Being the OW Twice Removed

[MissBee]

Reading the forums, the typical scenario is a triangular scenario: the married person engaged in the affair, the unaware spouse and the outside person involved with the MP.

 

I suppose that is as straightforward as straightforward can be given the scenario.

 

It seems that generally there has to be some element of feeling special or exceptional present in order for an affair to persist. It is a linchpin in the entire scenario or else why bother? That is, the OW has to consider herself as special and adored as the wife or more special and adored than the wife in order to continue the relationship. Agree or disagree?

 

From my experience as an OW at one point, it started out with me not knowing his status at first, then finding out but persisting anyway. By then I was already falling and since he pursued me, I assumed I must be something special for him to go through the trouble, especially since we spoke everyday, he sent me gifts and all the wonderful boyfriend stuff and to top it off, we weren't even having sex so he didn't have that as an incentive! I knew little about his other relationship but concluded that it must not have been enough or else why would he bother? Or maybe I was just too awesome to resist I liked not knowing, the least I knew, the better and from the fact that we emailed and spoke on the phone daily for hours and things developed over time, after a year he told me he was in love and all this....I felt like it was an exceptional scenario. Certainly for me it was....NEVER did it cross my mind that I may be one of multiple woman. Unfeasible! How would he even have the time for that???!! One can only conduct 2 emotional affairs at a time right? Wifey and OW?

 

Anyway, that was 3/4 years ago, things ended and I still have love for him, we speak occasionally, he's no longer with the gf and while we had amazing compatibility, I do not desire to be with him like that BUT there is the nagging question: Was I the only one? Was he only involved with me because I was special and it was a one time thing or had he done this before, has he done it since? I do not want to be with him but somehow it still crushes my ego to think about him keeping another OW with me or him cheating on me with a woman other than his gf he already cheats on me with. I also find that if he were having sex with someone else, I probably wouldn't feel too bad but if he gave her time, gifts and so on as he did me, I would be even more upset...which is insane since he gave the gf these things and I somehow managed to accept it.

 

Is anything other than a triangle more of an assault to the sensibilities or is it that it makes the idea of being unique and special harder to internalize? Why would I be okay with him having a gf who he is still engaging in a relationship with but I'm not okay if he has another OW if he STILL gives me the same amount of time and attention?

I pose these same questions to you ladies....

 

If you were the OW twice, thrice, removed, as in, you were receiving all you're receiving now, you just now know that oh...including the wife, there is also another, would it make a difference to you, if so why? (Especially for the women who do not want him to leave the wife but want to maintain the status quo)

 

 

 

 

* I know there are also OM and you can chime in as well but mostly I see women on the forums sharing so I decided to gear it towards women.

Edited June 6, 2011 by MissBee

[Silly_Girl]

If I'd felt I was genuinely sharing him with ANYONE (whether or not he was married to them) I'd not have moved forward with the relationship. That's just me.

[mytwoworlds]

I have been in this messed up situation.

 

I was the OW thrice removed as you put it, so there wasn't only me there was 2 OW and his wife. I knew about the other 2 women (only through snooping on facebook) but they didnt know about me, until I confronted the one woman under a false alias on facebook and she thought I was his wifes 'psycho' friend being protective, and as far as I know he talked her into believeing that. Then i found out about OW no 2, who was an old school friend of his.

 

I was upset when I first found out about the 1st OW even though I am married and really had no right to be, but I was. We still carried on the PA. In time I came to know about the 2nd OW...again just through things said on facebook, and how his wife never caught onto any of this I shall never know. I was still seeing him when I knew about these OW, I got to a point where I thought I knew him better than the other two because I knew about them and they really didnt know about me. Writing it down....it sounds pathetic, it is pathetic.

[Woman In Blue]

From my experience as an OW at one point, it started out with me not knowing his status at first, then finding out but persisting anyway. By then I was already falling and since he pursued me, I assumed I must be something special for him to go through the trouble, especially since we spoke everyday, he sent me gifts and all the wonderful boyfriend stuff and to top it off, we weren't even having sex so he didn't have that as an incentive!

