I am so Sad. What the hell happened?

[NickFrescia]

This will be long, so forgive the length....

 

I was in a short term relationship (if you can even call it that) that was so complicated and ended under such strange circumstances that I am still hurt over it 4 months later.

 

To make a long story short, I am in my late 20's and I began to work closely with a woman at a job from september till early Feb. She was my co-worker/boss. We saw each other once a week at work and spent around 6hrs together.

 

My relationship experience is extremely limited (i am a bit shy and aside from a few crushes and a failed long distance 2 yr LTR where we never even met due to distance in my early 20's, I'm pretty much a rookie in matters of the heart) and she was about 8 months out of an emotionally draining divorce (5 year relationship). She was a few years older and had much more life experience and more dating experience than me needless to say. Personality wise, she is extremely serious and dedicated. Very wound up and intense. I was the exact opposite, much more calm and relaxed. A bit more of a funlover.

 

Anyway, to complicate matters...she is a very conservative middle eastern woman and viewed marriage as so sacred and final that the breakup destroyed her (the man emotionally abused her and used her for citizenship). She was I believe irreparably scarred.

 

As for myself, I was not interested at all in any kind of relationship due to my own personal problems. She was the same. We both were completely closed off and uninterested in anything beyond work.

 

However, there was intense physical attraction and chemistry between us. Sparks flew and to be honest I have never felt that type of intense chemistry with someone before. We got along extremely well and became friends and would chat via email/text every day. I guess we bonded over the sadness of our lives...we both were vulnerable and found an outlet in each other.

 

Finally I asked her out on a date (first time I've ever asked a woman out). By the time we asked each other out I think we both had an intense infatuation with each other.

 

The date was quite bad (I made a lot of first date mistakes), and there was some initial awkwardness, but I feel we were able to effortlessly keep conversation even though I am quite stoic by nature. There was a connection between us, that much was obvious. The only thing I felt was lacking was the mental connection. She was more intelligent than me and was further along in life and I was just starting my life (just finishing undergrad and applying to grad programs) but it didn't seem to matter much. I felt it was a gap that could be bridged since the elements for a successful relationship were in place (chemistry, friendship, emotional connection,etc). She was quite a bit more confident and assertive than me...so I was following her lead a bit. Your classic older woman/younger man relationship.

 

In any case, after the date, the next day she said she simply could not do it anymore and that she still missed her ex and wasn't ready for a relationship. Apparently I was her first date since the divorce. Over the next 1.5 months, it was the same hot/cold cycle. We chatted every day and we both had that "love struck" look on our faces when we saw each other at work. Over the phone, she told me she liked me a lot but that she was extremely confused and was scared of making another mistake in her life. In her words, I was like a small plant that was growing in her heart amidst the ashes of her old relationship. She said that sometimes if we like something, we have to let it go and if it comes back to us, it was meant to be and after she said it..she broke down crying. It was a very intimate 3 hr conversation.

 

In January, we decided to basically do limited contact so that she could heal and then decide if she could pursue a relationship with me. Somewhere in the second week of January she totally changed and became extremely cold and withdrawn to me. Distancing herself. She informed me that her ex had contacted her and that she was extremely confused. I would chat with her on gchat maybe once a week and would get cold/one sentence answers. I saw her at work and she was literally hot/cold. One minute acting like we were close, and then the next like we were strangers. The more she did that, the more I felt something was wrong and was worried she was depressed. I ended up writing a concerned email asking her what was wrong and if she was depressed.

 

I got an extremely angry/harsh response that she wanted me to back off and that she didn't need any advice from me. What hurt me aside from the rebuff is the tone...it felt like she had no respect for me. Like she felt she was better than me in some way. I became really withdrawn after that and did not contact her...3 days later she texted me asking me to call her and not to email her so that I wouldn't annoy her (I am serious, she actually said I was annoying her). Where was the sweet woman I knew?

