fooled once Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 I am seeing more and more threads were the mistress/OW firmly believes all the words that flow out of a married mans mouth. They believe that he "never" talked to his wife about his past, his hopes, his dreams, his plans. WHY? Do you not realize at one time he courted her, he wooed her, he dated her. They spent countless hours together - during their dating time, engaged time, planning their wedding, their future. WHY do you think he wasn't talking to her? Same for sex. Do you really think they didn't have sex prior to marriage (I admit there is 1 girl I know who was a virgin at 27 on her wedding night, but that is rare nowadays). They probably were humping like bunnies at one point! My final thought ....... Something I have also seen a lot of lately " he pursued me". And....so what. Everyone has free will. Everyone has the choice of their behavior. My ex didn't want a divorce, but I did. Just because he didn't want it didn't mean I was going to stop with divorce proceedings. Own your part in the affair. If a MM 'pursues' you and you have repeatedly told him no and he won't comply with your request, file a protective order or a harassment charge. Hopefully, each of us take soothing away from each others experience and are able to help/advise friends who enter into an affair. Hopefully we (general we) can stop someone else from getting hurt from an affair. Love shouldn't be a hidden secret. Two people in love is a beautiful sight to see. Your happiness should not cause hurt, betrayal or deceit. If he wants to keep you a secret, kick him to the curb until he is willing to shout it from the rooftop or shows you with actions. Someone who loves you should not cause you pain or unhappiness and he should not be involved with anyone else.
bentnotbroken Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 I think part of that may be the fact that it appears(by posting the same way)the same person is posting the same stuff over and over again...with differing identities of course.
John Michael Kane Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 Because they're ignorant and don't care as long as they get their fix.
Silly_Girl Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 :pFO, I've read this from you before but not every MM had the same relationship leading to the affair; and not every MM makes the same claims. Not every OW believes those claims. Did you believe everything at face value? If not, how did you work through what was feasible/true, and what wasn't? Bent has a great point too. I think your OP has some validity in terms of sheer number of posts. But if you look closely at WHO is saying it, there's not much of it going on. The rate of joining for rOW (relieved/reformed/whatever) seems to be higher than that of unquestioning, happy OW. FO, you say intention is to help prevent affair participants getting hurt. Now obviously people will do what they want to do. I know plenty of times a poster is here making a set of noises but doing the opposite in real life. They're scared of the backlash. Which is a shame. I saw an old, banned poster say that once and (I'm sorry to say) didn't fully buy it but now I've been around here longer I've seen it for myself. I find it sad that being in an affair leads to them being referred to as 'pitiful' and claims the AP is desperate and broken and cowardly. There's a lot of high-fiving for those who behave as they SHOULD (not in my view, but some strong voices here) but others may be in greater need and are missed. How do you think the hurt can be minimised? By telling them how bad it is to cheat and that they must choose NC? Or something else?
jj33 Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 Fooled I agree that people should own their part in a relationship. However when people do own it, they get bashed. Unless someone is looking to go NC this is not a very hospitable forum for people in affairs.
Hazyhead Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 I am seeing more and more threads were the mistress/OW firmly believes all the words that flow out of a married mans mouth. They believe that he "never" talked to his wife about his past, his hopes, his dreams, his plans. WHY? Do you not realize at one time he courted her, he wooed her, he dated her. They spent countless hours together - during their dating time, engaged time, planning their wedding, their future. WHY do you think he wasn't talking to her? Same for sex. Do you really think they didn't have sex prior to marriage (I admit there is 1 girl I know who was a virgin at 27 on her wedding night, but that is rare nowadays). They probably were humping like bunnies at one point! My final thought ....... Something I have also seen a lot of lately " he pursued me". And....so what. Everyone has free will. Everyone has the choice of their behavior. My ex didn't want a divorce, but I did. Just because he didn't want it didn't mean I was going to stop with divorce proceedings. Own your part in the affair. If a MM 'pursues' you and you have repeatedly told him no and he won't comply with your request, file a protective order or a harassment charge. Hopefully, each of us take soothing away from each others experience and are able to help/advise friends who enter into an affair. Hopefully we (general we) can stop someone else from getting hurt from an affair. Love shouldn't be a hidden secret. Two people in love is a beautiful sight to see. Your happiness should not cause hurt, betrayal or deceit. If he wants to keep you a secret, kick him to the curb until he is willing to shout it from the rooftop or shows you with actions. Someone who loves you should not cause you pain or unhappiness and he should not be involved with anyone else. I think during the affair - you get so wrapped up in clinging to anything he might say as the truth because without that belief, what else is there? I know for some affairs are just about the moment and the fun, but for those hearing all the horsediddly about the MP's intentions and wrongs with his marriage, it gives the AP something to hope for - if indeed that is what they want. They're like feeders, in a way. I really like your last paragraph FO - so, so true.
