Why so consumed with the past? Why lie about proposal?

[Econ_Dagney]

Hi all,

 

I am currently very happily married (4 years)to a man with a past... He used to treat women like crap, and walked all over his ex-wife because she let him. My question pertains to her behavior and the friendly relationship she "hopes" to have with my husband. I just don't understand exactly what she wants.

 

The facts...

I have been corresponding with her lately about her daughter (my husband's former step-child), and in these emails/letters the ex talks about the past a lot. Every time we communicate she talks/writes about how my husband cheated on her repeatedly, and how she kept forgiving him (okay), and how he is the only father her daughter has ever known (she's 17 now and he hasn't seen her in at least 4 years). The ex-wife and her daughter are still hurt, and somewhat angry over the divorce, (I was not the cause, but I did come into the picture soon after and I didn't know that they were talking about reconciling shortly before he met me).

His ex-wife and I started corresponding because the whole situation with her and her daughter was really starting to make me uncomfortable since she within the past year (like right after my daughter was born) started putting things like "I'll always love you/always care about you/I miss you" in every email she sent to my husband. Sometimes she would clarify these statements and say "I don't want you back or anything like that". Is this how divorced people sometimes feel about their former spouses?

When I asked her about this point blank she said she does still care about him, but only as a friend and that they will always be in each other's lives because of her daughter (remember not his biological child). I would be fine with his tie to her daughter except that...

Her daughter has refused to meet me because she blames me for them not getting back together since in her mind her mom and "her dad" would have gotten back together if he hadn't fallen in love with his girlfriend (me)-since him being with me was like him still cheating on her mom- even though they were already divorced (the mom and daughter are catholic). I don't mind them being friends or staying in touch, but I don't like people trying to make him feel bad for things he can't change. He did the best he could by them by leaving her mom instead of continuing to cheat indefinitely.

The ex-step-daughter is also angry because his family basically dumped her after the divorce-they chose his side because right or wrong he is related to them, and because my husband and I have had a daughter of our own (his only biological child). I know the ex-wife's daughter feels like she and her mother have been replaced in his heart. I try not to judge the daughter too harshly because I know she is suffering. For the most part I have tried to let my husband deal with this, but I have had to talk to the ex-wife recently because as I said she was doing things that made me feel a little uncomfortable. Now the ex and her daughter keep focusing on things that my husband did 7-14 years ago (affairs), and also focusing on how he has not been making any effort to maintain more than an email/birthday/Christmas father-daughter relationship with ex's daughter after divorce. Are they stuck in the past? Was he wrong for not putting in more of an effort, or giving the ex's daughter more of a relationship than he actually wanted with her? What do other divorced people think?

 

Also, his ex-wife has mentioned a couple of times how my husband proposed to her right after she graduated from university. That never happened. He never proposed. She proposed to him twice before he actually accepted. I've seen proof of his version of events - that she shirked convention and proposed. I saw old cards from her daughter to him saying she hoped he would accept her mom's proposal and be her dad. Now, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with her being the one to propose because there isn't anything wrong with that, but why lie? Why would she lie about it?

Is it to make her feel like she was more important to him than she really was? I'm not saying that she wasn't important to him-he didn't always treat her the best, but I know that she did matter to him and that he would like to remain friends (at least email contact friends).

Does anyone else find this whole thing a bit bizarre? Or, is this just the nature of things when you are involved in a modern relationship?

I'm really just trying to find out what these 2 actually want from us because I don't know. If what they want is him and their family back, that's not something I can give them. If they are trying to assert their ownership because they were there first, okay, and? He left and then instead of going back, he decided to do a complete 180 in this relationship and be better man because he didn't want to hurt another person the way he hurt the ex. If he did treat me badly or cheat, then I would forgive and I would leave- believe me when I say that he knows where I stand on this issue. I just don't understand what his ex-family wants from his next-family.

Does anyone out there have any advice for me? I can't ask those 2 directly? And, I am always friendly, but I honestly am not sure what (if any) kind of relationship my daughter and I should have with the 2 of them.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Frankly - I don't mean to be harsh, but it does seem as if YOU are pretty consumed with the past, or at least with your husband's ex. Not to say I don't understand how that could happen in your circumstances.

 

I'm concerned about your husband not seeing his daughter for 4 years (since he married you?). Yes, I understand she's not biologically his, but he is still her father - he'd been for TEN YEARS. That's forever in that child's life. It does not portray him very well.

 

Why is that?

 

And why is it you who is communicating with the ex about this daughter?

 

From my perspective, this girl has been treated very shabbily, biology or no biology, by her de facto dad and all his family. Still, his relationship with her is his to have, or to shirk, not yours. I think it's odd that you are talking to the girls mom about her at all.