 

The phone call went badly. She said that her friends thought that she was too harsh so she wanted to apologize but at the same time she said the concern I showed was way too much (in essence I was smothering her) and that we should be just friends. She said she got angry because she felt that I was trying to rush her in getting over her ex. I was for some reason quite angry still by her email and felt pretty disrespected. She was trying to segue the conversation into a friendly chat like we usually had in the past but I was so angry that I felt if I stayed on the phone I would lose it, so I cut the conversation short.

 

I saw her at work the following day and we both did not mention anything about all this to each other. We worked, pretended nothing had happened, and our conversation as we walked out of work was quite forced. There was a real communication problem at that point.

 

I saw her coincidentally at the market a few days later and aside from exchanging a few forced pleasantries, she put her head down and didn't make eye contact. I got the message and walked away. Extremely awkward. We both were parked right next to each other and we didn't even look at each other as we got into our cars. I am not making this up...it was that awkward.

 

The next week at work was excruciatingly bad. She was so abusive to me and was lashing out at me like the way an abusive boss does to an employee...and my response was simply shutting down, not giving eye contact and ignoring her. I didn't want to argue with her so I shut down, what else could I do? The more i ignored her, the more upset she got. She humiliated me in front of the physicians we worked with (we were doing paperwork for them) by pointing out my flaws and criticizing everything I did. I have never been so disrespected in my life...it was quite shocking. Instead of working side by side as co-workers, it had turned into a boss/employee relationship.

 

I texted her a few days later to talk and what followed was basically this:

 

"So you want to know if you're still in the game huh? Well, there is no us, there will never be an us. I know we talked about dating, but we are on two different wavelengths. No hard feelings, I hope you don't hold a grudge. Feel free to leave the job if you have to."

 

There were a few more words exchanged, but the tone was basically passive-aggressive like she was extremely pissed but was speaking to me in a very cold matter of fact way. She kept it very professional although she threw a few very subtle digs at me (one was about my lack of intelligence (!))There was no heated argument on the phone, I accepted what she said, and ended the conversation in a civil manner.

 

Our next week on the job ended up being my last. While for the most part we were civil and she was trying hard to go back to our old interaction (us being friends)....I kept my distance as I was no longer comfortable with her and was going through my own emotions. This annoyed her since I guess she expected me to follow her around like her right hand man as I did when we first met. She was stressed out after that and kept snapping at me for every damn thing....and yet again when I looked in her eyes she still had feelings for me.

 

At the end of work I decided I had just about had enough. I asked for a transfer and got it immediately. I informed her I was leaving via email and kept it short and professional wishing her good luck. I was prepared to implement NC at that point.

 

She fired off an angry 2 sentence reply that said "Why am I not surprised? I expected this from you. Do me a favor, never contact me again. I am not even interested in hearing a reply from you. We are no longer friends, only acquaintances."

 

I was shell shocked. This was one of the sweetest women I had ever met. How could things go so wrong so quickly? Our physical contact was limited to only a few hugs (we are both from conservative middle eastern backgrounds) but there were a lot of feelings on both sides.

 

I wrote her a very impassioned email (the classic breakup mistake) telling her that I respect her and have a great deal of affection for her, apologizing if I had offended her and simply saying that my transferring was because I felt I couldn't deal with the situation anymore. I wanted things to go back to the way they were and if she wanted to reconsider, I'd cancel my transfer so we can start over. I left the door open and honestly regardless of the way she disrespected me, it was a very positive email. I was way too nice and magnanimous in retrospect.

 

I got a phone call the next day from her and as usual she was pissed. Her words were as follows:

 

"What part of no communication do you not understand? So you have decided to leave, that is your business but we will be fine here without you. I do not appreciate you going over my head to do this, you should have told me in person that you were going to transfer...etc"

 

She was very pissed I was leaving and sounded like an irate boss yelling at an employee who went over her head. All I could think was , "christ almighty, this is all you care about?"

