This makes no sense?

[Crazy chick1]

I've been thinking long & hard about my situation & in doing so have realised that MM seems to be playing a very dangerous game & I wondered if any of you had the experience or wisdom to explain it to me please....

 

During the affair MM would tell me all sorts re his life & M (some good, some bad). After d day & my realisation that he had thrown me under the bus & blamed much of it on me, I contacted his W & let her know the full facts (including copies of emails etc) re what had happened & the types of things we had discussed, which he couldn't deny because I couldn't have known had he not told me. I assumed in doing so that I was burning my bridges with him & he would never want to speak to me again, let alone resume the A.

 

On the couple of times since he broke NC, that we have now spoken, he has once again started to act as he did during the A, telling me things that only could've come from him, letting me know what he was going to tell his W about our conversation & telling me that he wouldn't be letting her know that we'd met at the service station (though nothing happened). He also gave me a photo with a handwritten message on the back (clearly his writing), which was very caring & affectionate in nature & would definitely be met with anger by his W. He wouldn't even be able to state that the message was pre-d day because it referred to the bad times we've been through since. It's like he's handing me evidence on a plate. Bizarre.

 

I find it really hard to understand why he would be willing to show this level of trust in me so early on in the continuation of our communications? It's like he's forgot the bad stuff ever happened, dismissed the hurtful things we both did after d day & we're just talking in precisely the same way as before. Yet he has already told me that he would be 'out the door with his bags' if his W was ever to find out that he was back in regular contact with me again, so he obviously knows how serious it is.

 

Is this sort of behaviour typical in these post d day situations. I believe he does love me (& he admits to me that he still loves his W) but surely it's really not worth it for him to take such huge risks once more?

Edited June 9, 2011 by Crazy chick1

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Hmmm.... Sounds like he needs you to do his dirty work? Maybe he loves the drama of it all? Did you ask him?

[whichwayisup]

Once again, why are you more concerned about the how's and why's of your MM and not the how's and why's of yourself? WHY have you chosen to stick with the A after he threw YOU under the bus?

 

This guy has a huge ego and is selfish. Nice qualities in a man..

[TaraMaiden]

After having opened up to his W and basically torn their marriage further apart by exposing him for the dirty, nasty lying cheat he really is - you're now engaging with him on phase #2?

 

Tell me, how well do you expect this to work out, given that you have a clear insight into what kind of a person he is?

 

Going to tell his wife about this bit too?

 

 

What kind of a game are you playing here?

And what the hell is the point of it?

[whichwayisup]

Is this sort of behaviour typical in these post d day situations. I believe he does love me (& he admits to me that he still loves his W) but surely it's really not worth it for him to take such huge risks once more?

He loves himself more. That huge ego of his, he feels entitled to have you and his wife and keep the A going. He is arrogant!

 

You still need to sit down and look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself WHY you are back being the OW after being treated so poorly. Whatever HIS reasons are to do stay married and keep you on the side are his, but it's more than likely he knows you'll cave to his needs and he'll get what he wants from you. Selfishly, not maliciously. He knows the right thing to say to you, to keep you interested and not walk away.

 

Where's your ego and pride? Do you LOVE him that much that you'll continue to let him smear shi.t on you?

[Crazy chick1]

After having opened up to his W and basically torn their marriage further apart by exposing him for the dirty, nasty lying cheat he really is - you're now engaging with him on phase #2?

 

Tell me, how well do you expect this to work out, given that you have a clear insight into what kind of a person he is?

 

Going to tell his wife about this bit too?

 

 

What kind of a game are you playing here?

And what the hell is the point of it?

 

I love him pure & simple. I struggled so bad during NC & just wanted to hear from him. I was recovering a little but feel right back to square one now. I guess he also intrigues me & yes, he excites me as well.

 

I'm not playing any games, he has explained why he made the decision to stop with his W & I do understand, some of the reasons I accept more than others, the main one being that they have been M for 28 yrs & it's a lot to give up & it is also very scary to walk away. Plus he is concerned about our long-term future as I am significantly younger than he is & he thinks I may get bored of him (I disagree but that's beside the point).

 

If I'm being honest, which I can be on here, I want to be with him full time & being involved in an A with him kills me, but at the moment I haven't the strength to turn my back on him. I live in hope that he is taking a massive risk for a reason; either he is unbelievably naive (he isn't), unbelievably egotistical & arrogant (possibly) or he isn't as bothered as he originally thought re his M (he told me shortly before d day that he almost wished he could get found out & he didn't know how much he'd got left to give his M). This changed for a while with the shock of d day & the responses from his W & grown up children at which point he decided to give his all to his M. Obviously his actions suggest this has now altered again. I guess he could also be confused.

