Contact frequency in a relationship

[threebyfate]

I guess this is where you and I would disagree. Personally, I found my relationships have gone more smoothly since I've honed my own "coda" of behavior and acted the way I wanted/felt was right, rather than worried about the "situation" or how I could be hurt. Others disagree, of course, but I think that while being vulnerable can certainly get you hurt, it gets you hurt in better ways at least than the alternative. And being hurt isn't always the worst thing. Sometimes the fear of being hurt is worse. But YMMV.

There's two approaches in this and while I agree with you when trust has been built or consistent behaviour has been displayed enough to warrant being wide open, there are times where gut intinct tells you to hold up, to stop, look and listen.

 

We need more data!

[zengirl]

There's two approaches in this and while I agree with you when trust has been built or consistent behaviour has been displayed enough to warrant being wide open, there are times where gut intinct tells you to hold up, to stop, look and listen.

 

We need more data!

 

Ah, see I suppose I don't see the two things as mutually exclusive. I definitely always take some time to look and listen before I act/react, but I also have stopped trying to build walls or "protect" myself once I'm in a relationship. (To me, once I'm in a relationship, it's a partnership, and I'm open with what I feel, expect, and need. Even if it means the breakdown of that relationship.)

 

I wish ES had clearer instincts/more faith in her own instincts, because it is harder not knowing her BF to know what's right to do, when her own instincts often seem to go in divisive directions (a truly understandable product of anxiety, which flips up my instincts too, don't get me wrong).

[sanskrit]

MDM was making tons of threads,

 

Not really that many actually, or at least not many now. I was also gone for some months.

 

I'm not sure what the two posters have in common at all. ES is struggling to maintain a healthy LTR and, last I heard, MDM didn't even want one.

 

The desire to maintain a LTR or not bears how exactly on how posters are treated here?

 

Reread this thread please, especially the parts concerning the travel plans, then get back to us. TBFs previous post to you, if it applies to ES, is wholly applicable to MDM's threads also, she will never admit it, will rationalize around it, even make things up (him purposefully targeting "relationship minded" women), but it is... and she knows it.

 

So I will go back into the bushes and leave you all to work out the details of thousands of more posts concerning the painfully simple and obvious situation here. That TBF's post to you is here in this thread and can be quoted to other threads later is quite enough for me.

Edited May 31, 2011 by sanskrit

[zengirl]

The desire to maintain a LTR or not bears how exactly on how posters are treated here?

 

On whether or not I find them sympathetic? Absolutely.

 

ES also never uses terms which I'd consider in the "misandrist" vein, whereas MDM totally says misogynistic things every other post. It's like he can't help himself.

 

Reread this thread please, especially the parts concerning the travel plans, then get back to us.

 

I don't even fully understand what you mean, so you'd have to further define this point for me to get it.

[threebyfate]

Ah, see I suppose I don't see the two things as mutually exclusive. I definitely always take some time to look and listen before I act/react, but I also have stopped trying to build walls or "protect" myself once I'm in a relationship. (To me, once I'm in a relationship, it's a partnership, and I'm open with what I feel, expect, and need. Even if it means the breakdown of that relationship.)

Sounds like we're talking about something similar. As for the bolded, I'm like that too, in that if something feels off or something's bothering me, I express it to my partner.

 

I wish ES had clearer instincts/more faith in her own instincts, because it is harder not knowing her BF to know what's right to do, when her own instincts often seem to go in divisive directions (a truly understandable product of anxiety, which flips up my instincts too, don't get me wrong).

The bolded is key. We're not there to know how the two interact on a continuous basis. Sometimes, our subconscious picks up on things that our conscious mind doesn't always notice. This to me is what gut instinct is about so since ES has expressed that "something's not right", I'm prepared to give her instincts the benefit of the doubt since we're not there, only getting bit piece of what's going on.

[Mme. Chaucer]

I'm not going down that gigantic rabbit hole.

 

But I will say that everyone is different, with different wants, needs and reactions. In expecting ES to be a carbon copy of yourselves, continuously harassing and trying to control her behaviours, is about 1000 times worse than ES's behaviours.

 

If you two are truly responsible for yourselves, you'd stop trying to hammer at her vulnerabilities and balance YOUR own thought processes.

 

My goodness. What are you TALKING about, woman? Harassing? Continuously? Trying to control?

 

I posted on this thread one time after 6 pages to ES (the others since that have been in response to you). You still have not shown me my horrible abuse of her in that post. I have not participated AT ALL in other recent threads of hers about this relationship.

 

A O posted once after even more pages.