 

She exasperatedly told me again: "Look, I am not interested. I don't know why you're acting this way, all we had was one bad date and a few conversations. I dont want to hurt your feelings by telling you the reason for ending things but it is not good. You need to date more, you have so much emotion. Think of me as an older sister. Right now I am neutral, but if you call me again I will get angry. "

 

The tone was like she didn't respect me anymore and felt she was better than me, more intelligent and mature...and almost like I was a stalker. She broke down our entire relationship as a few phonecalls and a bad date. That hurt tremendously. I resented the stalker implication as I am notoriously distant in most of my interpersonal relationships. I guess all of her ex's were crazy and persistent so she assumed the same about me.

 

She also had a paranoid impression that I was going to sabotage her by badmouthing her to the superiors and other employees. Basically assumed the worst about me and my intentions.

 

Anyway, she and I both signed off wishing each other good luck.

 

Throughout the phone call she went from extremely cold/professional to vulnerable to harsh. It was quite jarring. She blocked and deleted me off facebook and email the same day.

 

We have not spoken since. I get the feeling she expected me to call her and beg her like all her other ex's have done. Two months later, I was invited to a crew party for this job. She still had my phone # (why?) and passed it on to the co-worker who called me. I didn't go. A week ago, I was invited to a second party, a sendoff party for this woman. It would have been my last chance to see her. I got the email too late and was unable to go. I may have actually gone had I gotten it earlier but Im glad in a way that I didn't go. I just cant bear to see her face.

 

She utterly humiliated me. I just felt like as much as I liked her, I couldn't bear to see her again after what she told me. It's like she completely burned the bridges.

 

It's been 4 months and I still miss her. I vacillate from not wanting to look at her face ever again to wondering if I'll ever run into her. There was so much potential with us that she sabotaged completely in that one month where she turned into a completely different person. Everywhere I go I seem to see her face. Maybe it's my lack of dating experience or the fact that I have never let a woman this close to me before (including my ex of 2 yrs)...but I having a hard time shaking this woman's influence off me.

 

I suspect she was reaching out to mend fences somewhat 2 months ago...but now? I assume she is over me. We are both quite proud and stubborn. She is very striking and beautiful and not to blow my own trumpet but I am not too shabby in the looks department (im a model). Neither of us will ever have trouble getting a date. So there is an arrogance with both of us about any perceived rejection I suppose. I would still be open to atleast mending fences but she disrespected me so much. How can you be friends with someone who doesn't respect you?

 

I know I made a lot of mistakes getting involved with a more mature divorced woman who was still thinking about her ex but I genuinely cared for her. There were a lot of red flags (she blamed her ex for everything and was hypercritical of me towards the end). I feel I have grown tremendously from this experience. Going from never being rejected by a woman to getting completely thrown under the bus by someone who appeared to be completely taken with me...has been a sobering experience.

 

I am so sad. How do I get this woman out of my mind. The relationship was only 3 months but the feelings are still so strong in my mind 4 months later. When I left my ex of 2 years, I was completely over it and did not even think of her. She did not make the same mark on me as this woman has done in such a short time. Neither of us took relationships frivolously especially this woman. I was the first guy she liked and dated since her divorce and I know she still has a soft spot for me.

 

Can someone make sense of what happened? Did she even like me? Was I a rebound? Did I ruin any chances of a reconciliation by waiting too long? Should I still pursue her? At this point I think so much time has passed, it would be difficult to mend things or for one of us to extend an olive branch. Unless I run into her again somewhere randomly or someone organizes another group party....I feel I will never see her again.

Edited June 8, 2011 by NickFrescia

[NickFrescia]

One other thing....I suspect strongly she has a lot of unresolved emotional issues and tremendous baggage. She has been through quite a turbulent past. She was very high energy and hyper but prone to mood swings. One minute extremely warm, the next minute an ice queen. Definite anger issues (throwing plates, fuming/heavy breathing,etc). I heard via the grapevine from a co-worker who mentioned that he intially didn't like her because she seemed very bitchy (the month that we were breaking up) but he found her to be one of the sweetest women he had ever met (basically after I left she calmed down). BPD?

 

I'm hardly perfect either... I've been diagnosed with Avoidant personality issues. I'm very quiet and passive and prone to "distancing" myself from people to avoid getting close (fear of rejection basically).