 

WWiU, you keep asking me why I am focusing on MM rather than myself. Answer is, I don't know & can't help myself. I know that I don't want to live like this long term but for now, I will give in to him if that's what he wants.

Edited June 9, 2011 by Crazy chick1

[Owl]

Not to be rude...but you CAN help yourself.

 

YOU are in control of you.

 

You're currently just choosing not to excersise that control.

 

From the outside, I don't think any of us can see how this is possibly going to end up the way that you want it to.

 

He had his "perfect out" at d-day. He could have made his choice differently that day...but clearly, he didn't choose you.

 

Now you're resuming the affair hoping that maybe next time he will? Doesn't make a lot of sense when you stop to think about it.

 

We tell people to ignore the words...look at the actions.

 

His actions say that he's going to be with her...regardless. That he doesn't respect her or you enough to dedicate himself to either one...that the only person he loves in this equation is himself. He's willing to hurt her (by risking another d-day), he's willing to hurt you (as evidenced by this past d-day)...the only person he's protecting is himself.

 

But the bottom line is that YOU can choose what you want to...right now...you've just chosen to continue, even in the light of his behavior.

[TaraMaiden]

I love him pure & simple. I struggled so bad during NC & just wanted to hear from him. I was recovering a little but feel right back to square one now. I guess he also intrigues me & yes, he excites me as well.

This is the classic response form someone who is needy, and feels she can't do better. Tell me (genuine question):

Are you able to stand in front of a mirror, and in all your nakedness, tell yourself that you are a beautiful person and that you love you, above anyone else?

If not - lady, you have a problem.....

 

I'm not playing any games,

You may believe this to be true, but trust me - you are.

if his wife could see you now, she'd ask you what the hell you think you're playing at, too. Wouldn't she?

 

he has explained why he made the decision to stop with his W & I do understand, some of the reasons I accept more than others, the main one being that they have been M for 28 yrs & it's a lot to give up & it is also very scary to walk away.

No, being in love with someone else completely, gives you the courage to walk away. I know - after a 26-year marriage, I know.

 

Plus he is concerned about our long-term future as I am significantly younger than he is & he thinks I may get bored of him (I disagree but that's beside the point).

You're right, it is. It's just another damn stupid excuse.

 

If I'm being honest, which I can be on here, I want to be with him full time & being involved in an A with him kills me, but at the moment I haven't the strength to turn my back on him.

Like I said - desperately needy. This is so wrong on so many levels....

 

I live in hope that he is taking a massive risk for a reason; either he is unbelievably naive (he isn't),

No, but you are, sweetheart...

 

unbelievably egotistical & arrogant (possibly)

Definitely,

 

or he isn't as bothered as he originally thought re his M (he told me shortly before d day that he almost wished he could get found out & he didn't know how much he'd got left to give his M). This changed for a while with the shock of d day & the responses from his W & grown up children at which point he decided to give his all to his M.

So: All hot air, platitudes, lies and wishful thinking.

no Action to back up the mouth movements, then...no sincerity behind his statements. Just something to make you feel better about being the second saddle....

 

Obviously his actions suggest this has now altered again. I guess he could also be confused.

His only confusion is how to keep playing this so well that he has two suckers to screw, instead of just one.

 

 

WWiU, you keep asking me why I am focusing on MM rather than myself. Answer is, I don't know & can't help myself.

Yes, you do, and yes you can. You just don't feel you can fight it, nor do you wish to see sense.

It's crazy.

You really need to get a grip on yourself and understand this: It's a big fat fail, all the way down, and while you let yourself be suckered in, you will never come to terms with who you really are. Don't let this sordid, nasty complicated and stupid affair define who you are. You could be so much more. You just need to value yourself a whole lot more than you actually do....

 

I know that I don't want to live like this long term but for now, I will give in to him if that's what he wants.

 

This actually makes me feel like sticking my fingers down my throat.

Jeesh!! Listen to yourself....!!!

you're not even the doormat.

You're the underlay.

 

Get a grip and get some self-esteem! you have to deny this man his constant ego-trip!

What the hell makes him so special??

I bet if you posted a photo of him (and please, for goodness' sake, don't!) we'd all wonder what the hell he has that keeps you so infatuated...?

 

Why don't you find a real man, instead of one who believes he needs two women to phukk over, to make him feel like the dick in his trousers is worth the effort?

 

Bleah....! :sick:

Edited June 9, 2011 by TaraMaiden

[FightClub]

Crazychick1,

 

I know it's not the easiest thing to hear when you have deep feelings for someone, especially after being involved with them as a exAP and then trying to sort yourself out in the aftermath.

 

What I can tell you is that more than likely as you continue down this path, you will find more pain in the end if you find out for a second time he doesn't choose to be with you.