 

If you honestly think that is "harassing," etc. I suggest you might stop "hammering" other peoples' ways of expressing themselves and balance YOUR own thought processes.

 

Really.

 

I can't fathom what makes you believe that you are the sole arbiter of how ES needs to be spoken to, what will help her, what is bad for her, etc. Where does that come from?

 

Frankly, I disagree that you have any idea what would help her. But I don't presume to truly know.

 

Clearly, ES does not like to hear from me. So far, I have never met any person in the midst of destructive behavior patterns who likes to hear what most likely they need to hear.

 

Give it a rest. If ES doesn't want to hear from a variety of people with many different tones, perspectives, and beliefs, then she needs to stop posting here.

[A O]

Straight up. Your own behaviour is dysfunctional since it's obsessive compulsive to constantly natter at someone who's not interested in hearing your name calling. Back off with throwing around this word like a weapon. It displays no respect.

It's not a label, it's not a weapon its not being disrespectful. The term - dysfunction - is an accurate reflection of a state of being or situation. In this case, certain dysfunctional, or faulty thought processes, inhibit the OP from enjoying continuously meaningful relationship experiences.

 

The heart of the matter is in addressing these thought processes, something that most of us here continually do. But time has shown that our attempts at addressing these thought processes have had minimal, meaningful affect. Hence the need, IMO, to help guide her towards someone different, someone who at least knows more than we do - a professional.

 

 

.

[Eternal Sunshine]

TBF is correct. There has been a break in his pattern of behavior. I haven't heard from him still, not to wish me good morning or to ask me how my day has been going (which he used to do before). Absolute dead silence. I am not acting out or breaking up with him - but now I am even more sure that something is off.

 

I am going over the last 2 days we spent together and things went really well. We went to the markets on day 2 and I saw a cactus I liked which he immediately bought for me. Nothing appeared out of order, we had fun. Since then, 2 days of silence...then same lame jokey text. And except the conversation I initiated about travel plans, absolutely nothing from him. I e-mailed him a song yesterday (we used to e-mail and discuss songs) and he hasn't responded. He has also been "offline" on Facebook chat for days now where we used to IM.

 

He talks a big talk about discussing issues when they pop up, but he is not talking. I am at loss at what to do.

 

P.S. He has been posting on his own Facebook wall as usual and I know that he is not particularly busy or anything.

Edited May 31, 2011 by Eternal Sunshine

[zengirl]

TBF is correct. There has been a break in his pattern of behavior. I haven't heard from him still, not to wish me good morning or to ask me how my day has been going (which he used to do before). Absolute dead silence. I am not acting out or breaking up with him - but now I am even more sure that something is off.

 

I am going over the last 2 days we spent together and things went really well. We went to the markets on day 2 and I saw a cactus I liked which he immediately bought for me. Nothing appeared out of order, we had fun. Since then, 2 days of silence...then same lame jokey text. And except the conversation I initiated about travel plans, absolutely nothing from him. I e-mailed him a song yesterday (we used to e-mail and discuss songs) and he hasn't responded. He has also been "offline" on Facebook chat for days now where we used to IM.

 

He talks a big talk about discussing issues when they pop up, but he is not talking. I am at loss at what to do.

 

P.S. He has been posting on his own Facebook wall as usual and I know that he is not particularly busy or anything.

 

You aren't talking to him about the issue either, though. My main point is, I guess, that worrying too much about what the other person is doing/thinking and why is a defense mechanism that produces anxiety and generally works out poorly.

 

I think you need to decide a few things:

 

*What you need. And ask for it.

 

*If you really think something is wrong. And address it and/or accept it and go with the flow. But pick a path, lest it drive you mad.

 

*What you need to do to feel good about this situation. And do that.

 

None of those are "easy" tasks, so I don't mean to make light of it, but they do make life easier in the long run, I think.

[Eternal Sunshine]

zengirl,

 

we had a big argument few weeks ago after which we broke up for 12 hours. I am hesitant to talk to him because it could be seen as causing more drama.

[zengirl]

zengirl,

 

we had a big argument few weeks ago after which we broke up for 12 hours. I am hesitant to talk to him because it could be seen as causing more drama.

 

I can certainly understand that. However, I think the buildup of the anxiety is going to cause more drama in the long run.

