FightClub Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 http://blogs.psychcentral.com/always-learning/2010/04/love-triangles-affairs-and-others/ I stumbled upon this blog/article that I thought was kind of interesting. I remember being in the midst of things and never quite thought of our interactions, discussions, etc was helping to stabilize things at home for them or that I became apart of a triangle. Of course, time has a way of helping you see things with clarity. In retrospect, it would explain a few things looking back. Anyone else have any input or can we say as a general rule of thumb this is tends to be a constant in affairs? -FC
silktricks Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 I would agree that it holds true in my case, and probably many more than just mine . I don't think it's true in all cases, though, as I think that sometimes (the exit affair, for example) the goal is not to stabilize, but rather to further de-stabilize the primary relationship, and therefore more easily end it.
John Michael Kane Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 I would agree that it holds true in my case, and probably many more than just mine . I don't think it's true in all cases, though, as I think that sometimes (the exit affair, for example) the goal is not to stabilize, but rather to further de-stabilize the primary relationship, and therefore more easily end it. Having an exit affair is not to more easily end an relationship.
donnamaybe Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 Hmmm... So the basic premise seems to be that the purpose could be just to let the cheater have an outlet for the stressors at home, and they choose someone they wouldn't want to have a full time R with so as not to threaten the M. No wonder some of these A's last for many, many years where the AP settles for the position they've been chosen for.
Spark1111 Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 http://blogs.psychcentral.com/always-learning/2010/04/love-triangles-affairs-and-others/ I stumbled upon this blog/article that I thought was kind of interesting. I remember being in the midst of things and never quite thought of our interactions, discussions, etc was helping to stabilize things at home for them or that I became apart of a triangle. Of course, time has a way of helping you see things with clarity. In retrospect, it would explain a few things looking back. Anyone else have any input or can we say as a general rule of thumb this is tends to be a constant in affairs? -FC I think it is a very interesting concept. So if the MP is seeking a stabilizer, than they are conciously of subconciously choosing a person who will not rock the boat, inform the spouse, blow their cover. They are seeking someone who will accept the status quo, for WHATEVER reason provided by the MAP, for as long as possible. Interesting. How many affairs break apart, either upon discovery by the BS or an ultimatum given by the OW/OM? Plenty.
betterdeal Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 I think people are quite complex and any relationship between two people is an intricate thing. It's a bit like trying to juggle: the more balls you add, the harder it gets to do right (that all sounds a bit rude to me, but I hope you get the point). Triangles happen all over the place, between parents and a child, between colleagues, lovers, friends - wherever there are three or more people. I *suppose* they can work and three be company and *not* be a crowd. But I also *suppose* you can use Bing as your search engine. I mean, it *is* possible, and I'm sure it works for *some* people, but it's not *usual*, is it?
LilyBart Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 Interesting. How many affairs break apart, either upon discovery by the BS or an ultimatum given by the OW/OM? Plenty. Ditto on the interesting. And how many MARRIAGES break apart, either upon discovery by the BS or an ultimatum given by the OW/OM? How many SECOND MARRIAGES are based off of "prior relationships"? Plenty.
Loni Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 An exit affair is most typically a way of not having to end a primary relationship. My opinion is that those who have exit affairs are hoping the primary partner is so pissed off that they end it so that the one wanting out doesn't have to. There are many spouses out there going WTH? I cheated and he/she still didn't end it? It backfires when a spouse wants to forgive.
carrie999 Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 http://blogs.psychcentral.com/always-learning/2010/04/love-triangles-affairs-and-others/ I stumbled upon this blog/article that I thought was kind of interesting. I remember being in the midst of things and never quite thought of our interactions, discussions, etc was helping to stabilize things at home for them or that I became apart of a triangle. Of course, time has a way of helping you see things with clarity. -FC Very interesting article! I've actually thought about the triangle dynamic in affairs from a structural standpoint. I think it really does relate to most affairs at some specific point in time, and more so to long-term affairs. Since my affair began, I've been learning as much as I can about affair dynamics and trying to analyze mine. It started so "innocently" and without intention on either of our parts, so I was sure it wouldn't turn into an affair. When it did and it was clear that we were in love, I thought it was a split-self affair. At that point there were no plans for a future or him leaving. I was making him happy and he was happier at home as a result. The triangle dynamic seems apt there. Fast-forward through months of internal drama and soul-searching, and he decided his marriage is over with or without me waiting, or even a possibility on the horizon. If affairs can shift, it's an exit affair now. Even through the "exit affair" stage, the triangle dynamic is evoked from time to time. I've served as both a stabilizing and de-stabilizing factor. It's interesting to look at each stage of the affair using this idea as a guidepost.
