Author sungirl Posted June 9, 2011 Author Posted June 9, 2011 I really appreciate all of your views on this topic. I agree that it is the betrayal, disrespect, etc that really has me baffled. One other thing though is that our daughters are 24 and 26. My husband was seeing the "sex worker" who is 24. Same age as one of his daughters. This really bothers me also, when I see young people, it makes me think of my girls. Our daughters absolutely adore their dad and say they can't find good boyfriends because when you have a dad this perfect, there aren't many that can treat you as well. I haven't told the girls about this because I know it would hurt them so bad, and it would be something they would have to carry with them through life. I just don't want to do that to them. My husband is not with government or military. We live in Canada. He still has a fulltime job in the town we live in, but this was a national professional org and he was the president of it. He quit because I said he couldn't travel so much ( 10 days a month) because this is where all this was happening. It was his job of a lifetime, and he's feeling depressed about it now, but he screwed it up for himself, big time. This is not like having another man buy me something. It is like meeting a guy in a bar, going with him, having him feel me up and give me an O, and not really know his real name. I found out about it by viewing an email where he made an appointment. His coworkers suggested he give it a try because they were doing it. It took place in Montreal where it is a very European mentality and men do such things more often. I told my husband - You are not European. I think the worst problem I'm having right now is that he won't mention it anymore. It's the elephant in the room. We've talked about it for about 2 hours when it first happened. He says he can't deal with the shame and guilt, so he wants to act like it never happened. I'm sure he's having "movies in his head" about it often, and wishes he hadn't been caught. I think most men would love to have this experience, but they have the decentcy to never do it. For you men out there - If you had a chance for a happy ending massage, in a town far from where you live, if you knew nobody would ever find out about it, would you do it, for $80.00?
2sunny Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 It is a temptation and sometimes men that do this are taken there by friends. The women that did this is nothing but a number and there is no relationship, OW, or affair. Furthermore, I believe this places do a standard massage that simply includes the hand job at the end. I am not blessing this activity, but it could have been much worse. You will be OK in a couple of years. sheez, Pierre - this is backwards. her husband caused harm by betraying her! now he wants her to pretend that it never happened! to "act as if it never happened" is lying to self. she will be OK in a few years? no! that's not good enough. they haven't hardly had the chance to talk through things - "let's ignore it so it will go away" mentality isn't good enough here... it's not as though he had a piece of pie that was off his diet! HE did this - HE should be willing to own it - talk about it - go to counseling - ANYTHING his W wants to repair the damage HE caused! ANYTHING!
StoneCold Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 (edited) For you men out there - If you had a chance for a happy ending massage, in a town far from where you live, if you knew nobody would ever find out about it, would you do it, for $80.00? Thats a question better reserved for the sex worker....you'll get the truth from her....you wont get it from asking the guys....and trust me you are not going to like what she has to say, it will make you question the concept of marriage as it pertains to monogamy Edited June 9, 2011 by StoneCold
2sunny Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 I agree with the above. My point is that this guy was a great H and dad for 30 years and if there is one man in the planet that deserves to be forgiven that would be him. Suggesting divorce is insane. The other issue is that there is not a whole lot to talk about. I suggest the wife examines the entirety of the marriage and this issue. The guy was good 99.8% of the time. how does she know he was "a great H" if he was willing to keep secrets - and STILL is trying to act like he didn't DO this? there's no honesty and willingness to talk through her pain she's carrying around! i didn't suggest divorce - i suggested she take action - action to heal for herself. that's difficult to do when he isn't honest and doesn't want to discuss it... so he's essentially roadblocking her healing - and causing MORE harm to her. forgiven? how to forgive when the person pretends they never did it - and won't allow room to repair what they did wrong by correcting the action they did?
