thatone Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 (edited) Yes, but with all this "protection" and "security" talk, it's still being spoken from a place of insecurity or hurt. You aren't having the trust issue talks with your valuable, stellar employees. Doing so suggest a relationship that is damaged, or in which those boundaries (that security, the trust) has not been established. In a LTR or a marriage, you want to be way past those trust issues. You want to be having different kinds of conversations, conversations that lead to a happy marriage - not one in which you feel the need to protect yourself. I understand the man's need for security. Women have that need, too. It isn't one that is normally wrestled with inside a LTR or marriage though, imo, unless there has been damage. you don't have those talks with ANY employees. you observe their actions. they know from early on in their employment how they're supposed to act and what they're supposed to do. only when they don't do those things do you talk to them about it. just like you weed out potential relationship partners in the first few dates based on their actions. establish standards of conduct that you deem reasonable. the other person has to agree to that standard of conduct to maintain your trust. if they do something wrong, you tell them non confrontationally, and explain why what they did is not ok. if they agree to those terms but continue to act in an inappropriate way, you tell them more forcefully that you won't tolerate what they're doing, and they can either respect your wishes or leave. just like people who are in new relationships tell each other what they think is ok and what they think is not ok. i went to school for accounting, when i got out it was my job at the place i first worked to count the money and, thus, catch people stealing. i only ever caught one. i didn't have a conversation with her about it until i knew exactly what she had done, how she did it, and what my action was going to be. i never had a conversation with any employee about stealing or trusting them. i asked her what she did (knowing the answer already) and she honestly replied. thus she wasn't fired, but wasn't allowed to handle money anymore for awhile. she actually had a good explanation that made sense to her, so i had to explain why what she was doing wasn't ok (she rationalized taking any amount of money she was over, and making up however much she was short out of her own pocket). even when i caught her i never said the word "steal" or "trust". tbh i handle issues with women and relationships the same way. if i suspect something, i don't reveal what i'm thinking until i know, based on actions not words. when i get to the point that i think i know, then i'll steer a conversation toward the issue until i get a response, and make a decision based on the response. that's what i was getting at. it's really no different. Edited June 3, 2011 by thatone
Sabali Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 you don't have those talks with ANY employees. you observe their actions. they know from early on in their employment how they're supposed to act and what they're supposed to do. only when they don't do those things do you talk to them about it. just like you weed out potential relationship partners in the first few dates based on their actions. True. I think the best way to protect yourself in any relationship is to take it slow. Many problems arise when people meet in July, move in with each other by September, talk marriage by November, she is pregnant by December... You take your time and observe their behavior over time. No matter what they did in the past or what they didn't do in the past, time tells all. Many, many times someone knows about a person's questionable past but still get caught up from moving too fast and then the knowledge of the past just drives them crazy throughout the relationship but they can't seem to leave the person so it just becomes this long, drawn out suffering process on both ends. This is a very common scenario.
thatone Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 if anyone is curious about the job example, the job was in the accounting office at a hotel. if any of you younger folks want to get experience with management, professional conduct, social propriety, etc, hotels are actually a really good place to start. they have existed for thousands of years, and as such, are typically models of business efficiency.
BobSacamento Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 Communication and listening. Very strong elements associated with the modern man.
Sabali Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 if anyone is curious about the job example, the job was in the accounting office at a hotel. if any of you younger folks want to get experience with management, professional conduct, social propriety, etc, hotels are actually a really good place to start. they have existed for thousands of years, and as such, are typically models of business efficiency. I am going to cosign on this one. I worked at a hotel for years as a bridge to my current career. Although I love my current job and can't imagine doing anything else, pound for pound, that job at a major hotel chain was my best job. I interacted with and hung out with everyday folks and celebrities from all over the world, made great friends, learned what it meant to offer exceptional service and a good business structure. I still can go back to there this day and have the red carpet rolled out to me. Matter of fact, the owner of the hotel is still a great friend of mine and has has made a few very important phone calls on my behalf over the years. I'd recommend it to anyone starting out in the job or business world.
thatone Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 I am going to cosign on this one. I worked at a hotel for years as a bridge to my current career. Although I love my current job and can't imagine doing anything else, pound for pound, that job at a major hotel chain was my best job. I interacted with and hung out with everyday folks and celebrities from all over the world, made great friends, learned what it meant to offer exceptional service and a good business structure. I still can go back to there this day and have the red carpet rolled out to me. Matter of fact, the owner of the hotel is still a great friend of mine and has has made a few very important phone calls on my behalf over the years. I'd recommend it to anyone starting out in the job or business world. not to mention the fact that there are no shortages of attractive 20-25 year old women working at hotels, who by default have attractive 20-25 year old friends . my departure wasn't so rosy since the GM was a raging alcoholic and i just walked out on him one day when i had enough of being the only other person who would confront him about getting loaded and taking his issues out on entry level employees, but i still wouldn't trade the experience for anything. you wanna know how to run a business, work in a hotel, they know how.
