trapped

[silverton]

I feel I am in a trap and could do with all the help I can get

 

I don’t know here to begin; it just seems to hit me from all directions all at once, so that I end up stunned. It’s like being ambushed. I am generally good at dealing with conflicts, in a business sense but not so well in a relationship with some one that suits more tender feelings. It seems like nothing can be done. I’ve begged her to see a counselor, but she dismisses this as nothing they can help us with. General themes of the arguments are usually so petty and trivial but of course represent deeper distrust and problems.

 

Unfortunately, we don’t have sex, that’s another example of something that’s never sorted out form the first night, and the constant barrage of yelling, prosecution and tension ever since has not helped much. She claims there’s no emotional connection, and that she can’t talk to me about anything, and that I am “not interested in people”. But I think this is a bit pre-judged. Everything is put in black and white harsh insulting terms. There are no good times, like when she fell pregnant; it was accompanied by the news that she’s “going to get another man to raise my child”. I feel like she’s forever testing me on her own terms and that I never measure up.

 

In particular, she disowns all responsibility for sorting anything out, “there are no solutions”, makes a setting where I’m the dysfunctional inadequate one and she just has to tolerate me, and make the most of her bad situation. I want things to move on or else get some sort of closure on it. It is impossible for me to stop existence and stay in this state of forever going nowhere in a state of doubt and dissatisfaction

 

It all raises a broader question of what is there that keeps us together, well there’s a beautiful child and the responsibility that goes with it. There’s also, on neutral topics a great understanding and interest in one another’s views. I provide for her, and she’s kept in comfort, I think that has something to do with it, but I guess I am attracted to the sense of unison and wish to build our lives together, and this is not easy to let go off. But day to day life is becoming so bad and it’s becoming hard to function at all. I long for a break from all this and frankly would be way happier apart. I think our child would be better of with 2 happy parents living apart, than two together in tension

 

We’ve been defacto 5 years, and are in our mid forties.

 

Please comment

[Citizen-d]

Well if she won't go to MC and there is a lack of sex I would suggest she is seeing someone else!

 

If she is not then you lay down some steps you want to see and if she still refuses then shock her into sugesting a divorce!!

 

Take control

[silverton]

<<Well if she won't go to MC and there is a lack of sex I would suggest she is seeing someone else!>>

 

It might lead to that, but she's honest in many respects and brazen, she'd say if she's planning to and yes she does mention this, but then again she always has. Or, its part of the off-again, on-again threaten to leave process.

 

<<If she is not then you lay down some steps you want to see and if she still refuses then shock her into sugesting a divorce!!

 

Too late! She's alreadly done this to me! She was previously always talking about leaving, it's too casual. Then she got me talking about it, so now it's all meaningless talk

 

<<Take control

 

I'd like to! It’s basically impossible to discuss anything. It all turns into a pile of slop, 12 different tangents all emerge at the same time and the combination of accusations, insults and demands are all too different to deal with and just seem to leave me shell-shocked.

 

The first words I say are taken, like a footballer grabbing the ball and running of with it into some other direction, completely out of context and off topic. I literally can’t get 3 words out without this happening. I think she might intend to listen but basically has no patience or attention span and thinks everything I say is ‘just drivel’ so not worth listening to anyhow and she always ‘knows what I’m going to say’ anyhow so no need to stop long enough to listen to it.

 

She is, by her own confession, a master at the ‘bait and reel’em in’ play. So leaving is not easy.

[Downtown]

Silverton, welcome to the LoveShack forum. You are describing some of the classic behavioral traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). I am not suggesting your W has the full blown disorder itself. Only a professional can make that determination. Instead, I am suggesting she may have mild to strong BPD traits. Even when these traits fall well short of the diagnostic criteria for "having BPD," they can undermine a marriage. I therefore will describe several of the traits that seem to apply. If this description sounds familiar, I would encourage you to read more about BPD traits so you can recognize all nine red flags.

Everything is put in black and white harsh insulting terms.

Black-white thinking is one of the hallmarks of having strong BPD traits. It is most evident in the way a BPDer (person with strong traits) categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad." Moreover, she will re-categorize someone from one extreme category to the other -- in only ten seconds -- based on a small infraction or idle comment. She does this because she is extremely uncomfortable dealing with gray areas and ambiguities. This behavior arises from a BPDer's tendency to do "splitting" whenever she is stressed (which usually is most of the time). Splitting occurs when, to eliminate ambiguities, she splits off certain parts of her feelings so she is consciously in touch with only one set of feelings (e.g., love you or hate you) at a time. The result is that a BPDer can be showing affection for days and then instantly -- as though flipping a switch -- start hating you.

its part of the off-again, on-again threaten to leave process.... She is, by her own confession, a master at the ‘bait and reel’em in’ play. So leaving is not easy.

Another hallmark of BPD traits is the push-away and pull-back cycle that repeats endlessly (or until she eventually splits you black permanently, as my exW did me). This cycle arises from a BPDer's two great fears: engulfment (from intimacy) and abandonment. Because a BPDer has a weak, fragile self image, she feels engulfed and suffocated whenever you draw close to her. To get breathing space, she will push you away by creating meaningless arguments over nothing.

 

Yet, as you back off to give her breathing room, you cannot avoid triggering her other great fear, abandonment. Hence, within weeks -- if not days -- she will start reeling you back in by being extra sweet and caring. Of course, as you draw close, the cycle begins anew. Significantly, there is no Goldilocks position midway between "too close" and "too far away" where you can avoid triggering both of the fears. I can confidently say that after having searched for it for 15 years, all to no avail.