Spark1111 Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 My husband and I have been married for almost 30 years and I found through an email that he had been going for erotic massages when out of town at a certain business to a certain person. He says he only went twice. He says he has never done anything else before and we have a really good relashionship otherwise. He says that he got a nude on nude massage with happy ending (hand job). He could touch the woman and she was touching him with all body parts. I cannot get over this whole thing and have been going to counselling for two months, but not really getting anywhere. I'm just appalled at the whole thing. I'm thinking I just can't handle this betrayal. Some people (men) say this is not really cheating, but I feel it is. He said he would have continued if he hadn't been caught. Says he will never do it again as it has caused him so much grief. Comments? Hi sungirl! Sorry you are going through this. Welcome to LS! Infidelity and betrayal are whatever your spouse feels it to be, and this has hit you pretty hard. I understand. A breech of trust is a breech of trust, whether it be a ONS, a long-term affair, a sex worker, a co-worker. There is no quantifying pain for the betrayed. I told my fWS that for me it was a threefold process and it took me 3.5 years to finally come to a place or true forgiveness and healing. First I forgave the affair. That was pretty painful to do. Worse was forgiving the lies and deception needed to sustain the betrayal. That devastated me and wiped out all the trust I had in him. The third and hardest and longest part of the process was if I would ever respect him again. I wasn't sure I would get there and if I couldn't get there, well, we were done as I would never be married to a man I couldn't respect. Two months out is not long....It takes most 2 to 5 years to deal with the infidelity, restore trust, and successfully reconcile if both parties choose to do so. You are in the very early days. You are still grieving the honorable man you thought you had married and the marriage you two shared. Would you and he consider MC? Or, will he go to counseling to try to understand why he thought it okay to get a hand job while traveling on business? Because we all know he would just flip out if he ever discovered you had done the same under the justification of "what he doesn't know cannot hurt her." I think after infidelity all of us BSs are looking for reassurance that the cheating spouse is not only remorseful, but understands WHY they did it so we can feel reassured it will never happen to us again. Be patient with yourself and with him. But he needs to really did deep and understand why he almost, or maybe has, thrown away his entire life for a hand job out of town. Good luck to you both.
Toodamnpragmatic Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 But he needs to really did deep and understand why he almost, or maybe has, thrown away his entire life for a hand job out of town. May be another question to ask is what has happened in your lives that would lead him to have a Handjob???? Why on the Infidelity category is every post from an EA, to a strip joint visit and a private lap dance, to a kiss, to a Handjob to a ONS to a fullblown affair always painted with the same brush (divorce)?
OldOnTheInside Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 (edited) May be another question to ask is what has happened in your lives that would lead him to have a Handjob???? Asking the wife that question so soon, is a good way to get a right hook to the face... In fact she did ask him that, didn't get a very satisfying answer... Why on the Infidelity category is every post from an EA, to a strip joint visit and a private lap dance, to a kiss, to a Handjob to a ONS to a fullblown affair always painted with the same brush (divorce)? I can only think of one or two posters that throw the divorce card around everywhere. But let's not pretend that divorce isn't a potential consequence. Edited June 9, 2011 by OldOnTheInside
Toodamnpragmatic Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 Asking the wife that question so soon, is a good way to get a right hook to the face... In fact she did ask him that, didn't get a very satisfying answer... I can only think of one or two posters that throw the divorce card around everywhere. But let's not pretend that divorce isn't a potential consequence. Well she is the one that posted..... I just am always curious what leads people to these types of situations. Frankly outside those I call "serial" cheaters, I believe most men that cheat will tell you exactly why they did......
OldOnTheInside Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 Well she is the one that posted..... I just am always curious what leads people to these types of situations. Frankly outside those I call "serial" cheaters, I believe most men that cheat will tell you exactly why they did...... The right hook thing was just a joke if you didn't realise. Emotion is hard to convey in text form ya know. Anyway, she did talk to her husband, and he did tell her why. Judging by her reaction, it isn't neccessarily enough... The bolded bit I disagree with to a slight degree. Dishonesty is quite natural, and it is easy enough to find a way to justify (to yourself anyway, perhaps the spouse would disagree) why not telling is the better option. Evidently, people are able to find ways to justify the act of cheating to themselves right? Justifying dishonesty of the cheating is just the next step. Of course, the above paragraph is still only a generalisation but the points are valid I think.
Spark1111 Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 Well she is the one that posted..... I just am always curious what leads people to these types of situations. Frankly outside those I call "serial" cheaters, I believe most men that cheat will tell you exactly why they did...... Because they like to have cheap, anonymous sex with strangers????? I'm not getting your point here TDP?