Mme. Chaucer Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 In other threads we constantly hear that men should not judge women who are sexual and we are sexist if we deem them unworthy relationship material. You may not have meant this the way it actually reads (the bolded), but WHY would a woman's being "sexual" render her "unworthy relationship material"? This bolsters the (sexist, truly) concept that female sexuality is somehow "bad" and threatening to men. To me the past is a way to tell how the future will probably go. Of course some people change but if you go on a job interview they want to know your past employment history so why should a relationship be any different? I agree with this and I think it's fine to take a person's past history into account when deciding whether they are an appropriate person for you to take the real risk of an LTR with them. I think it's appropriate for a man to be honest with himself and say "I don't like / cannot handle / whatever the fact that this woman has been with 100 men sexually." I DON'T think it's appropriate to label her with nasty names like "slut" and "slatternly" and put her somewhere below you. If her past makes you uncomfortable, feel unsafe or whatever, then it's okay to not forge ahead with her. It's no different for women. My boyfriend had to choose to believe that I would not return to drug abuse when he decided to be my man. I knew that there was a risk that he would not want to deal with that, but I also felt he needed to be told. I chose to have faith that he really learned his lesson about the havoc that infidelity wreaked in his life in his former marriage. Just for the record - neither of us felt that it was important or interesting to share the number of sexual partners each of us has had.
spiderowl Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 (edited) I think probably talk to the woman to discuss attitudes towards fidelity for one. If she's had a cavalier attitude towards fidelity in the past or thinks that having affairs is often justifiable, then it's worth paying attention to that. Ask her - if she made a commitment to someone, would she remain faithful or at least let you know if she no longer wanted to be? If she hasn't made a commitment, you can't expect anything but honesty. However, once someone has, then you'll want to know they mean it. It's amazing how many people think infidelity is OK if you lose interest in someone and that there is no need to warn the partner that you have lost interest in them. There are also weird double-standards; for example, I know a guy who claims he would never be unfaithful to a partner, BUT he's entirely happy for a woman to betray HER partner and then be unfaithful with him. Now I don't actually think he'd be a good bet as a genuine and faithful partner! I don't think that the number of past partners or sexually unihibited behaviour means anything, unless she also thinks infidelity is perfectly acceptable. As long as she will be faithful with HER guy that's all that matters. Some guys seem to assume that if a woman has had several sexual partners or really enjoys sex, then this is a sign of a 'loose' woman, but I would completely disagree with that. It simply means she enjoys sex and I'm sure a guy would prefer his partner enjoys sex than not. Edited June 3, 2011 by spiderowl
whichwayisup Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 If a man can't judge a woman based on her past because that is sexist then what ways can men prevent being cheated or marrying a woman that later on drops the divorce bomb on him? What do people suggest men do to avoid becoming another statistic? Your wife loves you..She isn't going to leave you...Or divorce you...She thinks you're hot and wants your body.. Okay, now that that's out of the way (incase you're having thoughts, usually these threads pop up when you've been reading stuff you shouldn't be reading on other forums, or if you're feeling worried overall).. I do have to say that it goes both ways. People judge eachother all time, in varying degrees.
Sabali Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 not to mention the fact that there are no shortages of attractive 20-25 year old women working at hotels, who by default have attractive 20-25 year old friends . my departure wasn't so rosy since the GM was a raging alcoholic and i just walked out on him one day when i had enough of being the only other person who would confront him about getting loaded and taking his issues out on entry level employees, but i still wouldn't trade the experience for anything. you wanna know how to run a business, work in a hotel, they know how. Tell me about it! My longest relationship was with a woman who worked at the front desk. They keep fine girls at the front desk to keep the guests coming back. It doesn't take a rocket science to figure that out...Breath-taking beauty at the front desk, granny in the cafeteria. Those professional athletes would just spend too much time at the front desk like love-struck teenagers. Those were some of the best years of my life. I don't care how much I ever make and how powerful I ever become, nothing will ever be like working at that hotel during my more carefree days. H Hotel employees have the best stories as I am sure you know. The crazy requests by guests, wild guests, bribery and coverup requests... Don't get me caught up in the nostalgia, man.
