SingVoice Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 So before anyone rags on me for this...let me clarify. I DO NOT have a problem contributing money to dates. AT ALL. I have been dating this guy a few weeks...on our first date...we went to a bar. He opened up a tab with his card...paid for our first drink...then I paid for the next 2...then him the next one. When I pulled out cash to pay for the drinks...he was not mad...but he definitely didn't want me to pay. But I thought it was only fair... The next couple of dates...he paid.(I offered money for one of the dates but he said no) We really just went out for coffee or drinks though. Last night...we went out for drinks again...and we were going to go to a movie. When the check came...he said "I think we should split this." It was maybe $40-45. I didn't have a problem paying my half...at all. I guess I was a little bit thrown off that he ASKED. Is this weird? I don't know if we are just at a more comfortable place where he felt it was ok. I don't know exactly what his financial situation is...and I feel like it is too soon to ask. I felt a little strange after he asked me just because I was so surprised. And like I said...I don't have a problem paying...but usually I offer...I'm not asked. Just want to get some thoughts on this....thanks guys!
Arikel Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 Could it be that he knew you were gonna offer/insist on paying, so he wanted to make sure he paid his share as well?
oaks Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 At the risk of belittling your problem, you were going to offer anyway, right?
Mrlonelyone Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 I don't think it means much. Remember what I said about the three F's that a man wants in a relationship? You have been feeding him and he wants you to keep feeding him. It's a good sign if it's anything. I guess he could be low on $$ and wanted to be sure you were ok with splitting it. As you can read here on LS allot of women insist that a man they are dating pay and only offer to split the check with men they aren't serious about. They would even go so far as to call going on a date and splitting the check a "hint" that they no longer want to date the man. That's something to think about while you are splitting the check. What meta message may you be unintentionally sending him? (Due to how other women have used splitting a check.)
carhill Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 Have you called him up and suggested any dates/times/places for dates? After a number of dates, it appears you are comfortable with him and interested in him, and perhaps he in you, so no harm in having an adult conversation about dating finance. By 'asking him out', you can lead in this particular way, since it is a topic of apparent concern to you.
Author SingVoice Posted May 31, 2011 Author Posted May 31, 2011 Well I haven't been offering the last couple of times because he wouldn't accept it. If he had paid though...and we actually HAD gone to the movie (we skipped it)...I would have offered to pay for that. I was under the impression that he was good financially...but I could be wrong. MrLonely- I get what you are saying. But I think since I told him I was serious about him...that probably isn't what he is thinking. Now that I think about it...most of our dates have been either drinks or coffee or whatever. We actually have not gone out to dinner. Maybe there is some financial thing going on...should I ask?? I feel like its none of my business though.
Sabali Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 He should have paid. If you can't handle the expenses of dating, you really should avoid dates that cost money. If you take a lady out, you simply should not ask her to pay anything once you are out or once the check arrives. If this is to be the setup, you should make her aware of it before you take her out.
kiss_andmakeup Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 While I've always offered to pay my share, even on the first few dates, I find that after the initial few dates and once things are a little bit more "consistent," it's especially important that the expenses be split. I suggest just trading dates. Splitting a check can be awkward for both parties and there's really no way around it. Having to have the whole "I owe this much and you owe this much" conversation can be a real mood-killer. Although the guy I'm dating now insisted on paying for our first few dates, we now seem to have a pretty nice pattern of alternating. He'll still pull out his wallet every time, but I'll say, "No, you got dinner last night, let me buy breakfast!" or something like that. He usually agrees, albeit reluctantly. But I think in reality he appreciates that I'm not acting like I'm a princess who deserves to have everything bought for me. Maybe the next time you do drinks and a movie, for example, you can say when the check for the drinks arrives, "I've got this! You can get movie tickets and snacks." Alternatively, if he offers to pay, say "Well, the movie and popcorn are on me!"
