Sanman Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 To me, polite is about "This is expected of me by society" and nice is about "This is the standard I hold myself to, based on how I feel about people." Very different. To me, politeness is begrudging niceness---it's like being nice because you feel you have to, not because you want and are choosing it as the best path for you. I don't usually buy random people things (except like homeless people food as charity). But I let people cut in line in front of me all the time, for instance, if I have a lot of things to buy and they just have one or two. I let people in front of me in traffic when they are signaling that they want to get in. I hold doors open for people, especially older people or people struggling with bags or children/pets. I pick up things people drop near me and hand it to them. To me, all of these are being nice---they are the things I taught my Kindergarteners to do as good citizens and the standards I still hold myself to in the world, and people who are like that on at least some level are the people I, personally, choose to associate with, rather than those who are only in this life for themselves and find small acts of kindness which cost nothing/very little in time, energy, and money to be "not worth it." YMMV. In my experience, being nicer and less begrudging of kindness towards others (and in statistics in studies!) makes you both happier and more likely to succeed at nearly everything in life, including human relationships. For what I think is a very obvious reason: it gets your brain in a place where you are more likely to move towards good things. I live in NYC. You really do not need to be polite at all if society is your standard. I still am because we all decide whether we would like to be so or not. Perhaps I am even kind or considerate. However, even this is at its core selfish. I do it because I would like to consider myself a good person and it feels good. Thus, I am getting something out of it. Maybe it is how I want others to perceive me and that is also a selfish reason. However, indiscriminately 'nice' people (read: doormats) are annoying and I have yet to see this make them more appealing to women. In fact, I know quite a few who have attracted women who took advantage of them. As I said, I am nice to those who earn the privilege of my trust and friendship. I treat others as what they are...people I do not know.
zengirl Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 I live in NYC. You really do not need to be polite at all if society is your standard. I still am because we all decide whether we would like to be so or not. Perhaps I am even kind or considerate. However, even this is at its core selfish. I do it because I would like to consider myself a good person and it feels good. Thus, I am getting something out of it. Maybe it is how I want others to perceive me and that is also a selfish reason. However, indiscriminately 'nice' people (read: doormats) are annoying and I have yet to see this make them more appealing to women. In fact, I know quite a few who have attracted women who took advantage of them. As I said, I am nice to those who earn the privilege of my trust and friendship. I treat others as what they are...people I do not know. I don't think this makes you a bad person, but it seems unfriendly to me. I am a traveler though, and one who makes new friends easily, and it has always served me well to be sociable, friendly, and kind towards strangers because all friends were strangers first, etc. I've lived in NYC, albeit only for a couple months, never long-term. Everyone says it's a "rude" city, but I don't agree. There are rude and cynical people there, but also all kinds. I've lived in much ruder cities, including Seoul (where people bump into you and it's unheard of to say "Sorry!" so nobody does, literally no Korean does). And I've never lived anywhere that I thought was and kinder or less kind than other places. Just kind in different ways. I don't think it's "selfish" in a bad way to act a certain way because it serves you well, but simply to want this-for-that with your interactions (i.e. I'm nice, so I get a date is lame, but I'm nice, because it makes me happy is lovely). I'm not sure how I feel about worrying so much what other people think/if they perceive you as a good person. That's another kettle of fish altogether. I don't see doormats as solely indiscriminately nice, as I'd say I'm indiscriminately nice (everyone deserves kindness until they prove otherwise) but no doormat. I see doormats as people without appropriate boundaries who are unable to assert their own needs. Not at all anything about being nice. Impolite jerks can be doormats too, in certain situations. So, I simply don't agree with the correlation. At any rate, Sanman, you never struck me as a bad guy----just needlessly cynical. I approach people with optimism, but I've not been taken advantage of because optimism need not be stupid. That's just a fallacious narrative.
Sanman Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 (edited) I don't think this makes you a bad person, but it seems unfriendly to me. I am a traveler though, and one who makes new friends easily, and it has always served me well to be sociable, friendly, and kind towards strangers because all friends were strangers first, etc. I've lived in NYC, albeit only for a couple months, never long-term. Everyone says it's a "rude" city, but I don't agree. There are rude and cynical people there, but also all kinds. I've lived in much ruder cities, including Seoul (where people bump into you and it's unheard of to say "Sorry!" so nobody does, literally no Korean does). And I've never lived anywhere that I thought was and kinder or less kind than other places. Just kind in different ways. I don't think it's "selfish" in a bad way to act a certain way because it serves you well, but simply to want this-for-that with your interactions (i.e. I'm nice, so I get a date is lame, but I'm nice, because it makes me happy is lovely). I'm not sure how I feel about worrying so much what other people think/if they perceive you as a good person. That's another kettle of fish altogether. I don't see doormats as solely indiscriminately nice, as I'd say I'm indiscriminately nice (everyone deserves kindness until they prove otherwise) but no doormat. I see doormats as people without appropriate boundaries who are unable to assert their own needs. Not at all anything about being nice. Impolite jerks can be doormats too, in certain situations. So, I simply don't agree with the correlation. At any rate, Sanman, you never struck me as a bad guy----just needlessly cynical. I approach people with optimism, but I've not been taken advantage of because optimism need not be stupid. That's just a fallacious narrative. See, when you are traveling and looking to make friends, you also have a reason to be friendly. It is a self-serving motive. Even if that motive is to promote happiness (which you will inevitably partake in). I find nothing wrong with selfish motives. It is a necessary motivation for most anything (again semantics). Well, when I loved in the south, I was certainly considered ruder for my NYC ways than otherwise. Again, depends on your perspective. I've always found you to be pleasant as well Zengirl. My cynicism serves me well and isn't exactly something you would see if you met me on the street. However, it allows me to be aware and cut out the users in my life and keep the positive people. Besides, I consider myself a pragmatist. That way I can be pleasantly surprised on occasion. I find optimism to lead mostly to met expectations or disappointment. Edited June 3, 2011 by Sanman
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