Author Woggle Posted June 3, 2011 Author Posted June 3, 2011 It depends on how she views sexuality. I am not into name calling and slut is a word I don't use but I understand men's concerns. If she simply had fun and doesn't blame the men than I won't look down it as long as she never cheated on anybody. If she views it as beating men at their game or turning the tables than that is a huge red flag because this tit for tat mentality very easily extends itself into cheating. I have never cheated in my life so I think I have the right to ask faithfulness from a woman. Right or wrong some men believe that women with a sexual past or more likely to be unfaithful. It might not be right but misandrists like the ones who blamed me for being cheated on don't help matters. For the record I am not concerned about the relationship with my life. I just get mad when I read these boards and men with real concerns are brushed aside as one dimensional sexists.
Ms. Joolie Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 Duh we know that. It's the whole point of this discussion. It's trying to find alternatives or better ways to prepare for the future. Yes, and I was just getting started answering the, "how should a man protect himself in a relationship" part! You don't protect yourself in a relationship, at least that isn't THE THING you do in a relationship. You protect yourself in war or something. It's just worded oddly, imo.
Author Woggle Posted June 3, 2011 Author Posted June 3, 2011 Yes, and I was just getting started answering the, "how should a man protect himself in a relationship" part! You don't protect yourself in a relationship, at least that isn't THE THING you do in a relationship. You protect yourself in war or something. It's just worded oddly, imo. Maybe not in a relationship but certainly should insure himself before a relationship starts.
OliveOyl Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 Most of this thread is about what clues to look for from a woman's past to see if these same signs can be an indicator of future behavior. And that makes sense if potential mates are forthcoming about their past behavior. However, one problem I see with this is the assumption that a "cheater" or someone who has behaved in a way deemed unacceptable is going to be honest and forthcoming about their past. Umm, if they're a serial cheater, they're probably going to be a liar too. How exactly do you expect to get this information? But most people who cheat or suddenly drop the divorce-bomb out of the blue don't have any prior history of doing so! Hang out in the Separation and Divorce forums. There are so many threads that start out with, "we were together for XY years and I was her first/only partner and she suddenly up and left." Sure you can protect yourself by getting the appropriate prenups and setting up the finances in a certain manner. However the best protection is not so much selecting the best candidate but working on creating the best marriage you can. And that really has very little, if anything, to do with how many sexual partners she's had in the past. It has to do with ongoing communication, nurturing the relationship and intimacy, managing conflict, staying healthy, etc. etc.
sally4sara Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 If a man can't judge a woman based on her past because that is sexist then what ways can men prevent being cheated or marrying a woman that later on drops the divorce bomb on him? What do people suggest men do to avoid becoming another statistic? The same way anyone can to avoid a poor choice of partner/spouse. Take the time to get to know them well. Watch that their actions match their words. Pay attention to how they treat the people who trust them and how they treat themselves. That plus an ease of chemistry = best odds anyone can find male or female.
thatone Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 (edited) Tell me about it! My longest relationship was with a woman who worked at the front desk. They keep fine girls at the front desk to keep the guests coming back. It doesn't take a rocket science to figure that out...Breath-taking beauty at the front desk, granny in the cafeteria. Those professional athletes would just spend too much time at the front desk like love-struck teenagers. Those were some of the best years of my life. I don't care how much I ever make and how powerful I ever become, nothing will ever be like working at that hotel during my more carefree days. H Hotel employees have the best stories as I am sure you know. The crazy requests by guests, wild guests, bribery and coverup requests... Don't get me caught up in the nostalgia, man. too late! the nostalgia already back. highlight (lowlight?) of my years was almost getting into a fight with eddie money over his flyer miles (really? flyer miles? c'mon man, accept that you're over the hill). but he was pretty damn big and obviously still worked out, i didn't wanna be forever known as the guy who got his ass kicked by eddie money , so i just lied to him about getting the miles on all those rooms so he'd leave. other lessons learned: it's amazing how much the scottish can really drink, even compared to people in new orleans. how can they drink hundreds of dollars worth of hard liquor until 2 am, sleep for 3 hours, and get up to catch a helicopter to fly them to work on an oil rig at 5 am, every day? it's not just an image thing, ziggy marley and his crew really can make an entire hotel smell like pot smoke. the courtesy driver made a killing in tips bringing them back and forth to the grocery store for munchies over 3 days. robert plant is one of the coolest and nicest people alive, he'd hang around the lobby and bar and talk to random people for hours. jimmy page on the other hand has some serious mental/security issues, he would jerk away from people he didn't know walking past him like he was shot, very strange. the management was leery of letting more rock stars in after the complaints about ziggy marley's pothead entourage, but i got one of the local bar owners to put Bad Company in during a light occupancy week, and they were arguably the best group booking we ever had. they even made their own beds every morning and said "yes ma'am" and "no ma'am" to the housekeepers. definitely the pinnacle of "not living up to your image". and that doesn't even begin to cover all of the strange stories and occurrences with everyday regulars. definitely good times. Edited June 3, 2011 by thatone
Pyro Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 There is no 100% protection in any relationship. The guy or girl regardless of past adventures have the capability to make or break a relationship. You just have to ask yourself if the person you are with is worth the risk.
