iris219 Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 Thinking about the traits of a good marriage have made me realize why I will probably never get married! I've also realized that I don't envy my friends' marriages, even the good ones. I have noticed patterns in the marriages of those who are happily married. They are, for the most part, logical and realistic people when it comes to their relationships. They understand things aren’t going to be perfect and they’ve chosen to accept way less than perfect. And it’s not a grin and bear it/resentful thing. Many of them made the decision to marry with their heads, not just their hearts. They are people who love each and respect each, but aren’t addicted to that “OMG, I’m so in love with you feeling, I can’t think about anything else” (I, on the other hand, won’t get in a relationship without this feeling). I think this might be key to a good marriage: being in love without being crazy in love. Many of them make a conscious and deliberate decision to make the marriage work, period. I often sense a bit of emotional detachment (and this isn’t necessarily a bad thing because it works for them). They also have their own lives. One couple I know frequently travels without the other and they have about the strongest marriage I can think of. As for moving quickly or not, I haven't seen a pattern. Basically, some did, some didn't. Many waited for the "right" time, like after grad school or after they both had secure jobs. The above refers to the few good marriages I know of. I know of (or knew of, as several of my friends have gotten divorced) many more unhealthy, hostile ones than good ones.
TokyoG33kyGal Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 Zengirl, I think my terminal relationship fits the pattern you've described. To an outsider, things moved quickly but to us the pace felt right. i was about to say the same thing then i read this not yet married (about to in a few months) but lemme see what i can share some people think our relationship is kind of a whirlwind romance but actually we were so careful with this relationship. i have been hurt badly in the past, my relationships have the same pattern, they usually end when we're almost thinking of getting married. either the boyfriend cheats when it gets to that level or i sense that i should bail before they put me in ball and chain. fiance's relationships were almost the same as mine lol. when we met, i wasn't really actively looking for a relationship. it just sort of happened because we have a lot in common. we're both afraid to just settle and marry for the sake of getting married. it might sound old-fashioned but i just want to get married once and if this doesn't work then i think i will date around and never get married again XD. he said the same thing. i guess for us, it was timing and compatibility. we both long to find "the one." he's single, i am single. we both learned from our pasts and that really helped to figure out if this is indeed a "terminal" relationship. i don't think there's an exact pattern. because most of my friends who got married was in a long-term relationship, like they were high-school sweethearts or something. my cousin got married to my friend, his childhood sweetheart, but only before they have broken up a lot of times, he enjoyed his time with other girls first then they have gotten back together
sunshinegirl Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 I have noticed patterns in the marriages of those who are happily married. They are, for the most part, logical and realistic people when it comes to their relationships. They understand things aren’t going to be perfect and they’ve chosen to accept way less than perfect. And it’s not a grin and bear it/resentful thing. Many of them made the decision to marry with their heads, not just their hearts. They are people who love each and respect each, but aren’t addicted to that “OMG, I’m so in love with you feeling, I can’t think about anything else” (I, on the other hand, won’t get in a relationship without this feeling). I think this might be key to a good marriage: being in love without being crazy in love. Many of them make a conscious and deliberate decision to make the marriage work, period. I often sense a bit of emotional detachment (and this isn’t necessarily a bad thing because it works for them). They also have their own lives. One couple I know frequently travels without the other and they have about the strongest marriage I can think of. With respect, are you not referring to the difference between lust and love? Are you saying your friends BEGAN relationship without that giddiness and/or that you won't STAY in a relationship unless you permanently feel the constant butterflies/can't-stop-thinking-about-you state of mind? I thought the conventional wisdom was that long-term relationships may start with the spark/giddiness/butterflies (i.e. lust), but within a couple of years grow/mature/change into a more stable/calm/deep feeling of attachment (i.e love). Do you have a different understanding or expectation of how you want to feel in a long-term relationship?