 

I would suggest you be mindful to work through some of the anxiety on your own and get to a point where you can address the issues with him calmly, of course. A lot of the work I mentioned is "inner work" -- the talking about it only happens once you feel secure and clear-headed on what you want, need, and accept. But I don't think that's something that just "comes" to you by waiting, like I feel TBF alluded to, but rather something you have to seek, build, and chase: Knowing how you feel you should act and following through accordingly, whatever it does to the relationship. The key isn't to save this relationship but to get yourself to a point where you can have the best, healthiest relationship YOU can, and as long as you act in accordance with that, I think whatever happens is more likely to be for the best.

 

Mine is a longer view. It may not help with the little details and day-to-day tactics, but I think over-focusing on them is only heightening your anxiety. Certainly, I may be wrong, but that's my view.

[A O]

Okay, you two. How many of her threads do you two repeat your advice? How many accusatory posts do you two post?

My advice is primarily to the posters who participate in her threads. There's a fine line between being an adviser and being an enabler. That line has been well n truly crossed in my book.

 

She is at fault for everything, she's dysfunctional and messed up. Don't either of you see yourselves? Don't either one of you take any responsibility for your own behaviours? Perhaps a professional would help both of you balance your own dysfunctional thoughts and behaviours.

At the end of the day it "all" depends on what you and I and everyone else out there wants for her and people like her. What she is going through now, what she has been through for many years is simply not what I want for her. Therefore I ask myself this question - what can be done to change this? And one obvious answer to that is to encourage her to change the advice or advisers she confides in.

 

 

.

[Eternal Sunshine]

Okay, you two. How many of her threads do you two repeat your advice? How many accusatory posts do you two post?

 

Every thread of hers I've read, has had the same type of advice from both of you. She is at fault for everything, she's dysfunctional and messed up. Don't either of you see yourselves? Don't either one of you take any responsibility for your own behaviours? Perhaps a professional would help both of you balance your own dysfunctional thoughts and behaviours.

 

I actually remember when I posted a thread about a guy I dated before this one. We had intercourse for over 2 hours, I was sore and and at some point I looked at my watch. I admitted it here and was stoned to death by men and women. He broke up with me weeks later. Everyone on here was sure it was because I looked at the watch, that one time during an abnormally long sex session. I decided to talk to him and apologize for it. The guy was like "Huh? What are you talking about? I never even noticed".....Just an example of magnifying every little thing I do.

 

To this day, that guy has been apologizing to me for hurting me and being a self-absorbed j*rk.

[SmileFace]

I actually remember when I posted a thread about a guy I dated before this one. We had intercourse for over 2 hours, I was sore and and at some point I looked at my watch. I admitted it here and was stoned to death by men and women. He broke up with me weeks later. Everyone on here was sure it was because I looked at the watch, that one time during an abnormally long sex session. I decided to talk to him and apologize for it. The guy was like "Huh? What are you talking about? I never even noticed".....Just an example of magnifying every little thing I do.

 

To this day, that guy has been apologizing to me for hurting me and being a self-absorbed j*rk.

No, I think people were saying that they didn't understand how you couldn't see anything wrong with that. That isn't enough reason to break up with anyone, not like any guy will admit to seeing some girl do that.

[threebyfate]

I actually remember when I posted a thread about a guy I dated before this one. We had intercourse for over 2 hours, I was sore and and at some point I looked at my watch. I admitted it here and was stoned to death by men and women. He broke up with me weeks later. Everyone on here was sure it was because I looked at the watch, that one time during an abnormally long sex session. I decided to talk to him and apologize for it. The guy was like "Huh? What are you talking about? I never even noticed".....Just an example of magnifying every little thing I do.

 

To this day, that guy has been apologizing to me for hurting me and being a self-absorbed j*rk.

I find your treatment on LS appalling and brutally unfair and are so sick of it, have decided to speak up. All it takes is one member to say something negative and the rest all pile on, creating a mountain out of a molehill, as in your above example.

 

It's seriously nauseating how grown men and women can act this way.

[threebyfate]

No, I think people were saying that they didn't understand how you couldn't see anything wrong with that. That isn't enough reason to break up with anyone, not like any guy will admit to seeing some girl do that.

Glancing at her watch once? Not a big deal unless he huffed out of there. As it stood, did you notice he didn't even notice? So everyone crapped all over her for...NOTHING!

[zengirl]

I actually remember when I posted a thread about a guy I dated before this one. We had intercourse for over 2 hours, I was sore and and at some point I looked at my watch. I admitted it here and was stoned to death by men and women. He broke up with me weeks later. Everyone on here was sure it was because I looked at the watch, that one time during an abnormally long sex session. I decided to talk to him and apologize for it. The guy was like "Huh? What are you talking about? I never even noticed".....Just an example of magnifying every little thing I do.