Titania22 Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 Haven't read the whole thread. My opinion on the question, is that men and women can't really protect themselves. All relationships are a risk. Making the big decisions with our heads rather then our heart may minimise damage. But when it comes to other people we can never really ever know them enough to be 100% secure. We just have to ask ourselves if the potential risk is worth the potential rewards. If we have doubts, don't take the chance.
mr.dream merchant Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 (edited) Perhaps you can put a wall up, or never get intimate with a woman. Aside from that, there may be no possible way to protect yourself 100% from a woman hurting you, getting over on you, deceiving you, etc. The best thing you can do is actually embrace her as a person, and study that. See how she reacts to certain situations, how she treats other people (namely those close to her), etc. This is why most people say it's good to be friends first before dating. I know all of my good friends pretty well, and how they would act in certain situations. I know enough to trust them, and that should be all you need. Can they screw me over? Sure. Would they? I doubt it. A woman that you're intimate with should be no different. She should be a friend first, and a lover second. As much bull**** I spew all over these boards lol, I still would give alot to have a woman that truly makes me happy by my side. But until then I'm just going to **** these hoes and focus on me. And I think that's what every man should do essentially. Focus on themselves, work hard then play harder. Off topic but I see it so much on these boards, mostly from men. They're always wondering what they can do to please her, or what to wear to please her, this and that to please her, etc. It's like guys are more concerned with pleasing some woman than pleasing themself instead. What happened to being content with YOUR life and not placing importance or sole purpose of it in a woman? Get your education. Get your money. Take control of YOUR life. All these little pretty bitches runnin' around here shouldn't even be on the priority list, they should be on YOUR watch. Oh you want to go out to a nice restaurant and etc? Cool, maybe when I'm not busy. Okbye. Dudes on these boards are mad thirsty and it's sad...everytime I put my eyes on their message. If they would just focus on them, and stop worrying about these birds they'd be so happy with life. Ahem, well **** - I'm ranting and I have to shoot off for work in the Lab. Edited June 3, 2011 by mr.dream merchant
John Michael Kane Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 Yes, and I was just getting started answering the, "how should a man protect himself in a relationship" part! You don't protect yourself in a relationship, at least that isn't THE THING you do in a relationship. You protect yourself in war or something. It's just worded oddly, imo. Nothing wrong with being "guarded" in a relationship. In this day and age, you can't blindly trust someone so easily.
John Michael Kane Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 Perhaps you can put a wall up, or never get intimate with a woman. Aside from that, there may be no possible way to protect yourself 100% from a woman hurting you, getting over on you, deceiving you, etc. The best thing you can do is actually embrace her as a person, and study that. See how she reacts to certain situations, how she treats other people (namely those close to her), etc. This is why most people say it's good to be friends first before dating. I know all of my good friends pretty well, and how they would act in certain situations. I know enough to trust them, and that should be all you need. Can they screw me over? Sure. Would they? I doubt it. A woman that you're intimate with should be no different. She should be a friend first, and a lover second. As much bull**** I spew all over these boards lol, I still would give alot to have a woman that truly makes me happy by my side. But until then I'm just going to **** these hoes and focus on me. And I think that's what every man should do essentially. Focus on themselves, work hard then play harder. Off topic but I see it so much on these boards, mostly from men. They're always wondering what they can do to please her, or what to wear to please her, this and that to please her, etc. It's like guys are more concerned with pleasing some woman than pleasing themself instead. What happened to being content with YOUR life and not placing importance or sole purpose of it in a woman? Get your education. Get your money. Take control of YOUR life. All these little pretty bitches runnin' around here shouldn't even be on the priority list, they should be on YOUR watch. Oh you want to go out to a nice restaurant and etc? Cool, maybe when I'm not busy. Okbye. Dudes on these boards are mad thirsty and it's sad...everytime I put my eyes on their message. If they would just focus on them, and stop worrying about these birds they'd be so happy with life. Ahem, well **** - I'm ranting and I have to shoot off for work in the Lab. Exactly. These men need to stop kissing their woman's feet so damn much. And then these women get their heads filled up with some insane idea that they hold all the power in the relationship, when they don't.
dispatch3d Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 first thought after reading title: condoms? second thought after reading post: what kind of a question is this (serious reply) nonserious reply: I bet there's a questionaire in some women's magazine for this sort of thing.