Anna101 Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 Very interesting! I think the answer is somewhere in the middle for most. I think more commonly it's just an attempt to get what is missing in the first r/ship and therefore not have to disrupt life even more by leaving it. I don't think it's necessarily to SAVE the primary r/ship because of how ongoing and risky an affair is.
seren Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 An exit affair always seems so cowardly, if someone is unhappy just bloody leave, why someone needs to use another to prompt or force a D Day amd hope that the BS will throw them to the kerb seems pretty twisted IMO. If we looked at all points of the triangle as parts of a relationship, isn't D Day the time when the person exiting, is the one that is the secondary relationship? I don't mean that in a BS has the primary role just for fact of marriage, but if the WS has the opportunity to exit, why do so many stay? In all triage relationships where deciet underpins it, the one with a foot in both camps is the primary player. The others, IMO, are just jerking around while they pull the strings. I can see that compartmentalising enables the WS to escape and if they are unhappy in their marriage, that an A can enable them to not have to face that they need to sort things out, one way or the other. Wouldn't work for me as I don't knowingly share the person I love, not many BS do, hence D Days. If AP's did the same early on, then it would sure sort things out far more satisfactorily. However, I also think that for a long term A the stress of juggling and keeping all parties happy must be tiring and stressful in itself. What's the answer then? an AOP? Of course there will be A's where the WS falls in love and I think most of those leave very early into the A as keeping up that facade needed to fool a BS cannot be easy if you love another. Seems to me like the only one really aware of what's what is the WS, no matter how loud we all shout that we (general) matter more, or that the other relationship means nothing. D Day is the great leveller.
Silly_Girl Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 An exit affair is most typically a way of not having to end a primary relationship. My opinion is that those who have exit affairs are hoping the primary partner is so pissed off that they end it so that the one wanting out doesn't have to. There are many spouses out there going WTH? I cheated and he/she still didn't end it? It backfires when a spouse wants to forgive. It seems easy... Confess and all is sorted. I think I know someone who was shocked and thrown by the attitude from the BS.
Breezy Trousers Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 http://blogs.psychcentral.com/always-learning/2010/04/love-triangles-affairs-and-others/ I stumbled upon this blog/article that I thought was kind of interesting. I remember being in the midst of things and never quite thought of our interactions, discussions, etc was helping to stabilize things at home for them or that I became apart of a triangle. Of course, time has a way of helping you see things with clarity. In retrospect, it would explain a few things looking back. Anyone else have any input or can we say as a general rule of thumb this is tends to be a constant in affairs? -FC Yep! I've always said that most OW help MM stay in marriages. Lots of people can't handle genuine intimacy (the more highly narcissistic the AP, the more likely this is). Others are bored and feel entitled to dabble but don't want to leave a stable, fairly happy life situation. Having a triangle is the perfect remedy for that scenario. Not speaking for everyone here, obviously, but only from my life experience -- I know of a few MM who have had affairs (including my husband), and it seems they chose "down" for OW. Usually the guys pick women who are work subordinates or are, in some fashion, economically and/or socially subordinate in status .... not equals in life situation and usually not any more attractive than the spouse -- in fact, sometimes obviously less attractive. I always wondered if this was because MM believe they are are more likely to get a woman lower in status & esteem to make herself sexually available to him --- but maybe there's an unconscious reason for that, as suggested in the article. In my own experience, I was subordinate in MM's world and not at all the sort of woman who would inspire lust with the way I dressed, etc. This is why MM's intensity /attention flattered me so much at first. It took me a while to push away the clouds of love fog & realize MM was pursuing me because he perceived me to be an easy mark because I was not equal to him. He quickly targeted another subordinate after I pulled away. Short of "accidentally" getting pregnant and pitching a MM's marriage & social status into crisis (which I've also seen) ..... or being significantly younger (hot!) ........ "subordinates" are not usually viable as MP, unless the MM's family unit itself is in chaos. Assuming the family is stable, there's usually too much ensuing loss of religious status, family status, financial status for MM to seriously consider leaving for someone who has a less viable life situation. ** And perhaps that's the point. (** This a generalization. There will always be exceptions, of course!)
