White Flower Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 If you don't mine my asking, how old were you when you went back to school? What did you do with your degree? How soon after you went back did you get a divorce? I was 41 when I went back to junior college. I only got my AA, but with years of experience in my field and with being a people person it landed me a pretty good position. I'm happy. I was 44 when why ex moved out and barely 45 when the D was final. Everything hit the fan that Spring/Summer of '08. Read my thread, 'All at Once' and you'll see that I was suffering with an ovarian cyst, skin cancer near my eye, finals right before graduation, the discovery of MM being a serial cheater, H moving out and the kids reverberating over stress and relief over that, losing a non-renewable contracted position at work, and the fear of losing my home. Again I tell you that I would do it all over again. My sanity is worth that much to me.
Torytorytory Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 Thank you thank you thank you!!! It makes me think there is actually life after this! As for a retainer, I have no money really of my own. I don't know how I would even pay for a lawyer. I do have a business account so I guess I could start putting money in there? We are always in financial debt. However h does make alot of money. I'd have to give that up too and I know my sanity would be well worth it! I handle all of our bills and the finances. He refuses to even look at them which over the years has added more stress to me. He has got to know something has been going on. I told him I can't wait for my daughter to move out so I can have her room. I told him a few months ago if we got a divorce, he would have to pay for my college education. I wonder what my church would say about his abuse? If it is abuse? Would they let me continue to serve there if I kicked him out? He probably wouldn't leave ever. I read this online today and it makes total sense to me: "There comes a critical time in each person's life when the truth is accessible. Faced with it, you can either run and hide, denying it, or you can face your truth, accept it, and grow stronger," wrote Gregory Jantz in Healing the Scars of Emotional Abuse. Also do you think he would be willing to change? I wish he would but doubt it. I'm so confused. And won't this bring more pain to me and everybody than what I am enduring now? Thanks!!'
White Flower Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 (edited) Thank you thank you thank you!!! It makes me think there is actually life after this! As for a retainer, I have no money really of my own. I don't know how I would even pay for a lawyer. I do have a business account so I guess I could start putting money in there? We are always in financial debt. However h does make alot of money. I'd have to give that up too and I know my sanity would be well worth it! I handle all of our bills and the finances. He refuses to even look at them which over the years has added more stress to me. He has got to know something has been going on. I told him I can't wait for my daughter to move out so I can have her room. I told him a few months ago if we got a divorce, he would have to pay for my college education. I wonder what my church would say about his abuse? If it is abuse? Would they let me continue to serve there if I kicked him out? He probably wouldn't leave ever. I read this online today and it makes total sense to me: "There comes a critical time in each person's life when the truth is accessible. Faced with it, you can either run and hide, denying it, or you can face your truth, accept it, and grow stronger," wrote Gregory Jantz in Healing the Scars of Emotional Abuse. Also do you think he would be willing to change? I wish he would but doubt it. I'm so confused. And won't this bring more pain to me and everybody than what I am enduring now? Thanks!!' Love the quote you found and would add that you grow by doing some work. Tory, I would love it if your H changed, and you would too. But he's proven over the years that he won't. Have you actually said very forcefully you better change or I'm gone? Ever said it and backed it up? My H would change temporarily, but would always revert back to his old way. There came a point where I could no longer handle or accept this process. Putting him on the couch was backing up my threat, and he still didn't change. He wouldn't change because his pride was greater than the condition of our M. With every step I took to back up my claim to leave he still would not change. It may be different for you. It's a tough test, but worth it in the end. I didn't want someone that nasty, vile, and disrespectful taking care of me when I become a senior citizen. Truth was, he proved to me in those times that he didn't give a Shyte, validating the crashing airplane nightmares that I was having. Edited June 4, 2011 by White Flower
fooled once Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 I divorced my ex - we had a small child. I decided I no longer would deal with his alcoholism or his physical abuse. Verbal abuse is not easy to prove. It is a persons opinion, rather than actual marks on a person. None of us can say you are being verbally abused. No one else in your family or your friends see it. Just make sure before you label him an abuser you are not using it as an excuse to have an affair. Maybe that is your H's personality, to be joking or playful? Maybe he truly has NO idea how your are interpreting it. You two just could have 2 different views / ways of communicating? Work on you. Work on why YOU are depressed. Could be empty nest syndrome? Could be just restlessness? Have you asked your kids why they don't hang around you all? Could it be just wanting to get to know the families of their soon to be spouses? Could be the other family does more exciting things?
Torytorytory Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 Thank you for your wonderful insight! I really appreciate it alot! I'm going to work on me and see how far that gets me lol. Hopefully far!