Author zengirl Posted May 31, 2011 Author Posted May 31, 2011 When you meet obviously factors in, but I think tigress pointed out how a college relationship can move along the same path, but mindful of age and lifestyle (i.e. marriage was put off, sure, but not that "knowing"). I guess my thought is that, "What if you know and then you're wrong?" I wouldn't say I *knew* with my last ex at all, but I often wondered if it'd be the "end of the line" so to speak. I could never bring myself to invest in believing it, because I thought thinking it and being wrong would basically lead to questioning everything I ever did or would do in any relationship. So I guess I worry I'll never "just know" if anything. And I wonder if you can have that without believing/knowing first. I don't think there is such a thing as "The One" person you are destined to marry. Nor do I, FTR. I think long-term/lifetime commitments are a combination of compatibility and timing. By "timing" I mean being at a place in the non-romantic part of your life (ie, school, career, family, friends, emotional development) that makes it possible for you to be available for a commitment. So I don't think it's possible to come up with patterns or an algorithm to define a good relationship. Ah, and yet timing itself is what brings the most "pattern" element. How do I spot men in that best time? How do I get myself to that best time? I get the compatibility thing, and I've met people who are compatible and seem to be narrowing that down nicely. But timing to me is a pattern I've not yet pinned down so well, yet a place I see patterns nonetheless. To be honest, I wouldn't be too worried about being "the Queen of Almost". If your relationships tend to be in the 3-12 month range, I think that's good. These are your "practice relationships" where you're figuring out what you want and need out of a partner. You (and the guys you're dating) are making mistakes and learning from them so you won't make them when you get into that terminal relationship. I'm not so worried about it, but after a few significant practice relationships, I'm kind of "over" the idea, I guess. I think I kind of prefer being single to another of those at this point. (Ironically, I'm not single, and I really dig the new BF and have no worries or particular designs on whether or not it's "terminal" in particular, so that's all theoretical.) And at 26, frankly, you're at the very beginning of your peak desirability to men, so there's no need to rush or feel like you're doing something wrong. Not every relationship is supposed to lead to marriage. If they did, half the movies and all the pop songs in the world would never have been created. I'm not worried about desirability. I just find creating more almost-right ex-boyfriends kind of tedious, I guess. And I also like patterns. Half of this is purely theoretical and just kind of a nerdy habit of trying to find patterns and statistics everywhere.
Kamille Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 The one common thread the respondents in relationships seem to share is that they didn't really enter their Rs with the idea of it being terminal in mind. If anything, for me, the timing element was that I was ready to accept someone in my life for who he was and for as long as he wanted to be there, without attaching any specific meaning to the potential outcomes. This relationship is so satisfying in the present that even if we grow apart in the future, I doubt I will feel it was a failure, or a waste of time. But then again, I certainly don't feel any of my past relationships were wastes of time any way (well, maybe with the exception of one of them... But even then, that one taught to not put up with bull****,so it wasn't a complete waste of time)
Author zengirl Posted May 31, 2011 Author Posted May 31, 2011 The one common thread the respondents in relationships seem to share is that they didn't really enter their Rs with the idea of it being terminal in mind. If anything, for me, the timing element was that I was ready to accept someone in my life for who he was and for as long as he wanted to be there, without attaching any specific meaning to the potential outcomes. This relationship is so satisfying in the present that even if we grow apart in the future, I doubt I will feel it was a failure, or a waste of time. But then again, I certainly don't feel any of my past relationships were wastes of time any way (well, maybe with the exception of one of them... But even then, that one taught to not put up with bull****,so it wasn't a complete waste of time) I guess I feel like they're becoming a waste of time at this point. Before, they used to teach me about myself, but my last one did really little of that. It was fun, sure, but it's kind of like how living abroad was---building a great life and friendship, only to pick it up again in a year, and never return to it again. I've spent the past 8 years in that kind of phase with everything, not just relationships, so I guess I'm more interested in spending the bulk of my energy on more lasting things (my friendships, my career, my hobbies, etc) right now is all. When I say it seems a "waste" I'm not bitter, just mindful that wherever I place my energy, it pulls it away from potential elsewhere. And I thought people in the thread were seeming to say the terminal Rs seemed "to know" very early, as is what I've seen with my friends as well, and something I've never felt (or allowed myself to feel?) before. So, that would be the opposite of what you say in terms of not entering it with that idea. I don't think you EVER enter a relationship knowing it'll work out, but the ones that do seemed to think so earlier than most.
