Red Arremer Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 Thread title is pretty self-explanatory, I think. I have been on a LOT of first dates in the past few months, and none of them have gone anywhere and it's really starting to frustrate me (even more than I was already frustrated about dating). I think it's coming down to a couple things: 1) I have this super super intense fear of coming off like a creep on a date, which makes me scared as all hell to show any kind of physical interest, like the thread title says. 2) I feel like I have no idea how to read body language in a dating situation, and specifically how to gauge a woman's interest and how much flirting she'd be receptive to. See #1. Any insight? I'd give detailed examples but there really isn't much to say, a typical date for me is a couple hours of conversation at a coffee shop that's at best interesting and at worst fairly awkward in spots, and then a hug at the end of the night. This is then followed by either me deciding I'm not interested in her or her not returning my calls/texts for another date.
doomage Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 Sometimes it's okay to risk being creepy in order to see where to draw the line at, so if one girl thinks your creepy learn your lesson and go from there. I see a couple things wrong, I feel like you are trying to figure out what the woman is thinking instead of going by what you feel, whose more important on the date to you, you or her? The fact that a woman accepted a date on you shows you how she feels about you at that moment, read between the lines. You don't have to gauge how much flirtation she'd be receptive to, just act normal, keep your cool, and don't stare at her without blinking while on a date (that's creepy lol) Also I think the coffee shop idea is cool, but if your there for a couple of hours maybe change up the strategy and LEAD her to another destination, something fun. So after the coffee shop date say "hey let's go here.......(whereever that is.)" Don't put too much pressure on yourself about if a girl will come for a second date or not, go on a date with no expectations, freedom from outcome.
Sanman Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 Go in for the kiss and if she is not interested she will usually give you the cheek. It is better to be a bit more aggressive earlier and kissing too early is generally better than waiting too long. Definitely by the second date though.
EasyHeart Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 Thread title is pretty self-explanatory, I think. I have been on a LOT of first dates in the past few months, and none of them have gone anywhere and it's really starting to frustrate me (even more than I was already frustrated about dating). I think it's coming down to a couple things: 1) I have this super super intense fear of coming off like a creep on a date, which makes me scared as all hell to show any kind of physical interest, like the thread title says. 2) I feel like I have no idea how to read body language in a dating situation, and specifically how to gauge a woman's interest and how much flirting she'd be receptive to. See #1. Any insight? I'd give detailed examples but there really isn't much to say, a typical date for me is a couple hours of conversation at a coffee shop that's at best interesting and at worst fairly awkward in spots, and then a hug at the end of the night. This is then followed by either me deciding I'm not interested in her or her not returning my calls/texts for another date.I'm assuming that when you say that "none of [the first dates] have gone anywhere" means you didn't get a second date, as opposed to you didn't get first-date sex. If you're looking for the latter, then I can't help you. If you're not getting second dates, then the problem isn't that you aren't groping these women enough, it's that you aren't interesting them enough. On a first date, she is (and you are) evaluating whether the other person is fun and interesting enough for a second date. And your goal as the guy on a first date isn't to kiss her, it's to make her want to kiss you. You don't flirt with you hands; you flirt with your words, your eyes and your smile. Take control of the conversation as soon as you sit down. Ask her open ended questions, listen to her answers and ask pertinent follow ups. It's a cliche, but it's true: "interested is interesting". Look straight in her eyes and don't let go; holding her eyes is much sexier than holding her hand. Find common interests, no matter how trivial, as a way to bond and build connection. Get her laughing. If she's not laughing, you're not getting a second date. Period. Whatever you do, don't talk about yourself. No one like a braggart, and women in particular are generally smart enough to know that men who brag about themselves are usually very insecure. At the end of the date, you should know a lot about her, but she should know very little about you. You are gathering information, you are in control and you are evaluating whether she is worthy of your attention because you have lots of other options. The easiest way to tell if a date is going well is if she's doing most of the talking. And, like in any negotiation, the side that's willing to walk away has all the power. Keep the conversation moving and when it stalls, be ready to leave. You never want to let a date drag on. The number one rule of first dates (and all dates, really) is "Always leave her wanting more".
Titania22 Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 And your goal as the guy on a first date isn't to kiss her, it's to make her want to kiss you. I love this statement. It is absolutely true.
rafallus Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 (edited) You don't flirt with you hands; you flirt with your words, your eyes and your smile.If you don't use your hands, you end up hearing "let's just be friends" anyway. Been there, (not) done that. You can only do so much with words, at some point you have to show you're a man and not a boy and start making moves. You must touch kinda in sync with your conversation. ie. you don't break out 5 mins of awkward silence with random "hey, let's make out". You start small and gain momentum. If she thinks you're moving too fast, she'll just let you know, then you take a few steps back, but not stop altogether. And your goal as the guy on a first date isn't to kiss her, it's to make her want to kiss you.And odds are slim you'll get a kiss without any prior touching. In fact anytime I was making out with girls, they were already so close physically, that it was only obvious thing to do. Edited June 1, 2011 by rafallus
samspade Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 It's all about patience and escalation - verbal and physical. Unlike you, a man, most women want to be seduced emotionally before they give up their bodies. You have to ask questions - and not the standard boring ones. (Where are you from, what's your job, where do you live, etc.) These questions are boring. You want to push her buttons, emotionally, mentally. Ask her open-ended questions - the kind that get her to confess small details about herself. Eg, Check out some of these and use a few. You have to believe in what you're asking, though - look her in the eyes and own it. Then you let her talk. Remember to keep things light, make a few jokes (but don't be a clown), get her to laugh and help her to feel comfortable with you. Now - the physical - You do this in increments, my friend. Patience, patience, patience. There's nothing worse than a guy nervously zeroing in on a kiss a woman doesn't want after sitting on his hands all night. Ever have a female acquaintance touch your shoulder or back lightly? I bet you liked the way that felt. Start with something simple like that - you're walking or sitting down, you lightly and briefly put your hand on her shoulder. Keep it clean and proper - don't squeeze the Charmin. During your convo, you should periodically engage in kino (light touching). Touch her hand on top when you tell her something. Laugh at her joke - touch her knee. Do this briefly but without hesitation! These are the little steps you take, in addition to your conversation, that will get her pupils dilated and her heart aflutter. (No guarantees of course.) Throughout all of this, you read her body language. Is she licking her lips, leaning in, touching you back? Is she dropping minor sexual hints? Does she laugh at your jokes? Is she giving you deep answers or being matter of fact? A woman will TELL you when she wants you to kiss her - just not with words. When the moment's right - that's when you go in. When she knows she wants you to kiss her and so do you - and you do it - there's nothing finer. Just don't go overboard and be sloppy. Be the first to pull back and start talking (with a smile of course). And unless you're getting MAJOR interest in something more, it's always smart to end the date with her wanting more. Patience pays - sexual tension is what you want. EDIT - this is in addition to the great advice posted above. May have repeated what EasyHeart said.