YellowShark Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 It's a cliche but it's valid. If they'll cheat with you they'll cheat on you. So don't be silly and act all surprised when your affair partner cheats on you too. Hell, it should be expected! Cuz that's how you got them into bed wasn't it? ( ...through an affair.)
OWoman Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 Two people in love is a beautiful sight to see. Except when it's between a fOW and a fMM, in which case it gets dismissed and denigrated and brushed off And MMs who DO shout their love for their OWs from the rooftops and don't hide their OWs are called all kinds of mean names. There really is no way for a MM and an OW's love to win, around here. It's heads you lose, tails you lose... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
oldguy Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 I think part of that may be the fact that it appears(by posting the same way)the same person is posting the same stuff over and over again...with differing identities of course. The definition of Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
YellowShark Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 Except when it's between a fOW and a fMM, in which case it gets dismissed and denigrated and brushed off And MMs who DO shout their love for their OWs from the rooftops and don't hide their OWs are called all kinds of mean names. There really is no way for a MM and an OW's love to win, around here. It's heads you lose, tails you lose... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: I agree. Love is a beautiful thing between anyone. Such a precious gift to give. It's such a wonderful feeling to be loved. I just would have a really really hard time trusting "my love" who threw their previous "love of their life" under a bus when by cheating on them. I would expect the probability that they could do it all over again - to me - to be very high. That is why affairs are a dealbreaker for me personally. It's exposes a serious character flaw that is quite important if you're going to commit your heart and soul to someone.
Silly_Girl Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 I just would have a really really hard time trusting "my love" who threw their previous "love of their life" under a bus when by cheating on them. I would expect the probability that they could do it all over again - to me - to be very high. Uh-huh. But perhaps their spouse was never the 'love of their life' and THEY'D been thrown under the bus plenty. Oh no wait. I know the answer. They are supposed to understand many things they've not yet experienced, see in to the future and get a divorce asap. Simple.
White Flower Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 I am seeing more and more threads were the mistress/OW firmly believes all the words that flow out of a married mans mouth. I'm sorry FO, but just because you believe we believe every word that flows from our lovers/brothers/fellow posters mouths is true doesn't mean that we do. I have a better bullsh*t monitor than that. They believe that he "never" talked to his wife about his past, his hopes, his dreams, his plans. WHY? Do you not realize at one time he courted her, he wooed her, he dated her. They spent countless hours together - during their dating time, engaged time, planning their wedding, their future. WHY do you think he wasn't talking to her? No doubt he did all those things and more with her. But it got old, it rubbed off, and he closed up. He could no longer talk to her. How do you not understand that this happens sometimes? Why are thousands if not millions of couples in MC this very moment? I guess because what happened to my MM's M happened to very many more. Same for sex. Do you really think they didn't have sex prior to marriage (I admit there is 1 girl I know who was a virgin at 27 on her wedding night, but that is rare nowadays). They probably were humping like bunnies at one point! MM's W wants everyone to think she was a virgin on the wedding day, but she gave it up one week prior. I learned this on our first date. I don't care either way, but since you brought it up... My final thought ....... Something I have also seen a lot of lately " he pursued me". And....so what. Everyone has free will. Everyone has the choice of their behavior. My ex didn't want a divorce, but I did. Just because he didn't want it didn't mean I was going to stop with divorce proceedings. FO, you must not have ever been pursued relentlessly. And you must not have been in a very unhappy and depressed state, willing to face death or have an A as an alternative. It's very easy to turn a MM away, I've done it many times over in all the years I was M and prior to that. But when MM came along, he was just what I needed. After I turned him down of course the entire first year and a half. Own your part in the affair. If a MM 'pursues' you and you have repeatedly told him no and he won't comply with your request, file a protective order or a harassment charge. Saying he pursued me relentlessly isn't synonymous with me not owning