And THIS is what I'll never understand - even if I live to be 1,000 years old. Why would ANY woman, with any intergrity or self-worth at all, continue giving the time of DAY to a lying scumbag who has conned her from DAY #1 into thinking he's single and available? All you teach a man about yourself when when you do that is that you have zero self-respect and will accept any pitiful crumbs he has to throw your way. So in essence, you completely handed all control over to this jerk the SECOND you agreed to still keep seeing him after you'd found out that he'd conned you.

 

LOL - and the fact that you weren't having sex is EXACTLY why you were getting the gifts and the full court press wooing - the chase is sometimes the biggest part of the fun for these losers.

 

....NEVER did it cross my mind that I may be one of multiple woman. Unfeasible! How would he even have the time for that???!! One can only conduct 2 emotional affairs at a time right? Wifey and OW?

I'm going to assume you were extremely young when this happened, or you grew up very sheltered. Anyone who finds out that someone has LIED TO TO THEM right from the start - and then continued that lie, all for their OWN self-serving purposes, has already been GIVEN all they need to know what kind of a snake they're dealing with. Come on - this isn't rocket science!

 

Anyway, that was 3/4 years ago, things ended and I still have love for him, we speak occasionally

So you're 4 years older - and wiser - and still haven't realized what a greasy little weasel this creep is? Amazing.

 

Was I the only one? Was he only involved with me because I was special and it was a one time thing or had he done this before, has he done it since? I do not want to be with him but somehow it still crushes my ego to think about him keeping another OW with me or him cheating on me with a woman other than his gf he already cheats on me with.

So just to understand this correctly, YOU want to be the only one he conned and lied to and snuck around with because that will make you feel special? But if he conned other women and lied to them too, then you wouldn't feel special?

 

Why would I be okay with him having a gf who he is still engaging in a relationship with but I'm not okay if he has another OW if he STILL gives me the same amount of time and attention?

You were ok with him disrespecting you by lying to you from day #1 and CONTINUING the lie until it came to the surface, so why wouldn't you be ok with this crap, too? Again, it comes down to self respect.

 

If you were the OW twice, thrice, removed, as in, you were receiving all you're receiving now, you just now know that oh...including the wife, there is also another, would it make a difference to you, if so why? (Especially for the women who do not want him to leave the wife but want to maintain the status quo)

In your particular scenario, I would have expected it. This guy is the lowest of the low, so nothing would surprise me.

Edited June 6, 2011 by Woman In Blue

[mytwoworlds]

Sorry, I didnt even answer your questions

 

The contact between us changed, we used to text everyday and that went down to maybe 3/4 days a week, and then maybe 'see' each other once a fortnight as oppose to 1/2 a week.

 

Like I said, it hurt at first and then I think i got some sick buzz out of it knowing that these other 2 women didnt know about me but I knew about them and believed all the bull***** he was telling them.

 

I did not want him to leave his wife, I know her.

[katielee]

MissBee - not to t/j and I don't know how to PM here - but regarding your advice to the other poster two weeks from a year of NC - you sound very spiritual. Did you do any reading on this and if so, what books? Or, was it mainly IC? How did you get to this point.

[MissBee]

I think the manner in which I posted perhaps comes off as if I still have the mentality of the OW, but in reality I am posting it from the perspective I had at the time so that it is accessible and relatable to those currently in the situation, where people can give their honest response without it coming off as me being superior now that I am beyond that point.

 

It's written in a retrospective voice, with a tad of sarcasm about the feelings I had at the time and the mindset that was allowing me to engage in that scenario. But I can understand how it may not come off that way, especially if one hasn't read my other posts, which states my position consistently.

 

This is very interesting though, because now I get to see what it's like "on the other side". I saw women saying they felt attacked and so forth and I was like mannn whatever, you just don't want to hear the truth but now I realize it's really not what you say but how you say it and how quickly people get ready to type (myself included) without grasping the scenario...we just want to get our point (read condemnation) across but it's not an actual dialogue coming from a place of understanding ( I don't mean comisserating either).