CambridgeGirl Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 "You must touch kinda in sync with your conversation. ie. you don't break out 5 mins of awkward silence with random "hey, let's make out". Still laughing hard at this, gonna have to go away and laugh it off
oaks Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 1) I have this super super intense fear of coming off like a creep on a date, which makes me scared as all hell to show any kind of physical interest, like the thread title says. There are some great answers already. Looking specifically at the physical side of things, don't be afraid to touch her hand, arm, shoulder or back. It should be brief, at first, and move your hand away again. Do this when you're talking with her and and making a specific point (ie, use the touch as a gentle punctuation mark to emphasise what you are saying) or when you get to the punchline of a joke, or perhaps when you're laughing at one of her jokes. You might include a knee in that list, but start somewhere else first. If you're walking with her, gently (and briefly) touching her back probably won't get you in to trouble. If you're walking behind her and she's sitting down (eg because you're going back to the bar to get more drinks) then her shoulder is about at the same level as your hand... You won't come off like a creep. Obviously you should back off if she tells you to, or if she recoils in horror, but dating isn't a no-contact sport.
Author Red Arremer Posted June 1, 2011 Author Posted June 1, 2011 There are some great answers already. Looking specifically at the physical side of things, don't be afraid to touch her hand, arm, shoulder or back. It should be brief, at first, and move your hand away again. Do this when you're talking with her and and making a specific point (ie, use the touch as a gentle punctuation mark to emphasise what you are saying) or when you get to the punchline of a joke, or perhaps when you're laughing at one of her jokes. You might include a knee in that list, but start somewhere else first. If you're walking with her, gently (and briefly) touching her back probably won't get you in to trouble. If you're walking behind her and she's sitting down (eg because you're going back to the bar to get more drinks) then her shoulder is about at the same level as your hand... You won't come off like a creep. Obviously you should back off if she tells you to, or if she recoils in horror, but dating isn't a no-contact sport. I think the problem I have is that touching someone like that seems super unnatural to me, and since I can't feel natural doing it I feel creepy for even trying. And re: the earlier post asking what I meant by going nowhere, I mean I'm not getting any second dates. If I was confident in myself enough to even consider trying for first date sex I feel like I wouldn't be in this situation to begin with.
oaks Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 I think the problem I have is that touching someone like that seems super unnatural to me, and since I can't feel natural doing it I feel creepy for even trying. Think of something else that once you weren't comfortable doing with an audience but now you can do confidently. Maybe public speaking, or playing a sport or an instrument, or even driving a car. Terrifying the first time, but eventually you got the hang of it simply by doing more of it. This is the same. She's just a woman. She won't break or burst into flames or scream at you just because you touched her arm on a date. Try it.
zengirl Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 I think it all comes down to intention. If your intentions aren't creepy or purely physical, you probably won't come across as creepy. Maybe awkward if she's not into you, but not creepy.
alphamale Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 just get her hammered, booze is the ultimate truth serum
Feelin Frisky Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 Put your hand out with your palm facing her and fingers pointing toward the sky. If she high fives you it ain't happening. If she puts her palm against yours she's open to touch. That doesn't mean you can assume anything or move particularly quickly but I found it an ice breaker on a few occasions where it seemed like I could be sure that this wasn't the type to be hurtful in a rejection.
fishtaco Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 Play the "boys will be boys" card. Push till you hit the limit then stop, as in just go for it until told not to. Women don't mind if you bump up against their threshold, because boys will be boys, as long as you back off after. But if you don't take no as an answer, then you are a creep. And if she flips out just because you got close to her threshold, then she's psycho. Get out while you can.
oaks Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 Put your hand out with your palm facing her and fingers pointing toward the sky. This sounds good. I might try it.
Imajerk17 Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 This is really not the best place to come to for "dating advice" if you are a guy, Red Arremer. The PUA forums can help you much more than people on here can.
EasyHeart Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 You might want to try tweeting a picture of your weiner. I hear that chicks really dig that.
fishtaco Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 You might want to try tweeting a picture of your weiner. I hear that chicks really dig that. Don't fall for it. He just wants to see your weiner.
pilotDXB Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 You might want to try tweeting a picture of your weiner. I hear that chicks really dig that. Im thinking really hard of a brett favre joke but i cant
Author Red Arremer Posted June 2, 2011 Author Posted June 2, 2011 Only if you're a congressman though Thanks for all the advice so far btw.
Recommended Posts