my part in the A starting. Of course I took part in it, it takes two to tango. My supposition is that you hate that a MM could be so persistent in chasing an OW when he should be loyal to his W when he once loved her very much. Take it up with them! But do so knowing that time changes all things, even love, even M. Hopefully, each of us take soothing away from each others experience and are able to help/advise friends who enter into an affair. Hopefully we (general we) can stop someone else from getting hurt from an affair. Love shouldn't be a hidden secret. Two people in love is a beautiful sight to see. Your happiness should not cause hurt, betrayal or deceit. If he wants to keep you a secret, kick him to the curb until he is willing to shout it from the rooftop or shows you with actions. Someone who loves you should not cause you pain or unhappiness and he should not be involved with anyone else. The love we display in public is so harmonious that people walk up to us all the time and say they wish they had what we have. He has literally shouted that he loves me in a crowded parking lot and people have clapped in admiration. His W may own the M license, but I own his heart.
YellowShark Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 His W may own the M license, but I own his heart. ...until he tires of you too and cheats on you like he did on his wife.
crazycatlady Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 I'm sorry FO, but just because you believe we believe every word that flows from our lovers/brothers/fellow posters mouths is true doesn't mean that we do. I have a better bullsh*t monitor than that. No doubt he did all those things and more with her. But it got old, it rubbed off, and he closed up. He could no longer talk to her. How do you not understand that this happens sometimes? Why are thousands if not millions of couples in MC this very moment? I guess because what happened to my MM's M happened to very many more. Ok, if things have change that much, where he no longers feels he can't share those things with her...then why stay? That is always where I've struggled with the whole mess of long term affairs. I would have done anything within my power to set him free if my H had wanted her instead of me. Heck, I had even considered sharing if he wanted us both, or at least attempting it if that had been his choice. I didn't want him to stay because he felt like he had to, that there was no choice in the matter, or even to avoid hurting me. I'm a big girl, I can handle pain. I just can't imagine anyone wanting to make someone stay with them who would rather be with someone else. Because while I do think its easy for partners to grow apart and then back together, after years of growing further and further apart, it becomes difficult to come back together and both partners need to want to do it for it to work. But with one fully in an affair and the other who knows what.....why stay if you have no plans to try and grow back together?
White Flower Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 ...until he tires of you too and cheats on you like he did on his wife. You can read my history here if you like YellowShark. We've gone down that road and hashed it all out. He's proven himself to me, and with my analytical mind that is hard to do.
White Flower Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 Ok, if things have change that much, where he no longers feels he can't share those things with her...then why stay? That is always where I've struggled with the whole mess of long term affairs. I would have done anything within my power to set him free if my H had wanted her instead of me. Heck, I had even considered sharing if he wanted us both, or at least attempting it if that had been his choice. I didn't want him to stay because he felt like he had to, that there was no choice in the matter, or even to avoid hurting me. I'm a big girl, I can handle pain. I just can't imagine anyone wanting to make someone stay with them who would rather be with someone else. Because while I do think its easy for partners to grow apart and then back together, after years of growing further and further apart, it becomes difficult to come back together and both partners need to want to do it for it to work. But with one fully in an affair and the other who knows what.....why stay if you have no plans to try and grow back together? Hmm, I wish I could point out other threads on boards where MM express this better than I can. It's got to do with so much more than just the bolded. For you and I, this would be the dealbreaker, but for others, there are other dealbreakers. There is the financial outlook as a retired person, the fear of not finding someone new as a senior BS, and so on. She clings because she fears, and her pride is not greater than her fear. And she hopes he'll fall in love with her again while he knows he won't. He's tried for decades and he deduced that he just can't. His fear of finances, reputation, etc., play into it as well, and his fear is greater than his understanding of the possible outcome as of yet.