 

What is so jarring about this whole situation is how intense it was and how it went down in flames so quickly. I'm pretty sure if I met her today, within minutes we'd be getting along like old friends. But, you cannot undo the damage of words sometimes....

[NickFrescia]

The more I think, the more I feel like I was a rebound. I feel like I was used and discarded after she didn't need me anymore or when the realities of being in a relationship started to override the "honeymoon" period.

[Downtown]

Nick, welcome to the LoveShack forum. Yes, the behavior you are describing does exhibit several strong BPD traits. Of course, only a professional can determine whether they are strong enough to meet the diagnostic criteria for having full-blown BPD. Yet, because the red flags are not difficult to spot, I would encourage you to read more about BPD traits, given that you are determined to get a better sense of closure. If your ex does have strong BPD traits, it is a good thing the two of you separated. A pairing of a thin-skinned Avoidant personality (i.e., you) with a BPDer is like trying to pair a helium baloon with a prickly cactus.

She was very high energy and hyper but prone to mood swings. One minute extremely warm, the next minute an ice queen.

That's the way a mood change occurs with BPDers (i.e., those having strong BPD traits). The anger originated in early childhood and is always there just below the surface. It therefore can be triggered in just 10 seconds by an idle comment or minor infraction. The resulting flip from one extreme (adoring you) to its polar opposite extreme (hating you) occurs so rapidly it seem like the BPDer is flipping a switch in her mind. This instance change is possible because a BPDer does black-white thinking, wherein she categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad." She cannot tolerate ambiguities or gray areas. Hence, it only takes a minor infraction to move you into the "all bad" category. Interestingly, a BPDer categorizes herself in the same way, believing that a small mistake makes her "all bad." This is one reason a BPDer is so resistant to admitting to making a mistake or having a flaw.

What is so jarring about this whole situation is how intense it was and how it went down in flames so quickly.

Because a BPDer has great difficulty regulating her emotions, she is used to experiencing very intense feeling frequently -- and can get bored easily when they are missing. This is one reason that a relationship with a BPDer starts off so intensely so quickly. Another reason is the BPDer's practice of "mirroring" you personality when she becomes infatuated with you. This intense, passionate period of mirroring typically lasts only 3 to 6 months because it exists only as long as her infatuation lasts.

 

The infatuation holds her two great fears (abandonment and engulfment) at bay, preventing you from triggering those fears -- and, hence, her anger -- during the honeymoon period. It therefore is not surprising that your ex started throwing hissy fits, icy withdrawal, and temper tantrums at the three-month mark. By that time, she likely was starting to feel engulfed and suffocated by the intimacy.

 

If this discussion rings a bell, Nick, I suggest you read my description of typical BPDer behavior in Cyanogen's thread. My two posts there start at http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3417491#post3417491. If you have any questions about that discussion, I would be glad to try to answer them or point you to online resources that can. Take care, Nick.

[nyc_guy2003]

Don't mean to be harsh, but it sounds like any "relationship" you had with her was all in your head. One bad date and some conversations at work...most people have had more meaningful social relationships with people they're not even interested in dating than this.

[NickFrescia]

Don't mean to be harsh, but it sounds like any "relationship" you had with her was all in your head. One bad date and some conversations at work...most people have had more meaningful social relationships with people they're not even interested in dating than this.

 

I assure you this was most definitely not the case. It sounds unconventional only because we both come from very conservative backgrounds but we had many conversations, discussions about "our" future,etc. In a span of two weeks, I went from one of her "best friends" into an "acquaintance".

 

There are certain checkpoints in a relationship where if you reveal your feelings and the other person is on the same wavelength, then you move forward. With this woman it's like took 2 steps forward and then 10 steps backward a week later. Just very confusing contradictory behavior.

[NickFrescia]

Downtown, thanks for your detailed reply. I actually suspected that she was Bipolar rather than having BPD. My previous ex was a classic BPD and she was much more emotionally unstable. I endured months of stalking and harassment from her after the break up.

