Author ShiningEyes Posted June 9, 2011 Author Posted June 9, 2011 Pierre, the problem is that SE has basically said that she has a codependent relationship with this MM. She's dedicating a large amount of her time to this man at the expense of her own being. Not only that but there is a huge power imbalance in their relationship. She is sneaking around and lying for him. He has all of the cards in his hands. That isn't healthy in the least. I think what SE needs to ask is: What makes MM so great that I would lie, sneak and worry about him and his life to such a degree that I would compromise my own lifestyle? What would my life be like without MM and why would it be like this? Remember what I said before... ^There is nothing noble about needlessly being a love martyr. It's damaging in so many ways. So blunt yet so very descriptive of some of what I'm feeling/fearing might be true right about now... Damn it.
Author ShiningEyes Posted June 9, 2011 Author Posted June 9, 2011 Ages - He is 45, I am 35. He has been married 20 years. I've never married.
2sunny Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 if you discover you haven't been honoring self - then change it. to view oneself as doing things and participating on a level that compromises your own value system is not right - and no loving behavior would ever include doing this. that's why i suggested you step away until he IS free to date - when the divorce is FINAL. then you can start with a clear conscience and a clear mind - knowing you did the right thing for your moral compass. to devalue yourself - to make HIM happy - is not what love is about.
OldOnTheInside Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 Look SE, your life is your life but there is one thing that you really need to consider... In real life, the kind of love martyrs that you see in movies, books, poems, songs...whatever, is the person that will get hurt the most if things go south. "Sacrificing for love" sounds very romantic in fiction but in so many cases, that is exactly where it should remain...in fiction. I hope you understand that you have it within you to live a fulfilling life without so much unnecessary drama.
Author ShiningEyes Posted June 9, 2011 Author Posted June 9, 2011 Yes, you're right. I have so much to reflect on in the coming days. Thank you.
bentnotbroken Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 I just wonder if that old saying "be careful what you wish for" rings true here... What if both she and the daughter react negatively to he & I dating? What is the drama-free scenario we've all got (he & ex-W, he a& I, he & daughter, ex-W & daughter, etc) suddenly becomes a battle-ground - all because I was feeling restless and pressured him to tell them about me??? I'm very conflicted. I don't know about anyone else, but I would NOT be happy when I figured out how long you and he have been involved. It would have little to do with the fact that we would be separated, but about me being lied to.
2sunny Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 what i have trouble with is him putting her in this position of "shame" by keeping her a secret. shame is not in alignment with love or loving behavior. IF he intends to get a divorce - why hasn't he made sure it gets FINAL by now? he's had more than a year... and he doesn't offer to you when it's to be final? that's hardly kind from his end. how long does he expect you to wait? i would never put my value system aside for any man - no matter how great he is. believe me, i've dated many men who say they are divorced - and when i found out they are actually "separated" - i don't see them anymore. some were great men - but i just say "call me when your divorce is final." THAT is MY healthy boundary for ME! i have known this guy since i was a kid... we ran into each other about six months ago - he said he's getting divorced... but he will not date anyone until the D is FINAL in July... now THAT is a man i WOULD consider dating when he's free to do so - he has values, character and a healthy boundary for his own conscience. he is in alignment with my moral compass. he's decent and kind, thinks of others. speaks of others in a loving way. THAT is a man i would date... and i bet he asks! voluntarily being his secret seems not enough for a happy life...
OldOnTheInside Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 However, as Ows go this lady is well ahead of the game with a cheating man that actually separated from his wife. It's more a question of whether or not she even wants to keep playing the game.
2sunny Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 All OWs are in a compromised situation. However, as Ows go this lady is well ahead of the game with a cheating man that actually separated from his wife. Most OWs would kill for a situation like this. So I suggest keep a low profile till the dust settles. It would surely hurt the daughter to know daddy ran away with this OW. It would be much better if the daughter meets the OW as someone new that her dad met after the divorce. live the lie? live the lie and compromise the core of who she is for a man? no way, no how! as far as the daughter - IF Daddy wasn't DOING this - there would be no need for ANY cover up... and no need to cause pain to anyone. stop being his secret - start being good to yourself. leave until after the D is final. no pretending, no cover up, no secret. only pride that you are NOW doing the right thing. he will respect you for being the strong woman you were born to be. i'd bet money he'd get motivated to get that D finished a lot quicker too. take care of YOU - no one else is ever going to do that for you.