Silly_Girl Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 My presence in his life improved their relationship no end. So when he told me it was hard to tell her 'now' of his plans, because things were better for her, I went off like a box of fireworks on a bonfire!! I did understand what he meant in that the news was far more unexpected. Even his parents, on their annual visit, had said he seemed happier than he had been for years and they hoped things had 'finally settled down' for him and his wife. They know the reason now for the change. As the OW then I think that was possibly the hardest and most complex part of the whole thing. Recognising how their relationship had changed, eased. I was unhappy at his wife being left in the dark (whether he was leaving or not, his moving out had been discussed between them and I felt strongly she ought to know the truth). The better things were at home (and the less time he spent there) the easier it was for him to push taking action to one side. It took him ages longer than me to see how much of the improvement was due to us. Although NC helped with that!
Silly_Girl Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 'Affairing down'? I hear a lot of BSs claim that.
betterdeal Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 (edited) Then there's always the farmyard factor. Lots of people like to f*ck, like farmyard animals, and that's why they do it. Contrary to most murder mysteries, many upper class couples who indulge in farmyard antics with the lower orders do so with implicit or explicit agreement with each other, so long as the f*ck buddy isn't a social equal or blabber mouth, or a threat to the stability of the family in other words. If they become a threat ( blackmail ) then swift action is taking to ruin their name so that their word means nothing. The successful indoctrination of morals and the idea of sin into the less educated, poorer classes gives another method of control over them. But really, it's all about the kids. Many men couldn't give a rat's ass about a woman's emotional bonding to some chump, so long as her knickers stay on. Most women, OTOH, are most offended by men "connecting" with another woman, whilst they seem nonplussed by his sexual antics. Makes sense: prior to the past 50 years or so, pregnancy wasn't a controlled decision, DNA testing and child support inexistent. People want to raise their own children. Not all their children either, just the ones that fit into their social world. But times have changed. Family planning, DNA testing and child support exist. Family planning has made life more equal between the sexes and between the classes. I've been used as a toyboy by a sexually liberated woman (I was in my 20s, she in her 40s) whilst she and her partner were on different continents, and it was great. The one trouble I have these days is that most sexually liberal women appear to have not given much on the right of men to form emotional bonds with other women. One or two I know have, and they have stable, single parent backgrounds, successful careers, houses paid for, good social networks consisting of men and women. They aren't as afraid of losing their current partner to someone else, because they have most everything they need from a partner, from many people. So, erm, there's more than one way to skin a cat. Oh, and there's biological clocks to throw in too. Many women get funny about at around the age of 30 (for no good reason IMO) and then again at 40, if they want children, in which case they pull out all the stops to get some spunk from someone they see as good genetically. As a man, it means nothing to me, other than to avoid certain women when they're 40 or younger, and are looking for a sperm donor, because DNA testing and child support exist and, frankly, I'm selective about who I want to raise children with. Edited June 10, 2011 by betterdeal
Breezy Trousers Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 'Affairing down'? I hear a lot of BSs claim that. Not always, but certainly it's common. Just look at the headlines -- Arnold & Maria, for example. It's not hard to find examples of this.
Silly_Girl Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 Not always, but certainly it's common. Just look at the headlines -- Arnold & Maria, for example. It's not hard to find examples of this. I've never read a single word on that affair outside of the two forums I use. And then I've not read the threads
crazycatlady Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 Oddly enough H and I were talking about this last night. And I realized....he couldn't have picked a more impossible to be with OW then he did. By the impossible to be with I mean there was no way they really could go into the light of day with their relationship. And he said that was part of the appeal of the relationship with her. It both was safe....and it feed his "poor me my life sucks and nothing is going right for me" delusion at the time. While he never vilified me, he did make it sound like the world was out to get him. And I had no sympathy for him, or at least not enough....she on the other hand, was oddly exactly like him in that aspect.