 

Some of the stuff you're saying took a leap from what I actually said, huge leaps at that, connecting dots from A to Z when pieces were missing . Now I'm considering hmmm wonder if I've done that. I may have, but for the most part I am able to step outside of my perceptions and look at things from another's vantage point, regardless of if I agree or not, which is a superb skill to have. I do want to work at some point in the field of facilitating groups that empower women and I'm realizing that I can't bring my prejudices to the table no matter how absurd the tale. It's not for me to pat someone on the back and congratulate but surely telling them how absurd what they're doing is by essentially calling them stupid is not the way either. Like I said, I'm pretty sure I'm guilty of the same, I'm human but my purpose in life is to grow conscious and intentional and this surprisingly has helped me, kind of slapped me in the face and made me see what being on the other end of that is like.

 

I don't know if your intention was to "help me" or to scold me...I'd say it was the latter, but since I am no longer in such a scenario and have a full understanding of how people allow themselves to get to that place but can still reflect on how I was thinking at that point, it doesn't bother me. But I will say, were I to still be that girl, what you said would have no effect except to incite anger and put me on the defensive which essentially leads to nowhere.

 

This has inspired me to right a then vs. now post reflecting on my journey from that point to where I am today.

 

And THIS is what I'll never understand - even if I live to be 1,000 years old. Why would ANY woman, with any intergrity or self-worth at all, continue giving the time of DAY to a lying scumbag who has conned her from DAY #1 into thinking he's single and available? All you teach a man about yourself when when you do that is that you have zero self-respect and will accept any pitiful crumbs he has to throw your way. So in essence, you completely handed all control over to this jerk the SECOND you agreed to still keep seeing him after you'd found out that he'd conned you.

 

LOL - and the fact that you weren't having sex is EXACTLY why you were getting the gifts and the full court press wooing - the chase is sometimes the biggest part of the fun for these losers.

 

 

I'm going to assume you were extremely young when this happened, or you grew up very sheltered. Anyone who finds out that someone has LIED TO TO THEM right from the start - and then continued that lie, all for their OWN self-serving purposes, has already been GIVEN all they need to know what kind of a snake they're dealing with. Come on - this isn't rocket science!

 

 

So you're 4 years older - and wiser - and still haven't realized what a greasy little weasel this creep is? Amazing.

 

 

So just to understand this correctly, YOU want to be the only one he conned and lied to and snuck around with because that will make you feel special? But if he conned other women and lied to them too, then you wouldn't feel special?

 

 

You were ok with him disrespecting you by lying to you from day #1 and CONTINUING the lie until it came to the surface, so why wouldn't you be ok with this crap, too? Again, it comes down to self respect.

 

 

In your particular scenario, I would have expected it. This guy is the lowest of the low, so nothing would surprise me.

Edited June 6, 2011 by MissBee

[MissBee]

I have been in this messed up situation.

 

I was the OW thrice removed as you put it, so there wasn't only me there was 2 OW and his wife. I knew about the other 2 women (only through snooping on facebook) but they didnt know about me, until I confronted the one woman under a false alias on facebook and she thought I was his wifes 'psycho' friend being protective, and as far as I know he talked her into believeing that. Then i found out about OW no 2, who was an old school friend of his.

 

I was upset when I first found out about the 1st OW even though I am married and really had no right to be, but I was. We still carried on the PA. In time I came to know about the 2nd OW...again just through things said on facebook, and how his wife never caught onto any of this I shall never know. I was still seeing him when I knew about these OW, I got to a point where I thought I knew him better than the other two because I knew about them and they really didnt know about me. Writing it down....it sounds pathetic, it is pathetic.

 

Isn't it...

 

But what you're saying goes back to my idea that being special is a key ingredient in why affairs work and how one ends up holding up their end of the bargain as the OW, regardless of how illogical. Even though he had 2 other women besides you, you had to find a way to differentiate yourself from them by saying "Oh well I know him best". And in effect...that's the definition of delusion.