MissBee Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 (edited) I was the OW for a few months until they separated & he moved out 1 year ago. Then I became the "secret" girlfriend. Though the Divorce is not going to happen anytime soon, they both agreed the M is over. His not-yet ex-W & daughter (in fact no one in his life) knows about me. He & I have maintained a secret relationship for a year now - On the nights his daughter stays w him I stay in my apt - the rest of the time I sleep at his. We travel together, go on "date-nights" several towns over at least once a month. The rest of the time our relationship has unfolded behind closed doors. We also work together (along with Ex-W) and so have to pretend we're just friends in public. SOOOOO... I guess this still makes me the OW, right?? HELP, I'm sad :-) Yes.... This happens in regular "relationships" too where you have an ambiguous position in this person's life and overall feel illegitimate. Such relationships hardly ever progress into what you would like it to be...and why should it if for a year you've allowed it? I speak from experience. "He's just not that into you syndrome"...I identify it and nip it in the bud. I used to spend so much time in ambiguous "relationships" where I had no legit position, it didn't seem to be progressing anywhere, if anything was brought up it was brushed aside or he would do something for that moment and then things went back to being nothing much....I spent time trying to "wait it out", blamed myself, tried to give him the benefit of the doubt and hope for a better day tomorrow or next week etc . I took the fact that this person still made time for me and we hung out and so on as a sign that "well if they weren't interested then they wouldn't call, take me out etc"...wrong...that person can pass the time with you, use you for attention, ego stroke, comfort, an occasional companion, sex buddy, private chef, they can get all the girlfriend stuff from you without ever finding you to be someone they truly want to be with and therefore are in no rush to do anything different esp if the little they do now keeps you around. It's ridiculous and I cringe now that I used to be that way. If I am questioning my position, if I am not certain of where we stand and what's going on....thank you for your time but goodbye! You're simply not that interested for whatever reason and I am not gonna be along for the ride...and usually those rides end with that person you've been so faithfully waiting for dropping you like a hot potato when they finally get tired or find someone or something else that tickles their fancy more than you have. Waiting for someone to see that you're worth it and to do right by you is a waste of time. If someone hasn't expressed full interest and is SHOWING you everyday that you mean a lot to them then is that person worth your time? There are people out there who will. You deserve that! Edited June 9, 2011 by MissBee
carrie999 Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 I think this man is smart to keep this a secret for a couple of years. No need to rub salt in the wounds of daughter and soon to be ex wife. Furthermore, this makes divorce proceedings amicable and with no drama. Ignore the advice of those that favor false pride. I agree, Pierre. I know it's an unpopular point of view on this board, but if the marriage is over and there is no D-day, I'm not sure it's necessarily good for the affair to be revealed. It is very much like rubbing salt in an open wound.
whichwayisup Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 I agree, Pierre. I know it's an unpopular point of view on this board, but if the marriage is over and there is no D-day, I'm not sure it's necessarily good for the affair to be revealed. It is very much like rubbing salt in an open wound. The problem here is, there was an affair and they ALL work at the same place. As I mentioned before, I'm sure 'someone' at work picked up on a vibe, a look, overheard a conversation between them. The truth has it's way of coming out .. Fast forward 3 from now, he's divorced officially, and everything is great..He's living with shining and things seem to be going well with his daughter, she's warmed up to her dad's gf.. A marriage happens, some people at work attend the wedding.. It comes out through gossip that they had an affair and someone tells someone and so on, and it gets back to his ex wife. I'm just saying that continuing to lie and be in an affair dynamic for so long, has it's consquences when affair partners end up together. This one is a big lie and it has potiential to ruin a nice dynamic between him and his ex, and a relationship between daughter and father if she finds out too.