 

Why were YOU corresponding with the ex because you were uncomfortable with stuff she was writing to your husband? Wouldn't that be something to take up with him?

 

The circumstances around his proposal or her proposal are not anything you should be concerned about at all. Who cares? Really, you can have NO IDEA about the intimacies of his former marriage.

 

If I were in your shoes, I would have given my husband a bad time long ago for ditching out on his daughter.

 

Anyway, if you would step away from all of this, the situation would probably go away too, since your husband has already stopped being a father to the teenager. Your involvement is keeping it very much alive, it seems.

[Econ_Dagney]

Of course, I'm the one whose considered the bad guy. I never asked him to stay away. It was a choice he made to not be involved because ex-wife was harassing family members about our relationship when we first got together. Being involved with her daughter meant being more involved with her and that is something he was not interested in doing. Also, he did not want the financial responsibility. I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but he paid off a lot of his ex-wife's debts when they were together and paid for a lot of stuff for her daughter (including private school) so he knew that if he took more of an interest in her daughter after they were no longer together, then the ex would expect more financial help from him as well. I have always encouraged him to do what he thinks is right, but it's not for me to say that he should or shouldn't be involved in their lives. If I suggested he meet with/call the daughter, he didn't do it because he won't do it until and unless he wants to. He has not even called her in these past 4 years-just emails cards at holidays, and presents for Christmas/Birthday, and that was entirely his choice.

I have encouraged him to do what he feels is best either way, but I'm not the reason he has chosen not to see her.

I'm not the one whose obsessed. I have been in communication with the ex to see if her daughter would be more open to meeting me- because for my husband I am the deal-breaker (i.e. if they don't accept our marriage and play nice, then he won't see either of them). Maybe I shouldn't be the reason they don't have a better relationship, but it was his choice to make things this way not mine. I actually feel pretty bad for his ex's daughter because she never had her biological dad in her life either, but none of this is my fault.

And, I do think that it is weird that the ex is bringing up all this stuff now. There's nothing I can do about it now. I can't go back and stop him from cheating or leaving- that was way before me, and I can't make him reconsider their marriage and relationships because those all came before me as well.

And, I think it's weird that his ex wanted to tell me about the proposal, much less lie about it. I never asked her about any of it. My husband and I had a traditional courtship, and he did propose to me in the traditional way (on one knee) with a big rock for my finger. I have never told her anything about what he and I did, or didn't do, or how our relationship developed. So, this whole thing just has me confused.

I thought about encouraging him to ask her daughter to visit, but a part of me just says leave it alone because that family is already broken enough. If everyone is above board, then I would be happy to include his ex's daughter in our lives (and ex as well because you can't include one without considering the other),-but everything has to be above board.

The responses I've been getting here have been very negative towards myself and my husband, and I just don't get it. I don't believe I've done anything wrong, and I'm not his mother so I can't make my husband do anything- as his wife I can love him no matter what decision he makes as long as he doesn't disrespect me or this relationship.

Oh, and he did tell his ex that some of her affectionate remarks made "us" uncomfortable. She hasn't emailed him since, but insists on keeping in contact with me.

[Mz. Pixie]

I am very concerned about the way he has treated this child- and I think you should be too. You are really defensive in your reply to the other poster so I am sure you will be with me too but the reason you should be concerned is because you have a child with him too. One day this could be your child on the other end of the stick. He has left one behind-he could do it again.

 

That being said- you're right you cannot control what he does. You can control what you do. STOP talking to this woman now. The daughter is 17. He is capable of talking to her on her own as she is almost an adult. There is no need for conversation with the ex at all. I think it's like a car accident to you- you don't want to look but you're curious. In a way you want to see what she is going to say. Stop doing it.

 

If anyone needs to talk to the ex- and I really don't see why anyone should since the daughter is older- he should be doing it-affectionate remarks or not. Perhaps the root of this is the fact that he constantly cheated on her and went back to her-and since he was a cheater-you're concerned that her constant flirting with him might cause him to cheat on you as well?

[Woman In Blue]

Being very honest, it sounds as though your husband was just downright cruel to this woman and her child. Affair after affair after affair, no loyalty at all to them, no family unity - it was all about him acting like a selfish pig the entire time he was supposedly married to her. He did her a "favor" by divorcing her so she didn't have to be subjected to his crap behavior anymore?

 

He should have done her a BIGGER favor and never married her in the first place. Clearly, he wasn't feeling it for her, so his plan of action was to go ahead and marry her anyway, then continually abuse her love and trust and sh*t all over their marriage by disrespecting her with all his screwing around? What a low life.