Anna101 Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 Just a thought, when my partner separated from his wife, he was in counselling. The psych told him that she felt he ENJOYED being depressed and having something 'wrong' and that he coped better with sadness than he did with happiness. He felt more comfortable being unhappy with his life than if it was full of joy. I wonder if this is more common than we think and so the affair is a way to continue this status quo of something being always perpetually 'wrong'. In our case, the affair did nothing to stabilize their marriage as he was physically faithful to me and in her words later on, this was one of the things that hurt her most. He also 'affaired equal', heh....me and her are pretty similar in some ways, but I am significantly different when it comes to their main 'issue'.
Spark1111 Posted June 11, 2011 Posted June 11, 2011 Ditto on the interesting. And how many MARRIAGES break apart, either upon discovery by the BS or an ultimatum given by the OW/OM? How many SECOND MARRIAGES are based off of "prior relationships"? Plenty. That's true. But that is not what the article is about. It's about choosing an affair partner as a stabilizer to the marriage and the stressors the MAP is going through. Did you read it? Or did you feel attacked by what I wrote and had to respond LIlybart? Read the article and then respond.
Spark1111 Posted June 11, 2011 Posted June 11, 2011 Just a thought, when my partner separated from his wife, he was in counselling. The psych told him that she felt he ENJOYED being depressed and having something 'wrong' and that he coped better with sadness than he did with happiness. He felt more comfortable being unhappy with his life than if it was full of joy. I wonder if this is more common than we think and so the affair is a way to continue this status quo of something being always perpetually 'wrong'. In our case, the affair did nothing to stabilize their marriage as he was physically faithful to me and in her words later on, this was one of the things that hurt her most. He also 'affaired equal', heh....me and her are pretty similar in some ways, but I am significantly different when it comes to their main 'issue'. I think he had a brilliant therapist and I hope he still attends.
MissBee Posted June 11, 2011 Posted June 11, 2011 This reminds me of something that was said in the documentary show Sister Wives, which is about a polygamist family. The 4 wives and husband agreed that additional women strengthened the marriage and that "If you have a problem with one wife, get another, and it works it out" (paraphrasing). The second wife I believe, was saying that she had never envisioned being in a regular marriage and that she wanted to be a second wife and part of a plural marriage as she has people to share the weight of the marriage with and she would not want to have to take care of the husband's needs alone. The show started with 3 wives and the husband married another and the 3 wives were excited (although some issues of jealousy were worked out) stating that him taking on a 4th wife would strengthen their individual relationships with him. Based on that scenario, while I don't really get it, I can see how for some people, they do see affairs or plurality as a stabilizer in a marriage. Although admittedly, open plurality is more understandable as a stabilizing force if all are in agreement rather than the underhanded kind.
pureinheart Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 http://blogs.psychcentral.com/always-learning/2010/04/love-triangles-affairs-and-others/ I stumbled upon this blog/article that I thought was kind of interesting. I remember being in the midst of things and never quite thought of our interactions, discussions, etc was helping to stabilize things at home for them or that I became apart of a triangle. Of course, time has a way of helping you see things with clarity. In retrospect, it would explain a few things looking back. Anyone else have any input or can we say as a general rule of thumb this is tends to be a constant in affairs? -FC Hi FC, in my neck of the woods, the general rule of thumb was that the AP's eventually got together.
Breezy Trousers Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 This reminds me of something that was said in the documentary show Sister Wives, which is about a polygamist family. The 4 wives and husband agreed that additional women strengthened the marriage and that "If you have a problem with one wife, get another, and it works it out" (paraphrasing). The second wife I believe, was saying that she had never envisioned being in a regular marriage and that she wanted to be a second wife and part of a plural marriage as she has people to share the weight of the marriage with and she would not want to have to take care of the husband's needs alone. The show started with 3 wives and the husband married another and the 3 wives were excited (although some issues of jealousy were worked out) stating that him taking on a 4th wife would strengthen their individual relationships with him. Based on that scenario, while I don't really get it, I can see how for some people, they do see affairs or plurality as a stabilizer in a marriage. Although admittedly, open plurality is more understandable as a stabilizing force if all are in agreement rather than the underhanded kind. Good point. Polyamory works as well as monogamy in long term marriages, according to decades of research. I know of one couple who practice polyamory and are deeply connected (it appears, anyway). She has had intimate relationships, and he has, too. They went through lots of ups & downs, as you can imagine, but it ended up bringing them very close together. It's interesting that practicing polyamory has becoming less interesting to them as they've grown closer over the years. It's still an option for both partners, though.
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