OldOnTheInside Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 Because they like to have cheap, anonymous sex with strangers????? Sometimes the reason is just that simple... No complex backstory needed.
Spark1111 Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 May be another question to ask is what has happened in your lives that would lead him to have a Handjob???? Why on the Infidelity category is every post from an EA, to a strip joint visit and a private lap dance, to a kiss, to a Handjob to a ONS to a fullblown affair always painted with the same brush (divorce)? Oh, wait, are you someone who ALWAYS believes the stereotype that a man cheats because he doesn't get enough sex at home?
Toodamnpragmatic Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 Because they like to have cheap, anonymous sex with strangers????? I'm not getting your point here TDP? No..... Because there are cracks in the marriage at home..... Very few decide after 30 years "Heck I got a great happy marriage, I think I'm going to plop $80 down and get a hand job today".... He won't necessarily tell her the truth, but I'm sure things were not perfect at home...... But yes, probably uncalled for on my part, just tired of reading and seeing everyone pile on him.....
OldOnTheInside Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 None of us will ever know the "truth" about H. Unless somebody wishes to hunt this man down and extract his thoughts. Considering OP isn't even here to talk, I think speculation will be useless at the moment.
Stung Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 The female equivalent to this is allowing another man to buy something for you. That should put it in the correct perspective. Very interesting... and I agree somewhat. It would all depend on the people involved. But generally speaking... I can see the arugment That is possibly the strangest comparison I have ever seen anybody make or try to validate. A male acquaintance of mine bought me a cup of coffee the other day. Is that the equivalent to my husband whipping it out and giving a female coworker a facial? If you're sticking to old stereotypes, I could buy that a woman allowing another man to buy her something would equate to a man allowing another woman to cook something special for him, or something like that. A better equivalent would be the obvious turnaround, the husband buying favors for another woman. But really, the female equivalent of a man turning to another woman for fantasy and thrill-of-the-new complete with hands-on fully-nude sexual release is NOT having a man buy her a new pair of shoes, that's kind of crazy. For the record, no, my husband wouldn't be happy if some man was hovering around buying me things. Nor would I be happy to find out he was hovering around some other woman, and trying to buy her things. We would both be weirded out by it, either way. But we would both be far LESS happy if one of us was convulsing with orgasm under someone else's ministrations, capice? This is not like having another man buy me something. It is like meeting a guy in a bar, going with him, having him feel me up and give me an O, and not really know his real name. Agreed. As for what to do next, OP, there are so many complications every which way. I am not one to automatically shout "Divorce!" at this point--thirty years is a long time, and I believe marriages should be fought for and hard. However, his refusal to actually deal with it, to let you vent your anger and hurt, to work with you on healing--that would absolutely not fly with me either. How could he abuse your trust and hurt you so badly and then leave you to steep in the bitter aftermath all by yourself, without even casting you a lifeline? And really, IF there were cracks in the marriage they do need to be addressed along with this infidelity to facilitate the healing of the marriage as a whole, but it does NOT excuse his behavior. I am a good wife and a good mother, too, but occasionally my marriage hits a bump in the road, as they all do; if I have a fight with my husband, and I go out and meet a handsome stranger at a bar and end up in the backseat of his car making out with him for an hour and letting him put his hand up my skirt to get me off, should this be magically whitewashed away? Is my betrayal excusable just because we had an argument? I meet strangers every day who would be happy to get their hands up my skirt, and I have arguments with my husband at least once a month. Somehow I don't think people would be so understanding if I chose that particular route of self-soothing, however. Anyway, OP, nobody can tell you what to do, but in your shoes, I think I would insist on a temporary separation, and on attending marriage counseling together. I would probably also want both myself and my husband to be in individual counseling for a while. Your husband needs to come to terms with these events and why he chose them, neither of you can just sweep it under the rug and expect your marriage to heal. I also think you should strongly considering dumping your current counselor and finding a different qualified therapist who can understand why you might be a little traumatized that your husband paid a woman the same age as your youngest daughter to strip off her clothes, rub all over his naked body, and then give him a handjob. It seems incredible to me that a mental health professional would be surprised that you're having trouble just "getting over" that--even if that counselor has a different value structure, they should know better than to leave you feeling so unheard, so invalidated. That kind of invalidation just escalates feelings of anger and bitterness, they should really know better. I'm so sorry that nobody in your life seems to actually hear and care about your pain. I don't think you should be afraid to physically separate from your husband for a while, even though your daughters will obviously notice something is wrong. They are adults, presumably living on their own, and hopefully strong enough to learn that their parents are fallible, susceptible human beings and that marriages are not fairy tales. You can just tell them that, you don't have to go into details--but even if they do learn the details, it won't scar them forever, although it will give them a different perspective; and it won't be because of what YOU did, it will be because of what HE did. He tarnished his shining armor all by himself. Whatever you decide to do, OP, I wish you luck. If you still have nobody to vent to in your real life, I hope you will come back here. You need an outlet.