crazycatlady Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 Hmm, I wish I could point out other threads on boards where MM express this better than I can. It's got to do with so much more than just the bolded. For you and I, this would be the dealbreaker, but for others, there are other dealbreakers. There is the financial outlook as a retired person, the fear of not finding someone new as a senior BS, and so on. She clings because she fears, and her pride is not greater than her fear. And she hopes he'll fall in love with her again while he knows he won't. He's tried for decades and he deduced that he just can't. His fear of finances, reputation, etc., play into it as well, and his fear is greater than his understanding of the possible outcome as of yet. I guess its one of those situations that I can't understand. My pride is too great. I would rather be broke then second choice. But I'm also too passionate of a person to live without passion too. So that also is difficult for me to understand. But I know my friends sometimes scratch their heads at the things I've put up with and have forgiven. I do think its kind of interesting how everyone has their different breaking points. But, does this mean he doesn't hide that he is seeing you anymore? I'm sorry for asking questions, I'm just trying to catch up to where you are now a days.
skylarblue Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 At this point, I think MM is being truthful and genuine with me. He’s being honest about how he feels about the A and his M. He could easily tell me all the right things that I would want to hear or put a spin on things, but he doesn’t. So many things he says kinda take me aback because they’re so unexpected from what I’d think the “typical” MM would say. It’s not that I just blindly believe him, but his words seem to match everything I’ve seen or heard for myself. Overall, I think he is as honest with me as any other “decent” person. I am quite aware that our R is likely what he once had with his W; we have what they used to have. I think that’s probably how many MM get so wrapped up in the OW. I understand that they have a history and a life together. I remember when MM was talking a lot about job-related issues and I asked if his W knew and he answered “oh yeah, she knows about everything”. Probably the first time I realized just because he’s with me doesn’t mean she doesn't exist. Although, I share the blame for participating in the A, I still think the burden of responsible lies with the MM as he is the one bound to a commitment. And the A would have been long over if not for MM wanting to make things work. However, I unequivocally take responsibility for the hurt that I’ve caused his W and blame for whatever hurt I cause to myself.
Ellin Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 I am seeing more and more threads were the mistress/OW firmly believes all the words that flow out of a married mans mouth. They believe that he "never" talked to his wife about his past, his hopes, his dreams, his plans. WHY? Do you not realize at one time he courted her, he wooed her, he dated her. They spent countless hours together - during their dating time, engaged time, planning their wedding, their future. WHY do you think he wasn't talking to her? Same for sex. Do you really think they didn't have sex prior to marriage (I admit there is 1 girl I know who was a virgin at 27 on her wedding night, but that is rare nowadays). They probably were humping like bunnies at one point! My final thought ....... Something I have also seen a lot of lately " he pursued me". And....so what. Everyone has free will. Everyone has the choice of their behavior. My ex didn't want a divorce, but I did. Just because he didn't want it didn't mean I was going to stop with divorce proceedings. Own your part in the affair. If a MM 'pursues' you and you have repeatedly told him no and he won't comply with your request, file a protective order or a harassment charge. Hopefully, each of us take soothing away from each others experience and are able to help/advise friends who enter into an affair. Hopefully we (general we) can stop someone else from getting hurt from an affair. Love shouldn't be a hidden secret. Two people in love is a beautiful sight to see. Your happiness should not cause hurt, betrayal or deceit. If he wants to keep you a secret, kick him to the curb until he is willing to shout it from the rooftop or shows you with actions. Someone who loves you should not cause you pain or unhappiness and he should not be involved with anyone else. I was once mutually in love with a MM. He was someone who had been in my life before he had got M. We didn't have a full-blown A. He told me that things were pretty bad between him and his W and he didn't love her any more. He loved me and regretted not having M me. He did say that he had loved her in the past - obviously. Even though things weren't going well between them at the time of their wedding and it was prompted by her being pregnant, he was still very much in love with her at the time. Over the years her actions destroyed that love. I didn't really believe him when he said he no longer loved her. I thought it was just a classic line a MM would give to another woman. I thought it was unlikely for love to completely dissapear when he lived with her, slept with her, had children with her, history with her etc. I decided to disengage from it and be nothing more than friends with him. Life went on and as time showed, he was telling me the truth. He never lied to me. Eventually he D her. The way things were at the time of the D (a couple of years later) meant we couldn't end up together, even though I still had feelings for him. I'm left wondering what might have been.
