khria Posted June 6, 2011 Posted June 6, 2011 my feelings changed pretty drastically when I actually saw some of the sites he visited. Classic story: I was borrowing his computer, and numerous sites/pics came up in the History bar. Judging from content, he seems to have an Asian fetish, and as an Asian American female I don't accept stereotypes about submissive 'Asian women', so this upset me. I didn't expect it to, but it does. Chalk it up to feeling like he doesn't see me as an individual, but as a fetish or exchangeable set of body parts in some extended fantasy.. I just had a really strong negative reaction to this and am not sure about what to do now. Some context: My bf and I have been together for over a year. I knew he used porn pretty heavily in his single days (like paid for it on the inet, had sex-chats with girls online which he never met, and used to have lots of saved material to his computer of the porn he liked, etc.), but he's told me that he's minimized since we started dating. I believed him, and never really suspected this would be a problem. He actually gave me the impression that 'now that he has me' he doesn't really need it all that often, so I was under the impression he has a 'take it or leave it' view of the stuff. I'm starting to think that he needs this on a pretty regular basis--fine, but I feel like he hasn't been entirely honest with me. Also, I'm not opposed to porn on 'moral grounds,' either, and wouldn't ask him to stop using it for me. I've read both anti-porn and pro-porn arguments, and I consider myself an open-minded person about the topic. So, I'm not taking the 'moral' high ground... but I'm just uncomfortable 1) with feeling like my partner has 'lied' about his use and downplayed the reality, 2) with some of the racial/stereotypes in some of the stuff he uses, and 3) the possibility that, judging from his past use, this will develop into a problem or habit. Any advice. Thanks in advance.
EasyHeart Posted June 6, 2011 Posted June 6, 2011 Porn is fantasy, and almost all men are able to separate fantasy from reality. I love watching superhero movies, but I've never worn a cape or built an iron suit. Don't over-react and let the poor guy have his normal, healthy fantasy life.
TheLawmaker Posted June 6, 2011 Posted June 6, 2011 I agree with EasyHeart. I am not in love with the porn girls I jack off to. In fact, I masturbate, cum, and then that's it. They fit the part physically, but emotionally I would need more. My favorite pornstar might be horrible in bed!
OliveOyl Posted June 6, 2011 Posted June 6, 2011 my feelings changed pretty drastically when I actually saw some of the sites he visited. Classic story: I was borrowing his computer, and numerous sites/pics came up in the History bar. Judging from content, he seems to have an Asian fetish, and as an Asian American female I don't accept stereotypes about submissive 'Asian women', so this upset me. I didn't expect it to, but it does. . So, I'm not taking the 'moral' high ground... but I'm just uncomfortable 1) with feeling like my partner has 'lied' about his use and downplayed the reality, 2) with some of the racial/stereotypes in some of the stuff he uses, and 3) the possibility that, judging from his past use, this will develop into a problem or habit. Any advice. Thanks in advance. He has an Asian fetish but at least you are Asian-American. My ex had an Asian fetish (which he even admitted to) and I am not Asian. Didn't make me feel so good.
Author khria Posted June 6, 2011 Author Posted June 6, 2011 OliveOyl: I'm not sure these things make anyone feel good. I can't say it's exactly fun feeling like my partner is into a set of 'traits' or stereotypes. Don't all women want to feel like their partners love them for their uniqueness and individuality? This definitely doesn't feel like a positive on my end. Sorry to hear about your ex.
EasyHeart Posted June 6, 2011 Posted June 6, 2011 For me, at least, the porn I like is stuff that I have no interest in doing in real life. It's an outlet for fantasy. If my girlfriend looked at the porn I enjoy and decided to try and make me happy by surprising me with my porn fantasies, I would freak out and say, "Ewwww! Gross! What are you doing?!? Stop that!!!" I only know how I think, so other guys may be different. But I think it's a mistake to look at a guy's porn stash and think "That must be what he expects from me". Porn == fantasy, you == reality.