Mme. Chaucer Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 I've had a few very serious relationships (lived together) and was married and divorced once. Now I believe I'm in a "terminal relationship." Which, I must say, sounds very dire. I'm probably not going to contribute very much to your query, because all I can really say is that in both the relationship that led to my marriage, and this one, I just kind of "knew." Looking back over my relationship history, I can say with certainty that the "knowing" was not present in any of my other relationships, though they were serious and long term. I was even engaged once and "knew" that I really was not ultimately going to be with that person. It was just a vague intuition - truly, if I had it figured out clearly and cerebrally I certainly would not have become engaged. The trajectories of the "terminal" (or faux terminal, as my marriage proved to be) were not notably different than the more transient turned out to be. The difference was very internal. Stuff just "clicked" and I almost had a a fatalistic attitude about the way things were going to go ... and I'm not really a proponent of magical thinking. Just as a side note, I have never really been much of a fan of "getting married" and all the societal weight of that institution, though I did it. At that time, I really wanted to make the public and private ceremonial bond with the person with whom I'd been through so much (we had a 5 year old daughter and both he and I had "recovered" from serious drug addictions, as well as overcoming lots of other tremendous hurdles). With my current relationship, even though I am now middle aged and am not in a "life building" place (we are building plenty of stuff, but at this phase it's more like maintenance than it was back in raising kid, buying house, earning more $$ days) I find myself wishing again to make this bond "official" through marriage. Why? I guess that I'm a big fan of symbolism in all forms. I want us to take a public stand for our union. I want to vow in front of my man, God and society that I do "have his back" forever, and demonstrate my faith that he has mine. Probably because I've cohabited with a few of my boyfriends over the years, I wish to designate this as different altogether.
Author zengirl Posted May 31, 2011 Author Posted May 31, 2011 I've had a few very serious relationships (lived together) and was married and divorced once. Now I believe I'm in a "terminal relationship." Which, I must say, sounds very dire. I'm probably not going to contribute very much to your query, because all I can really say is that in both the relationship that led to my marriage, and this one, I just kind of "knew." Looking back over my relationship history, I can say with certainty that the "knowing" was not present in any of my other relationships, though they were serious and long term. I was even engaged once and "knew" that I really was not ultimately going to be with that person. It was just a vague intuition - truly, if I had it figured out clearly and cerebrally I certainly would not have become engaged. The trajectories of the "terminal" (or faux terminal, as my marriage proved to be) were not notably different than the more transient turned out to be. The difference was very internal. Stuff just "clicked" and I almost had a a fatalistic attitude about the way things were going to go ... and I'm not really a proponent of magical thinking. Just as a side note, I have never really been much of a fan of "getting married" and all the societal weight of that institution, though I did it. At that time, I really wanted to make the public and private ceremonial bond with the person with whom I'd been through so much (we had a 5 year old daughter and both he and I had "recovered" from serious drug addictions, as well as overcoming lots of other tremendous hurdles). With my current relationship, even though I am now middle aged and am not in a "life building" place (we are building plenty of stuff, but at this phase it's more like maintenance than it was back in raising kid, buying house, earning more $$ days) I find myself wishing again to make this bond "official" through marriage. Why? I guess that I'm a big fan of symbolism in all forms. I want us to take a public stand for our union. I want to vow in front of my man, God and society that I do "have his back" forever, and demonstrate my faith that he has mine. Probably because I've cohabited with a few of my boyfriends over the years, I wish to designate this as different altogether. Good stuff - I disagree with your early assessment of not being able to contribute much! I especially like to hear that you are not a "just know" sort of person and yet you have. I worry that I am not that sort, but maybe I will. I, too, have been engaged --- once to a man who I believe I would still be married to had we gotten there (he was killed in a car accident) and once to a man I wished I wanted to marry --- and lived with boyfriends. But, except for my HS sweetheart maybe, who I didn't know enough even to "just know" (I think it was different because he was the "only" not the "last" so much) and who died, I've never "just known." I think my views of marriage are much like yours. I simply find it a way to distinguish a promise to maintain a relationship seriously, and I'm kind of into symbolism. But I didn't want to limit it to strictly marriage! I know "terminal" sounds dire, but maybe that's why I kind of like it. Better than something that sounds all sappy and fated, like "life partner" or "the one" or whatnot at least.