SidLyon Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 I am seeing more and more threads were the mistress/OW firmly believes all the words that flow out of a married mans mouth. They believe that he "never" talked to his wife about his past, his hopes, his dreams, his plans. WHY? Do you not realize at one time he courted her, he wooed her, he dated her. They spent countless hours together - during their dating time, engaged time, planning their wedding, their future. WHY do you think he wasn't talking to her? Same for sex. Do you really think they didn't have sex prior to marriage (I admit there is 1 girl I know who was a virgin at 27 on her wedding night, but that is rare nowadays). They probably were humping like bunnies at one point! My final thought ....... Something I have also seen a lot of lately " he pursued me". And....so what. Everyone has free will. Everyone has the choice of their behavior. My ex didn't want a divorce, but I did. Just because he didn't want it didn't mean I was going to stop with divorce proceedings. Own your part in the affair. If a MM 'pursues' you and you have repeatedly told him no and he won't comply with your request, file a protective order or a harassment charge. Hopefully, each of us take soothing away from each others experience and are able to help/advise friends who enter into an affair. Hopefully we (general we) can stop someone else from getting hurt from an affair. Love shouldn't be a hidden secret. Two people in love is a beautiful sight to see. Your happiness should not cause hurt, betrayal or deceit. If he wants to keep you a secret, kick him to the curb until he is willing to shout it from the rooftop or shows you with actions. Someone who loves you should not cause you pain or unhappiness and he should not be involved with anyone else. I just want to comment on the ownership part. No I don't believe people own others, but even so I still feel that my H and I belong together, in the same way our children belong with us. I realise there's an inconsistency there and that it might seem strange given I'm a BW whose H had a long term affair. It's the way I feel though.
White Flower Posted June 5, 2011 Posted June 5, 2011 I just want to comment on the ownership part. No I don't believe people own others, but even so I still feel that my H and I belong together, in the same way our children belong with us. I realise there's an inconsistency there and that it might seem strange given I'm a BW whose H had a long term affair. It's the way I feel though. Sid, perhaps it is the way you feel because you'd rather have him want you on his own rather than force him to stay with you. I know for me, it would be much more satisfying that way.
White Flower Posted June 5, 2011 Posted June 5, 2011 But, does this mean he doesn't hide that he is seeing you anymore? I'm sorry for asking questions, I'm just trying to catch up to where you are now a days. Let me see if I can tie this in to the concept of ownership so as not to t/j. MM has taken great measures and risks to be with me after several horrible D-days. He doesn't admit it, and further he denies when she questions him, but if she really wanted to know she'd call me, right? Once again, she is burying her head in the sand. I don't get it. I think if you knowingly take back someone who has cheated on you, you are creating a contract to continue that cycle. With that, I believe she knows and just doesn't say anything. But she can't let on that she knows, else she'll have to make demands again. In her mind, she owns him and it doesn't matter if he's cheating as long as she keeps him home each night (well most nights) and keeps her lifestyle as she knows it. I don't believe I have the right to own him, nor would I if I were M to him. Yet, I know I currently own his heart and he claims it will always be my heart to hold. THAT is much more satisfying to me than any M contract.
donnamaybe Posted June 5, 2011 Posted June 5, 2011 You can read my history here if you like YellowShark. We've gone down that road and hashed it all out. He's proven himself to me, and with my analytical mind that is hard to do. He got a D then? Congratulations!