 

In this case, my "ex" has not contacted me once in 4 months aside from what I can arguably say are throwing breadcrumbs my way in the form of third party invitations to crew parties....

 

I wonder if I should just let her go completely. My friends seem to think I dodged a bullet by her leaving me....

 

She was an amazing woman though....and our chemistry was off the charts. Ugh...

[Downtown]

I actually suspected that she was Bipolar rather than having BPD.

Perhaps so. Your description of her behavior, however, seems closer to BPD traits. There are several clear differences between the two disorders. Bipolar mood swings are very slow because they are caused by gradual changes in body chemistry. They are considered rapid if as many as four occur in a year. In contrast, four BPD mood changes can easily occur in four days. BPD rages, for example, typically last about 5 hours.

 

A second difference is that the onset is very different. Whereas a bipolar change may occur over several weeks, a BPD change typically occurs in less than a minute -- often in only 10 seconds -- because it is event-triggered by some innocent comment or action. This seems to be the kind of mood change you are describing -- one that changes in a minute or less.

 

A third difference is that, whereas bipolar can cause people to be irritable and obnoxious during the manic phase, it does not rise to the level of meanness you see when a BPD is splitting you black. The difference is huge: while a manic person may regard you as an irritation, a BPD person can perceive you as Hitler and will treat you accordingly. This is why meanness and vindictiveness are a hallmark of BPD. Clearly, the way your ex treated you was very mean.

 

Finally, a fourth difference is that a bipolar sufferer -- whether depressed or manic -- usually is able to trust you if she knows you well. Untreated BPDs, however, are unable to trust -- even though they sometimes may claim otherwise. This lack of trust means there is no foundation on which to build a relationship. You did not say anything, however, to indicate whether your ex has a trust issue or not.

[NickFrescia]

Downtown, thank you so much for your post. I feel some closure knowing this. What are the chances of both my ex's most likely having BPD. Wow. They both had traumatic lives (particularly childhoods).

 

Anyway to answer your question, I am unsure if my ex trusted me but the fact that she felt I would sabotage her with our work crew when she broke up with me indicates that she did not trust me towards the end. She definitely assumed the worst about my intentions.

 

She would easily get offended or insulted by even the most innocuous comments (even during our honeymoon phase). I never knew what irritated her but towards the end, literally everything I said was a constant irritation. It's like she hated me. When I told her that I didn't appreciate her being so harsh with me at work, she thought I was overreacting....

 

She also had enormous control issues...had to be in control at all times and was micro-managing everything. I imagine a relationship with her, she would have been wearing the pants at all times and I would have been steamrolled.

 

Do you think, once she snapped out of her BPD rage that she may have felt differently about me and maybe realized she went way over the line? Or are they completely black and white in their thinking? I ask because her behavior was just so over the top and outlandish in reaction, it was like a dr. jeckyl/mr. hyde meltdown.

 

If she indeed had BPD (which I now suspect strongly reading your post)....I am so thankful that this painful experience was nipped in the bud. She even told me in our last phone call that she didn't want to string me along and that it would be manipulative, so perhaps even in her anger...she was only revealing her true feelings.

[Downtown]

What are the chances of both my ex's most likely having BPD.

Because we are not professionals, we cannot say whether your ex "has the disorder." What we do know, however, is that everyone occasionally exhibits all nine BPD traits (albeit, at a low level if they are healthy). At issue, then, is whether she has such traits at so strong a level that they undermine her ability to handle intimacy and sustain a LTR. You are capable of spotting the red flags to make that decision, as I explained earlier.

 

If you decide that you were dating two BPDers in a row, the first thing to consider is whether you have traits of being an excessive caregiver -- as I do. Caregivers like me are very attracted to people who project vulnerability and seem to be victims -- because it suggests they may desperately need us. Indeed, we caregivers have difficulty feeling like we are truly loved if the person does not desperately need us (hence, our attraction to emotionally unstable people). That is something for you to consider. I am hesitant to suggest it only because, given your avoidant traits, you likely are already overanalyzing everything about yourself. I hate to add anything to your already too-long list.