carhill Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 Replacing 'terminal' with 'life-long', I generally have a real good indication after a month or two of dating. Even the best performers give clues to compatibility early on. With some, the process took a bit longer, and those resulted in moderate term relationships of a year or so. With one, I thought I had it right, but was wrong in the end. I don't pair bond to pass the time of day so a lifelong relationship is always on my mind when dating or meeting new female potentials. I've got a great group of friends to hang with and a loyal cat at home and am not interested in casual sex. I visualize myself pushing this person's wheelchair around in my twilight years and decide whether the balance of how I feel and how I view compatibility is congruent with that vision. I actually explained this process to my exW as I was showering and toileting my mom while I was caring for her. I said 'Watch carefully. This is how I will take care of you when you grow old and infirm or become ill like she has'. Evidently, she found my quality of care lacking
Mme. Chaucer Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 I visualize myself pushing this person's wheelchair around in my twilight years and decide whether the balance of how I feel and how I view compatibility is congruent with that vision. I actually explained this process to my exW as I was showering and toileting my mom while I was caring for her. I said 'Watch carefully. This is how I will take care of you when you grow old and infirm or become ill like she has'. Evidently, she found my quality of care lacking Don't mean to TJ - but I might anyway! For me, being at the age I am now has really changed my perspectives on this type of stuff. Including what you posted about "not pair bonding to pass the time." As I am today, I would NEVER spend very much time in any kind of relationship that I did not view as potentially "terminal." I've been knowing fast in ALL my dating experiences post - divorce. When I was younger, though it was not conscious or intentional, I guess I was kind of a "serial monogamist" until I got together with my former husband. When I was younger, too, I did not think about caring for another person (or being on the receiving end of such care) in age and infirmity. Now such thoughts are very much present. Like you, Carhill, I cared for my mother physically through the end of her life, and I was also present at the death of my dad. Some of my age peers are already going through bad health issues that often come with age, like cancer. All of this really brings home the truth of our mortality, and the necessity of considering that part of our lives when joining up with another person "terminally."
carhill Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 Perhaps the scourge of the 'terminal' mindset is the lack of compatible partners at a young age, when many/most people are generally thinking only of the here and now and what satisfies/motivates/speaks to them in the moment. I faced this a lot in my 20's; less so in my 30's. I found single mothers to generally be more compatible in that regard. The realities of life were square in their face every day. All of my MTR's were with single moms. What eventually broke those potential terminal relationships down was a lack of congruence regarding situational prioritization. I was socialized with the marriage being the central focus of the family and, for them, children were/are the central focus, globally, so we were incompatible long-term in that regard, for marriage anyway. It took time to discern this, hence MTR.
EasyHeart Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 The one common thread the respondents in relationships seem to share is that they didn't really enter their Rs with the idea of it being terminal in mind.This has certainly been true for me. Often, when I met someone who seemed perfect, things went nowhere. And pretty much all of my serious relationships have been with women whom I initially thought of as flings or that I didn't like very much. Of course, it could also just be that I'm a dumbass. . . . I guess I feel like they're becoming a waste of time at this point. Before, they used to teach me about myself, but my last one did really little of that. It was fun, sure, but it's kind of like how living abroad was---building a great life and friendship, only to pick it up again in a year, and never return to it again. I've spent the past 8 years in that kind of phase with everything, not just relationships, so I guess I'm more interested in spending the bulk of my energy on more lasting things (my friendships, my career, my hobbies, etc) right now is all. When I say it seems a "waste" I'm not bitter, just mindful that wherever I place my energy, it pulls it away from potential elsewhere. Ahhh, it sounds like you're feeling a little dating burnout. Back when I was in my late 20s (after I had just broken up with someone), I realized that I had never been without a girlfriend since I was about 16 -- as soon as I broke up with one woman, I would go looking for a new one, and I'd have a new girlfriend in a few weeks. So I decided to swear off women for six months. I promised myself that no matter what -- even if I met the most awesome woman ever -- I would not have anything to do with women. After six months, I was feeling so good that it ended up being almost a year before I went on another date and (here's the important part) it was pretty much the best thing I ever did. I realized i didn't need a girlfriend, I had lots to do by myself and with my friends, and when I started dating again I enjoyed it more and I think I was a much better boyfriend. (Yes, I know "dating breaks" are common now, but this was a loooooong time ago!!! I invented the idea, dammit!!!)