OldOnTheInside Posted June 5, 2011 Posted June 5, 2011 MM has taken great measures and risks to be with me after several horrible D-days. He doesn't admit it, and further he denies when she questions him, but if she really wanted to know she'd call me, right? Once again, she is burying her head in the sand. I don't get it. I think if you knowingly take back someone who has cheated on you, you are creating a contract to continue that cycle. With that, I believe she knows and just doesn't say anything. But she can't let on that she knows, else she'll have to make demands again. In her mind, she owns him and it doesn't matter if he's cheating as long as she keeps him home each night (well most nights) and keeps her lifestyle as she knows it. Perhaps she still has a lot of (misplaced) trust in her husband...or maybe she doesn't want to move on. Assumptions and conjecture for everybody. I guess the lesson here is to never trust anyone...ever.
Author fooled once Posted June 5, 2011 Author Posted June 5, 2011 I think part of that may be the fact that it appears(by posting the same way)the same person is posting the same stuff over and over again...with differing identities of course. Been on an off all week due to medical issues, but looking at things, I believe you nailed it bent. :pFO, I've read this from you before but not every MM had the same relationship leading to the affair; and not every MM makes the same claims. Not every OW believes those claims. Did you believe everything at face value? If not, how did you work through what was feasible/true, and what wasn't? **Silly, not sure why you responded since you have an issue with me asking a question. If I did ask this before, is there a problem with me asking it again since there a ton of new members recently? Read many of the new posts, these OW state loudly and clearly that 'their' MM don't lie. I never said "ALL" or "EVERY" in my post. No need for you to clarify since I didn't use those words Bent has a great point too. I think your OP has some validity in terms of sheer number of posts. But if you look closely at WHO is saying it, there's not much of it going on. The rate of joining for rOW (relieved/reformed/whatever) seems to be higher than that of unquestioning, happy OW. **Gee, glad you think my original post has some validity. Again, I haven't been consistently on the site for the last 10 days so I wasn't aware of certain things regarding posters. What do you mean by the "rate of joining for rOW seems to be higher than that of unquestioning, happy OW? Are you suggesting that only former other women are joining? Because if that is the case, we must be looking at 2 different sites because I see a ton of new members who are CURRENT OW. FO, you say intention is to help prevent affair participants getting hurt. Now obviously people will do what they want to do. I know plenty of times a poster is here making a set of noises but doing the opposite in real life. They're scared of the backlash. Which is a shame. I saw an old, banned poster say that once and (I'm sorry to say) didn't fully buy it but now I've been around here longer I've seen it for myself. I find it sad that being in an affair leads to them being referred to as 'pitiful' and claims the AP is desperate and broken and cowardly. There's a lot of high-fiving for those who behave as they SHOULD (not in my view, but some strong voices here) but others may be in greater need and are missed. **How to you know that posters are 'making a set of noises but doing the opposite in real life'? What does that even MEAN? I do not even understand what you are trying to say above. Are you saying that people who post are lying about their situations because to tell the truth would make other members mad at them? There are PLENTY of posts here that aren't getting attention, IMHO, but I am not a mod so it is not up to me to tell some people to quit stirring the pot with their posts. How do you think the hurt can be minimised? By telling them how bad it is to cheat and that they must choose NC? Or something else? **When did I say someone MUST chose NC? I believe my advice is to never settle for being 2nd. Never settle for being someone's option and not their priority. Never allow yourself to be disrespected. If a guy loves you (general you), he will move mountains to be with you. I believe many current OW state they don't care how bad it is to cheat or they know it is bad, but they are in love and so they just want to get the guy. I think during the affair - you get so wrapped up in clinging to anything he might say as the truth because without that belief, what else is there? I know for some affairs are just about the moment and the fun, but for those hearing all the horsediddly about the MP's intentions and wrongs with his marriage, it gives the AP something to hope for - if indeed that is what they want. They're like feeders, in a way. I really like your last paragraph FO - so, so true. Thanks Hazy! Your post was very helpful to me! Hope. So many hang on to that, no matter what is right in front of them. Except when it's between a fOW and a fMM, in which case it gets dismissed and denigrated and brushed off And MMs who DO shout their love for their OWs from the rooftops and don't hide their OWs are called all kinds of mean names. There really is no way for a MM and an OW's love to win, around here. It's heads you lose, tails you lose... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Why the ? Who is dismissing and brushing off love between 2 people who were in an affair and are now married? Can you point that out to me? What MM is shouting from the rooftop and not hiding his OW? Who is calling them names? There is a way for their love to win - for him to divorce his wife and then court his former mistress. Why is that hard to understand? I believe people have problems with the MM gaslighting, lying and betraying his wife, when he claims to just be so miserable with her. If he wants to be with his mistress - GO FOR IT - be open and honest and divorce his wife. How is that hard to understand? for some "other men/otherwomen" they may, without realizing it, be ignoring what is obvious to everyone else, as if they see the truth then it might be very painful to them. i think we all do this to a certain extent... it protects us from pychological pain. Some other men/women do see what is obvious to someone "on the outside looking in", but they do not care. they are not interested in the feelings of someone else, only their own sense of entitlement to what bringss pleasure to theselves, everyone else be damned. The feelings of others and the pain their actions may cause aren't even blips on their radar. fortuneaely, these types of people are few and far between...from what I can tell, most other men/women are pretty thoughtful people who don't want to hurt anyone and do feel bad that someone will be hurt because of the affair Thanks Frozen. I have seen more OW on here lately who are concerned about hurting others; versus months ago when there were more who were unconcerned, didn't care, wasn't their marriage to be faithful to, etc. I often wonder tho why the OW feels bad for the spouse AFTER the affair has ended and not prior to entering the affair or during the affair and stopping the affair because of not wanting to continue to hurt an unsuspecting person. I'm sorry FO, but just because you believe we believe every word that flows from our lovers/brothers/fellow posters mouths is true doesn't mean that we do. I have a better bullsh*t monitor than that. **WF, again, not sure what your issue is, but did I ever say YOU believe or that every OW believes that? No, I didn't. Glad you have a better BS monitor, but there have been many posters recently who AFTER the mm has ended the affair have realized the lies he told. No doubt he did all those things and more with her. But it got old, it rubbed off, and he closed up. He could no longer talk to her. How do you not understand that this happens sometimes? Why are thousands if not millions of couples in MC this very moment? I guess because what happened to my MM's M happened to very many more. **I wasn't asking for your specific information. I understand marriages end; I would never presume to know about someone else's marriage, no matter what the MM told me I have no idea if or why millions are in marriage counseling? Could be because one cheated and lied about it? Could be fertility issues? Could be trying to work on effective communication? Could be trying to work on parenting issues? Could be trying to strengthen their marital bond. Don't know - I am not in marriage counseling MM's W wants everyone to think she was a virgin on the wedding day, but she gave it up one week prior. I learned this on our first date. I don't care either way, but since you brought it up... **Again, didn't ask for your specific information and again, don't really care about the mm you are having an affair with and his wife's sexual relationship. I guess that is between the three of you. FO, you must not have ever been pursued relentlessly. And you must not have been in a very unhappy and depressed state, willing to face death or have an A as an alternative. It's very easy to turn a MM away, I've done it many times over in all the years I was M and prior to that. But when MM came along, he was just what I needed. After I turned him down of course the entire first year and a half. ** Oh WF, nice try at yet another dig at me. Shockingly, I have been pursued by men. But I know the word no. No, I have never been in a position where my options were death or an affair. Even after I was savagely raped at age 19, as beaten and broken as I was, I never thought to go have an affair to get out of my depression. I instead learned self defense. I have been asked out while married and said no. I asked my question because I truly TRULY do not understand why people can't or won't say NO to a situation if they do not want the attention from someone who is pursing them. Saying he pursued me relentlessly isn't synonymous with me not owning my part in the A starting. Of course I took part in it, it takes two to tango. My supposition is that you hate that a MM could be so persistent in chasing an OW when he should be loyal to his W when he once loved her very much. Take it up with them! But do so knowing that time changes all things, even love, even M. **?? I "hate that a MM could be so persistent in chasing an OW when he should be loyal to his wife"? Actually, you are wrong again. I hate that men / women cheat. I hate that they can't be HONEST with the person they married and either END the marriage or let him/her know