 

I think it is innate for humans to strive to be unique, even our idea that we're the most advanced species in all the Universe, we're very self-centered and even how we anthropomorphize animals and things and assume they have the qualities we do. As I said in my first post, although my stint as an OW is long over there is still an element of wanting to be special...wanting to believe that "Well I was the only woman he was involved with besides his gf because of my unique qualities"...is this true? It may be OR it may not be and when I consider that he may have been with others, it crushes my ego . I have no evidence of this though but when I entertain it as a likely possibility my body revolts against it...which proves to me that being special is the linchpin...otherwise it is pointless.

 

I would like to question him one day though about his position and what REALLY happened and how he processed things...but I don't think he'd be truthful, but if he were, I'd love to see how things were on his side and compare it to what was happening for me as you just don't know...I know what he SAID and did at the time...but being removed form it now would be interesting to look at it again and to hear the unabashed truth.

[MissBee]

This leads to another question:

 

If a man were to admit that, for example in his 15 years of marriage, while he loves his wife he is not inlove and has had several girlfriends from the 6th year on, would you engage with him as his current OW/gf?

 

 

Essentially, he is like a "single man" but with a "wife". Just like a single man may have a gf, it doesn't work and then when it is over he finds another at some point...this married man who finds it not feasible to leave for whatever reason, dates women in the same way.

 

If a single man tells you you're his 3rd girlfriend in 5 years I don't suppose it would seem alarming....but how would you react if a married man tells you honestly that you're his 3rd OW/gf in 5 years. Does it make a difference to you, if so, why? Would you be least likely to engage in such a scenario?

[2sure]

I have no idea if its better/worse to be OW#1, #2, or thrice removed or whether it should matter.

 

But I do have this thought from your post:

 

For a married man to convince any OW to have an affair of any kind with him....the first thing REQUIRED is that he make her feel special. So special to him that the affair is worth having even though he is married and a liar.

This does not necessarily mean he really thinks you are special.

 

You could have been special simply by being available to it. Special because for some reason he thought : Maybe she will.

 

And Ive been OW myself, Im not bashing just saying if your trying to decide to what degree which is worse: Its all shyte

[MissBee]

MissBee - not to t/j and I don't know how to PM here - but regarding your advice to the other poster two weeks from a year of NC - you sound very spiritual. Did you do any reading on this and if so, what books? Or, was it mainly IC? How did you get to this point.

 

I'll PM you

 

Just kidding...the PM feature is gone...that's weird.

 

What's IC?

 

Did I do reading on what you mean? Cheating? Or spiritual things?

Edited June 6, 2011 by MissBee

[MissBee]

I have no idea if its better/worse to be OW#1, #2, or thrice removed or whether it should matter.

 

But I do have this thought from your post:

 

For a married man to convince any OW to have an affair of any kind with him....the first thing REQUIRED is that he make her feel special. So special to him that the affair is worth having even though he is married and a liar.

This does not necessarily mean he really thinks you are special.

 

You could have been special simply by being available to it. Special because for some reason he thought : Maybe she will.

 

And Ive been OW myself, Im not bashing just saying if your trying to decide to what degree which is worse: Its all shyte

 

I concur.

 

I'm not trying to decide for myself what degree is worst...I'm trying to explore the idea of being special as a key ingredient in affairs. The different scenarios posed and whether or not someone would agree to it or would it change the game for them or how they would react (based on the perception of being more special or less special) is what I'm interested to hear people respond about.

[MissBee]

It is not rocket science, however this is difficult to visualize by folks that are needy and depend on external validation to feel good.

 

For reasons that are not clear SMOOTH CHEATING MM have a special antennas for women as described above.

 

Many OWs often say that MM pursued me therefore, I must be special and his wife must be awful. OTOH women that are happy on their own and with no self esteem issues feel like vomiting when MM pursues them. MM generally stay away from these women.

 

The charm of a smooth man may sound sweet to a needy woman and may raise flags to a confident secure woman.

 

It is that simple:p.

 

Thanks for the response. I definitely understand that but I am particularly interested in the nuances and personal views of why one would be an OW versus an OW twice removed and what makes the difference for them.

[Breezy Trousers]

I have no idea if its better/worse to be OW#1, #2, or thrice removed or whether it should matter.