iris219 Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 Are you saying your friends BEGAN relationship without that giddiness and/or that you won't STAY in a relationship unless you permanently feel the constant butterflies/can't-stop-thinking-about-you state of mind? Yes to the first part of your question. Many of the most highly functional couples I know began without the lust/giddiness (at least on the female's part, as they're my friends and we've talked about it. I don't know how the husbands felt). I won't GET in a relationship unless I feel the above. I understand it's not lasting, but I need it at the beginning, whereas I have friends who don't. If they like someone as a person, have fun with them, have similar values and goals, don't mind having sex with the guy, they're happy. I have a close friend in a "good" marriage (in that it works well and I can't imagine them ever divorcing) who says she has learned to love her husband. I'm not sure I could do this.
Kamille Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 I admit the "you just know" concept used to give me grief. My mom claims she knew she and my dad were meant to be the moment she laid eyes on him. So I'm not discounting it. But having such a romantic mother certainly did me a disservice when I started dating. I always thought things were meant to be and have often had the "I just know" this is going to work out feeling, only to have my heart broken a few months down the line. So I eventually decided the concepts of "knowing" and "the one" were tripping me up instead of helping, and chucked them aside. But I guess they work for others. What I can say about Bf is that I never "not knew". The more I got to know him, the more I realized we made sense together. I still feel giddy sometimes when he does little things that remind me of just how compatible we are. Now that I'm with him, I don't understand why I put up with some of my exes' antics. My current relationship is easy and has always been easy. So no, I'm not advocating putting up with bull**** or settling for relationships that are "almost" right. But I think what's more important than discerning patterns is getting to know someone for who they are and taking it from there, while always being true to oneself.
sunshinegirl Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 Yes to the first part of your question. Many of the most highly functional couples I know began without the lust/giddiness (at least on the female's part, as they're my friends and we've talked about it. I don't know how the husbands felt). I won't GET in a relationship unless I feel the above. I understand it's not lasting, but I need it at the beginning, whereas I have friends who don't. If they like someone as a person, have fun with them, have similar values and goals, don't mind having sex with the guy, they're happy. I have a close friend in a "good" marriage (in that it works well and I can't imagine them ever divorcing) who says she has learned to love her husband. I'm not sure I could do this. Ahh, got it. Thanks for clarifying. I'm surprised to hear that some of your friends' happy marriages seem to have started without spark! No way could I do that. Oddly, when I first met my H, I didn't feel any spark, and ours is one of the less common stories where I friend-zoned him for a few months before realizing how awesome he is, and growing to feel the spark. Had I not felt the impulse of "I must kiss this man!" there is no way I would have contemplated marrying him. HOWEVER, I will say that at first I felt really unsure about whether I saw him as a romantic prospect and in that sense I *did* talk myself into spending time with him to explore that possibility. After spending a bunch of one-on-one time with him (several dates where I wouldn't let him kiss me goodnight but I got to know him more and more), boom, big time spark.
