2sunny Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 By getting involved with a M/Separated Man I knew what I was getting into? ok. so now you know and you have choices. you can choose to leave. you can choose to back away and wait until it's final - or even after so he has that healing time. Link to post Share on other sites
OldOnTheInside Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 By getting involved with a M/Separated Man I knew what I was getting into? Still a human being. With human wants and needs... Link to post Share on other sites
Author ShiningEyes Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share Posted June 9, 2011 Thanks... This is all really helpful. It could be that they never even talked about "dating" - he might of been to afraid to bring up the subject so as not to give himself away and she simply assumed neither would date during this first year. She is definitely not dating though he would like her to as that would probably/hopefully make the "conversation" go a lot smoother... Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Thanks... This is all really helpful. It could be that they never even talked about "dating" - he might of been to afraid to bring up the subject so as not to give himself away and she simply assumed neither would date during this first year. She is definitely not dating though he would like her to as that would probably/hopefully make the "conversation" go a lot smoother... too many assumptions. read the book the four agreements by don miguel ruiz- it will help you. it will change your life... for the better. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 why would a grown man need to "have that conversation" with a spouse he intends to divorce? Because he still cares about his soon to be ex and he doesn't want to her hurt, but it also isn't out of total genuine concern. Because too, this was a work place affair, and you ALL work in the same place, it IS possible someone at work knows or was/is suspicious so when when people do start finding out, it could also come out that rumours were going on that you two were involved while he was still living at home and married. He is aware of the possible fallout and how it could affect his pocket in the divorce and also the strain it'll have as co parents. After a full year of separation with the intention of divorcing, he really doesn't need to ask permission. That's his stalling block here, and a way to control the situation, and do what's easiest/best for him .. Not you nor his wife. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 She is definitely not dating though How does he know this when SHE doesn't know he is! That makes no sense.. UNLESS he came out and asked her, she said no and she asked him and he chickened out and told her he wasn't either. She could be seeing someone, just like he is and keeping it from her daughter, just like he is! Link to post Share on other sites
Author ShiningEyes Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share Posted June 9, 2011 I just wonder if that old saying "be careful what you wish for" rings true here... What if both she and the daughter react negatively to he & I dating? What is the drama-free scenario we've all got (he & ex-W, he a& I, he & daughter, ex-W & daughter, etc) suddenly becomes a battle-ground - all because I was feeling restless and pressured him to tell them about me??? I'm very conflicted. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I just wonder if that old saying "be careful what you wish for" rings true here... What if both she and the daughter react negatively to he & I dating? What is the drama-free scenario we've all got (he & ex-W, he a& I, he & daughter, ex-W & daughter, etc) suddenly becomes a battle-ground - all because I was feeling restless and pressured him to tell them about me??? I'm very conflicted. Neither you nor him have any control over how his (ex)wife and daughter will react. You hope for the best and expect the worst. How old is their daughter? I wouldn't bank on their daughter being thrilled daddy has a girlfriend. No kid wants to see their parents with someone else, even more so, so quickly after a divorce. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ShiningEyes Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share Posted June 9, 2011 How does he know this when SHE doesn't know he is! That makes no sense.. UNLESS he came out and asked her, she said no and she asked him and he chickened out and told her he wasn't either. She could be seeing someone, just like he is and keeping it from her daughter, just like he is! Boy, that would be interesting. But he seems pretty sure - though you never know, maybe. Unlikely though given how he describes her personality type (introvert, shy, homebody, quiet, etc.). He'd like her to date - and I know he's being genuine about this. The chickening out part make me wonder though... MAYBE she has asked him and he's said/lied "Nope" ... REALLY what I think right now is that this is a good time to ask more questions. Any suggestions as to what kinds of questions I should be asking? Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I just wonder if that old saying "be careful what you wish for" rings true here... What if both she and the daughter react negatively to he & I dating? What is the drama-free scenario we've all got (he & ex-W, he a& I, he & daughter, ex-W & daughter, etc) suddenly becomes a battle-ground - all because I was feeling restless and pressured him to tell them about me??? I'm very conflicted. this isn't a worry if you no longer date him... right? Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Boy, that would be interesting. But he seems pretty sure - though you never know, maybe. Unlikely though given how he describes her personality type (introvert, shy, homebody, quiet, etc.). He'd like her to date - and I know he's being genuine about this. The chickening out part make me wonder though... MAYBE she has asked him and he's said/lied "Nope" ... REALLY what I think right now is that this is a good time to ask more questions. Any suggestions as to what kinds of questions I should be asking? Just like she is pretty sure and clueless that he isn't dating??? See? It makes you stop and think, doesn't it. You do need to talk to him and just be honest and tell him how you feel and why. Speak from your heart and you can't go wrong. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ShiningEyes Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share Posted June 9, 2011 Neither you nor him have any control over how his (ex)wife and daughter will react. You hope for the best and expect the worst. How old is their daughter? I wouldn't bank on their daughter being thrilled daddy has a girlfriend. No kid wants to see their parents with someone else, even more so, so quickly after a divorce. Right, I know. BOTH my parents re-married and I wasn't thrilled about it either. He and his D are very close - maybe he'll find a way of telling her so that she understands? Is it best to wait a little longer? Link to post Share on other sites