 

And his family even deserted them as well, just because they got divorced. How charming. I guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, does it?

 

From your post, it sounds as though he entered their lives and just ran roughshod all over them, leaving them to pick up all the pieces and try to reconcile with everything that happened. He, however, went right on his merry way, obviously uncaring of all the damage he did to them. Honestly, he should be ashamed of himself.

 

It's been 7 years and yes, his ex-wife should have moved on and gotten on with her life. It sounds as though she's desperately seeking validation because her self-esteem is probably in the toilet after all the damage he did. She's still left with alot of issues and still hasn't managed to find closure. I think both she and her daughter feel as though they were tossed into the dumpster and replaced with a shiny new family - without so much as a backward glance. Of course that's going to cause a ton of insecurity and hurt for them.

 

It's not your job to try to apologize for his crappy behavior or justify why he did what he did. They need to accept that he clearly isn't a man of honor, integrity or character, and be more selective the next time around.

 

I don't think badly of YOU at all, as you stated in your last post. You didn't do anything whatsoever to these people. But being honest, I think your husband is a low life who has absolutely no regard for the feelings of others. I'm kind of amazed that you even gave him the time of day, when you clearly knew what he was capable of doing to those who loved and trusted him. You're STILL seeing the damage of his selfish behavior years later, in the form of emails and correspondence with his ex. And I dare say, you might find youself in exactly the same place his ex and her daughter are finding themselves - left to pick up the shattered pieces of your lives one day down the road when history repeats itself. Don't be surprised if it happens.

[Woman In Blue]

I am very concerned about the way he has treated this child- and I think you should be too. You are really defensive in your reply to the other poster so I am sure you will be with me too but the reason you should be concerned is because you have a child with him too. One day this could be your child on the other end of the stick. He has left one behind-he could do it again.

I couldn't have said it better, myself. The OP is very aware of his past behavior so it shouldn't be a surprise if it happens.

[oldguy]

If he is the only father his step daughter has ever known how long did she know him as her father?

If they where close why hasn’t the step daughter tried to contact him or if she wants’ him in her life why isn’t she making an attempt, at 17, instead of the ex-wife?

 

As for the ex-wife, in a word, she just sounds a little… odd.

I don’t understand, what do the mom & daughter being Catholic have to do with this?

Even though her mom & dad are divorced the , “step daughter”, most likely views herself as his daughter but I would be willing to bet “ex-step daughter” is a term you may want to remove from your vocabulary as I don’t believe that will ever be received well by anyone.

 

For the sake of argument lets refer to his daughter as his daughter for now.

Now the ex and her daughter keep focusing on things that my husband did 7-14 years ago (affairs), and also focusing on how he has not been making any effort to maintain more than an email/birthday/Christmas father-daughter relationship with ex's daughter after divorce. Are they stuck in the past? Is the daughter communicating with anyone or is this hearsay?

 

Was he wrong for not putting in more of an effort, or giving the ex's daughter more of a relationship than he actually wanted with her? I would be asking him why he broke contact with his daughter.

Realize too, you aren’t painting a glowing picture of your husband; he cheated multiple times, was abusive & walked away from his daughter all according to you.

 

What do other divorced people think? Being friends with an ex is not your roll especially if she’s sounding off to you about him. That’s just inappropriate. I don’t understand why he walked away from his daughter or if he wants a relationship with her. If he does your best role to her would be as a good hostess & that is it. Marrying into an extended family has it’s own set of difficulties.

 

The ex wife relationship is easy, you don’t have to be friends & it doesn’t sound like you are. However, if he should decide to rekindle a relationship with his daughter, I would be confused why he would after 4 years, but if he does, you might want to initially go the route of being friendly to the ex-wife as that will join your husband through her. That doesn’t mean the ex-wife should be an invited guest in your home however & being friendly definitely doesn't mean friends.

 

Bottom line; what does your husband think about a relationship with his daughter after 4 years. Because that really comes down to his choice & getting between them usually doesn’t go well. HOWEVER; the ex wife has now reason in your life especially talking to you about YOUR husband.

 

and finally, just in case I wasn't clear, I don't think you should be communicating with the ex and I do think you should let her know that you aren't going to be tolerating any bad mouthing of YOUR husband & don't care to hear about a past relationship gone bad. Or something like that.

Edited June 4, 2011 by oldguy

[Mme. Chaucer]

Really, the bottom line is:

 

STOP talking to the ex wife, and the problems you have put forth in this OP will no longer be your problems.