Author zengirl Posted May 31, 2011 Author Posted May 31, 2011 Ahh, got it. Thanks for clarifying. I'm surprised to hear that some of your friends' happy marriages seem to have started without spark! No way could I do that. Oddly, when I first met my H, I didn't feel any spark, and ours is one of the less common stories where I friend-zoned him for a few months before realizing how awesome he is, and growing to feel the spark. Had I not felt the impulse of "I must kiss this man!" there is no way I would have contemplated marrying him. HOWEVER, I will say that at first I felt really unsure about whether I saw him as a romantic prospect and in that sense I *did* talk myself into spending time with him to explore that possibility. After spending a bunch of one-on-one time with him (several dates where I wouldn't let him kiss me goodnight but I got to know him more and more), boom, big time spark. I've dated friends who initially didn't spark me, but later did. Not that any were "terminal" but I don't think when chemistry comes has any bearing on the patterns, as I've seen it. I know some couples who had BOOM-WOW chemistry from the beginning and seem forever-styled and some where the gal put the guy off for awhile who seem the same. I don't know any couples where the guy was indifferent in the beginning and it worked out, though. Personally, if I don't feel the spark, I don't date a guy. But past few years, I've simply told a guy that and offered to be friends if they were someone I'd be friends with or not if not. A few of those friends have sparked later; it happens. I think chemistry ebbs and flows with our own sense of self. I'm not one to be "crazy" in love. I don't know if that comes from being near-widowed (again, with the almosts; ironic, I think) when I was 19. I don't think even with my HS sweetheart, I felt "crazy" in love. I don't find myself capable of losing myself----perhaps because I'm the child of divorce, and though I saw a great marriage in childhood (Mom/Stepdad), I also saw the importance of becoming a whole, awesome person first, as my Mom and I went through a year together, just us, and it's one of my earlier memories. Or maybe it's simply the way my neurons and such are sewn together. My mother would say she's never been "crazy" in love either. Wrong in love, sure, but never truly drunk on it. I've been drenched in love "chemicals" many a time, but it never seems to make me crazy. Sometimes I wish it would! I cannot imagine these women who suddenly seem to think only of a guy, and become completely changed by one, and yet I've seen women who seem very foreign to that concept go just that way.
threebyfate Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 In reading this thread and from my own experiences, there's no discernible pattern beyond knowing that this person is right for you. If you consider how everyone is different due to their foundations and experiences, each person will have their own sense of what coming home feels like. Factor in the same set of criteria for the other person and there will be a unique pattern to each couple. We exchanged ILYs within our first month and he proposed at 6+ weeks. Had someone said this would happen to me this quickly, I would have told them they were nuts. We sparked big time during our first meeting. That spark hasn't died and we've gone through an accidental pregnancy during our engagement period and a subsequent quasi-elopement in that we had to cancel our original wedding. For some couples, this would have caused their relationship to deteriorate considering our marriage started out with being pregnant then having our little boy, but with us, it's brought us even closer together. He's the man for me for the rest of my life. No fear.
OliveOyl Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 When I first separated 1.5 years ago, I was so relieved to be out from under the stress and strain of a marriage that wasn't working. I really, seriously thought I never wanted to live with a man again, much less get married. I was very negative about the institution of marriage. Living "alone" (with kids) was so refreshing... lonely at times, but refreshing. (I lived alone for a long period of time before I met my ex so I'm very used to it.) The scenario I played in my head that sounded ideal was to have a long-term/permanent, non-live in BF. When I decided to put up an online dating profile, that's what I had in mind. That's why I am shocked that with my new BF I find myself thinking various long term thoughts - including imagining cohabitation and/or eventual marriage. I think it is way too soon to even think about this stuff but these thoughts have been springing up nonetheless, unbidden. I am not sure whether it is because he may be the next "One" or that I still have all the social programming to want to make a relationship "terminal." I do know that would not cohabitate/marry someone who I had not seen go through various stresses of living. I would need to see them when they're irritated, stressed, overwhelmed, and angry over a period of time. I wish there was some sort of "obstacle course" because people try so hard to be on their best behavior for so long, but it is really the time that they are NOT on their best behavior that is so telling.
SmileFace Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 Any thoughts, patterns, ideas anyone wants to share. I've noticed some patterns lately. For instance, I think they move quickly but not too quickly. Every person I know who's happily married said they wanted to say "ILY" before the third month and definitely said it before six months (usually closer to 3), for instance. I don't know why I've gotten "marriage statistics." I suppose because I'm the Queen of Almost, generally----of relationships that are great, healthy, lovely, but don't last for seemingly small reasons, and I'm hoping not to have too many more "almosts" along the way, hoping to learn something. Anyway, any thoughts are welcome. Patterns are especially interesting to me! I don't understand how anyone can see a pattern. Think of it like a business. My business may have been started from scratch and yours may be a franchise but guess what? They can both still end or succeed. I am not saying true love doesn't exist but marriage and terminal relationships are completely two different things. I don't think people should look for patterns, since you can't see what is not there. However people should live day to day and enjoy that one when he or she comes along. You said you wanted outsider comments. Nothing more outside than a girl who doesn't believe in either.