2sunny Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 Yes.... This happens in regular "relationships" too where you have an ambiguous position in this person's life and overall feel illegitimate. Such relationships hardly ever progress into what you would like it to be...and why should it if for a year you've allowed it? I speak from experience. "He's just not that into you syndrome"...I identify it and nip it in the bud. I used to spend so much time in ambiguous "relationships" where I had no legit position, it didn't seem to be progressing anywhere, if anything was brought up it was brushed aside or he would do something for that moment and then things went back to being nothing much....I spent time trying to "wait it out", blamed myself, tried to give him the benefit of the doubt and hope for a better day tomorrow or next week etc . I took the fact that this person still made time for me and we hung out and so on as a sign that "well if they weren't interested then they wouldn't call, take me out etc"...wrong...that person can pass the time with you, use you for attention, ego stroke, comfort, an occasional companion, sex buddy, private chef, they can get all the girlfriend stuff from you without ever finding you to be someone they truly want to be with and therefore are in no rush to do anything different esp if the little they do now keeps you around. It's ridiculous and I cringe now that I used to be that way. If I am questioning my position, if I am not certain of where we stand and what's going on....thank you for your time but goodbye! You're simply not that interested for whatever reason and I am not gonna be along for the ride...and usually those rides end with that person you've been so faithfully waiting for dropping you like a hot potato when they finally get tired or find someone or something else that tickles their fancy more than you have. Waiting for someone to see that you're worth it and to do right by you is a waste of time. If someone hasn't expressed full interest and is SHOWING you everyday that you mean a lot to them then is that person worth your time? There are people out there who will. You deserve that! this is an awesome post.
BB07 Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 All OWs are in a compromised situation. However, as Ows go this lady is well ahead of the game with a cheating man that actually separated from his wife. Most OWs would kill for a situation like this. So I suggest keep a low profile till the dust settles. It would surely hurt the daughter to know daddy ran away with this OW. It would be much better if the daughter meets the OW as someone new that her dad met after the divorce. I don't think you are understanding 2sunny's point and she is spot on with all her posts. Sunny is looking out for the OP and the The OP needs to find out the answers to her questions, anything less and she is setting herself up to be a doormat. I know as I lived a similar situation. I played the good and patient lady in waiting and had I asked the questions and took responsibility for myself better I would not have found myself blindsided. My situation turned out differently than this that was described by the OP, as my xmm wasn't really separated at all, but my point is the OP needs to be proactive and not be such a lady in waiting. She has EVERY RIGHT to know where exactly she stands as she is very invested.
whichwayisup Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 She has EVERY RIGHT to know where exactly she stands as she is very invested. As does anybody in a one on one relationship too. Eventually 'the talk' comes up, where are we heading with this relationship.
2sunny Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 As does anybody in a one on one relationship too. Eventually 'the talk' comes up, where are we heading with this relationship. see this is why it's backwards... she's in a one on three relationship. his one on one relationship is still considered to be with his W - especially since he has to ask her permission to date and continues to keep the OP his secret. one on three = you: plus him, his W and his daughter. he's willing to NOT hurt them - but he's willing to hurt you. it's completely backwards. he can't take the R forward because he hasn't finished with the first one yet. YOU should be his priority - and if you're not - then leave.
Author ShiningEyes Posted June 9, 2011 Author Posted June 9, 2011 The problem here is, there was an affair and they ALL work at the same place. As I mentioned before, I'm sure 'someone' at work picked up on a vibe, a look, overheard a conversation between them. The truth has it's way of coming out .. Fast forward 3 from now, he's divorced officially, and everything is great..He's living with shining and things seem to be going well with his daughter, she's warmed up to her dad's gf.. A marriage happens, some people at work attend the wedding.. It comes out through gossip that they had an affair and someone tells someone and so on, and it gets back to his ex wife. I'm just saying that continuing to lie and be in an affair dynamic for so long, has it's consquences when affair partners end up together. This one is a big lie and it has potiential to ruin a nice dynamic between him and his ex, and a relationship between daughter and father if she finds out too. You know, this is very possible. I think he and I would like to imagine that no one at all knows, that we have been 100% discreet, we're safe, etc but it is also possible that the "vibe" has been picked up on over the course of the year.
Author ShiningEyes Posted June 9, 2011 Author Posted June 9, 2011 he can't take the R forward because he hasn't finished with the first one yet. And here is the bottom line... It does all come down to your point.
