Bad conscience... Is this normal?

[snug.bunny]

It sounds like they were dating casually, more so based on a desire for casual dating by said guy ("He just got out of a 4-year-relationship when we met. He said he didn't think it was fair to me to start a new relationship with his issues still mostly unresolved. I waited around for two months, got into it way too deep, he was sweet, loving, caring. But also very busy, we didn't see each other often, We haven't seen each other in almost three weeks now. When we had talked about where things could take us, he said would want a relationship with me down the road, he said he felt we clicked and that he thought the two of us would work very well. But over the two months these for me turned out to be just pretty words, though he kept making plans for our future.").

I don't necessarily agree with OP's actions with regards to the second guy, and I think things could have been handled better, but that's the thing when two people are "casually dating", it can lead to unrealistic expectations, a person feeling lead on, and/or a lot of holes.

[Dan The Stud]

If you want to go NC, it is your responsibility to let the other person know. This applies to both men and women.

 

However, Elisa89's behavior is actually quite common, unfortunately. I don't believe it's the right way to handle situations like this, but it is now the norm.

 

So, I've accepted when women pull this type of crap on me. I just shrug and be on my way. But there are consequences for women to set the bar so low that this has become the generally accepted behavior:

 

1) Even though I accept it, I still lose respect for them anyway.

2) I expect all women to behave this way by default, which makes "not putting all of your eggs in one basket" even more important. So ladies, stop complaining about men multidating, we have to.

3) If it's okay for women to behave this way, then it's okay for me to behave this way too. I keep this one in my back pocket. When I need it, I'll pull it out. Don't complain when I do.

 

if she pulls this just one up her. thats what i do though i dont usually have this problem of girls leaving me. i usually leave them for someone hotter

[Red Arremer]

if she pulls this just one up her. thats what i do though i dont usually have this problem of girls leaving me. i usually leave them for someone hotter

 

cool gimmick bro, i give you a b- for effort

[Dan The Stud]

cool gimmick bro, i give you a b- for effort

 

it works though i hardly ever have to use it since chicks dig me. ill give myself an a+ and give you a c- for effort.

[alethean]

cool gimmick bro, i give you a b- for effort

 

Really? You grade a lot easier than I would. I'd give a D+. C- at best.

[stepka]

It sounds like they were dating casually, more so based on a desire for casual dating by said guy ("He just got out of a 4-year-relationship when we met. He said he didn't think it was fair to me to start a new relationship with his issues still mostly unresolved. I waited around for two months, got into it way too deep, he was sweet, loving, caring. But also very busy, we didn't see each other often, We haven't seen each other in almost three weeks now. When we had talked about where things could take us, he said would want a relationship with me down the road, he said he felt we clicked and that he thought the two of us would work very well. But over the two months these for me turned out to be just pretty words, though he kept making plans for our future.").

I don't necessarily agree with OP's actions with regards to the second guy, and I think things could have been handled better, but that's the thing when two people are "casually dating", it can lead to unrealistic expectations, a person feeling lead on, and/or a lot of holes.

 

Yeah, that was my feeling too. So, no relationship, no communication really, maybe just a FWB type arrangement? If so, she doesn't owe him a thing, and it's possible that she misread the brother's reaction or that he misread the situation and thought there was a relationship when there wasn't. Am I right OP?

[Dan The Stud]

Yeah, that was my feeling too. So, no relationship, no communication really, maybe just a FWB type arrangement? If so, she doesn't owe him a thing, and it's possible that she misread the brother's reaction or that he misread the situation and thought there was a relationship when there wasn't. Am I right OP?

 

loser girls defens loser girl

[Elisa89]

Elisa, I'm a little unclear about whether you two were ever actually in a relationship or whether he kept putting you off. Did he ask you to wait for him? Did he expect you to be exclusive to him? Because if not, I really don't see where you ever owed him an explanation. It sounds to me like he was dangling you on a string so that he'd have someone in place when he gets over his stuff and that's not fair either.

 

And yeah, I'm going through the same thing right now, so I know how that feels. Because when he gets over his divorce and all the fall-out, there's no guarantee that it's me he'll want. I do think it's fair to let him know you'll be dating other people, but not absolutely necessary because he hasn't really consolidated a relationship with you. (if I'm reading this right) If you guys were in a committed relationship, and didn't actually mutually break up, then what you did was wrong.

 

We were not in an actual relationship. And yes he asked me to wait, though he was concerned that it wasn't quite fair to me. As long as he wasn't really ready we were going to just casually date, no physical intimacy involved. Exclusivity is something we never really discussed.

I remember him saying that he knew he couldn't expect me to wait and that if I met a guy in the meanwhile who was ready for a relationship with me, then there would be nothing he could do about it.

 

I will be meeting up with him on Tuesday and tell him where I stand and how I feel about this situation.