Woggle Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 I know we are just five years in but I really feel like my current marriage will last. I knew because she made me change my mind on marriage in and of itself. I remember jokingly telling a friend of mine shortly after my divorce to shoot me for my own good if I ever think about getting married again but that all changed when I met my current wife and I dated plenty of women in between marriages. The friend and I were joking about that at a BBQ this past weekend when I was telling him how lucky I am.
eerie_reverie Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 I'm 25 and at that place in my life where all my mid-twenties - mid-thirties friends are starting to get engaged. They were all single when I met them, and ALL of the "terminal" R's moved FAST (serious right off the bat, engaged within less than a year).
Author zengirl Posted June 1, 2011 Author Posted June 1, 2011 I don't understand how anyone can see a pattern. Think of it like a business. My business may have been started from scratch and yours may be a franchise but guess what? They can both still end or succeed. I am not saying true love doesn't exist but marriage and terminal relationships are completely two different things. I don't think people should look for patterns, since you can't see what is not there. However people should live day to day and enjoy that one when he or she comes along. You said you wanted outsider comments. Nothing more outside than a girl who doesn't believe in either. I don't see why looking for patterns could be harmful. I can look for them in business though. I don't know that I believe in "true love" (depends on what that means) but I guess I think all things have patterns. I'm 25 and at that place in my life where all my mid-twenties - mid-thirties friends are starting to get engaged. They were all single when I met them, and ALL of the "terminal" R's moved FAST (serious right off the bat, engaged within less than a year). I've noticed some big step within that time period, but plenty of my friends either lived together for a long time (but either had kids or owned property together/shared bank accounts so basically were married) or had long engagements. A lot of times to save up for the weddings or because the wedding itself wasn't a big deal to them. So, I agree, but not so much in the engagement/marriage part, as that's not part of everyone's plan, I guess. That said, I don't know a single successfully long-term "terminal" couple where either party is dead-set against the idea of marriage. It's more a "Oh, we'll get to that, it's no big deal, we're basically already married" sort of thing rather than a "Who needs a stupid sort of paper?" or "Marriage is antiquated" sort of thing. Excepting a few gay couples I know who WANT to get married but can't here.
EasyHeart Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 Zengirl: Do you want to get married (or otherwise enter into some terminal relationship)? If so (here comes the big question), why?
Graceful Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 I'm mostly looking for "observations" from people who AREN'T yet there, honestly. To see what they think it looks like from the outside. So, it's okay if the people themselves aren't in the "terminal" relationship. I'd still like to hear any thoughts they might have! Hi zengirl, I haven't read many of the responses (I'll go back and read them when I have more time, as this is interesting to me, also) but if you're looking for observations, I have one that I see repeatedly, and I think it holds water. Many, many people who come out of a LTR that had been getting stale, the couple was in a rut, and even though the couple got along fine, the commitment to take it to marriage either wasn't there, or the two people just got too complacent to want to bother, the spark was gone, etc. and finally acknowledged -- move on VERY fast. In those instances, I have seen people move on VERY FAST, find their future marriage partner, and get engaged (easily) within a year following the breakup. The marriages in those instances have been very successful, and in fact, if a baby was desired, a baby comes along also very fast. I have seen this many, many times, and it's happened to some of my friends and co-workers, and one of my siblings. It's as though they knew they had to leave the LTR to find the right person, and when they finally did, there was real clarity about the end of the LTR, no delay in dating, and the desire to date and find the right person was up front. Many couples who live together for a period of time, or have a LTR that isn't really going anywhere very often are just being lazy about their r/l, and don't have the guts to leave, even though they really want a marriage, and not just a LTR. When (and if) they finally break it off, these people are totally ready for marriage somehow, which defies the fact they stayed in the LTR as long as they did. They know what they want, and they don't hesitate to go out and find it (and they're not rebounding; they are done and done with the LTR). Hope this is what you were looking for.
Mme. Chaucer Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 I'm 25 and at that place in my life where all my mid-twenties - mid-thirties friends are starting to get engaged. They were all single when I met them, and ALL of the "terminal" R's moved FAST (serious right off the bat, engaged within less than a year). There might be a significant aspect of the right time for a "terminal" relationship that could even supersede the person one has it with?
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