White Flower Posted June 6, 2011 Posted June 6, 2011 Silk, as much as I like your posts and your reasoning I will have to question most of this post. While I do believe your theory is possible a lot of the time, I don't think it is probable every time. Having said that, here goes... It's often been said that a MM must not love his wife because if he did he wouldn't have an affair. I disagree with this statement, not only because of my own life, but more pointedly because of my father-in-law. He cheated on his wife - a lot. But it was evident to observers right up to the day he died that he truly loved his wife. My dad truly loved his W, (my mom) until the day he died too, but in a sibling kind of way. It didn't stop him from having his OW, moving in with her, then moving back home to take care of my mom while she was sick (because he wasn't D'd yet and he felt obligated). He loved my mom, but not like 'that'. They didn't have sex the entire time he had his OW. She confided that to me. After she died, he did things for her, talked to her, talked about her. He knew her for 40 years, that's a very long time and the memories don't die just because the romantic love did. She knew he was taking care of her out of obligation. She didn't like it, but she accepted it. What the hell else was she going to do? To an outsider one would think 'he loved her until his dying breath', but really he cared about her and respected her enough to fulfil his obligations as he wasn't yet D'd. Observers are basically and on the whole romantic. They believe what they want to believe. If it was a familial love, they'd rather believe it was a romantic one. So, in the case of the affairs where the OW is immediately dropped on D-Day, and the MM can't wait to start telling his wife how "she never meant a thing" I really don't think it's a lack of love for his spouse that caused the affair, nor the fear of lack of money that keeps in him his marriage. I think the affair is primarily due to boredom, and love that keeps him in the marriage. Think about it. What is the most exciting, most heart-pounding, most intense thing that ever happens to most of us? Falling in love. I'm not sure I understand the bolded Silk; perhaps you meant to say, 'and it's love'? If so, I still disagree. Boredom, yes. But I have a hard time believing he'll cheat on a W he loves. If it's a romantic love, that is. MM admitted to loving me on D-day because she had found some evidence pointing to it. That must have been hard to see. So, with this paragraph, are you suggesting that most MM love both women romantically at the same time? And with men feeling the pressure to be the breadwinner, and to impress, why wouldn't financial matter not be a factor, especially if D-day came sooner than he planned and didn't have it all figured out yet? Why, if he choses to stay in that moment, is it assumed that he loves his W and not assumed that he isn't yet sure if he's got the finaces it takes to move and set up living arrangements elsewhere? In our highly technical and highly boring society, there just isn't that much that can really get the blood boiling for most people - just love, or lust, or hot sex. I'm not saying that married sex can't be hot cuz it is. But it's not (usually) got all of the other stuff (the "falling" in love, the newness, the exploration, etc) that is there with someone new - not to mention the stark fear of getting caught if you're cheating. And undoubtedly for some the manipulation of another person I think this is what most people assume, that MM get bored with the same old, same old, and figure if they can get something new on the side without getting caught then why not. But why keep taking the risk getting caught over and over if he's really trying to prove his love at home? And especially, why not try finding someone new (newer than me) so she doesn't get hurt knowing he keeps returning to the same woman that he is obviously in love with? He keeps defending me when she tries to poison his mind against me and it drives her crazy. The next D-day will be a very bad one for her, I'm sure. So, though it's understandable for someone to say "he must not love her if he cheated with me", I think that is disingenuous, as most people are where they truly want to be. If they truly want to be with the OW, they'll get out of the marriage and be with her. If on D-Day they truly want to stay with their wife, they will. On the contrary, I think it's disingenuous to assume the most people are where they truly want to be. I wasn't truly where I wanted to be the last 5-10 years of my M, yet I stayed, and I stayed for many other reasons having nothing to do with love. There was reconciling what my loyalty (as in staying M because this was long before my a) for my H with being true to myself, how my reputation might change if I were a single mother, whether I could keep my house on my own, how my children would fare in a D, and so on. I think your claim validates what the BW wants so much to believe. I know I felt that way when my H dropped is OW for me. But after a few months of really hashing it over in my mind I realized there was a reason for his wandering. He wasn't truly happy and no matter how much love and how much work I put into our M I could never really be the partner he wanted me to be. We just didn't mesh enough to make it perfect for him. It was great for him, but not perfect. Nor was it perfect for me. I'm not saying we all should strive for perfection, but the right blend sure makes it easier for a R to survive romantically in the long run. Being forced to make a life decision ambush style doesn't prove a thing.