Feelsgoodman Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 He should have paid. If you can't handle the expenses of dating, you really should avoid dates that cost money. If you take a lady out, you simply should not ask her to pay anything once you are out or once the check arrives. If this is to be the setup, you should make her aware of it before you take her out. Go back to Mom's Basement and take that 1950s-style dating etiquette with you. That's where it rightfully belongs. To the OP: there is nothing odd about him asking to split the cheque. Initially, he insisted on paying because, I suppose, he was trying to be a gentleman. Or maybe he wanted to make sure you were genuine (many women would *offer* to split the check but then act all shocked and offended if the guy doesn't object) and was waiting for you to actually insist on paying half. The fact that you weren't offering to pick up the tab the last couple of dates probably made him think that you were getting comfortable with the idea of him paying for everything perpetually. That's why he felt he had to bring it up.
Author SingVoice Posted May 31, 2011 Author Posted May 31, 2011 Yeah I wouldn't mind alternating either.... I think I was just so surprised because the only other time someone I was dating asked me to pay for myself was when he was about to bail on me. Should I try to open the lines of communication regarding finances? I think he could tell I was a little surprised last night...because right after he asked me twice if everything was ok...and I said it was...and then he pulled me close and kissed me. We actually have GREAT communication normally...I have asked him for a couple of things that I have needed and he has been REALLY receptive...and he has done the same with me and I have been receptive. I guess I also feel a little thrown because now I don't know what to expect when we go out...I hate all this money stuff!!! LOL
Author SingVoice Posted May 31, 2011 Author Posted May 31, 2011 Go back to Mom's Basement and take that 1950s-style dating etiquette with you. That's where it rightfully belongs. To the OP: there is nothing odd about him asking to split the cheque. Initially, he insisted on paying because, I suppose, he was trying to be a gentleman. Or maybe he wanted to make sure you were genuine (many women would *offer* to split the check but then act all shocked and offended if the guy doesn't object) and was waiting for you to actually insist on paying half. The fact that you weren't offering to pick up the tab the last couple of dates probably made him think that you were getting comfortable with the idea of him paying for everything perpetually. That's why he felt he had to bring it up. I can understand that. But like I said...I DID pay for half of everything the first date. And the other couple of times I offered after...he said no. So I kind of felt like he was setting the "standard" as it were. If we had done something big...like dinner and THEN drinks or a movie...I absolutely would have insisted on paying for something.
Mrlonelyone Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 @Singvoice You are forgetting the role of the male ego. Old fashioned gender role expectations demand that the man pays. Like most people he probably buys those old fashioned expectations in total. In this mans life the expectation that he should pay and a woman who's serious about him would insist he pays has been reinforced by experience. This man is also a bit younger than you right? So he feels at a disadvantage already. I know you have told him you are serious but then many men deep down don't trust a womans words on these things. Too often they will say one thing one day and the exact opposite the next. If you want this man to know you are totally 100% serious you will have to fulfill that old fashioned female gender role and let him pay for all of it IF he has you out. If all he can afford is drinks all you'll get are drinks. You have to let your boy feel like a man. Since for most gender normative males that is a HUGE part of their ego and self image. @Sabali Yes asker pays is another common way of looking at this. Since the male is expected to ask effectively its the same old system.
kiss_andmakeup Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 Yeah I wouldn't mind alternating either.... I think I was just so surprised because the only other time someone I was dating asked me to pay for myself was when he was about to bail on me. Should I try to open the lines of communication regarding finances? I think he could tell I was a little surprised last night...because right after he asked me twice if everything was ok...and I said it was...and then he pulled me close and kissed me. We actually have GREAT communication normally...I have asked him for a couple of things that I have needed and he has been REALLY receptive...and he has done the same with me and I have been receptive. I guess I also feel a little thrown because now I don't know what to expect when we go out...I hate all this money stuff!!! LOL I think "having a talk about finances" is way too heavy for a few weeks in. The best way is to just bring it into play when the time comes. So, the next time you two go out, assuming it's not some lavish outing you can't afford alone, say when the check comes, "How about I get this one, and you can get the next one?" He'll likely be relieved to have the pressure off of him (guys have enough pressure in dating about what's right and wrong to do, especially when it comes to money) and find it a much nicer alternative than the awkward check-splitting.