 

Since you seem to be fine and supportive of his dealing with his daughter (whether you do or not, the world at large will look at him as the father of this girl, and I agree that your use of the term "ex-stepdaughter" is an unfortunate one. Kids are never "exes." In this case, from reading your other posts, I gather he was her FATHER from the time she was about three until she was 13, then he walked away); just leave it all alone, carry on with your happy marriage with your husbands latest daughter. From your post, your husband has completely washed his hands of his "former" daughter as well as his ex wife. Do the same.

 

Just a side note - your defensiveness on behalf of your husband and yourself with regards to the daughter bother me a lot. The fact that he paid for a lot of stuff for his daughter, like private school, when he was with her mom - and then completely abandoned her because he was DONE with her mom - make him look absolutely horrible. Your defense of that behavior makes me angry with you.

[Mme. Chaucer]

By the way, I am divorced myself, and my ex and I did have a child. She was 17 when he and I split, but I know that he and I BOTH are still her parents.

[oldguy]

Yup, you don't divorce your kids.

[Econ_Dagney]

Thank you for reading and giving me other viewpoints to look at these issues from. I'm not being sarcastic at all here.

I didn't post on this board because I needed someone to tell me what to do; I posted because I know that sometimes it helps to be able to look at things from a different person's perspective.

I had 2 step-dad's growing up (they were actually jealous of me) and an absentee dad. I grew up with a mentally ill parent and dealt with all forms of abuse. And, yet here I am with a graduate degree, married and with a child. I guess I didn't realize how my own experiences have clouded my judgment when it came to the situation with the ex and her daughter. This whole father-step-daughter thing is difficult for me to understand because I never experienced loss when my mom divorced twice, or broke up with one of her numerous boyfriends. Quite the opposite in fact, I was glad to be rid of my step-dad's, and my dad was in jail so I suppose my experience with positive male role-models is lacking. My siblings and I actually had a parent who paid attention to us and wasn't obsessed with her relationships, when our mother was single. I never really bonded with anyone the way that ex's daughter may have bonded with my husband so it just wasn't in my frame of reference.

I just didn't get it, but I am trying here.

However, I do see how my husband is with our daughter and he is an amazing dad for her. I know that I would be sad/upset/lost, if she had to lose out on that relationship, and yet to me step-kid's didn't fit into the same category because of my own experiences. I see now that my warped childhood had a negative influence on the way I looked at things, but that was something I could only see by seeing how others perceived the situation. So, thank you.

 

About the ex, I am going NC there. Although she was a willing victim since his cheating started at the beginning of relationship and she knew about it before proposing both times and still proposed b/c she thought she could change him-basically she knew what she was getting into-I understand that her self-esteem probably is low. She tried to wait him out, and instead of coming back he decided to leave and be faithful and have kids with someone else- someone who would put him out if he cheated on principle.

The catholic thing only came into account because the ex didn't want a divorce because she was Catholic. She was prepared to keep forgiving him as long as he kept providing for her and her daughter. I should also mention that neither she nor her daughter actually lived with him during the time they were married. The mom was working overseas, and wanted the daughter to remain in the U.S. with family(yes their arrangement was odd not living together while married-especially given his cheating on her in the past, but that's nothing to do with me).

The ex had hoped the child could live with him (since they were married) but her daughter chose to live with her grandmother in N.C. The daughter never lasted more than a day living with my husband as a kid (and he said he really tried). He tried to bond with her going to park, doing kids things, going to build a bear; however, he said that they never fully connected. So, she never really bonded with him to the extent that she was comfortable living with him without her mom or grandmother there. Even though she never wanted to live with him while her mom was away; she was still not just angry but livid when he stopped trying with her and made a family of his own.

I'm not saying this is right, and I do hope that he never just stops trying with our daughter, but knowing all of this wasn't a deal-breaker for me when we got together. I did think it was admirable that he chose to end the marriage instead of continuing on since he had lost all respect for ex-wife (because she begged him to stay) and for himself- because he was going to keep on cheating since he did not want to be with her. The step-daughter situation also didn't ring any alarm bells because I could appreciate that he had tried (more than any of my mom's b/f or husband's ever did for me) and I found the fact that he could acknowledge that even though he did care about her, it wouldn't be the same as the way he would care about a child of his own. Most people aren't willing to admit that they do love their real kids more than their step-kids b/c people look down on you if you say it. My husband wanted a daughter of his own and he knew that she would have his whole heart because she came from him. I can't fault him for not lying or pretending for his step-daughter's benefit, but I can acknowledge that he might have been a little kinder and feigned interest.

That's all I have to say on the matter. Thank you all for helping me to reflect on everything and also for helping me to understand myself better.

Edited June 4, 2011 by Econ_Dagney