It’s basically impossible to discuss anything. It all turns into a pile of slop, 12 different tangents all emerge at the same time and the combination of accusations, insults and demands are all too different to deal with and just seem to leave me shell-shocked.

Like you, I never had a calm, rational discussion with my BPDer exW over any important issue after we were married. BPDers carry enormous rage and hurt inside from early childhood. Because the anger lies there just under the surface, it is easily triggered to explode by any minor comment or action. Hence, even if you try to discuss an important issue when your W is in a calm happy mood, that mood will be replaced by anger within 10 seconds of your bringing the matter up. Moreover, when the anger is aroused, a BPDer turns all decisions and actions over to the intuitive child part of her mind (i.e., the center of her feelings). You therefore are reduced to trying to reason rationally with her inner child (the very source of her anger and hurt).

In particular, she disowns all responsibility for sorting anything out,

Because her self image is so fragile and unstable, and because admitting a mistake implies she is "all bad," a BPDer is loath to accept responsibility for the consequences of her own actions. Instead, she convinces herself that she is a perpetual "victim." She does that by marrying a guy like you. During the six month honeymoon, her illusion of being "a victim" is validated by your imagined status as "her savior." And, when the infatuation evaporates after six months, she is able to receive the very same validation of her "victim" status by blaming every misfortune on you. In that way, she has a "perpetrator" always close at hand to validate her distorted image of herself.

“there are no solutions”, makes a setting where I’m the dysfunctional inadequate one...

This is why it is often said that "BPDers are only interested in creating drama, not finding solutions." The drama, of course, is necessary to validate their "poor little victim" self concept. As to the solutions, they are of little value. This is why, after you have pulled a BPDer from the raging seas, within two weeks she will turn around and jump right back in. She does not desire being saved but, rather, the drama of being saved.

The first words I say are taken, like a footballer grabbing the ball and running off with it into some other direction, completely out of context and off topic. I literally can’t get 3 words out without this happening.

As I noted, the purpose of the argument usually is to push you away so the BPDer can feel like a separate, whole individual. So it need not make logical sense. Moreover, because a BPDer has the emotional development of a young child, she does not intellectually challenge her intense feelings. She regards feelings as "facts" and "reality" so, when you challenge those "facts," she will say whatever is necessary to blow you off. This is why BPDers frequently come up with the most illogical, convoluted arguments to justify something they "know" (at their emotional core) to be true. To them, it simply HAS to be true or they could not feel it so strongly.

I’ve begged her to see a counselor, but she dismisses this as nothing they can help us with.

In the same way that the BPDer does not want you challenging her irrational feelings with adult logic, she will have the same resistant attitude to arguing with a professional who is even better prepared. Even if you could get a high functioning BPDer to go to a therapist, it is rare for one to stay in therapy long enough to make a difference.

General themes of the arguments are usually so petty and trivial but of course represent deeper distrust and problems.

As I said, a BPDer usually creates arguments "over nothing" as a way of pushing you away. So, of course, the arguments are "usually so petty and trivial." As to your W's "deeper distrust," I note that BPDers usually are incapable of trusting anyone. The ability to do so was lost (or failed to develop) in early childhood.

...the constant barrage of yelling, prosecution and tension ever since has not helped much.

Because BPDers have a stunted emotional development, they are forced to rely heavily on the primitive emotional defenses available to a young child. These include throwing temper tantrums and hissy fits to control you by bullying you into submission. They also include black-white thinking, denial and projection.

 

Silverton, if these traits ring a bell, you may wish to read more about the nine BPD traits so you can spot the red flags. If so, I suggest that you start with my discussion of them in Cyanogen's thread. My two posts start at http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3417491#post3417491. Those posts also provide links to several excellent BPD articles written by professionals. If you have any questions, I would be glad to try to answer them or point you to a resource that can. Take care, Silverton.

[coolheadal]

Wow! This sums up my wife to the T. Thanks for this examination. As I said I don't think my wife and wives that show this disorder will every be true again. Men like us should get out before it's too late and never try to get back into these type of relationships.

[Mauschen]

In order to give a female's perspective, would you mind telling me what you do for a living? How you react to her when she is upset? Do you respond defensively and insult her? I am not making any accusations, just trying to understand your situation better. It is easy to see the other party as being all guilty, but you must also have some things that could be worked on.

 

That said, the fact that your wife is unwilling to see a therapist is a big problem. In my first marriage, we both were difficult for each other, but only one of us (me) was willing to make changes and go to therapy. I read a lot of books and saw a therapist regularly for about a year. My ex did nothing to improve our marriage, and eventually I had enough of his behavior and left.

 

In many cases, all you can do is control YOUR behavior and set CLEAR boundaries for how others (your wife) are allowed to treat you. If she insults you (like telling you she will find another man to raise your child), remind her that you will not tolerate these insults and then leave the room. If you lash back at her and insult her, you are fueling the fire. Treat her the way you expect her to treat you, but when she is out of line, clearly and calmly let her know. You deserve to be respected by your wife, and you need to figure out why she doesn't respect you. Talking to her may not work (because she may not even know why), but changing your actions may work.

 

Try visiting marriagebuilders.com, reading Love Busters and His Needs, Her Needs.