Author ShiningEyes Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share Posted June 9, 2011 this isn't a worry if you no longer date him... right? I'm not ready to let him go... I can't just walk away. I am very much in love - we are very much in love. I see that you are totally convinced the R has to end - at least for now - BUT I can't do that. Yes, I am sad and feeling overwhelmed by our circumstances, but not having him in my life at all would just break me into pieces. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Right, I know. BOTH my parents re-married and I wasn't thrilled about it either. He and his D are very close - maybe he'll find a way of telling her so that she understands? Is it best to wait a little longer? She shouldn't know about you until the divorce is final. Sorry, I know you probably don't want to hear that.. You've been there so you know that pain of divorced parents and having them date others. IF you parents sat you down, would you be understanding? Especially at age 16? I know I wouldn't be! Don't expect things to be smooth sailing. Also, she needs to meet you at her own time frame and terms, so please, don't push to meet her or make him tell her about you. It's one thing to tell his (ex) wife, he's dating right now, but no need to tell his daughter until the D is final. And even then, she will need time to adjust to the D being official and shouldn't be told of you until she has time to adjust. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I'm not ready to let him go... I can't just walk away. I am very much in love - we are very much in love. I see that you are totally convinced the R has to end - at least for now - BUT I can't do that. Yes, I am sad and feeling overwhelmed by our circumstances, but not having him in my life at all would just break me into pieces. You don't have to end it and walk away, but maybe backing off slightly and do less sleepovers, and enjoy YOUR time with other friends, family and maybe people you haven't seen in a while.. Your whole life is wrapped up in this guy, he has his life still with his daughter and ex, PLUS, like it or not, he WILL be grieving the end of his marriage when the D is final. He's had NO time to be alone (since it started as an affair) he moved out and straight to you, no time in between to process things and be alone. Hope this makes sense to you. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Right, I know. BOTH my parents re-married and I wasn't thrilled about it either. He and his D are very close - maybe he'll find a way of telling her so that she understands? Is it best to wait a little longer? evidence shows that he is NOT so close to his daughter that he would be honest with her right? since he seems to keep secrets from the ones he loves - you should now figure he keeps secrets from you as well. bank on it! talk to him. ask him everything. write a list of questions... watch his body language when he answers - look for conflicting body language to "see" if he's lying to you. YOU have a right to understand the truth about what is happening... then you have the right to make decisions based on what truth he gives you. i'm concerned you have already made up your mind to stay before you have any info from him. denial isn't helpful in these cases - nor is being delusional. to understand it fully - then process his truth - then listen to what your gut tells you - is key. don't "think" so much with your heart - you have a brain and your gut that will help you too... use them wisely. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ShiningEyes Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share Posted June 9, 2011 She shouldn't know about you until the divorce is final. Sorry, I know you probably don't want to hear that.. You've been there so you know that pain of divorced parents and having them date others. IF you parents sat you down, would you be understanding? Especially at age 16? I know I wouldn't be! Don't expect things to be smooth sailing. Also, she needs to meet you at her own time frame and terms, so please, don't push to meet her or make him tell her about you. It's one thing to tell his (ex) wife, he's dating right now, but no need to tell his daughter until the D is final. And even then, she will need time to adjust to the D being official and shouldn't be told of you until she has time to adjust. I am nodding my head. Yes, yes, yes. I can wait a little longer. The last thing I want is to put pressure on him/the daughter/the ex-W. I *will* have a con with him this week - about the terms of the separation & Divorce, not about "coming out" - that alone will feel like progress. Overall things have gone smoothly for them all, and for me as well. My frustration has emerged in the last month but maybe I just have to step back and remind myself of the bigger picture and that this sacrifice will be worth it in the end, thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I am nodding my head. Yes, yes, yes. I can wait a little longer. The last thing I want is to put pressure on him/the daughter/the ex-W. I *will* have a con with him this week - about the terms of the separation & Divorce, not about "coming out" - that alone will feel like progress. Overall things have gone smoothly for them all, and for me as well. My frustration has emerged in the last month but maybe I just have to step back and remind myself of the bigger picture and that this sacrifice will be worth it in the end, thanks. things have been smooth because you are willing to keep quiet - to betray yourself... knowing that you shouldn't need to be a secret to anyone. no need to wait - you've waited more than a year. time to talk it through with him and understand what really is going on. he may not actually plan to be divorced - who knows - he could be separated forever... it happens... Link to post Share on other sites