White Flower Posted June 6, 2011 Posted June 6, 2011 Of course you are correct, generalizations are simply that generalizations. I obviously didn't word it carefully enough, as I didn't mean ALL - but I also get tired of saying "of course, I don't mean all :)" I guess at some point I expect readers to fill in the blanks to a certain extent.... And yes, I think there are many factors, but one of the factors that is continually dismissed by OW is that often (note, not all ) the MM who stays with his wife stays because he loves her. He never did intend to leave, he just wanted some way to get excitement into his boring life. Sorry Silk, I was so quick to post that I didn't read the entire thread first nor did I see this post. Well, now you've seen how specific a post needs to be. And I should have read the whole thread before posting. We all live and learn...
pureinheart Posted June 6, 2011 Posted June 6, 2011 (edited) Since I didn't want to threadjack, I thought I'd start one. First my disclaimer, as most of you know I'm primarily a fBS... It's often been said that a MM must not love his wife because if he did he wouldn't have an affair. I disagree with this statement, not only because of my own life, but more pointedly because of my father-in-law. He cheated on his wife - a lot. But it was evident to observers right up to the day he died that he truly loved his wife. So, in the case of the affairs where the OW is immediately dropped on D-Day, and the MM can't wait to start telling his wife how "she never meant a thing" I really don't think it's a lack of love for his spouse that caused the affair, nor the fear of lack of money that keeps in him his marriage. I think the affair is primarily due to boredom, and love that keeps him in the marriage. Think about it. What is the most exciting, most heart-pounding, most intense thing that ever happens to most of us? Falling in love. In our highly technical and highly boring society, there just isn't that much that can really get the blood boiling for most people - just love, or lust, or hot sex. I'm not saying that married sex can't be hot cuz it is. But it's not (usually) got all of the other stuff (the "falling" in love, the newness, the exploration, etc) that is there with someone new - not to mention the stark fear of getting caught if you're cheating. And undoubtedly for some the manipulation of another person So, though it's understandable for someone to say "he must not love her if he cheated with me", I think that is disingenuous, as most people are where they truly want to be. If they truly want to be with the OW, they'll get out of the marriage and be with her. If on D-Day they truly want to stay with their wife, they will. Silk, having worked in an industry in which A's were quite common, also the area itself A's were common. I'd say, with a conservative figure that about 80% of the AP's got together at some point. I don't remember seeing a lot of flip flopping ...just all of a sudden the MP's weren't together anymore and one of them with someone else. You had to be really careful about what you said to people as to not offend or bring up bad stuff to the AP's or BS's...it got really confusing at times understanding who was with who. About 20% had some really bad D's where everyone hates everyone. Outside of work I remember one of my supervisors confiding in me that he had an A and was being bribed by his AP. Finally he got sick of it and told AP to do what she needed to do...so AP told his W....him and his W are together to this day. He clearly loved his W and I think he wanted some excitement, but got more than he bargained for. I think it really depends on the situation. In bold, I don't agree either, I do think there are issues involved concerning the M in most cases, although to say that the MM doesn't love his W is a generalisation and only the person in the situation can make that call IMO. Edited June 6, 2011 by pureinheart
pureinheart Posted June 6, 2011 Posted June 6, 2011 Statements like this don't make sense when it is claimed that they're ALWAYS true. Every case is different. Some affairs don't work out. Some do. Some OW believe that their MM love them more than they love W, others don't think so. Some MM do stay only or mainly for reasons like children and money, others stay for their W. Right? Bold...this really caught my eye. I've known (mostly women) several people that could not be realistic if their life depended on it. I am not just speaking of AP R's, but all R's....it's like they really believed that person "x" was really in love with them, when none of the "signs" were present on any level. I mean person "x" didn't even have to lie or fake it.
pureinheart Posted June 6, 2011 Posted June 6, 2011 Sorry Silk, I was so quick to post that I didn't read the entire thread first nor did I see this post. Well, now you've seen how specific a post needs to be. And I should have read the whole thread before posting. We all live and learn... I did the same thing WF and repeated a few others...apologies Silk:o
Recommended Posts