Author khria Posted June 6, 2011 Author Posted June 6, 2011 Thanks for the responses, Easy Heart. Feel free not to answer, but would you be open to sharing some of your experiences/fantasies with a girl? Why wouldn't you want your gf to participate in that with you? (because I think this is what makes some women anxious. They start to wonder why there are certain parts of their bf's sex-life that are off limits or that they aren't invited into for some reason..)
good_vibes Posted June 6, 2011 Posted June 6, 2011 Well, in a way to I would think it worse if he had an Asian fetish and you were not Asian. Still, I would not date anyone with regular porn usage, but that's just me. On the other end of the spectrum, I have friends that watch porn with their boyfriends. You have to decide what is right for you and what you are comfortable and stick with that. I knew a person one time that dated a guy that was into porn, he also occasionally went to strip clubs. She never agreed with any of it but went along with it b/c she thought he loved her, he would say the same, I love you, not those girls. They got engaged and the problem got worse, he was spending a lot of money on it, and when they would fight... guess where he would go. They ended up breaking up in the end. Of course that is just one horror story but everyone just needs to decide what they think is OK and what they think is not.
EasyHeart Posted June 6, 2011 Posted June 6, 2011 Thanks for the responses, Easy Heart. Feel free not to answer, but would you be open to sharing some of your experiences/fantasies with a girl? Why wouldn't you want your gf to participate in that with you? (because I think this is what makes some women anxious. They start to wonder why there are certain parts of their bf's sex-life that are off limits or that they aren't invited into for some reason..)Sure, I always share my sexual interests with my lovers. I think it's perfectly normal to share those sorts of things as you grow closer. And sometimes you'll find that you're sexually incompatible with someone, and that's okay -- it's no different than having different ideas about kids or money or jobs. But porn isn't reality, and I think most men realize that. I may read/watch some porn and think "Wow, that's wild" or "She is soooo hot!", but that doesn't mean I want to do it in real life and it certainly doesn't mean I want to meet (or date!!!) that kind of woman. Maybe the best way to think about it is to look at female porn, by which I mean romance novels. Those books are all pretty much the same: the men are all professional athletes with a heart of gold, six-pack abs, millions of dollars and who dream of being poets or kindergarten teachers or charity workers (while still driving Porsches and living in mansions, of course). Those books just piss us off. Why? Because no man is like that in real life, and it makes us feel inadequate because we'll never be like that. But most women know that romance novels are fantasies, and they don't expect their boyfriends to actually be like that. So as long as you're not expecting your men to be like the heroes in romance novels, why do you think your boyfriend would expect you to be like a porn actress?
zedd Posted June 6, 2011 Posted June 6, 2011 OliveOyl: I'm not sure these things make anyone feel good. I can't say it's exactly fun feeling like my partner is into a set of 'traits' or stereotypes. Don't all women want to feel like their partners love them for their uniqueness and individuality? This definitely doesn't feel like a positive on my end. Sorry to hear about your ex. They want to feel that, but he loves YOU for your uniqueness and he doesn't love those girls in the movies. For guys, porn... is just a tool. Like all males from all species, they have the urge to reproduce and when they can't have sex, they jack off to it. They are (I could say, we are) just as emotionally attached to the content of the movie as we are to the brand of the paper tissue we like to cum into while watching it. Guys got sexually stimulated by what they see, this is how it works. You might also look at a sporty african/asian/caucasian man's ass, but would you start comparing its owner's inner qualities to your boyfriend's? I don't think so.
ascendotum Posted June 6, 2011 Posted June 6, 2011 You never hear of latino fetish or east euro fetish or mediteranean fetish or blond fetish or black man fetish (though you do get jungle fever) or anglo fetish for asian women who date caucasian men. One thing I found strange was how you saw porn sites featuring asian porn stars and as an asian girl you then use the term 'submissive 'Asian women'' to describe his taste.
heartshaped Posted June 6, 2011 Posted June 6, 2011 I understand and sympathize with you. There are men that seek out a certain race of women because that's what they are into or they find it exotic. I suppose there's nothing wrong with it, really it's just a preference, but that doesn't sit quite right with me either. Also, I have to ask do you feel like in the past he had a problem or that it's a problem now? Could you tell how frequently he's looking at these types of things?
