Ouroboros Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 Spanking the monkey? That would be animal abuse and animal abuse is wrong.
Mme. Chaucer Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 I will tell the whole story, from my point of view. I am a woman. What women respond to is playful teasing, I do displays of high value I could not care any less about this negging, An absolute turn off in every way confidence, I like it! masculinity I like it in some of its myriad of manifestations, and dislike it in others. But, I have been VERY attracted to beautiful androgyny, and so have many, many women (example: many rock stars). and unapologetic ownership of one's sexual desires That's good. And yes, women will pretend they like the "nice" actions, and maybe they do on a level consummate with liking a puppy dog or little boy. But they will not find these traits or actions attractive and will eventually LJBF the "nice" man in favor of the "mean" one. Not me. Of course, you might just be talking about interactions between people in their 20's in mainstream pick-up bars filled with Jersey Shore wannabes. That seems to be the demographic that this PUA rhetoric is aimed at. I assure you that once a woman with minimally normal self esteem gets into a relationship with a man, she will want to have demonstrations - often - that the relationship is reciprocal. That encompasses many "nice" actions on the part of the man, and from her as well.
Ouroboros Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 PUA I had to look up PUA especially since it is your favorite term. Prior to my search it sounded like something exuded out of an orifice.
Mme. Chaucer Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 I had to look up PUA especially since it is your favorite term. Prior to my search it sounded like something exuded out of an orifice. It's not my favorite term. I rarely use it (can you find other instances?) I never knew it existed, either, until I started hanging out here. Now I'm kind of sickly fascinated by the "movement" or whatever it is.
Mimolicious Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 So for a change, I think is time that YOU get abused... Let me slap you for such an ignorant comment.
O'Malley Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 I had to look up PUA especially since it is your favorite term. Prior to my search it sounded like something exuded out of an orifice. That's probably because the biggest proponents of PUA seem to be perfect azzholes.
Art_Critic Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 That's probably because the biggest proponents of PUA seem to be perfect azzholes. ......
samspade Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 But, I have been VERY attracted to beautiful androgyny, and so have many, many women (example: many rock stars). I would classify rock stars under displays of high value - which you said you couldn't care less about. It's also a form of risk-taking, which is inherently attractive to women. I know DHVs sounds crassly commercial - like a guy driving a Bentley or ordering Cristal table service to show off. That's not exactly what I meant though. Really it's about a man showing he is above the fray - and not looking to supplicate. His words and actions should not place his status below the female's. While I'll agree that this evens out over the course of a long term relationship, in the initial stages of attraction it is imperative that a man not lower his status and subjugate himself at the altar of Woman. Rock stars are great example of high status males. A man like Steven Tyler, ugly as sin, can probably still have his pick of a large pool of females. (I know - plenty of you will say "eww" but you cannot deny that many women have slept with him.) Women find him (or Mick Jagger, or Lenny Kravitz, or Elvis) sexy because he takes a risk through his performances, because he owns his sexuality and his style, and because they know he can take what he wants. The funny thing about rock stars (and to a lesser degree, actors) is that they can get away with androgyny and desperate, "nice guy" pleadings in their songs because they have more than made up for it in the status and risk-taking department. Non-celebrities must have much tighter game to compensate. Most regular guys couldn't walk around in spandex and glitter and say things like "you're my angel, come and save me tonight" to a girl - well they could, but they'd get nowhere. For the record, this is not about being a PUA. There just happen to be some unvarnished truths in the sexual marketplace, but not everyone is willing to face them. And I'm going to add one more thing - with all due respect. What women say they find desirable is often incongruous with their actions. So while I respect your opinions, I would never, ever take what a female has to say at face value when it comes to attraction. You may be an exception, I don't know, but it's a rule of thumb and a sound one. A woman's actions are a far better indicator than her words.