Sabali Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 (edited) too late! the nostalgia already back. highlight (lowlight?) of my years was almost getting into a fight with eddie money over his flyer miles (really? flyer miles? c'mon man, accept that you're over the hill). but he was pretty damn big and obviously still worked out, i didn't wanna be forever known as the guy who got his ass kicked by eddie money , so i just lied to him about getting the miles on all those rooms so he'd leave. other lessons learned: it's amazing how much the scottish can really drink, even compared to people in new orleans. how can they drink hundreds of dollars worth of hard liquor until 2 am, sleep for 3 hours, and get up to catch a helicopter to fly them to work on an oil rig at 5 am, every day? it's not just an image thing, ziggy marley and his crew really can make an entire hotel smell like pot smoke. the courtesy driver made a killing in tips bringing them back and forth to the grocery store for munchies over 3 days. robert plant is one of the coolest and nicest people alive, he'd hang around the lobby and bar and talk to random people for hours. jimmy page on the other hand has some serious mental/security issues, he would jerk away from people he didn't know walking past him like he was shot, very strange. the management was leery of letting more rock stars in after the complaints about ziggy marley's pothead entourage, but i got one of the local bar owners to put Bad Company in during a light occupancy week, and they were arguably the best group booking we ever had. they even made their own beds every morning and said "yes ma'am" and "no ma'am" to the housekeepers. definitely the pinnacle of "not living up to your image". and that doesn't even begin to cover all of the strange stories and occurrences with everyday regulars. definitely good times. You had to do it... Appreciating the amazing talent of makeup artists. Seeing celebrities without their makeup artists assistance is almost a night and day experience. I will never forget seeing this one particular actress onscreen for the first time. She looked so beautiful she literally could take your breath away. I visited her room in the morning right before she was about to checkout and I could hardly recognize her. This was the case for many of the models that visited as well. Bob Euecker cursed like a sailor. Every other word out of his mouth was a 4 letter word. Out of all the people who stayed at the hotel, the NBA players had the most beautiful women but there was one guy who consistently trumped them all when he visited the hotel. It was a local dentist. Every single woman he ever brought with him to the hotel was flawless in appearance. One day he called me up at the hotel and told me that he was going to be at the hotel with his wife that day and to pretend like I didn't know him when they arrived. His wife was a local celebrity. Donna D'Errico from Baywatch is one of the coolest and most down-to-Earth women you could ever meet. I drove her around to some places one evening and it was like hanging out with an old friend. June Lockhart from the old Lost in Space show was also super cool. Very funny woman. A very famous rapper once came to visit the city I was living in at the time. He did a concert and was staying at the hotel. During the concert, he said some things to offend the locals. The locals rush the hotel like a typhoon looking for him afterwards. Those folks were all behind the front desk and every other restricted area of the hotel looking for him. It literally looked like an invasion. You just had to see it to believe it. Rock bands had the most scantily dressed fans looking for them after a concert in the hotel. At 3am in the morning, these women would have the hotel buzzing like a convention center trying to do whatever it took to find out what room their band members were in. They can be very seductive if you aren't careful. Those band turned the rooms upside down! Housekeepers hated it, of course. Of course, the halls smelled like weed. The players ball. This is actually a real event. We even had Huggy Bear from Starsky and Hutch staying there. The room exec didn't like this at all. Sex and the almost naked outside of rooms in the hotel. You get numb to it after the first few times. The musicians wanting to know where the drugs and to be taken to crazy locations in the middle of the night. I was warned about this very early in my employment too. "Do not be star struck! Some of these people can be a trip!" Professional baseball players were probably the most respectable and professional behaving of all the athletes I encountered. They were always pleasant and chill. Yeah, great times! Except for suicide jumps. Ouch! Edited June 3, 2011 by Sabali
TheLawmaker Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 What if a man doesn't have a past? What if he is a total virgin? What if a woman is? Does that suddenly make them invalid to the argument?
Recommended Posts