Enchanted Girl Posted June 6, 2011 Posted June 6, 2011 Porn is fantasy, and almost all men are able to separate fantasy from reality. I love watching superhero movies, but I've never worn a cape or built an iron suit. Don't over-react and let the poor guy have his normal, healthy fantasy life. Agreed completely! And this is coming from a girl who dated guys on both sides of this issue. My current boyfriend and I watch porn together. We read naughty stories sometimes, too, and we listen to recordings too describing some pretty steamy stuff. And we both love it! I tell him dirty stories, too. I show him porn I like and all that stuff. You probably think that I'm just the type of girl who likes to do these things, but I didn't for a long time! In fact, I thought porn was evil for a long time. And a lot of that was because of my ex. He did not know how to separate porn from reality. He'd see some guy ****ing two girls at once and throw tantrums where he'd insist that if he wasn't allowed to **** me and other girls on a regularly basis that our relationship wasn't going to work out. I dreaded it every time he looked at porn because I knew he was going to be instantly unhappy about SOMETHING in our relationship again. Now, my current boyfriend on the other hand, I got into a relationship with and instantly felt weary about his porn usage. I asked him one of those questions that girls should never ask their boyfriend,"Do you think the girl's in pornos are hotter than me?" My boyfriend sucks at lying by the way. His response was,"No. Because they are fake and you are reality. And honestly, fakeness gets boring after awhile. I enjoy watching it with you, but that's because I'm getting to share it with someone. And I don't care about those women. I care about you." He's looked me in the eyes while we were talking about how hot some girl is WITHOUT me saying anything and told me that she had nothing on me and then has cummed while staring at me and not the porn. We have discussed how we both want a monogamous relationship and therefore when I watch pornos about threesomes with him (which I enjoy in fantasy but not in reality) we can both enjoy it without me stressing out. In fact, he told me before I even asked that porn is just his fantasy and it has no influence on reality. That I'm his reality and he loves me and all that stuff is just for fun. He has a healthy view. Don't assume that all guys have the unhealthy one. Only the *******s are that way. OliveOyl: I'm not sure these things make anyone feel good. I can't say it's exactly fun feeling like my partner is into a set of 'traits' or stereotypes. Don't all women want to feel like their partners love them for their uniqueness and individuality? This definitely doesn't feel like a positive on my end. Sorry to hear about your ex. I think you are viewing this all wrong. He DOES love you for your uniqueness. In fact, he's turned on by unique aspects of you. My ex had a foot fetish and he always told me I had beautiful feet and that he was lucky to have me for that reason. It meant he appreciated an aspect of me that most people look over. My boyfriend actually thinks asians are ugly. He tried to have a FWB relationship with one of them and was unable to get an erection because their appearance looked too childish to him. Are you really upset over the fact that your boyfriend sees your physical aspects as the hottest a woman can have? Because this is actually an advantage for you. I understand and sympathize with you. There are men that seek out a certain race of women because that's what they are into or they find it exotic. I suppose there's nothing wrong with it, really it's just a preference, but that doesn't sit quite right with me either. Also, I have to ask do you feel like in the past he had a problem or that it's a problem now? Could you tell h9ow frequently he's looking at these types of things? I think you have sort of a point. If he's talking all the time about how asians are so adorable and so submissive and demanding that you be the same way, then that's one thing, but if you jumped to all these conclusions just because he looks at asian porn, then that's another thing entirely. The problem isn't the porn, the problem is his attitude towards asian women. I'm bisexual and I look at asian women in porn. Not because I want some asian woman to be my submissive slave, but because asian people really know how to get some hot women in porn and the way they moan (in their foreign accents) is sexy and cute. So I think that his enjoyment of this could be fairly innocent.