they are choosing to sleep with others; so that their partner can get a heads up that an STD could be in their future. I do believe people should be loyal, especially to someone they say they love...crazy idea, huh? I happen to have personal experience with a marriage ending and love ending, so have no worries, I get that love can fade. What I don't get is why is it so hard to be honest and forthright about it. The love we display in public is so harmonious that people walk up to us all the time and say they wish they had what we have. He has literally shouted that he loves me in a crowded parking lot and people have clapped in admiration. His W may own the M license, but I own his heart. **Good. Wonderful. Yippee. Again, I wasn't asking about YOUR personal situation. If you have such a hard time being civil to me, please feel free to ignore me or not answer my posts. My post wasn't directed at you in any way, yet you took it very personal. Why is that? Ok, if things have change that much, where he no longers feels he can't share those things with her...then why stay? That is always where I've struggled with the whole mess of long term affairs. I would have done anything within my power to set him free if my H had wanted her instead of me. Heck, I had even considered sharing if he wanted us both, or at least attempting it if that had been his choice. I didn't want him to stay because he felt like he had to, that there was no choice in the matter, or even to avoid hurting me. I'm a big girl, I can handle pain. I just can't imagine anyone wanting to make someone stay with them who would rather be with someone else. Because while I do think its easy for partners to grow apart and then back together, after years of growing further and further apart, it becomes difficult to come back together and both partners need to want to do it for it to work. But with one fully in an affair and the other who knows what.....why stay if you have no plans to try and grow back together? Thank you. Thank you for your post. I especially liked your last paragraph which I bolded. At this point, I think MM is being truthful and genuine with me. He’s being honest about how he feels about the A and his M. He could easily tell me all the right things that I would want to hear or put a spin on things, but he doesn’t. So many things he says kinda take me aback because they’re so unexpected from what I’d think the “typical” MM would say. It’s not that I just blindly believe him, but his words seem to match everything I’ve seen or heard for myself. Overall, I think he is as honest with me as any other “decent” person. I am quite aware that our R is likely what he once had with his W; we have what they used to have. I think that’s probably how many MM get so wrapped up in the OW. I understand that they have a history and a life together. I remember when MM was talking a lot about job-related issues and I asked if his W knew and he answered “oh yeah, she knows about everything”. Probably the first time I realized just because he’s with me doesn’t mean she doesn't exist. Although, I share the blame for participating in the A, I still think the burden of responsible lies with the MM as he is the one bound to a commitment. And the A would have been long over if not for MM wanting to make things work. However, I unequivocally take responsibility for the hurt that I’ve caused his W and blame for whatever hurt I cause to myself. Thanks sky for your post. You are so honest in your posts. Thank you. I was once mutually in love with a MM. He was someone who had been in my life before he had got M. We didn't have a full-blown A. He told me that things were pretty bad between him and his W and he didn't love her any more. He loved me and regretted not having M me. He did say that he had loved her in the past - obviously. Even though things weren't going well between them at the time of their wedding and it was prompted by her being pregnant, he was still very much in love with her at the time. Over the years her actions destroyed that love. I didn't really believe him when he said he no longer loved her. I thought it was just a classic line a MM would give to another woman. I thought it was unlikely for love to completely dissapear when he lived with her, slept with her, had children with her, history with her etc. I decided to disengage from it and be nothing more than friends with him. Life went on and as time showed, he was telling me the truth. He never lied to me. Eventually he D her. The way things were at the time of the D (a couple of years later) meant we couldn't end up together, even though I still had feelings for him. I'm left wondering what might have been. Ellin, that is actually a very sad story. I am sorry that you are left wondering. I had a "first love" with someone when I was 16 and he was 18 and we lived hundreds of miles apart (met at a vacation spot). My parents could just tell how smitten I was with him. We saw each other a few times and then he joined the Marines. I heard from him for about 6 months, but then nothing. I tried to find out about him, if he was hurt or anything. I never found out anything and to this day I wonder about him. I think he will always hold a small special place in my heart. Thank you for sharing your story. *** Thanks all for sharing!
Recommended Posts