Author sungirl Posted June 10, 2011 Author Posted June 10, 2011 Thanks for all your help everyone. I hope we can get past this, but for me, right now, I really don't know if it's possible. My husband is a very quiet, reserved, person. He's never liked talking much, so I believe one of the main reasons we got to this place was his lack of communication. He oviously has things going on in his head that he didn't share with me and became more interested in porn about a year ago. He wasn't interested in me physically then, and I thought it was just because he was getting older (58) and couldn't perform much anymore. Well, I guess he was performing with himself and the massage girl. If he would have told me porn was more exciting than me, we could have had a good long talk about it. H will never be a talker, so I don't know where this will go with me just steeping all the time. He is going to counselling, but I hightly doubt he talks there much either, and it's mostly about his self esteem to make himself feel better. He should get a different counsellor.
Dust Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 Thanks for all your help everyone. I hope we can get past this, but for me, right now, I really don't know if it's possible. My husband is a very quiet, reserved, person. He's never liked talking much, so I believe one of the main reasons we got to this place was his lack of communication. He oviously has things going on in his head that he didn't share with me and became more interested in porn about a year ago. He wasn't interested in me physically then, and I thought it was just because he was getting older (58) and couldn't perform much anymore. Well, I guess he was performing with himself and the massage girl. If he would have told me porn was more exciting than me, we could have had a good long talk about it. H will never be a talker, so I don't know where this will go with me just steeping all the time. He is going to counselling, but I hightly doubt he talks there much either, and it's mostly about his self esteem to make himself feel better. He should get a different counsellor. Talking is over rated. I’ve been reading a book “how to improve your marriage with out talking about it.” The book was recommended by a poster on here actually. What your husband did was very rude though. You should decide what is best for you. Forgiving him should happen. You don’t have to stay with him though. The way I analyze what happened to you it is many fold. First what he did was cheating. Second it was sex. Third it was sex with a hooker. The only plus to it being with a hooker is less of a chance of him having any real care for her. The thing is he might have real care for her and its extra gross and insulting. He’s in worse position now then you. You have the knowledge of what happened. You should forgive him. You also should do whats best for you which very well might mean leaving him. It also might mean getting past this together.
Linda9999 Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 My situation is similar to yours. My husband started out viewing porn, then paying for sexual real-time chats, then signing up for SexSearch.com and other similar sires, them paying for sex with an escort, and finally to hiring a hooker off the street on a whim. He never did have vaginal sex though. And I've been told that getting a blow job from a hooker isn't really cheating also Anyway, when I found out I kicked him out on the spot. He also spent some time refusing to talk about what he did, wanting it all to just go away. But that will not work. Through IC and MC both he and I have come to realize that we MUST explore what happened. Things between us were bad before he made the decision to cheat - that's on me as much as on him. But him cheating - him making that decision - is 100% on him. We got back together after 5 months, and at a year and 3 months out from the first D day we're doing quite well together. We wouldn't be, though, if he wasn't totally transparent to me, doing the counseling, answering ALL of my questions - some of them over and over - and doing it all with an air of remorse and not an air of irritation.