 

I believe excuses are fair, everyone has a reason for doing or not doing but he chose his wife when obviously your relationship with him should have fundamentally changed his perspective, enough for him to make a clear decision to leave, find some time alone and then find you again.

 

In the end, the decision was not you and it's tough to know that but in the end you will heal and find someone so much better, who will be with you through the best and worst and ultimately will be someone you can invest all your love into because it's mutual...not a half time arrangement.

 

At one point when I walked away from my xMW without trying to go for closure, I wondered if I should have be more vocal, done more to try to save a potential relationship between us but then I realized she made a choice and I respected that choice and kept on walking.

 

It was Owl's advice that really brought clarity to my past seven months ago and since then I've continued to move further and further, because I am worth so much more.

 

You are worth so much more than this and I know you can't see it right now but one day you will be much stronger woman and there will be a wonderful man beside you who will give you the best gift of a all; A real relationship.

 

Godspeed!

 

-FC

[herenow]

It makes perfect sense. He is doing what he is doing because he can. Neither you or his wife has showed him that his actions have consequences. So, he is free to do whatever he wants. So, he does.

[ladydesigner]

It makes perfect sense. He is doing what he is doing because he can. Neither you or his wife has showed him that his actions have consequences. So, he is free to do whatever he wants. So, he does.

 

Great post! One of the women needs to put their foot down. I know I for one would not welcome a second-time after being thrown under the bus.

 

I am A FBS turned WS and when my XOM threw me under the bus, I didn't beg, plead, or show him any inkling that I wanted to be back in the A. I asked for an explanation and got a pretty rude one and a "sorry". He continued to contact me "as friends":sick: until I said enough is enough and went NC on him.

 

Pick yourself up and get your power back girl and find someone worthy of your love. This man is not the one.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

So he doesn't want to walk away from a 28 yr marriage AND he is afraid of losing you. He wanted a Dday but didn't use it to leave. Sooooo.... What is going to change? Is his wife in good health? This is a fantasy of sorts because in reality he doesn't want a solution, he wants an affair. I wouldn't count on another Dday to change anything. If he won't give up his W for the love of his life, I doubt seriously that she is going to give it up for all of the same reasons.

 

Don't ever buy into someone elses fantasy, it can really mess you up. Why not start dating casually and let him know he might lose you if he fails to act? That would change up the equation enough to get a different result, possibly.

 

I get that you love him, but all the love in this world won't save him from himself. It won't change your situation either. If you don't love yourself enough to get out of a situation that his hurting you, then who will? Someone has to be adult enough to deal with the reality of this situation. It's obviously not him. Do you need his W of 28 years to fix this for you and your lover?

[whichwayisup]

 

WWiU, you keep asking me why I am focusing on MM rather than myself. Answer is, I don't know & can't help myself. I know that I don't want to live like this long term but for now, I will give in to him if that's what he wants.

You CAN help yourself, you're just scared not to because you're terrified of not having him in your life, even if table scraps. It makes me sad to hear that you will settle for so little, just because you love him.. Where's your ego and pride? You're going to lose "you" in the midst of this affair and become a very broken, sad woman one day.

 

he has explained why he made the decision to stop with his W

He hasn't stopped with his wife! They are still in the same house, in the same bed and still married! Whatever he's told you doesn't add up to the fact he is STILL there, by choice! he isn't looking to end his marriage..he's just looking for an affair, so I guess if you're Ok with being the OW, then the path is set. Enjoy it while it lasts but do NOT expect him to leave, do NOT put pressure on him at all. See him on his time frame and his terms, not yours. Settle to be second fiddle..I guess that's enough for you.

[Crazy chick1]

WWiU,

 

On the outside I appear to be a reasonably intelligent, fairly attractive woman with a nice home & a good job. On the inside I feel broken, hurt, lost & confused (& yes, I have started to see an IC). This man is dominating my life & I am letting him. He just seems to overpower me & I just allow it to happen.

 

I just wanted to confirm with you that in your opinion, MM is willing to risk his M, NOT because he wants out, though doesn't want to be the one to leave it (ie wants his W to kick him out) but because he just wants an A at any cost?

[whichwayisup]

WWiU,

 

On the outside I appear to be a reasonably intelligent, fairly attractive woman with a nice home & a good job. On the inside I feel broken, hurt, lost & confused (& yes, I have started to see an IC). This man is dominating my life & I am letting him. He just seems to overpower me & I just allow it to happen.

 

I just wanted to confirm with you that in your opinion, MM is willing to risk his M, NOT because he wants out, though doesn't want to be the one to leave it (ie wants his W to kick him out) but because he just wants an A at any cost?

 

Yes, he's selfish and obviously the hold he has on you, smooth talker, he can do that with his wife too, and that's why they are still together. This circle game will go on and on and on until YOU are on the ground, a broken woman and could possibly end up with years of therapy .. This man is going to ruin you so badly if you don't wake up, get some counselling in NOW to help you end it and grieve, let go of him.