I am unsure if my ex trusted me but the fact that she felt I would sabotage her with our work crew when she broke up with me indicates that she did not trust me towards the end. She definitely assumed the worst about my intentions.

Clearly, she did not trust you.

She would easily get offended or insulted by even the most innocuous comments (even during our honeymoon phase).

That's why the most popular BPD book (targeted to the partners) is called "Stop Walking on Eggshells."

Do you think, once she snapped out of her BPD rage that she may have felt differently about me and maybe realized she went way over the line? Or are they completely black and white in their thinking? I ask because her behavior was just so over the top and outlandish in reaction, it was like a dr. jeckyl/mr. hyde meltdown.

A high functioning BPDer typically does black-white thinking only when stressed, as I understand it. Yet, as you saw with your ex, any time you brought up an important issue, her anger would be triggered within seconds. So, as a practical matter, she would revert to B-W thinking every time you wanted to discuss anything of any consequence.

so perhaps even in her anger...she was only revealing her true feelings.

You likely were seeing her "true feelings" regardless of whether she was splitting you white or black. What you saw were her feelings at that point in time even though it was only a subset of her feelings. Although BPDers have strong mixed feelings about people -- as all of us do -- they cannot tolerate feeling conflicted or ambiguous. They therefore tend to be in touch with only one set of feelings at a time. And, because those feelings can change on a dime, it really doesn't much matter what her feelings were toward you the last time you saw her.

[nyc_guy2003]

I just find it a little odd that you refer to this woman as your "ex" even though you've never even touched, held hands, kissed, had sex, seen each other naked, been to each other's houses, etc. Kind of similar to the woman you were in a "relationship" with on the internet that you never actually met. I'm not trying to be a d!ck but these sound more like obsessions/addictions/fantasies than actual relationships. The quicker you realize that the easier it is to let go, I think.

[NickFrescia]

I just find it a little odd that you refer to this woman as your "ex" even though you've never even touched, held hands, kissed, had sex, seen each other naked, been to each other's houses, etc. Kind of similar to the woman you were in a "relationship" with on the internet that you never actually met. I'm not trying to be a d!ck but these sound more like obsessions/addictions/fantasies than actual relationships. The quicker you realize that the easier it is to let go, I think.

 

NYC guy, cultural differences bro. I know it's hard to get but from where I come from, such things are perfectly normal where contact between men and women are limited. I don't know what to call her, or this sham of a "friendship". I guess you could say it was an "almost-relationship". All I know is that I met her, we became friends and were extremely attracted to each other...and that the lines between friendship and romance kept getting blurred. It's like we couldn't just be friends and thus I assume she implemented NC as a way of distancing herself from me since she didn't want a relationship. Why it is so jarring to me is that we went several steps forward (confessing our feelings for each other, talking about our future, discussing dating)...and then out of the blue she just begins to distance herself and loathe me. The shift from being totally into me for 3 months and then hating me randomly after an argument was just bizarre. She changed on a dime.

 

I am sure there are women that you have not had sexual contact with, perhaps a good friend that you care for and romantic feelings were developing but you never acted on them. Perhaps this is such a case. When people are infatuated with each other, they release a hormone called Oxytocin which intensifies those romantic "feelings"....aka the honeymoon phase. I guess going no contact or falling out with someone during that phase can be difficult because of that. Perhaps that is why I am still mulling this crap in my head.

 

Downtown: Thank you once again for your detailed response. I got involved with her and my long distance "ex" exactly because of their past history. I sympathized with them and wanted to take care of them. I think this is what draws me to women unfortunately. I was so emotionally drained from my LTR that I didn't date for several years. I met her in person recently and she did not particularly like me much. Basically blamed me for leaving her in her time of need even though I gave her everything I had emotionally. It was always about her needs and what she wanted, a completely one-sided relationship.

 

In essence, that was what was being replicated with my recent "ex" (don't know what else to call her). I feel really used....like she used my compassion and once she didn't need me, flung me out like trash.

