Need

[Os137]

Hi, my name is Jason and im new to the forum. I wish i could make this post quick but there is to much to really sum up. Early warning, im posting from an iphone so there will most likely be many mistakes in spelling:) ill start by giving some background information about my relationship. My wife and i met almost 4 years ago, we were both coming out of horrible marriages, but were so deeply in love with each other that those marriages didnt really seem to hinder us. You could have described our relationship as fairy tale story book romance to say the least. My ex wife, as well as her ex husband tried to come between us as much as possible for the first year to the first two years we were together, but we prevailed head strong. I dont want to mislead anyone, the stress from our previous partners (mainly my ex wife) definatly took its toll on us. I have two boys from my previois marriage and she has two girls, all of which are great kids. My ed wife used my sons at every chance to try and drive a wedge between my wife and i, i wont get into those details because it would most likely take all day.... So lets just say she (my ex wife) pushed me to my wits end. I unfortunately took a lot of my anger out on my wife with my attitude, something i regret even still. We have had our share of massive ups, and equally massive downs, but for the largest part we have always been happy ( or so i thought.) well, march 28, 2011 i found out my wife had been texting another man, and sending somewhat lude pictures to him. At first she told me it was just friendly texting, and she had sent him a picture of her face, and one in a bikini she had taken on our honey moon back in april 2010. That hurt, but not nearly as much as how much i later found out. Then it became she had sent him three pictures, her face, one of her stomach( she has geat abs:) and on of uer in the yard from a distance... Which again was only partial truth. I then decided to look at the phone logs, and to my horror i found out she had been texting him almost constantly since jan 25 2011. Also sending him countless multi media messages ( messages with pics or videos) when i confronted her with this she tried to tell me those records were wrong... But ofcourse i didn buy that for a second. I started digging deeper.. Found out she had sent him a picture of her after she had got out of the shower, focused mostly on her butt, but she was completely nude in the picture, with the exception she was covering her nipple with her fingers (pic was taken from kind of a side/back angle) she had alsoadmitted to sending him a few ab shots where she was in her bra, and a video of herself in her bra in the mirror grabbing her breast. Just when i thought things couldnt get worse, i got her to admit to me ( only after telling her i had hacked her iphone back ups and got the messages, which i was only able to get a handful of them) that she had been role playing with him through text. She says she would always stop the role playing before it would get to sexual, and swears she never physically cheated on me, and never met up with this guy out side of work... Which btw, we work with this guy. But i just dont believe her.... What guy is gonna text with someone for that amount of time, only to get partial role playing with a woman who wont finish the scenerios every time?? Also, everytime i would find out something new from investigating she would get angry with me, threaten divorce, and has even went as far as to say "she would have my ass thrown in jail for invading her privacy" since when is getting the details to your wifes affair a private matter??? She swore through all this she was still in love with me and hat she never had feelings for this guy, and that she never found him remotely attractive. But wait, theres more... Just a couple of nights ago i found out she had actually been heavily text 4 guys!!! She said she only sent lude pictures to 2 of them, but i seriously doubt that. 3 of the guys she was texting were much younger than us( shes 30) one of them was i think 19, one was 18 the other i believe was 21. She began texting and sending pictures to the other guy whom she says recieved lude pictures a month before the first guy i told you guys about, which was a round jan 25 2011, which was her birthday. So to clarify, the young guy started either in dec 2010, or first of jan 2011. The second guy, which is the first guy i told you about she started with jan 25 2011. The other two guys were being talked to since jan, and she says she never sent them lude photos, but said they sent some to her( i saw a pic from one of those guys in her email where she had saved it, but says her friend saved it... From my wifes phone... Sending it to my wifes email... Yeah) long story short, she was texting dirty to two of them for sure, and sending dirty pics to two of them for sure. She says they rid most of the dirty talk and she just kinda blew them off and laughed, but what guy with ego in tact is going to talk like that with a girl who isnt talking that way back? When i ask her what type of things she said to these guys she always says she cant remember, but it was nothing ever dirty, and i would believe that if she didnt have a mind like a steel trap... She remembers everything always except this. Through all this i have tried to be there for her even though the wrong was done to me. She has since ceased all texting, i have checked the phone logs to make sure... But we are still having a great deal of problems. Last night i told her i wasnt an idiot and i didnt appreciate being treated like one with her telling me she cant remember how she talked to them and what other pictures she sent... But we still went to bed holding each other. This morning i got up with all the kids, went upstairs and asked her to come down with us and she basicly jumped down my throat hollering and basiclly being an ******* to me saying she wanted to sleep... I wanted to sleep too, but we have kids in this house who benefit from both parents, not just one. I dont know what to do, i dont know how much she is still lying to me and i honestly am not certain she hasnt physically cheated on me.... I know i still love her with everything i am, shes my soul mate, a gift straight from the hands of god, and she says she feels the same... But things are getting worse and i know she continues to lye to me about it, not to mention tells me to get over it... Please help, any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank all of you for your time and support in this, and really, thank you for just listening, as i have not spoke a word of this to anyone but my wife.

