Author Gissie Posted June 9, 2011 Author Posted June 9, 2011 Gissie and 2sunny, I see both your points of view and its a great discussion, its given me a lot of food for thought. Just one thing about who decides to end the marriage, sometimes its not up to the MM or the OW to bring the marriage to an end; come DDay sometimes the the person who makes the decision is the wife. Just saying......... Of course its not OW or MM to decide always- thats not the point in what Im trying to say at all. My point was when people claim other people "ruin" marriages. Well they dont. Its not like H is brainless and incapable to make decisions on his own and would have been completely happy in his marriage if this other woman wouldnt have came along and taken him away. OW doesnt know the wife and never made any promises to her. She doesnt owe her anything. H does. Its on HIM. What comes to me Ive made my point already on my personal improvements many times in this topic. I dont have to keep repeating it.
turnstone Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 Ok, there's no need to get angry, neither of you had mentioned the wife and I thought it was worth doing so. That's all. I can understand getting het up when one feels like one is having to repeat oneself all the time and you've made your stance very clear. I'm not asking you to tell it again. Back on topic - as far as not owing the wife anything. Personally, as a member of society, I feel that I owe it to everyone (including myself) to not act in any way that will cause suffering. I'm sure, at some level, everyone (who can) feels the same way. For me, the 'not owing the wife anything' seems a way to deal with the feeling of guilt that being an OW may bring.
Author Gissie Posted June 9, 2011 Author Posted June 9, 2011 Ok, there's no need to get angry, neither of you had mentioned the wife and I thought it was worth doing so. That's all. I can understand getting het up when one feels like one is having to repeat oneself all the time and you've made your stance very clear. I'm not asking you to tell it again. Back on topic - as far as not owing the wife anything. Personally, as a member of society, I feel that I owe it to everyone (including myself) to not act in any way that will cause suffering. I'm sure, at some level, everyone (who can) feels the same way. For me, the 'not owing the wife anything' seems a way to deal with the feeling of guilt that being an OW may bring. I am not angry , just a little frustrated because I dont feel were talking about same things. and my comment wasnt directed to you but some other previous comments There is a difference in opinion of caring about the W feelings..I understand many people feel its their job to think of everyone on this planet and its not wrong. and in ideal world it would be so. But being REAL..I think its totally hypocrite. My opinion is..if H wants to leave he will do so, wether OW was there or not. I have honestly always felt this way, not just because Im a fOW. But I can understand your POV
turnstone Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 I am not angry , just a little frustrated because I dont feel were talking about same things. and my comment wasnt directed to you but some other previous comments There is a difference in opinion of caring about the W feelings..I understand many people feel its their job to think of everyone on this planet and its not wrong. and in ideal world it would be so. But being REAL..I think its totally hypocrite. My opinion is..if H wants to leave he will do so, wether OW was there or not. I have honestly always felt this way, not just because Im a fOW. But I can understand your POV 'Job' - that term seems to be derogatory the way you're using it here as is calling me a hypocrite, of course. I feel that everyone benefits from each individual doing their best to not act in ways that hurts themselves or others. I readily admit that its a difficult thing to achieve. At the end of the day, we're all selfish in one way or another. But that doesn't make me a hypocrite - for that I would be saying one thing but making no attempt at all to do it. What do you think of exit affairs in the context that the MM will only leave if he wants, regardless of if he has an OW or not?
Author Gissie Posted June 9, 2011 Author Posted June 9, 2011 'Job' - that term seems to be derogatory the way you're using it here as is calling me a hypocrite, of course. I feel that everyone benefits from each individual doing their best to not act in ways that hurts themselves or others. I readily admit that its a difficult thing to achieve. At the end of the day, we're all selfish in one way or another. But that doesn't make me a hypocrite - for that I would be saying one thing but making no attempt at all to do it. What do you think of exit affairs in the context that the MM will only leave if he wants, regardless of if he has an OW or not? There are many men who want to leave but wont actually do so before they find a new partner. I do think its totally chicken s**t to do so.They should leave first and then start to pursue other people. But some people are not so strong. Some people are so afraid of being alone or what ever reason they might have. I have many examples from this happening. and not only men do it..some women do it too. My female friend was unhappy in her marriage and she cheated her husband for many many years with various men before she finally found one she left her husband for. and the H was always kind and faithful and understanding of her. Now she has been with her new man for 2 years and they have a baby coming and they are totally happy. When this xH is alone and miserable. Fair? Not really. But life isnt. The reasons for leaving are deeper than what actually happens. This friend of mine was unhappy for her own reasons (not because H did or said something wrong) and she was looking for a way out. The man that finally made her leave has little to do with it. Even though it could seem or it actually was an "exit affair". She was leaving anyway. As soon as she found someone to leave with. In my friends case, if they would have taken action in the marriage to correct was was going wrong early in their relationship..this probably wouldnt have happened. They didnt communicate. My friend was lacking love and attention and couldnt address her issues- instead started looking elsewhere. H probably noticed her being distant but thougt the problem would go away itself without him doing anything, by just being there. This was just example and can not be applied to all cases. But there always is more to it than whats on surface. What comes to OW/OM behaviour, how could I - as OW - improve myself on trying not to hurt anyone (meaning MM W) by not engaging in extramarital affair - when I dont agree I am the ONE hurting anyone? Me,- Im being real and saying the reason why I will never engage myself in anyone taken again is purely selfish. Because it will only make ME unhappy. Because I will not get what I want and deserve from that kind of relationship. and because I believe MM will mess it up on his own without me being or not being there.
turnstone Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 I'm well aware of what an exit affair is, I just wondered how you would equate them with the OW having nothing to do with whether the MM leaves or not. It seems far too grey an area to be so black and white, but there's no point in talking about it more than that, your mind is made up and I'm not wasting any effort or time on it. Just for the record, it seems more usual that the reason a person can't address their issues within their marriage is more to do with an inability to handle conflict than lacking love and attention. Oh and yes, I understand (for the second time) that you don't believe you're hurting anyone by being an OW. Its fascinating to see your reasons for that belief.
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