Author khria Posted June 7, 2011 Author Posted June 7, 2011 Also, I have to ask do you feel like in the past he had a problem or that it's a problem now? Could you tell how frequently he's looking at these types of things? Hi Heartshaped. Well, it's complicated. For sure, he used to be a really avid collector, visiting paid sites, and even chatting with some of the girls (and other girls) he met online before meeting me. He says he's really cut down, and is no longer a part of all of the online forums he used to meet girls on. I'm trying to 'forget' this past, but at some level, I feel like people who developed ingrained habits like this... it's really hard to stop. I wouldn't hesitate to say that he had an addiction to cybersex, etc before meeting me. I think it's become normal nowadays to use the internet to meet girls, view porn, have explicit chats, etc. This makes it hard for me to be accepting of his current porn-use..
Author khria Posted June 7, 2011 Author Posted June 7, 2011 (edited) My current boyfriend and I watch porn together. We read naughty stories sometimes, too, and we listen to recordings too describing some pretty steamy stuff. And we both love it! I tell him dirty stories, too. I show him porn I like and all that stuff. We have discussed how we both want a monogamous relationship and therefore when I watch pornos about threesomes with him (which I enjoy in fantasy but not in reality) we can both enjoy it without me stressing out. In fact, he told me before I even asked that porn is just his fantasy and it has no influence on reality. That I'm his reality and he loves me and all that stuff is just for fun. He has a healthy view. Don't assume that all guys have the unhealthy one. Only the *******s are that way. So I think that his enjoyment of this could be fairly innocent. Hi Enchanted Girl. I see your point, and I'm happy for you that you got to move from hating porn to appreciating it with your bf. I've actually been open to using it with my bf,too, and we've watched certain things together (which I've suggested because they, for instance, present more empowering views of the female lead). So I've been there! I'm just unsettled by the fact that I feel, at some level, my bf hasn't been entirely honest with about his use. I got the impression that he had pretty much stopped because now he's with me, etc etc. Rude awakening to find all sorts of new porn on his computer. When we were talking about it later, he even told me that he chooses this Asian porn because it reminds him of me, and that he's so happy with me that he wants porn that somehow reflects his relationship! I'm sorry, but I wouldn't for a second believe that. "Porn that reflects your relationship" is also known as thinking of your gf, or asking her if it's ok to make pics etc. that he can use later, which he has never done. So, it's hard for me to accept that argument from him. I'm also not a near-underaged Lolita-schoolgirl, LOL, so I'm not sure how reflective of our relationship his choices are. I feel like he's making arguments for porn that he thinks I want to hear. I wish he'd be real with me. Like "yes, there are certain things I need to do on my own time involving pics of other naked women who I find attractive, and who aren't you." I don't know. I don't want to come off as being unreasonable about this; I've known about his porn collecting for a year; I just want him to be honest which I feel he's too afraid to be. This is not so much an issue over porn as it is an issue over his ability to be honest. I appreciate that he's trying to spare my feelings, but I feel that this is getting in the way of the kind of open and honest relationship that you're describing, Enchanted Girl. That sounds ideal. Edited June 7, 2011 by khria
utterer of lies Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 .... Oh the horror. You are exactly the type of woman that your boyfriend is into. Even when he looks at porn, he searches for women that resemble you. ...so why are you upset about this?