White Flower Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 I divorced my ex - we had a small child. I decided I no longer would deal with his alcoholism or his physical abuse. Verbal abuse is not easy to prove. It is a persons opinion, rather than actual marks on a person. None of us can say you are being verbally abused. No one else in your family or your friends see it. Just make sure before you label him an abuser you are not using it as an excuse to have an affair. Maybe that is your H's personality, to be joking or playful? Maybe he truly has NO idea how your are interpreting it. You two just could have 2 different views / ways of communicating? Work on you. Work on why YOU are depressed. Could be empty nest syndrome? Could be just restlessness? Have you asked your kids why they don't hang around you all? Could it be just wanting to get to know the families of their soon to be spouses? Could be the other family does more exciting things?Tory has already explained that her parents have witnessed her H's behavior, as well as her pastor and her kids. She has already established that her kids would rather spend time with happy families instead of with her when her angry H is around. I think she's already declared that she's happy the EA didn't get messy as a PA, and that she's come out of fantasyland to do the real work of finding herself so do we really have to ask her not to use her H's obvious emotional abuse as an excuse to have an affair???
Torytorytory Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 Sorry all, I'm at work. I can tell you with all honesty that I am NOT Kariva nor am I Tory. I'm here, new, seeking help in my own situations and wanting to in some way help with others' situations. Tory/Kariva ... please stay to get help and answer q's. That is, essentially, what a therapist would do...ask questions and you answer them. THis is a form of therapy. Have you had any contact with MM? And what of your future plans? Made plans for exit strategy? Yes making plans now . . .
whichwayisup Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 Verbal abuse is not easy to prove. It is a persons opinion, rather than actual marks on a person. This is very true and the fact is, he makes you feel bad most of the time. He's given you insecurites and possibly some deep scars because of how he's treated you and what he's said. You are smart and will find a way to make ends meet. Also, he WILL have to pay spousal support. Everything will work out as it should but it won't be easy. Just know once things have settled down your stress level will get less and you'll feel much happier.
Torytorytory Posted June 5, 2011 Posted June 5, 2011 Torytorytory, ultimately, all this feedback is to give you the truth. If you can't handle that, then you should leave ... but no one here is being rude or calling you names. You asked for help and sometimes "help" is hearing things you don't want to hear. now ... with that being said ... I agree on all points posted ... I'm sure this story, on BOTH ends, has a DEEP history ... deeper than any of us know and probably deeper than MM or you realize (past hurts, unresolved issues, etc). If MM tries to reach out to you, what is your response after all this? And how would he get a hold of you? the online game? The online game or phone call.
Torytorytory Posted June 5, 2011 Posted June 5, 2011 I haven't really played the online game since this happened.
fooled once Posted June 5, 2011 Posted June 5, 2011 Tory has already explained that her parents have witnessed her H's behavior, as well as her pastor and her kids. She has already established that her kids would rather spend time with happy families instead of with her when her angry H is around. I think she's already declared that she's happy the EA didn't get messy as a PA, and that she's come out of fantasyland to do the real work of finding herself so do we really have to ask her not to use her H's obvious emotional abuse as an excuse to have an affair??? whatever WF. I'm entitled to my view as you are yours. I just hope she doesn't try to emulate some OW who are happy to stay OW even tho they keep making declarations they won't continue to be OW. I do not know of her H's "obvious" emotional abuse because he is not here NOR have I personally heard him verbally abuse her. Anyone can claim emotional abuse, proving it in court if that is the route she plans to take in a divorce will be very hard to do. I did not see her state her parents have witnessed anything. I read her post about her parents being upset if she left him. Can you show me where she stated that her parents witnessed this behavior? And her kids? She said her mom noticed her tense and that the pastor saw him snap at her....if that is emotional abuse, then everyone is emotionally abused. As someone whonHAS suffered physical abuse, I get very irritated when people claim abuse in order to excuse actions or avoid issues. Like I said, we are not in her home. We can only go by what a person posts and I hate to see people labeled as abusers if they are NOT. Don't like my post, ignore it. There is no need for you to poo poo any opinion that goes against yours or is written by someone you don't like. We ALL can provide support and insight, not just you.
Torytorytory Posted June 5, 2011 Posted June 5, 2011 The online game or phone call. And now that my head has cleared up a bit my response would be to apologize.
Torytorytory Posted June 6, 2011 Posted June 6, 2011 Fooled once. I, of all people do NOT want to accuse somebody of verbal and or emotional abuse if they don't deserve it. My parents have witnessed the way he has treated me over the years and have mentioned it to me. Not too long ago, I was complaining to my Mom about how my oldest daughter always screams at me for no reason and doesn't believe she is. My mom said to me, she had seen her dad do that so much so she thinks it is ok to do. My parents used to get very upset over the way he treated me and my kids. I always defended him. I am hoping to learn through counseling if it is really all me like my h says or if it is abuse. I start counseling this morning and am excited because I feel like I am doing something to finally to figure things out. My h has been really trying and very nice lately although he has also been out of town alot. This morning I asked him if he would be willing to get ic. He said no, he isn't the one with the problems.