[stepka]

We were not in an actual relationship. And yes he asked me to wait, though he was concerned that it wasn't quite fair to me. As long as he wasn't really ready we were going to just casually date, no physical intimacy involved. Exclusivity is something we never really discussed.

I remember him saying that he knew he couldn't expect me to wait and that if I met a guy in the meanwhile who was ready for a relationship with me, then there would be nothing he could do about it.

 

I will be meeting up with him on Tuesday and tell him where I stand and how I feel about this situation.

 

Then you did nothing wrong and I wouldn't let these bitter men bully you around and make you feel bad about it. You probably feel guilty b/c of the look on the brother's face but again, he may have misunderstood the situation or where you two were at in your relationship, but this really is between you and your "bf." Good luck on this--it's hard to know what to do in a situation like this and I'm having a hard time deciding what to do in my case also--it could be another 2 years at least before he's ready to date and in the meantime I'm supposed to do what? And then he could get over it and be off with someone else. I wish he'd waited to contact me after it was all over as this isn't really fair to me and it's not fair to you either. It's like, as long as he continues to call me and text me, I can't think of anyone else but I'm forcing myself to go out and meet new people. If I decide to go out and date someone else, I'll let him know, but you weren't really dating someone else yet, so you did nothing wrong.

[Elisa89]

Then you did nothing wrong and I wouldn't let these bitter men bully you around and make you feel bad about it. You probably feel guilty b/c of the look on the brother's face but again, he may have misunderstood the situation or where you two were at in your relationship, but this really is between you and your "bf."

 

And another reason I feel bad about this, is that I really like the guy a lot. When we were meeting up it felt like a relationship, but it never did when we weren't meeting up. Sometimes I just feel so inferior(like it's in his hands to hurt me) because I agreed to waiting around, then I pulled something like that just to show myself, hey, I could hurt him too if I wanted. That's just such a stupid thing to do.

 

Good to hear there are other people in a situation like this! Good luck to you too. Hope you find the right way for yourself in this situation.

[Dusk1983]

Then you did nothing wrong and I wouldn't let these bitter men bully you around and make you feel bad about it.

 

Complete and utter BS. I don't agree with the 'bitter men' on LS that often but you now look like a woman helping another woman find justifications for some downright shoddy behaviour.

 

This guy was not in a good place to start something so was taking it slow, that much is clear, but that doesn't mean he wasn't interested, and it doesn't mean they weren't genuinely 'something'. Him being cautious, in combination with a genuine reason to cancel a date, is NOT a justification for spending 2 HOURS with a new guy in a club, let alone giving him the digits.

 

Now Elisa has responded to your reassurance that no wrong has been done, that you've been in a similar situation, and lo and behold - bad behaviour fully rationalised, no responsibility taken. Surprise.

 

As for taking responsibility:

 

 

I'm not here to make excuses for myself.

 

I was majorly disappointed

I just felt rejected

I'm seriously hurt

Hurting the people I care for the most is some kind of defense mechanism I have.

I've always had major trust issues

 

 

And a final cherry on top:

 

I will be meeting up with him on Tuesday and tell him where I stand and how I feel about this situation.

 

Good idea. Despite the fact you might have seriously hurt someone already in a vulnerable place, please remember this is still ALL about you and how YOU feel.

[Elisa89]

 

This guy was not in a good place to start something so was taking it slow, that much is clear, but that doesn't mean he wasn't interested, and it doesn't mean they weren't genuinely 'something'. Him being cautious, in combination with a genuine reason to cancel a date, is NOT a justification for spending 2 HOURS with a new guy in a club, let alone giving him the digits.

 

Now Elisa has responded to your reassurance that no wrong has been done, that you've been in a similar situation, and lo and behold - bad behaviour fully rationalised, no responsibility taken. Surprise.

 

I don't get what you're trying to say. I'm trying to understand WHY I'm acting the way I did. And the reason for MY actions are MY feelings whether they're reasonable or not. You critisize that this is all about me, well, because it is. I didn't act this way because someone told me to, I acted this way because I wanted to(at least in that particular moment). There I stand trying to understand what the hell is going on with me that I'm doing something like that and I found an explanation in the way this situation tears me up inside(along with some other reasons I don't think belong here). So yes, bad behaviour rationalized. Does this make it good behaviour? No. But how could I possibly work with this if I didn't analyze it?

[Yookie]

1) He told you he doesn't want a relationship with you.

2) He's not making any effort to see you on a regular basis (3 weeks in between dates).

3) He's cancelling dates without a counter-offer or rescheduling.

 

 

I really don't understand what all the protest is about. He's not your boyfriend. He gave you zero commitment. You owe him nothing.