thatone Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 When we were talking about it later, he even told me that he chooses this Asian porn because it reminds him of me, and that he's so happy with me that he wants porn that somehow reflects his relationship! I'm sorry, but I wouldn't for a second believe that. "Porn that reflects your relationship" is also known as thinking of your gf, or asking her if it's ok to make pics etc. that he can use later, which he has never done. So, it's hard for me to accept that argument from him. I'm also not a near-underaged Lolita-schoolgirl, LOL, so I'm not sure how reflective of our relationship his choices are. I feel like he's making arguments for porn that he thinks I want to hear. I wish he'd be real with me. Like "yes, there are certain things I need to do on my own time involving pics of other naked women who I find attractive, and who aren't you." I don't know. I don't want to come off as being unreasonable about this; I've known about his porn collecting for a year; I just want him to be honest which I feel he's too afraid to be. This is not so much an issue over porn as it is an issue over his ability to be honest. I appreciate that he's trying to spare my feelings, but I feel that this is getting in the way of the kind of open and honest relationship that you're describing, Enchanted Girl. That sounds ideal. men are visually attracted. he doesn't likely think about any of those racial stereotypes that you do while he's looking for pictures and videos of asian women on the internet. all he knows is he likes how they look. which is why he approached you in the first place, he likes how they look so he likes how you look! what's so hard to accept about that? he is being honest. you're trying to put your thoughts in his head, and then frustrating yourself when it doesn't work and blaming him for it. if he were neglecting you in favor of porn? that's a problem. if he were spending hours a day looking through porn? that's a problem. if he were compensating for some missed experience he thinks he lacks with porn due to moral/religious/social fear or some such? that's a problem. 'this' isn't getting in the way of the relationship enchanted girl described, you are.
Sabali Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 As someone stated earlier, it is simply a fantasy. Not all fantasies become reality or is necessarily desired to become reality. How would you feel if the women he fantasized about were not Asian? It would probably make you feel worse. I think this is why many men feel that they cannot tell their girlfriends about the book on the bookshelf that you must slide backward in order to open up the cobweb-laced secret doorway that leads to long, spiral staircase ending in the dungeon of porn. I wouldn't worry about his porn habit unless it got in the way of his functionality.
Author khria Posted June 7, 2011 Author Posted June 7, 2011 (edited) men are visually attracted. he doesn't likely think about any of those racial stereotypes that you do while he's looking for pictures and videos of asian women on the internet. all he knows is he likes how they look. which is why he approached you in the first place, he likes how they look so he likes how you look! what's so hard to accept about that? There's a lot that's hard to accept about that. As an Asian female, my relationship to these images is, unfortunately, not neutral. This leaves aside the fact that a lot of porn, regardless of the ethnic content, makes use of some questionable images and practices surrounding the treatment of workers. I've left those ethical thoughts aside, however.. that's a much longer discussion. My concern is with the content of the images. These videos, whether my bf is aware of this or not, do carry some pretty problematic depictions of underaged, submissive Asian girls being done somewhat against their will by older men. I know that this is a classic staple-plot for tons of porn, but I don't think I'm wrong or mistaken for having a problem with that, not just the patriarchal/political messages (yes, I have some clear politics about this), but also the racial message that this sends people about 'passive and takeable' Asian girls and women. I love my bf, and I know he'd never want to do that, and that he's a good person who is has a social conscience about things like this. But I hope readers can see that, with my specific politics, it's hard for me to have a neutral opinion of his material. As I said before, we've watched movies with more empowering female leads (one in which the character was, yes, Asian!). But I don't think I need to explain why underaged/submissive/ethnic porn is going to strike me as problematic. Maybe this level of political argument is beyond the scope of this thread. But the fact that something is 'just a fantasy' and 'not a reality' isn't a strong enough argument to eliminate that, sure, even patriarchal fantasies can have problematic effects on relationships when the other partner finds them difficult at some level. For this reason, I can't read romance novels either: I don't accept the view of men that a lot of the mainstream lit peddles, and I'm not attracted to that. I'm learning that I can accept my bf (and others) who have certain kinds of fantasies. I'm also learning that this doesn't mean I have to stick around in a relationship where I feel uncomfortable by the message these fantasies are sending about my ethnicity. Maybe he doesn't share my politics, and is afraid to tell me what he really wants. That's something I need to work out with him, then. But I hope this clarifies why something that should be 'easy to accept' for some can actually be difficult for others. I'm appreciating the input, though: it's really getting me to clarify how I feel about this for the next time my bf and I talk. Edited June 7, 2011 by khria
thatone Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 is your issue really the porn? or is it that you are of different races? it doesn't sound like the porn is the root of the insecurity to me. it sounds like insecurity about racial stereotypes is the issue. do you have friends of different races, or is this guy the only non asian person you associate with?
