lie to appease her until he gets what he wants. if you are a sane, rational, fair, and honest person you will probably be able to find someone who returns those qualities to you. if you are a selfish, dishonest, delusional, and controlling person you have no room to complain when those qualities are returned to you. yeah, it is simple. if you look at the facts instead of the fantasy that you keep presenting. problem is none of you women trying to defend her are doing anything remotely close to that. but it's ok, as a man i'm used to hearing about silly notions and completely imaginary situations devised to make women feel better about themselves. keep making up new scenarios that don't exist, and i'll keep pointing out the obvious over and over and over again. you wanna talk on your terms? here's the same thing presented in hypothetical form as you prefer... she demands that every man she dates do penance for whatever she didn't like about her ex, while keeping multiple single male friends around to do the same thing she's complaining about with. every man she dates responds how? a) he refuses her and walks away, she stays single forever b) he accepts and 'yes dears' everything she says he should do forever c) he says whatever she wants to hear to get laid which one do you think is more likely? i have no doubt that she wants the answer to be B, and i have no doubt that you want the answer to be A, but you are not dealing with reality and neither is she. options A and B do not matter because they're not going to happen. C is going to happen about 99 times out of 100. therefore, the point i made above stands. she can say what she wants til she's blue in the face, but it doesn't matter because she isn't going to get it. when she grows out of her selfishness and starts expecting of people what they in turn expect of her, she will probably find a normal happy relationship, but until then she's NOT going to get one nor is she owed one. Edited June 13, 2011 by thatone
callingyouuu Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 You see, now that you've listed out your thoughts all in one post, I find it hard to understand how you can call my scenario contrived while not labeling your own story as a complete fantasy written out of the diary of a very bitter soul. Let me explain. you're trying to justify your point by dreaming up a scenario that doesn't exist. the OP said he didn't care about porn, the girlfriend stated her demands anyways, as a projection of what she didn't like about an ex. Nothing in this thread indicates that this is the order and nature of the conversation. Even the OP said in his second post that the way she presented her demands was not offensive to him. She made a demand. He answered. End of story. immediately after she made the porn demands, she started pushing the boundaries on what he would tolerate with her single male 'friends'. Both of the parts I bolded are completely contrived, made-up amplifiers out of your own imagination. From his description, these don't sound like people she just decided to pick up off the street to bang to see what he would do after she successfully pried porn away from his hands. These are friends who she has hung out with probably BEFORE having ever met him, and he's just uncomfortable with that. his next move IS to hit it and quit it because she's not relationship material. she's not deserving of any respect or honesty, because she hasn't given him any. she demands that he take the blame for something her ex did, and at the same time she engages in the activity that she is condemning. I think you're a bit too determined to see her as a malicious creature sent to do unspeakable harm to the male gender. If you compare my scenario with yours, the only difference is motive. I see her as someone who was highly disturbed by her ex having a constant pool of sperm next to her keyboard. You see her as using it as a bargaining chip in a constant power struggle. You're absolutely entitled to your opinion, but I just wanted to say that I find it absolutely contrived, overstated, and ridiculous. problem is none of you women trying to defend her are doing anything remotely close to that. Absolutely 100% straight male here. just as he has every right to lie to appease her until he gets what he wants. Ugh. And people wonder why women find some men absolutely disgusting. Why must people like you ruin it for the rest of us?!
callingyouuu Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) you wanna talk on your terms? here's the same thing presented in hypothetical form as you prefer... she demands that every man she dates do penance for whatever she didn't like about her ex, while keeping multiple single male friends around to do the same thing she's complaining about with. every man she dates responds how? a) he refuses her and walks away, she stays single forever b) he accepts and 'yes dears' everything she says he should do forever c) he says whatever she wants to hear to get laid which one do you think is more likely? i have no doubt that she wants the answer to be B, and i have no doubt that you want the answer to be A, but you are not dealing with reality and neither is she. options A and B do not matter because they're not going to happen. C is going to happen about 99 times out of 100. therefore, the point i made above stands. she can say what she wants til she's blue in the face, but it doesn't matter because she isn't going to get it. when she grows out of her selfishness and starts expecting of people what they in turn expect of her, she will probably find a normal happy relationship, but until then she's NOT going to get one nor is she owed one. You added this to your post after you finished, so gotta add a little postscript: I'm starting to see that our main point of contention is whether these are connected events. My opinion: they are not. Your opinion: she's doing it to have her cake and eat it, too. If you are correct in assuming her malevolence, than I agree with everything you just said. There are women (and men) out there who are like that, and I would treat them very similarly. I still stand by what I said before in that there is nothing in the thread that assumes she falls under that category. Hence, by following your advice, I think he's running the risk of hurting someone for no reason other than because she doesn't like her boyfriend watching porn. Edited June 13, 2011 by callingyouuu didn't want to be sexist, so I added the "men" part
Els Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 She's giving him an ultimatum. It's completely unfair. A relationship is supposed to be an equal partnership. What is she giving up or is now prevented from doing? No one's twisting his arm. She told him right at the beginning and he could have just declined the relationship. It's not like she gave him an ultimatum after they had 2 kids and a house payment. It's no one's fault but his own if he is unhappy with what he'd known all along. But he isn't unhappy. He doesn't even like it. The responses from a vast majority of men boggle me. Can't you guys look past what YOU would do in such a situation to actually read the OP? He said 'no skin off my back'. Why the hell would he want to dump the girl over something that doesn't bother him? Unless he's not being completely honest, of course. OP - I wouldn't do any 'equating'. Whether or not male friends are similar to porn completely differs based on the individual. If you dislike her going out alone with a male friend, just tell her so.
shadowofman Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 Ah, but what is not appearant. Does the OP truely care if his gf is hanging out with men? Or is he just pointing our a hypocracy. Should he tell her he is not ok with her habit, even if he might not mind her habit, just because the hypocracy bothers him. I have found that this train of thought is ultimately destructive.
thatone Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) Ugh. And people wonder why women find some men absolutely disgusting. Why must people like you ruin it for the rest of us?! you're ruining it for US. even the straw man is a tactic of delusional women. every time you give a control freak woman the time of day, you encourage her to do the same thing to the next poor bastard who asks for her phone number. and if emulating the thoughts of women on this forum is your game you should really work on hiding it better, that last sentence is a dead giveaway. speaking of that, i hate to shake your foundation a bit, but i'll let you in on a little secret. you can't just recycle what such women say, because a good majority of it is bullsh*t. women are not disgusted by men, else we would be extinct. and no, really, i'm not in any way bitter. nor am i unhappy with the woman i'm currently dating, and by virtue of that nor do i care what is going on with any other woman. i'm just pointing out facts that the "poor defenseless indignant independent helpless empowered and not in any way self contradictory" woman argument never seem to recognize. Edited June 13, 2011 by thatone
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