 

Going forward just be sure to be more open about your intentions when you are discussing relationship issues with a potential boyfriend. If he is not ready for an exclusive relationship that is fine and dandy but be sure to make it clear that you will date others in the meantime.

[stepka]

Complete and utter BS. I don't agree with the 'bitter men' on LS that often but you now look like a woman helping another woman find justifications for some downright shoddy behaviour.

 

This guy was not in a good place to start something so was taking it slow, that much is clear, but that doesn't mean he wasn't interested, and it doesn't mean they weren't genuinely 'something'. Him being cautious, in combination with a genuine reason to cancel a date, is NOT a justification for spending 2 HOURS with a new guy in a club, let alone giving him the digits.

 

1) He told you he doesn't want a relationship with you.

2) He's not making any effort to see you on a regular basis (3 weeks in between dates).

3) He's cancelling dates without a counter-offer or rescheduling.

 

 

I really don't understand what all the protest is about. He's not your boyfriend. He gave you zero commitment. You owe him nothing.

 

Going forward just be sure to be more open about your intentions when you are discussing relationship issues with a potential boyfriend. If he is not ready for an exclusive relationship that is fine and dandy but be sure to make it clear that you will date others in the meantime.

 

Yeah dusk, I'm a real cheatin b*tch ain't I? She owes him nothing. So what he has interest in her? He's not in a position to be in a relationship with her right now. And you know what guys do to the women who "nurse" them back to health? They kick them to the curb when they get feeling better and they go off with someone else who doesn't remind them of the emotional pain they just went through. Meanwhile she's wasted 2 years or more of her life waiting and hoping that he'll notice her someday. You guys think you should be able to "hold" your future gf on the shelf while you go thru your stuff from your last relationship and then get all indignant when she does something to show she's still alive and not kryogenically frozen. And she had a drink with the dude. Big schmeal. I think she should go out on a date with him if he calls.

 

Actually I should thank you b/c you just helped me make up my mind about what I should do. I am not waiting. This is not a relationship and I'm not dead yet. If we should get into a relationship later, I will be faithful to him but not before.

 

But here's the thing--it's going to be hard to tell him that I'm not waiting because we haven't even had the discussion yet. He's just sort of assuming. I think. So dusk1983: how should I approach this do you think?

[heartshaped]

Yeah dusk, I'm a real cheatin b*tch ain't I? She owes him nothing. So what he has interest in her? He's not in a position to be in a relationship with her right now. And you know what guys do to the women who "nurse" them back to health? They kick them to the curb when they get feeling better and they go off with someone else who doesn't remind them of the emotional pain they just went through. Meanwhile she's wasted 2 years or more of her life waiting and hoping that he'll notice her someday. You guys think you should be able to "hold" your future gf on the shelf while you go thru your stuff from your last relationship and then get all indignant when she does something to show she's still alive and not kryogenically frozen. And she had a drink with the dude. Big schmeal. I think she should go out on a date with him if he calls.

 

Actually I should thank you b/c you just helped me make up my mind about what I should do. I am not waiting. This is not a relationship and I'm not dead yet. If we should get into a relationship later, I will be faithful to him but not before.

 

But here's the thing--it's going to be hard to tell him that I'm not waiting because we haven't even had the discussion yet. He's just sort of assuming. I think. So dusk1983: how should I approach this do you think?

 

I think your situation and the OP are totally different. In her case, it's only been two months of casually dating someone. Most people usually date someone for around this time before becoming exclusive. Just because you are casually dating someone doesn't mean you should go NC without informing them, get some other guy's number when you and this person are supposed to be working towards exclusivity, and go on dates with other people.

 

The OP should have talked to this guy now that it's two months in and reevaluated where they both are. If they aren't on the same page, then, she should tell him that she is going to see other people and move on and go NC if she wants. You don't do these things before not because you can't, but because it's bad etiquette and a bit hypocritical to want to be in a relationship with someone and take other guys numbers.

[stepka]

I think your situation and the OP are totally different. In her case, it's only been two months of casually dating someone. Most people usually date someone for around this time before becoming exclusive. Just because you are casually dating someone doesn't mean you should go NC without informing them, get some other guy's number when you and this person are supposed to be working towards exclusivity, and go on dates with other people.

 

The OP should have talked to this guy now that it's two months in and reevaluated where they both are. If they aren't on the same page, then, she should tell him that she is going to see other people and move on and go NC if she wants. You don't do these things before not because you can't, but because it's bad etiquette and a bit hypocritical to want to be in a relationship with someone and take other guys numbers.

 

So what have I missed? If they've been dating for 2 months but it's sometimes 3 weeks between dates, when have they had time to build a relationship? She feels bad because she likes this guy a lot, not because they're exclusive. Nowhere do I see anything she's said that makes it clear that they're exclusive. Besides, she had a nice drink with him--the guys make it sound like they hopped in the bed together.