Author ShiningEyes Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share Posted June 9, 2011 You don't have to end it and walk away, but maybe backing off slightly and do less sleepovers, and enjoy YOUR time with other friends, family and maybe people you haven't seen in a while.. Your whole life is wrapped up in this guy, he has his life still with his daughter and ex, PLUS, like it or not, he WILL be grieving the end of his marriage when the D is final. He's had NO time to be alone (since it started as an affair) he moved out and straight to you, no time in between to process things and be alone. Hope this makes sense to you. Oh, my life has been soooo wrapped up in him and the "us" we're quietly building. No, he's had no time to be alone though when we talk about that he says that for so long he & W were living separate lives that he more or less processed the loss while still living at the house... And that the joy and happiness I bring him when we're together was what he had quietly fantasized about during those last years.... For me too. His love has changed my life. We - almost immediately - became addicted to each other... What we provided for each other was a much needed "burst" of love, attention, passion, and affection... *sigh* Perhaps he does need time alone to process... *sigh* Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 just be true to yourself - knowing that you deserve the best. by having a conversation with him about all of your doubts - and asking for his truth -you will understand what your next step should be. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ShiningEyes Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share Posted June 9, 2011 things have been smooth because you are willing to keep quiet - to betray yourself... knowing that you shouldn't need to be a secret to anyone. no need to wait - you've waited more than a year. time to talk it through with him and understand what really is going on. he may not actually plan to be divorced - who knows - he could be separated forever... it happens... Much of what you write here has described my greatest fears... And all these possibilities have crossed my mind at one point or another. Maybe he lies to me also. Maybe they have no plan toward divorce. Maybe when it comes down to it, he'd rather break it off than be honest to his ex-W & daughter about the fact that he is in a relationship. Maybe this relationship has actually been oppressive rather than empowering to me. Maybe it's not love - rather, co-dependency and emotional "rescue" type of intimacy. Maybe I am really, at the end of the day, still the OW and that's how he sees me. If all of this is true, then I just wasted a year of my life that I'll never get back AND seriously jeopardized my professional standing at work... OK... now I'm really sad... Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Much of what you write here has described my greatest fears... And all these possibilities have crossed my mind at one point or another. Maybe he lies to me also. Maybe they have no plan toward divorce. Maybe when it comes down to it, he'd rather break it off than be honest to his ex-W & daughter about the fact that he is in a relationship. Maybe this relationship has actually been oppressive rather than empowering to me. Maybe it's not love - rather, co-dependency and emotional "rescue" type of intimacy. Maybe I am really, at the end of the day, still the OW and that's how he sees me. If all of this is true, then I just wasted a year of my life that I'll never get back AND seriously jeopardized my professional standing at work... OK... now I'm really sad... don't be sad... just ask for information that will help you to understand what is going on. what his plan is - and when the divorce will be FINAL. that's not too much to ask - you deserve to know - as it DOES affect you. you have choices! you sure do - to wait and wonder seems silly - ask him everything you want to know. any man who says he loves should be willing to share his truth with you at any time. THAT is loving behavior. so start asking. listen intently to his answers... voice inflection and pay attention to body language. do research on body language - brush up - so you know what you're looking for when you chat. hopefully if he's giving his truth - his body language won't be in conflict with his words. ask him! Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 what are your ages - and how long has he been married? Link to post Share on other sites
Author ShiningEyes Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share Posted June 9, 2011 Thanks - This is all very helpful. Link to post Share on other sites
OldOnTheInside Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Pierre, the problem is that SE has basically said that she has a codependent relationship with this MM. She's dedicating a large amount of her time to this man at the expense of her own being. Not only that but there is a huge power imbalance in their relationship. She is sneaking around and lying for him. He has all of the cards in his hands. That isn't healthy in the least. I think what SE needs to ask is: What makes MM so great that I would lie, sneak and worry about him and his life to such a degree that I would compromise my own lifestyle? What would my life be like without MM and why would it be like this? Remember what I said before... Still a human being. With human wants and needs... ^There is nothing noble about needlessly being a love martyr. It's damaging in so many ways. Link to post Share on other sites
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