BB07 Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 But----------that is the lifestyle of an OW. The happy OWs expect little and the ones that expect a lot are unhappy. OWs have to live by the rules dictated by the marriage of the MM. That in itself is a bit of a doormat status. I really think the OP is doing as well as can be expected for an OW. I don't mean to sound like a smartass.........BUT this man has been separated for a year, she is NOT the typical OW, in fact she shouldn't be ow status at all now, that WHICH is the POINT. Shining needs to look out for herself.......she has remained in the background longer than she should have and it's setting the tone for the future. Also..........there should not be any rules dictated by the mm's marriage at this point in time. As sunny was pointing out if the mm's marriage is still the primary consideration then something is very wrong. On the other hand I'm not saying that the stbx and daughter should be overlooked but it's time for some truth and authenticity so ALL parties can MOVE ON.
whichwayisup Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 This is one of the perils of being involved with a taken man. The guy is still married even though he is separated. Just curious but is his wife still included in his benefit/insurance programe at work? Obviously his daughter is, but what about his wife?
Author ShiningEyes Posted June 9, 2011 Author Posted June 9, 2011 I don't mean to sound like a smartass.........BUT this man has been separated for a year, she is NOT the typical OW, in fact she shouldn't be ow status at all now, that WHICH is the POINT. Shining needs to look out for herself.......she has remained in the background longer than she should have and it's setting the tone for the future. Also..........there should not be any rules dictated by the mm's marriage at this point in time. As sunny was pointing out if the mm's marriage is still the primary consideration then something is very wrong. On the other hand I'm not saying that the stbx and daughter should be overlooked but it's time for some truth and authenticity so ALL parties can MOVE ON. Thanks for the support :-)
Author ShiningEyes Posted June 9, 2011 Author Posted June 9, 2011 Just curious but is his wife still included in his benefit/insurance programe at work? Yup. And he still carries a lot of financial weight in terms of household expenses. he has never complained once about that. But they have talked about selling the house sometime next year.
OldOnTheInside Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 (edited) It's more a question of whether or not she even wants to keep playing the game. ^Okay...this quote seems to have been thrown to the curb a little... But this is what it really comes down to SE. Forget the MM. Forget the wife and daughter. They live their lives, and you live yours. Knowing what you know, and knowing what has been discussed in this thread, do you want to keep playing this game? 'Cause it sounds like you don't really know what you want. Edited June 9, 2011 by OldOnTheInside
2sunny Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 FYI - my exH and I didn't finalize our D for about 4-5 years... mainly because of the insurance covering me... are you willing to stay his secret - this limbo mode - for 4-5 years - being at the mercy of what seems best for his W? it could go on like this for way longer than that! i've seen it happen... the D never gets finalized because of insurance or property settlements as the excuse to delay... being his secret is up to you... as long as you don't ask for more - he will leave things just the same - so he doesn't rock the boat... as long as he is comfortable with the way things are= he's not likely to change them.
Author ShiningEyes Posted June 9, 2011 Author Posted June 9, 2011 Am I willing to remain a secret and for how much longer? I can't stomach the idea of another year, much less 4-5. I spoke with today about how I feel. He listened and understood pretty well. He made an appointment with his therapist (used to be M counselor, no sees him alone) to get suggestions on how to initiate the conversation with W since the therapist knows W very well. He says he feels terrible about how I am feeling and does want to "tell the world" that he's in love and that we're in love and that we ARE together. So, for the whole weekend, his parents are in town visiting and are staying with W and daughter (she has the house) and a sibling is staying with him at his apt. They're all out for dinner tonight and will spend most of the weekend together because it's the daughters graduation, school events, etc. he came to see me just before meeting them all and promised to make time to see me even if for a few minutes every day. Obviously I'm not meeting anyone, no one is meeting me since his family doesn't know about me. The contrast is pretty significant in that he is traveling with me next week to visit my family (he's already met them) for a week. *sigh* So I've been an OW before, in fact for 5 years (on and off) I was an OW to a MM who lived in a diff state and went through my share of pain and frustration at the situation. I have a history of accepting being "a secret" and living with the pain (also concealing the pain). I love my BF - I really do. But I am also thinking about how this current R can sometimes feel like a reproduction of an MM/OW relationship. I mean, isn't that how me met? And in fact I was WILLING (masochist?) to be with him as a MM and HE was the one who said NO - I don't want an OW. So he made the decision to leave so that we could be together.... I'm rambling... I want to read more of your comments so will respond to Qs as they come.
Recommended Posts