 

But I do have this thought from your post:

For a married man to convince any OW to have an affair of any kind with him....the first thing REQUIRED is that he make her feel special. So special to him that the affair is worth having even though he is married and a liar.

This does not necessarily mean he really thinks you are special.

You could have been special simply by being available to it. Special because for some reason he thought : Maybe she will.

 

And Ive been OW myself, Im not bashing just saying if your trying to decide to what degree which is worse: Its all @#!*%

 

 

Good Lord. I wish I could have read that in 2008. Would have saved me at least one year of my life, I think. Very true in my experience.

[katielee]

I'll PM you

 

Just kidding...the PM feature is gone...that's weird.

 

What's IC? INDIVIDUAL COUNSELING

 

Did I do reading on what you mean? Cheating? Or spiritual things?

BOTH, i GUESS....

[skywriter]

MissBee,

 

My first thought is, that anyone who hasn't, found themselves involved, with a married or committed person, can't fully understand how it feels.It can happen to anyone, especially those who aren't looking for it. I definitly wasn't.

 

I say this because, I have had these exact same thoughts as you post in your original post.

 

It's kind of a relief, to know that others, have thought the same as myself. Not sure why....but it is.

 

Thinking about these possiblities, would cause me to raise the discussion with the MM. I never believed much of what he would say to me, so that never helped with the insecurities.

 

 

 

The only thing that might have helped, was when I became indifferent towards him, and began to pull away from the A. I had to because it was consuming me in so many ways I never expected.

Edited June 7, 2011 by skywriter

[MissBee]

MissBee - not to t/j and I don't know how to PM here - but regarding your advice to the other poster two weeks from a year of NC - you sound very spiritual. Did you do any reading on this and if so, what books? Or, was it mainly IC? How did you get to this point.

 

No I haven't had professional counseling.

 

I think I have always been spiritual but it was latent then 2.5 years ago a series of events happened (including a traumatic breakup) that caused me to question everything in my life. It started with me seeking answers about the breakup...to it opening a whole new level of awareness that 1. Things that happen to me and in my life are ABOUT ME, regardless of who else is involved. It's not for me to examine the other person's part but to see what message the Universe is giving me? Especially things that are repetitious. and 2.It became evident to me that things aren't random, haphazard events but serve a purpose.

 

I read A LOT of various material: from psych journal articles, to memoirs of women who went through some type of life trauma that spurred a 180, to books on spirituality and various spiritual concepts, learning about certain metaphysical things, reading lots of books and articles, practicing meditation, journaling, learning to listen to my intuition, exploring Tarot and dream analysis, just being an overall more conscious and aware person in how I was living my life and the choices I was making and where I need to be.

 

It's been a journey and it's still going on! I can consciously feel when I enter a new phase of the journey and this recent phase has been me becoming aware of the underlying issues I face that affect my romantic relationships...which stem from childhood. I wasn't fully aware of it before and now it's like a door has been opened to a new level of understanding in that regard. So for this leg I have been unearthing my subconscious beliefs about love, relationships, the patterns I have, the traits I have adopted from my parents, understanding fear of rejection, fear of abandonment, fear of commitment which lead me into reading a lot about cheating, infidelity and the like as those fears often factor into such situations.

 

I'm still processing everything and it's exciting because I feel like a snake that sheds it's skin every so often and gets a new one and then overtime I discover that WOW...I still have another level but with each time I feel myself becoming happier, more content, more aware, more understanding and just happy to know that every bad thing that happens, good can come out of it and things don't "just happen" but there's a purpose to it and I am a co-creator with the Universe in being who I need to be and having the life I want to have. I've grown in leaps and bounds in such a short time and for being still very young, and it's exciting to me and makes my life feel more purposeful, I am less easily discouraged, less likely to go down some wayward path, more hopeful and positive and just generally mentally, spiritually and emotionally more healthy, although I have not "arrived".

 

Hope this makes sense and answers your question a little (I wasn't exactly sure what you wanted me to say or if you were trying to ask me something even more specific).