 

He isn't "yours"! And the longer you stay, the more pain you're inflicting on yourself.

 

If I lived close to you, I honestly would take you to a therapist, sit and hold your hand, try to get you to see that you are better than this, and he's not worth this much pain and heartache. It kills me to see this smart woman, YOU -- Lay down and let him walk all over you, for "love". You are addicted to how he's made you feel, and it's not a healthy thing. At all.

 

Please, just take time to think this through and don't let yourself fall back in the A. Keep reading on here and posting, let us help you see that staying in the affair is not good.

[Crazy chick1]

Thankyou for replying WWiU, I appreciate your advice.

 

I do place a lot of trust in MM not to hurt me too much because he is not a terrible person. I believe he is at an age where he wonders what else he has to look forward to & just can't believe that someone like me would feel the way I do about him & he doesn't want to lose me. The million $ question at the moment is what lengths will he go to, to try to keep both me & his W? If he's any sense, he will give me up but I think he will struggle to do that for several reasons (I admit sex is one of them). He is also aware & it upset him to hear that I was treated very badly in the past & I know he doesn't want me to feel that much pain again (I have had good R with decent men since).

[whichwayisup]

The thing is, he isn't going to hurt you with malciousness..he's hurting you and WILL continue to hurt you due to his selfishness and putting himself first. I hope you understand that. What he is doing, allowing the A to continue isn't about you, nor is it about his wife. It's about HIM and what needs HE wants met by both you and his wife! He may not intentionally hurt you but you are getting hurt. And you are hurting yourself by staying.

[20Seconds]

I've been thinking long & hard about my situation & in doing so have realised that MM seems to be playing a very dangerous game & I wondered if any of you had the experience or wisdom to explain it to me please....

 

During the affair MM would tell me all sorts re his life & M (some good, some bad). After d day & my realisation that he had thrown me under the bus & blamed much of it on me, I contacted his W & let her know the full facts (including copies of emails etc) re what had happened & the types of things we had discussed, which he couldn't deny because I couldn't have known had he not told me. I assumed in doing so that I was burning my bridges with him & he would never want to speak to me again, let alone resume the A.

 

On the couple of times since he broke NC, that we have now spoken, he has once again started to act as he did during the A, telling me things that only could've come from him, letting me know what he was going to tell his W about our conversation & telling me that he wouldn't be letting her know that we'd met at the service station (though nothing happened). He also gave me a photo with a handwritten message on the back (clearly his writing), which was very caring & affectionate in nature & would definitely be met with anger by his W. He wouldn't even be able to state that the message was pre-d day because it referred to the bad times we've been through since. It's like he's handing me evidence on a plate. Bizarre.

 

I find it really hard to understand why he would be willing to show this level of trust in me so early on in the continuation of our communications? It's like he's forgot the bad stuff ever happened, dismissed the hurtful things we both did after d day & we're just talking in precisely the same way as before. Yet he has already told me that he would be 'out the door with his bags' if his W was ever to find out that he was back in regular contact with me again, so he obviously knows how serious it is.

 

Is this sort of behaviour typical in these post d day situations. I believe he does love me (& he admits to me that he still loves his W) but surely it's really not worth it for him to take such huge risks once more?

 

He takes the risk because so far, based on the actions of both you and his wife, he believes that neither of you will pull the flush.

 

He believes he will have both of you, for as long as he wants, and he can do what he likes.

 

Please take heed of the post about consequences for his actions. There are none, so he continues.

[Gentlegirl]

I understand how you feel powerless.

 

I have degrees, am prinicpal of a college, fabulous job , own home etc etc. I am also told I am attractive...

 

NOUGHT TO DO WITH ANYTHING. These creeps find your vulnerabilities and weave their way into your life.

 

xMM was never out of touch during the day for more than an hour. That went on for 3 years. He ended up dominating my time and my life in the period very soon after my husband died. I was very lonely and vulnerable... not an excuse but I realise how frightened and distraught I was.

 

From what I have read, they are very skilled or maybe intuitive manipulators.

 

For me the NC worked magic. It wasn't easy but it's 6 months now and my life is looking rosy. It broke the hold he had over me and my life. Because I was in such a dreadful time of my life, his significance appeared to be more than it really was. Hindsight has shown me how little influence he should have had.

 

I am actually looking forward to social events, family gatherings and a holiday I am planning. When I was seeing xMM I really only lived for the times I spent with him.

 

I am alone, but at least I am not wondering what he is doing and hating every time he goes away with his wife and waking at 4am knowing he is sleeping beside her. I just don't do that anymore. I am soooo much healthier and happier. H

 

Your MM appears to have no respect for his wife or for you either.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Gentlegirl