StoneCold Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 (edited) That is possibly the strangest comparison I have ever seen anybody make or try to validate. A male acquaintance of mine bought me a cup of coffee the other day. Is that the equivalent to my husband whipping it out and giving a female coworker a facial? . Give me a break stung... we arent talking about a cup of coffe or a stick of juicy fruit and you know it so dont even try it.... If you're sticking to old stereotypes, I could buy that a woman allowing another man to buy her something would equate to a man allowing another woman to cook something special for him, or something like that. A better equivalent would be the obvious turnaround, the husband buying favors for another woman. But really, the female equivalent of a man turning to another woman for fantasy and thrill-of-the-new complete with hands-on fully-nude sexual release is NOT having a man buy her a new pair of shoes, that's kind of crazy. . women are by and large driven by material goods because they are symbolic of wealth which indicates a means to provide security...which is what women are by and large hard wired to seek.... its nature..... just like men are equally hard wired to seek sex; to spread the seed. Men spread the seed and women seek security to rear children....its why you and I are here right now having this discussion, its why protitution is always a money maker, its why men buy nice cars (to attract women), its why the "nice car" angle will work (not on all but it does work for many to varying levels), its why babies are programmed to be attached to the mother..... The level of gratification between the two is probably the same... and the way the other spouse will interpret it will be the same too.... an encroachment of territory which is seen as a threat. For the record, no, my husband wouldn't be happy if some man was hovering around buying me things. Nor would I be happy to find out he was hovering around some other woman, and trying to buy her things. We would both be weirded out by it, either way. But we would both be far LESS happy if one of us was convulsing with orgasm under someone else's ministrations, capice? . Ah see this is why women will always ultimately win the battle of the sexes.....its why I laugh when I hear people say we live in a "man's world"...think again its a womans world. Women ultimately call the shots, Men as just puppets...women get away with things that a man could never in a million years get a way with. A woman can seek that same level of gratification and fly right under the radar because in as much as we beleive women were the ones controlled....it was always the men that were the true targets Edited June 10, 2011 by StoneCold
PinkInTheLimo Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 How was your sex life with your husband before this happened? Are you in good shape or overweight? Not that not having a good sex life or you being in bad shape is any justification for this cheating (yes, it is cheating).
Toodamnpragmatic Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 How was your sex life with your husband before this happened? Are you in good shape or overweight? Not that not having a good sex life or you being in bad shape is any justification for this cheating (yes, it is cheating). Someone brought up the elephant in the room (or the OP).... It all comes down to sex and attraction and what you had prior to this happening. The OP did allude to it in her last post.
Memphis Raines Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 My husband and I have been married for almost 30 years and I found through an email that he had been going for erotic massages when out of town at a certain business to a certain person. He says he only went twice. He says he has never done anything else before and we have a really good relashionship otherwise. He says that he got a nude on nude massage with happy ending (hand job). He could touch the woman and she was touching him with all body parts. I cannot get over this whole thing and have been going to counselling for two months, but not really getting anywhere. I'm just appalled at the whole thing. I'm thinking I just can't handle this betrayal. Some people (men) say this is not really cheating, but I feel it is. He said he would have continued if he hadn't been caught. Says he will never do it again as it has caused him so much grief. Comments? yes, how big of a retirement account does he have? he'd still be doing it if he didn't get caught and he is concerned with the grief that it has caused HIM, not you. as if he wasn't selfish enough.
xxoo Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 He wasn't interested in me physically then, and I thought it was just because he was getting older (58) and couldn't perform much anymore. Well, I guess he was performing with himself and the massage girl. If he would have told me porn was more exciting than me, we could have had a good long talk about it. What happened when his interest in you dropped? Did that bother you, or were you relieved? I'm wondering why/how YOU didn't press the issue at the time. Is he interested in sex with you now?
Author sungirl Posted June 11, 2011 Author Posted June 11, 2011 What happened when his interest in you dropped? Did that bother you, or were you relieved? I'm wondering why/how YOU didn't press the issue at the time. Is he interested in sex with you now? When the interest fell off, I just thought he thought I was too old and he wasn't into it anymore. I didn't want to embarrass him because he couldn't get aroused, so I just left it. Didn't know the porn had taken over, and that's why he wasn't interested. He is interested now, but it seems fake, and he's having problems with it at least half the time. As to the weight, I am 5'5 and weigh 135. I was 122 when we got married 30 years ago. He prefers, 25, large breasts and tiny waists. He said that is what it would take to get him going (on porn sites). Nice aye?
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