Fugu Posted June 6, 2011 Posted June 6, 2011 Let me just say I have never done anything like this before. I am married and met a married man online through a game. He pursued me alot. He and I are both Christians and have alot in common. Initially, I turned him down and then began to fall for him. I've never met him and this emotional affair has only lasted two months or longer, I'm not sure. We've talked on the phone alot. My marriage has been to a verbally abusive man so this new man has really helped me boost my self esteem. I've fallen for him. I know he feels the same although we have never said we love eachother. He told me about two weeks his wife was becoming suspicious and said "you aren't here anymore, you are some place far away, aren't you". My husband would never suspect anything. Yesterday, he resigned from the game and said his wife found our texts and asked him to choose. He said he had to resign and told her she could have full access to his texts. I didn't get that message right away so started a new game. He played once and said he was sorry but he promised his wife he would have no contact with me. I them resigned from the game and haven't contacted him since. I don't plan on it. I'm not sure if he will call me or not once the long weekend is over. He would always call from work so she wouldn't find out. I certainly didn't expect this to hurt so much! I haven't slept since it happened. That was yesterday. I tried to nap today and woke up when I started dreaming about him. Is this normal? Do you think he will contact me this week by phone? I'm just so hurt he ended it via text message. It felt like I was punched in the stomach. Is this normal? Thanks for any insight you have. His wife finding the texts was probably a stroke of good luck for you and him, and be glad that for now, she's keeping this sh*t to herself when she could easily get in contact with you and blow this whole thing wide open. Online games, eh? Well, as Kenny Rogers says in 'The Gambler', you gotta know when to walk away. Looks like this is one of those times. Be careful about your computer use in the future. In fact, you should maybe get one of those online monitors or devices that controls your Internet usage. But also ask yourself why and how you ended up getting into this situation. It's not just him, it's you too. Think about that.
Fugu Posted June 6, 2011 Posted June 6, 2011 If you are with an abusive husband, having an affair is one of the least intelligent things to do. Just saying. Do you have any kids? How long have you been married? If you have told your H that he is verbally abusive to you, and he has not made any effort to change, I would recommend separation if possible. Yeah, I gotta agree with this. You do not want this guy to find out about what happened. And maybe separation is the way to go.
Fugu Posted June 6, 2011 Posted June 6, 2011 What also pisses me off is I did not pursue him. He pursued me alot. Now I'm the one left hurting Do you think he is hurting too? You should have stopped when he was pursuing you. I understand you wanted the attention, but...
Mimolicious Posted June 6, 2011 Posted June 6, 2011 Fooled once. I, of all people do NOT want to accuse somebody of verbal and or emotional abuse if they don't deserve it. My parents have witnessed the way he has treated me over the years and have mentioned it to me. Not too long ago, I was complaining to my Mom about how my oldest daughter always screams at me for no reason and doesn't believe she is. My mom said to me, she had seen her dad do that so much so she thinks it is ok to do. My parents used to get very upset over the way he treated me and my kids. I always defended him. I am hoping to learn through counseling if it is really all me like my h says or if it is abuse. I start counseling this morning and am excited because I feel like I am doing something to finally to figure things out. My h has been really trying and very nice lately although he has also been out of town alot. This morning I asked him if he would be willing to get ic. He said no, he isn't the one with the problems. The bolded- I partly agree with your mother BUT you have allowed this kind of behavior towards you from your H and also from your kids. Have you done anything to stop that? I am sorry if I sound a bit irrational but you have also taken participation in this kind of environment. You really do nothing playing the victim if you don't do anything about it. I am sorry, there are plenty of resources nowadays to not have to deal with such behavior. DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! And by that I don't mean find refugee on an online game and fall for sweet words that a stranger can feed you. Perhaps, this is why you created this fantasy affair with your online OM. At this point you'll fall for anything that can pay attention to you. DO SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE with your life. Life is too short.
Torytorytory Posted June 6, 2011 Posted June 6, 2011 The bolded- I partly agree with your mother BUT you have allowed this kind of behavior towards you from your H and also from your kids. Have you done anything to stop that? I am sorry if I sound a bit irrational but you have also taken participation in this kind of environment. You really do nothing playing the victim if you don't do anything about it. I am sorry, there are plenty of resources nowadays to not have to deal with such behavior. DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! And by that I don't mean find refugee on an online game and fall for sweet words that a stranger can feed you. Perhaps, this is why you created this fantasy affair with your online OM. At this point you'll fall for anything that can pay attention to you. DO SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE with your life. Life is too short. Yeah, you are right! I agree with everything all of you have said. And yeah life is too short. I just can't imagine spending the rest of my life like this. I've been using online games to escape for the past 2 years. Specifically, world of warcraft. I quit that game about 6 months ago and met mm via words with friends on my iphone. How dumb . . . I don't play it anymore, like I said. I asked my h if he would get ic this morning and he said no, he isn't the one with the problem. He has been super nice to me though lately. Yet, for how long? Maybe it is all me? Maybe I'm the one with problems? I don't know, I'm so confused . . .