Author SingVoice Posted May 31, 2011 Author Posted May 31, 2011 See that's what I used to think MrLonely. I was trying to feel him out in the beginning because as a woman you really never know what the expectations are. He seemed content to pay.... That being said...so then if he ASKED me to split it with him...does that mean he is losing interest or something? The date was fantastic...just like all the other ones...so deep down I really don't think that is it....but who knows. Yes this is the younger guy...and thats why I was sort of feeling things out in the beginning because I didn't want to emasculate him but I also didn't want him to think I was just after his money since he's becoming a lawyer.
Mrlonelyone Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 Yeah you have to be very careful early on to let him be the man and not be maternal towards him in any way....yet. If he was not interested or loosing interest he would stop asking you out and fade away or just say so. I like to think that most men are more straightforward and don't hint but I could be wrong. Just imagine what he's asking his friends and relatives and what they are saying to him. BF"I have been dating this woman for a few weeks and she keeps insisting on paying or wanting to pay what does that mean?" Pick up artist doucebag type friend :"Listen bro a woman only lets you pay if her interest level is below 50% drop that **** and move on to a woman who will let you be the man." BF's father:"Son in my day I used to take your mother out to the Rexall drug store for a frothy chocolate malted and a movie for $0.55 and she always let me pay. Then we'd go up to lovers lane and...." BF's mother:"I dont know son in my day men used to always insist that the woman pay and I only carried some 'mad money' in my purse. The only time I paid on a date was if I was 'mad' and wanted to get the heck out of there." (This is something my own mother described doing to me granted she was born in 1945). BF's bleeding heart liberal, vegan, tree hugger, animal rights, nutbag, ecoterrorist, friend:" Oh she's just a liberated and modern woman doing what liberated and modern women do. The old idea that men should pay on dates comes from a time where women were viewed as property to be bought and sold and sex was owed to men by women. Take her words at face value and let her pay for at least half of every date. She knew you were a younger man with fewer resources and knew what she was getting. (Ok maybe I'm being just a little bit trollish with the last one ) Oh and whatever you do don't ask him about his money. You aren't his wife and it could send up a red flag to him. He may pull out his Michale Corleone on you
carhill Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 'I enjoy the time we're spending together and would like to continue. My thoughts on handling the costs of our dating are x, y, z. How do you feel about that?'
Sabali Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 Go back to Mom's Basement and take that 1950s-style dating etiquette with you. That's where it rightfully belongs. Go back? Lol...I never leave! The issue is that I our society still has traditions that are rooted in the 1950's and earlier. There are certain expectation that reside even though we are moving towards more "modern" traditions. The men are expected to pay. Period. Women are not usually asked to do it and as the OP said, she was surprised to be asked and she usually offers. This mean many men are still not asking her to pay during the dating phase and she is given a chance to offer without the guy even asking her to do so. It is because of this, if you do not ask the woman to pay half of the date before taking her out, it is a bad move and that is why I said "If this is to be the setup, you should make her aware of it before you take her out." Did you read that part, son? The question is does your radically abrupt overhaul of dating traditions in our society get you anywhere meaningful in the dating world? Don't take my word for it, ask the women that you know if they expect men to pay or not during the dating or "courting" phase of a relationship. Afterward, ask your fellow men if they pay for the dates during this phase or ask the women to split the bill right when the check arrives. Many women can actually pay half the bill these days and it won't put them in the poor house. It's not about the money. It's about the principal which is rooted in tradition. You are dismissed.