Author khria Posted June 7, 2011 Author Posted June 7, 2011 (edited) is your issue really the porn? or is it that you are of different races? it doesn't sound like the porn is the root of the insecurity to me. it sounds like insecurity about racial stereotypes is the issue. Thatone, I think this is largely the case. I do have some issues with porn, but I knew he used heavily before he met me, and have been dating him for a year anyhow. As my OP says, it was seeing the material that really turned my stance of 'I can accept this (and even try to share it)' to 'wait a second, this actually really bothers me.' When I saw his choice material, it was no longer an abstract thing. No easy answers here, especially if at some level, this is really what turns him on. I want to be more understanding, but it's going to take me a long time and I may never get to a point where I can say porn like that is ok with me. I think we just need some time apart to figure this out. Edited June 7, 2011 by khria
thatone Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 (edited) well, i don't know the solution. i can't really relate never having been in an interracial relationship personally. i would suggest telling him honestly what you think, that it's not the porn, it's the racial stereotypes in the porn that bother you. it makes sense, he might be completely understanding and 'see the light' if you explain it to him that way. like i said, going by odds alone, it's very likely not the stereotypes that he's attracted to, it's just the appearance of asian women in general (dark straight hair, different eyes and facial complexions, etc.). after all, he told you basically that when you first confronted him about it from what you told us. don't rush to judge him without good reason. you have to talk about it honestly to figure it out. Edited June 7, 2011 by thatone
Scottdmw Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 Khria, as you found, this can be a tough issue. Porn can be very habit-forming for guys. Even if a guy wants to give it up, and even assuming he does not have an addiction-prone personality, it's not that easy. I personally think that porn is not particularly healthy for men nor their relationships. But, most men are into it too much to easily give it up. So, I do think you have to approach this issue with some understanding. If he's truly reduced his use for you, that's a good thing. Try to encourage him and show appreciation. Be understanding if he's not able to completely let it go. Realize that if he actually gives up porn completely it's comparable to a woman dieting and exercising and losing 6 dress sizes—it requires a major effort of will over time. You do have the option of course of ending the relationship and searching for a man who doesn't use porn, or almost never. Despite what people will tell you, they do exist. Scott
Dust Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 If you’re an Asian and he wanted to look at hot Asian women having sex in his porn chances are some dirty thing like “submissive” Asians would be said regardless. Not necessarily his fault. The thing is porn perverts a person. Its hard to resist but with a gf who regularly has sex with him (once a week or more) he should be able to do it. If he really needs to jack off even with that I recommend he do it from his imagination.
SomewhatExperienced Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 I'd say I have an "Asian fetish" as well, but it has nothing to do with the submissive stigmas surrounding it. I just think they're cute! But I see this as no difference as you having an interest in certain physical qualities of men. You may really like tall, Mediterranean men with big arms. Maybe you like average height white men with really thick staulky builds.... whatever. This doesn't mean that you wouldn't be happy with something else, and it certainly doesn't mean that you'd actually engage in a monogamous relationship with one just because of his appearance (I should hope not). The person would have to have a plethora of other qualities that are more important than just the way they loos for you to decide to be monogamous relationship with them. I'm sure your boyfriend feels this way about you. You may have sparked his interest because you're Asian, but it's your other qualities that drove it home. Just be happy that you can fulfill that side of his fantasy while still giving him all the other things he was looking for.
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