Torytorytory Posted June 6, 2011 Posted June 6, 2011 His wife finding the texts was probably a stroke of good luck for you and him, and be glad that for now, she's keeping this sh*t to herself when she could easily get in contact with you and blow this whole thing wide open. Online games, eh? Well, as Kenny Rogers says in 'The Gambler', you gotta know when to walk away. Looks like this is one of those times. Be careful about your computer use in the future. In fact, you should maybe get one of those online monitors or devices that controls your Internet usage. But also ask yourself why and how you ended up getting into this situation. It's not just him, it's you too. Think about that. How would she get in contact with me though???
White Flower Posted June 6, 2011 Posted June 6, 2011 The bolded- I partly agree with your mother BUT you have allowed this kind of behavior towards you from your H and also from your kids. Have you done anything to stop that? I am sorry if I sound a bit irrational but you have also taken participation in this kind of environment. You really do nothing playing the victim if you don't do anything about it. I am sorry, there are plenty of resources nowadays to not have to deal with such behavior. DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! And by that I don't mean find refugee on an online game and fall for sweet words that a stranger can feed you. Perhaps, this is why you created this fantasy affair with your online OM. At this point you'll fall for anything that can pay attention to you. DO SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE with your life. Life is too short. Love the post Mimo, but I think Tory has already identified most of what you are saying. She realized the online gaming was a fantasyland and now realizes that she dealt with nothing while doing that. Now that it's over she has decided to go back to school and build up her part time business. But I think it's great that you suggest she take advantage of reading books and getting some kind of therapy to overcome her H's abusive ways. Emotional abuse is very hard to recognize, even for the victim, and hard to overcome. The abuser often isn't aware that he is an abuser too. Tory, I would suggest when you go back to college to take a communication class as one of your first classes. You'll learn so much about yourself as well as other personalities in your life. I became so much stronger after having taken such a class.
Mimolicious Posted June 6, 2011 Posted June 6, 2011 Yeah, you are right! I agree with everything all of you have said. And yeah life is too short. I just can't imagine spending the rest of my life like this. I've been using online games to escape for the past 2 years. Specifically, world of warcraft. I quit that game about 6 months ago and met mm via words with friends on my iphone. How dumb . . . I don't play it anymore, like I said. I asked my h if he would get ic this morning and he said no, he isn't the one with the problem. He has been super nice to me though lately. Yet, for how long? Maybe it is all me? Maybe I'm the one with problems? I don't know, I'm so confused . . . Hay Dios Mio! No babes, don't let him do reversed psychology on you either. Maybe at this point can you try to help yourself? I mean, you can't help someone who thinks there is nothing wrong with them. Unfortunately, he will have to realize this on his own. LAY OFF THE GAMES! lol! This will just delay moving forward and creating a better life for yourself. A REAL LIFE, not all this virtual second life. Even if it's one little step at a time, it's one step closer to being well.
Mimolicious Posted June 6, 2011 Posted June 6, 2011 Love the post Mimo, but I think Tory has already identified most of what you are saying. She realized the online gaming was a fantasyland and now realizes that she dealt with nothing while doing that. Now that it's over she has decided to go back to school and build up her part time business. But I think it's great that you suggest she take advantage of reading books and getting some kind of therapy to overcome her H's abusive ways. Emotional abuse is very hard to recognize, even for the victim, and hard to overcome. The abuser often isn't aware that he is an abuser too. Tory, I would suggest when you go back to college to take a communication class as one of your first classes. You'll learn so much about yourself as well as other personalities in your life. I became so much stronger after having taken such a class. Her H sees his behavior as normal because he probably doesn't know any better. Sad thing is that it creates a pattern for the kids, they will allow people to treat them poorly and will also treat their partner the same, one day.
Torytorytory Posted June 6, 2011 Posted June 6, 2011 Her H sees his behavior as normal because he probably doesn't know any better. Sad thing is that it creates a pattern for the kids, they will allow people to treat them poorly and will also treat their partner the same, one day. Counseling this am was awesome! What an eye opener! It was a God thing. The counselor is a christian yet also does believe in divorce if necessary. She also said my h has no idea what he is doing is abusive nor does he know how to change. She recommended a couple of books for him to read and a couple for me to read. Her speciality had also been domestic violence. She has dealt with hardcore domestic abuse so she isn't going to be saying he is abusive when he isn't. We're going to work on me so I don't allow it anymore. She said he may read the books and decide to get help, but that's not on me, it's his choice. I'm excited and have already started reading them!
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