[Ouroboros]

It sounds like they were dating casually

Not that casually if she knew his brother and he shook his head in disgust at her behavior.

[Ouroboros]

What was it ol' Fritz said? "Conscience is the bite of a dog upon stone - a stupidity."

Amen.

Get over it. Conscience is just a device to keep you corralled in the herd.

Civilization requires cooperation. An everyone out for themselves attitude works against this.

[Elisa89]

Not that casually if she knew his brother and he shook his head in disgust at her behavior.

 

To be fair, I saw his brother once because he dropped the guy off at a place where we were meeting up. I do not know any other family members of his. Though of course I have no idea what he told his brother about me.

[ConfusedGuy28]

I just read the first page, but what amazes me is the following:

 

Here's a guy who seems like he has a good head on his shoulders. Just got out of a FOUR YEAR relationship, meets someone he likes, and is HONEST about the fact that he isn't emotionally ready for a relationship (probably because if he jumped right in, he'd end up transferring his feelings for the other girl onto you).

 

So - he continues to see you, even though he's busy. 2 MONTHS have gone by, and suddenly he's the bad guy because he hasn't given you what you wanted, even though he made himself incredibly clear to you.

 

-----

My question is: you only seem upset because the brother saw you. You're not remorseful for talking to this other guy. You also seem to lack empathy, because as someone already said - if he did that to YOU, all hell would break loose.

 

I say - take this as a learning experience and don't listen to the people that are trying to sugar coat it for you.

 

Leave the 2 month guy alone. LEAVE HIM ALONE. Don't apologize, because you're already done with him. You'll end up sending him mixed messages. LEAVE HIM ALONE

[ConfusedGuy28]

And as far as your "bad behavior rationalized" thing:

 

Here you go:

1) You wanted to be "done" with him because you were going out

2) You went out, got hit on, etc and gave him your #

3) Brother was there and saw you

4) You felt bad

 

Now:

1) Did you know the brother was going to be there? Or know that there was even a slight possibility he would be there?

2) Did you do it to make the guy jealous, so the brother would say something to him to get a reaction out of him?

3) Are you asking us to rationalize your "bad behavior" for you so you have a good excuse for him on Tuesday?

4) Where was your conscious before the brother saw you? Sounds like to me this "tuesday" meetup was already scheduled.

[Elisa89]

And as far as your "bad behavior rationalized" thing:

 

Here you go:

1) You wanted to be "done" with him because you were going out

2) You went out, got hit on, etc and gave him your #

3) Brother was there and saw you

4) You felt bad

 

Now:

1) Did you know the brother was going to be there? Or know that there was even a slight possibility he would be there?

2) Did you do it to make the guy jealous, so the brother would say something to him to get a reaction out of him?

3) Are you asking us to rationalize your "bad behavior" for you so you have a good excuse for him on Tuesday?

4) Where was your conscious before the brother saw you? Sounds like to me this "tuesday" meetup was already scheduled.

 

I'll try to answer your questions the best I can:

 

1. I did not know that his brother would be there but there was a possibility since there are not so many places to party on weekdays and this place offers student's discount that night.

 

2. I did not do it because I wanted his brother to tell him, I only saw that his brother was there when I was about to leave. But I fooled myself thinking that I would not feel so inferior to him if I flirted a bit, as I felt just waiting around didn't particularly put me in a position of strength. Now I know that was stupid.

 

3. No. I will tell him straight forward. I'm planning to describe the situation to him, tell him what I did, say that I feel very bad about it.

 

4. I didn't really think what I did was really that bad. I had a guy buying me a drink and I talked to him about school and my job. Nothing personal. I had no intentions with this guy I talked to. It was just some kind of attention-seeking, confidence-boosting type of thing. It was only when I saw his brother's reaction that I realized that I knew this but that it could be giving very different signals to people who didn't know me well. And that these people would probably interpret that situation very differently.

I scheduled the Tuesday meetup with him after all that happened.

[Ouroboros]

I had a guy buying me a drink and I talked to him about school and my job. Nothing personal. I had no intentions with this guy I talked to. It was just some kind of attention-seeking, confidence-boosting type of thing.

If he accepts this then he is a fool, you will continue to disrespect him with more hijinx, and you will never respect him. You won't respect him until he puts you back on the curb to sell your wares to another gentleman if you ever do at all.

[Elisa89]

If he accepts this then he is a fool, you will continue to disrespect him with more hijinx, and you will never respect him. You won't respect him until he puts you back on the curb to sell your wares to another gentleman if you ever do at all.

 

 

Wow. Come on, I already know I could have handled this situation a lot better.

But you're talking to me as if I had a one night stand with the other guy or at least kissed him. I did not even touch him.

[Ouroboros]

Affairs of the heart don't require physical contact.