 

I figure if you really like someone, that you'll work out your issues but this woman literally just made up her mind one day and decided that nothing will ever happen with us and that we should go no-contact. No discussions, nothing.

 

Reading up more on BPD, she is definitely a high functioning BPD and the month this breakup happened she was under a lot of stress. Her ex-husband had contacted her apparently and she told me her head was mixed up and feelings conflicted. I think for the most part she was able to control her minor mood swings but in that last month we worked together, she just became a totally different person. It was a 30 day bitch fest with me stuck in the middle walking on eggshells. The cruelty of her words and behavior were shocking. How does someone go from being so sweet and angelic into a completely abusive person? her mood swing lasted until I left work completely. My co-workers told me she was back to her old self once I quit.

 

Anyway, I assume from what you said that whatever she said in our last conversation is essentially "heat of the moment" stuff that could be entirely different from what she feels now towards me (i.e. she may not think or have the same intensity of her feelings as before)?

 

How do you think she views this no contact? It's been 4 months and I basically disappeared off the face of the earth. She was extremely pissed that I quit (probably because I think on some level she wanted me around even if she did not want to date me).

 

As I mentioned before, I suspect she figured I would call her and beg even though she broke it off with me. Do you think she has completely forgotten everything (basically like I never existed to her?) since it was a short term relationship...we knew each other for 5 months and then I disappeared. I hear for people with bpd, it is out of sight out of mind. I don't think she is dating anyone though. I was her first date since she divorced from her husband . BPD'ers supposedly keep getting involved with people to take away the pain of abandonment (my LT was involved with 6 men after our breakup within a span of 1 year)...but this woman is hesitant to getting involved with anyone imho. I guess she probably just expresses certain aspects of BPD strongly...perhaps not a full-on BPD.

 

One other thing, I feel like on some level...I was addicted to the way she made me feel during the good times. The intensity of the initial stages was like a high....I have heard that this is common for "nons" and their attraction to a person with BPD?

Edited June 9, 2011 by NickFrescia

[NickFrescia]

double post

Edited June 9, 2011 by NickFrescia

[Downtown]

I got involved with her and my long distance "ex" exactly because of their past history. I sympathized with them and wanted to take care of them.

Like you, I am a caregiver who finds vulnerability to be "catnip."

How does someone go from being so sweet and angelic into a completely abusive person?

Why do you expect her to do otherwise? If she has strong BPD traits -- as seems likely -- her emotional development was frozen at about age 4, leaving her reliant on black-white thinking and a few other primitive ego defenses. Black-white thinking, almost by definition, results in "being so sweet" one day and "completely abusive" the next.

I assume from what you said that whatever she said in our last conversation is essentially "heat of the moment" stuff that could be entirely different from what she feels now towards me (i.e. she may not think or have the same intensity of her feelings as before)?

Yes, it could be she has split you white by now. Or it could be that she split you black permanently. An unstable woman does not even know HERSELF how she is going to feel about you next week. So there is no way for you to know. Please let it go, Nick.

How do you think she views this no contact?

More important, why would it matter? No matter how she views NC, her view will change and, when it changes, it does not do so in a moderate way. Instead, it goes from one polar extreme to the other. Again, I suggest that you let it go.

Do you think she has completely forgotten everything (basically like I never existed to her?)

Generally, BPDers remember events and places and people. Yet, the stronger their BPD traits, the more they lose touch with the past good feelings. That is, their emotional memory tends to be very short and is dominated by whatever feeling they have currently. This is why it is impossible to build up a store of good will with them on which you can draw during the hard times.

I hear for people with bpd, it is out of sight out of mind.

It is my understanding that, for a substantial share (perhaps most) of BPDers have an object constancy problem, as you describe. A BPDer friend of mine says, however, that she and many other BPDers do not have that problem.

I was addicted to the way she made me feel during the good times. The intensity of the initial stages was like a high....I have heard that this is common for "nons" and their attraction to a person with BPD?

Yes, absolutely. When a BPDer is good, she is very VERY good.