[Ashkayi]

I'm not sure what to really say to this. It seems that the both of you have went through a lot in your relationship which ultimately turned into this. If shes willing to make things work with you and make things better, dont you think she deserves the benefit of the doubt? She is telling you she hasnt physically cheated on you? Maybe this was just a way of her expressing herself through text to people with out crossing the line. Dont get it twisted it was still crossing the line and she should have talked toyou and came to you before doing something like this. Is your marriage worth fixing? Do you think she'd do it again? Its up to you to make the choice if shes worth it and if you think shes being legit in saying she'd never do it again, then love her and do what you can to make it work after all it is marriage and it isnt to be taken lightly.. Id say that if she loves you like you say and you love her, and youve both dealt with the hectic beginning shes worth keeping. Good luck to you and best wishes, and God bless.

[robf1971]

Maybe this was just a way of her expressing herself through text to people with out crossing the line.

 

Hmm, I bet his wifey isn't telling him the full truth

[Os137]

Hmm, I bet his wifey isn't telling him the full truth

I dont think she is either... just doesnt make sense, and she has already showed she has the capacity to lie to protect her own interest....

[wrongedwife]

That sounds like what my husband did (though he was only having an affair with one woman). He lied to me the whole time we were "working on our marriage" about how much contact he continued to have with her. I found out after we split that he even had a dirty weekend away with her but told me he was visiting his mother! He continually got mad at me for checking on him, and going through phone records. He never really apologized, and at one point even made up an excuse to get back in touch with her! All of this I stupidly put up with because I loved him and wanted to be with him forever, even though my gut was telling me he was lying and to get out!

 

I think you know in your gut if she is telling you the truth. I know what it feels like to love someone so much you want to believe them, but you have to listen to your gut feeling on this. Remember there is no smoke without fire. If she can't acknowledge the hurt you are feeling (telling you to get over it) she doesn't think what she did was wrong! And it was wrong.

 

But it is ultimately your decision. You should seek marriage counseling to work n your issues as it won't go away on it's own. And talk to friends and family, it really does help.

[Downtown]

Jason, welcome to the LoveShack forum. I'm so sorry to hear you are having such painful troubles so early in your second marriage. To assess whether marriage counseling might help, it is important to learn whether your W has strong traits of a personality disorder (PD). If so, the problem has been firmly entrenched since age 3 or 4 and will be highly resistant to any improvement -- and MC likely will be useless until the PD is addressed in individual counseling by a clinical psychologist. Although there are excellent treatment programs available for PDs, the problem is that it is rare for a person suffering from a PD to be willing to seek therapy, much less remain in it for the years required to make a noticeable difference in the dysfunctional behavior.

 

I therefore suggest that you try to persuade your W to go to therapy to be evaluated. Even if she agrees to do that, however, I also suggest you read about some of the PDs to learn how to spot the red flags (i.e., the strong traits associated with PDs). This is important for several reasons. First, high functioning PD sufferers usually do not want to seek treatment so, if your W has strong PD traits, there is a good chance she will not agree to keep seeing the therapist.

 

Second, even if she stays in therapy, she may decide to mask her symptoms, which is easy to do when meeting once a week for only 50 minutes. Third, even if she does reveal all her symptoms to the therapist, he likely won't tell her -- much less you -- if she has strong traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) -- telling her would mean she almost certainly would quit therapy and, even if she doesn't quit, it likely would mean that insurance would not cover the treatments.