zlatnapolja Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 Your thoughts are a little rough and abstract, but the general theory is true. Only problem is, your terminology is way off. "Nice" and "mean," subjective though they may be, don't tell the whole story. What women respond to is playful teasing, displays of high value, negging, confidence, masculinity, and unapologetic ownership of one's sexual desires. What repels women is supplication, excessive attempts to buy her affections (think flowers, dinners, chocolates), desperation, attempts to ingratiate one's self disingenuously (think wuss new age men who pose as feminists), and of course disowning one's sexual desires. These and many other traits are lumped in with "nice." And yes, women will pretend they like the "nice" actions, and maybe they do on a level consummate with liking a puppy dog or little boy. But they will not find these traits or actions attractive and will eventually LJBF the "nice" man in favor of the "mean" one. Unfortunately, the details in this age-old debate get glossed over with the simple terms "nice" and "mean" or "jerk." Goes way beyond that. There is nothing "nice" about pretending you want to "be there" for her and listen to her problems, when deep down you want to nail her like all the other guys. There is nothing "nice" about surrendering your masculinity in an attempt to attract a female. And there is nothing to be gained in complaining about it. Women don't like it when a guy is to 'nice' in the beginning, because it makes a girl feel like he would do it for any woman (succesfully or unsuccesfully, doesnt matter) and that doesnt make her feel special. Besides it comes across as having no selfesteem if you give everything right away. However as the relationship developes, women love it when youre being 'nice'. Just dont ever act desperate or like an idiot. Women don't like abuse, never! Even if they respond to it, doesnt meen they like it, its just meens they have low selfesteem. dont act ignorant, it can make you end up in jail...
Mme. Chaucer Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 Quote: Originally Posted by Mme. Chaucer But, I have been VERY attracted to beautiful androgyny, and so have many, many women (example: many rock stars). I would classify rock stars under displays of high value - which you said you couldn't care less about. It's also a form of risk-taking, which is inherently attractive to women. Regardless, I just used the "rock star" example to show how sexy an androgynous person can be. True, they live high. Believe me or not, though, I and many of my girlfriends have been quite gaga over "beautiful" boys in my younger days. They were compelling and magnetic - and not "masculine." Also, in my particular circle in college and out in our social world, there was a very high incidence of women / girls falling badly for guys who were gay.
Author johan Posted June 8, 2011 Author Posted June 8, 2011 Nice to see this thread still kicking. In case anyone was wondering, I was just being satirical in the initial post. Not serious.
Woggle Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 I would not go this far but quite honestly from what I see men who treat women this way tend to do much better in the dating world and are treated much better by women. I am just telling what I observe.
Untouchable_Fire Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 Nice to see this thread still kicking. In case anyone was wondering, I was just being satirical in the initial post. Not serious. Personally I think you did a bad job explaining HOW you abuse these women. I originally had the image of you throwing your wallet at them. Maybe hitting them softly with your credit card. I can imagine many women liking that type of abuse.
tinktronik Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 Why must everything be so black and white? Surely there's somebody out there who can come out with guidelines on how to be a balanced abuser. Ghengis Khan managed it effectively for a while.
Author johan Posted June 8, 2011 Author Posted June 8, 2011 Why must everything be so black and white? Surely there's somebody out there who can come out with guidelines on how to be a balanced abuser. I missed this yesterday. I think it's a brilliant idea. A real man will be able to abuse in a balanced kind of way. Surely there must be such a man here who can come and enlighten us with a long, detailed guide. And it would be helpful if he could keep a link to it in his signature for easy reference. And so he can take credit where it is due. Ghengis Khan managed it effectively for a while. He is one to be admired. He had a whole harem, so he must have been abusing right.
Ouroboros Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 It's not my favorite term. I rarely use it (can you find other instances?) I never knew it existed, either, until I started hanging out here. Now I'm kind of sickly fascinated by the "movement" or whatever it is.I only recall you using that acronym or you were the only one to stick out. I would do a search to see if my mind is simply over exaggerating things but I believe the engine doesn't allow three character searches. That's one thing I hate about vBulletin. The only other time I have seen pick up artist used otherwise was for a mtv or vh1 reality series a couple years ago. It was about a guy in a furry mad hatter style top hat who would advise men with dating difficulties on how to woo ladies. Nice to see this thread still kicking. In case anyone was wondering, I was just being satirical in the initial post. Not serious.And I believed you all this time. I feel so mislead. I don't know who to trust anymore. I feel like I have run out of faith.
Mme. Chaucer Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 I want to be abused and it's no secret. I get my quota here on LoveShack.
xisnotx Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 In general, in my experience, op is true. I think of it from there perspective. If you do stuff that is "mean" from their perspective they start thinking about how you are a jerk. It gives them an excuse to leave you... But if you are good, you can make it up to them somehow. Then they think you are "being romantic" when really you are just apologizing for being rude. Then they start telling their friends about how "he's a jerk sometimes, but he's my jerk and fundamentally he is a good guy...the rest of you just don't understand." I try not to do this..but this is just how I am naturally. I feel bad about it sometimes..
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