Feelsgoodman Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 The question is does your radically abrupt overhaul of dating traditions in our society get you anywhere meaningful in the dating world? Don't take my word for it, ask the women that you know if they expect men to pay or not during the dating or "courting" phase of a relationship. Afterward, ask your fellow men if they pay for the dates during this phase or ask the women to split the bill right when the check arrives. Many women can actually pay half the bill these days and it won't put them in the poor house. It's not about the money. It's about the principal which is rooted in tradition. You are dismissed. This so-called "radical abrupt overhaul" has actually been going on for decades, though it may have been hard to notice from Mom's Basement. Going dutch is hardly considered "radical" these days, although in some areas and among certain demographic groups, habitual adherence to outdated behavioural norms is still strong. It is true that some women still expect to be "taken care of". From my experience, most do not. You are free to date women who fall in the former category. I personally have no interest in dating such women. I don't think that makes me a radical, though you are, of course, entitled to your own opinion. We live in a period of transition. Some people are more willing to embrace change than others. It's not uncommon for people like yourself to resist change and look up to outdated social conventions as a source of comfort. But despite your protestations, it is clear that the concept of "courting" is a product of a bygone era that makes little sense in today's society. It is already on its last legs and will disappear within a generation. Just look at the 25 and under demographic: young people hardly even go on dates anymore. They "hang out". It's a different world out there, pops
Mme. Chaucer Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 My guess (it's a guess!) is that he's been socialized towards believing that men pay for dates, but is "awakening" to the fact that this does not have to be the case, in part due to your offering to pay sometimes. He might have been thinking that this in fact is a good and fair thing that he wouldn't mind doing himself, and now he has got the nerve up to propose it to you. Really, it is a confusing quagmire. I wouldn't have known it if it weren't for LoveShack, with all the guys on here hating on women who "expect" guys to pay for their dates and other guys saying that men who let women pay are somehow "unmanned." All these behaviors and roles that used to be quite clearly defined so anybody could understand the rules are now completely up for individual interpretation, and lots of times egos are involved where they need not be.
TheyCallMeBruce Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 I absolutely loathe letting a woman pay on a date. It makes me incredibly uncomfortable, and I avoid it at all costs.
Author SingVoice Posted May 31, 2011 Author Posted May 31, 2011 My guess (it's a guess!) is that he's been socialized towards believing that men pay for dates, but is "awakening" to the fact that this does not have to be the case, in part due to your offering to pay sometimes. He might have been thinking that this in fact is a good and fair thing that he wouldn't mind doing himself, and now he has got the nerve up to propose it to you. Really, it is a confusing quagmire. I wouldn't have known it if it weren't for LoveShack, with all the guys on here hating on women who "expect" guys to pay for their dates and other guys saying that men who let women pay are somehow "unmanned." All these behaviors and roles that used to be quite clearly defined so anybody could understand the rules are now completely up for individual interpretation, and lots of times egos are involved where they need not be. I think this is a very good point. And actually earlier in the night we were talking about how our views on dating had changed over the years...and I mentioned that a few years ago I would have always expected the man to pay...but now I don't feel that way. I don't know if that was some kind of relief to him and THAT is why he asked me to split it...or if he was trying to abide by my wishes and let me share the cost. I'm not sure.
Author SingVoice Posted May 31, 2011 Author Posted May 31, 2011 I absolutely loathe letting a woman pay on a date. It makes me incredibly uncomfortable, and I avoid it at all costs. Why does it make you uncomfortable? What if your financial situation was not that great? (not sure if that is the case with the guy but just curious)
Imajerk17 Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 I never "split the check". That sounds too business-like. I do expect the woman to treat me at least every third time or so though, as in take the bill when it comes and say that it is on her. If you haven't done this, then this might be why he asked you to split. In fact, I suspect that you have not been doing this; if you have, you would have picked up the bill and offered to pay without him even having to ask you to split in the first place.
Author SingVoice Posted May 31, 2011 Author Posted May 31, 2011 I never "split the check". That sounds too business-like. I do expect the woman to treat me at least every third time or so though, as in take the bill when it comes and say that it is on her. If you haven't done this, then this might be why he asked you to split. In fact, I suspect that you have not been doing this; if you have, you would have picked up the bill and offered to pay without him even having to ask you to split in the first place. No you are right...I haven't done this...but I had intended on doing it at some point. Last night I didn't even get the chance because literally as soon as the bill came he said it. But like I said...I had paid for half of the first date...and he wouldn't let me pay for the next couple...so...I was sort of assuming he was comfortable taking care of things. It's just so hard to know!!! You don't know what he is expecting...and you don't know what to do. Some men will get offended if you try to pay...and some get offended if you don't! That's why I was trying to let him know I was open to chipping in...and see what his reactions were. When he didn't want me to pay...I assumed he just wanted to pay. So that's why I was surprised when he asked.
Sabali Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 Just look at the 25 and under demographic: young people hardly even go on dates anymore. They "hang out". It's a different world out there, pops That's daddy to you. I thought I told you that you were dismissed.
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