 

Significantly, the dysfunctional symptoms you've already seen -- i.e., the lying, the child-like refusal to accept responsibility for her own actions, and the lack of impulse control -- are a few of the traits of BPD. Yet, if she really does have strong BPD traits, you should have started seeing many other red flags too. And you should have started seeing them as soon as the six-month infatuation period ended. I therefore suggest you read my description of BPD traits in GreenEyedRebel's thread to see if most of them sound familiar. My four posts there start at http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3398735#post3398735.

 

Please keep in mind, Jason, that BPD traits are only behavioral symptoms, not an identifiable disease. Because they are only a set of symptoms, everyone occasionally exhibits all nine of the BPD traits. They become a problem (undermining LTRs) only when they are stronger than normal. When that occurs, they are easy to spot because there is nothing subtle about verbal abuse, jealousy, black-white thinking, constant blaming, lack of impulse control, low self esteem, and refusal to accept responsibility for one's own actions.

You could have described our relationship as fairy tale story book romance to say the least.... shes my soul mate.

You two may be a very good match for one another, especially if your W does not have strong PD traits. Yet, your feeling that she "is a soul mate" does not rule out a PD like BPD. Indeed, that is exactly how the nonBPD partners feel when becoming infatuated with a BPDer (person having strong BPD traits). Because a BPDer has a fragile sense of who she is, she tends to emulate the personality of any new person she becomes interested in -- and thus will tend to behave differently around different people. When she becomes infatuated with a man, she pulls out all the stops and adopts all the good aspects of his personality. This process is so perfectly done that it is called "mirroring." The result is that both the BPDer and the partner are convinced they have met their "soul mate."

We have had our share of massive ups, and equally massive downs.

What does this refer to specifically? I ask because one of the hallmarks of BPD traits is a push-you-away and pull-you-back behavior that cycles over and over again. Because a BPDer feels suffocated and engulfed from intimacy, she will push you away -- by creating an argument over nothing -- to get breathing space. Yet, as you back off, within a few hours or days she will start fearing abandonment -- and then will start reeling you back in with sweetness and caring.

Also, every time i would find out something new from investigating she would get angry with me, threaten divorce, and has even went as far as to say "she would have my ass thrown in jail for invading her privacy."

You are describing repeated behavior in which she wrongs you and then has the unmitigated gall to get angry with you for your objecting to it. You are also describing verbal abuse and bullying (i.e., having your "ass thrown in jail) to get her way. This outrageous behavior -- which is so typical of four year olds -- is another hallmark of having strong BPD traits. If your W is already threatening to have you arrested only a few years into your marriage, she may make good on that threat eventually.

 

My exW, for example, is a BPDer who decided to leave me after 15 years. To ensure that she could remain in my home throughout the divorce period, she had me arrested and thrown in jail for "brutalizing her." What she did was to chase me from room to room in a temper tantrum until I was holed up in a bedroom, where she proceeded to destroy the door. When I pushed her away from the door, she stumbled backward and fell down -- my shoving her constituted a misdemeanor (never mind that, while I was allegedly "brutalizing her," my grand daughter and sister-in-law were only 20 feet away behind another door). Because I was arrested early on a Saturday morning, I was in jail for nearly 3 days before I had a chance to go before a judge to tell my story. Hence, if you decide to remain with your W, Jason, I suggest you be especially careful around her on weekends.

Edited June 14, 2011 by Downtown

[Justice75]

From my experience there is always two sides to every story. If she loves you a much as she says she wouldn't have done this but it could have been worse in my opinion. She is still trying to make it work and people make mistakes. I don't think if this relationship was a "fairytale" kind of thing this would have never happened. I understand your hurt but marriage is about love and understanding and fogiveness. If she didn't want you she wouldn't be with you IMO. Your W probably has some issues with in your marriage that wasn't being met and she tested the waters. It happens but I don't feel she's lying to you and I don't feel like she's cheated. I'm my experience once someone does this they leave. Has she left you? Is she trying to make thing better and reassuring you. It's typical for people to point the finger but I'm pretty sure you have faults too and you have issues that you should address as well. Marriage is work and a commitment and it's not suppose to just be given up on and taken for granted. People should appreciate each other and I feel like she wasn't given that. From what you've said she's a good person she just made a mistake. If you don't want the marriage anymore and you can't trust her then counseling would be beneficial for the both of you. Not just her. I've been through it I've been down that painful road of betrayal and my husband and I are stronger than ever because we have God in our life and a new beginning. Best of luck to you both. I can sense that you are gonna need it.