 

To this day, that guy has been apologizing to me for hurting me and being a self-absorbed j*rk.

 

I didn't see that response in the thread the way you did. I think they were pointing out how some of your behaviors in that relationship were destructive (and I still think some were), not "defending" the guy perse.

 

For me, the bigger issue with that sexual story (and I remember it) was always that you failed to assert yourself and instead went a bit passive aggressive after. That's a defense mechanism as well. You abound in defense mechanisms and they don't serve you well.

 

I don't think you'll ever be happy in a relationship until you can soothe your anxiety and set aside your defense mechanisms (most of the time, at least). And then there will still be jerks, but it'll be way easier to see them. But I do think you have a tendency to go, "Well, that guy was a jerk, so nothing to learn there about how I can do better" and I simply disagree. Learning how YOU can do better will always serve you well; this does not mean you are some horrible monster who always does everything wrong, but simply: if you were doing things "right" (and "right" here doesn't mean "right" in the judgement of others or anything like that), you'd be happier.

 

Again, this goes back to how I think you tend to overly focus on the small details and miss the big picture. People will use details to try to show you the big picture, and you'll get caught up on trying to negate the details as if that negates the other points. I'm not quite sure why you do this. I only see the pattern; I do not pretend to understand it or truly know you, ES. It is a shame to always see you continually suffering and anxious, though.

[SmileFace]

Glancing at her watch once? Not a big deal unless he huffed out of there. As it stood, did you notice he didn't even notice? So everyone crapped all over her for...NOTHING!

If you want to read it like that. Whom am I to judge? However, it isn't NOTHING from my POV.

 

It is a public forum. ES can post and everyone can post back. Stop acting like she or any of us are kids.

 

Anyway I am out of this thread. This cat like behavior isn't me. Good luck E.S.

[Eternal Sunshine]

I find your treatment on LS appalling and brutally unfair and are so sick of it, have decided to speak up. All it takes is one member to say something negative and the rest all pile on, creating a mountain out of a molehill, as in your above example.

 

It's seriously nauseating how grown men and women can act this way.

 

TBF, thank you sincerely for standing up for me. As you know, I respect you a lot and think that you are incredibly intelligent and perceptive. In fact, whenever you advised me that a guy is no good, he did turn out to be...no good. You also have a great deal of internal strength which is tempered with genuine compassion and that is very rare to see. You have also helped my friend shadowplay. Just thought I would let you know that it means a lot to me.

[threebyfate]

If you want to read it like that. Whom am I to judge? However, it isn't NOTHING from my POV.

 

It is a public forum. ES can post and everyone can post back. Stop acting like she or any of us are kids.

 

Anyway I am out of this thread. This cat like behavior isn't me. Good luck E.S.

I see. So if ES wants to discuss "minor" detailed items, she's overly-focused on details. But if everyone else hones in on "minor" details, it's a big deal and should be treated that way?

 

Hypocrisy anyone?

[threebyfate]

TBF, thank you sincerely for standing up for me. As you know, I respect you a lot and think that you are incredibly intelligent and perceptive. In fact, whenever you advised me that a guy is no good, he did turn out to be...no good. You also have a great deal of internal strength which is tempered with genuine compassion and that is very rare to see. You have also helped my friend shadowplay. Just thought I would let you know that it means a lot to me.

Oh wow, thanks! Didn't know you thought this but appreciate you expressing it.

[veggirl]

ES I think that you should send him a text: Hey there just wanted to make sure we are still on for tomorrow

 

and see what happens.

 

I wonder if sometimes he feels like he has to walk on egg shells around you because you are very sensitive & emotional. I think sometimes it has got to be up to you to calm his worries. What if he is not wanting to talk right now cause he thinks it'll be a dramafest? Just send him a casual, friendly text.

[SmileFace]

I see. So if ES wants to discuss "minor" detailed items, she's overly-focused on details. But if everyone else hones in on "minor" details, it's a big deal and should be treated that way?

 

Hypocrisy anyone?

Where did I say that? Seriously this argument is not one I should have. E.S's L.S journey isn't of importance to me.

 

She only gets crap because she allows it. I really don't understand why she comes to L.S. However don't sit and act like she doesn't dish out the same crap.

 

I do wish E.S the best. Just like I wish anyone else but I won't say she doesn't need help. The help she would not find here. Even if people stop nitpicking with her.

 

I barely post on L.S for advice. You know why? Because I know I can't get the help I need here. I haven't showed a bit of hypocrisity so please. Like I said this arguement isn't one for me to have.

[threebyfate]

I barely post on L.S for advice. You know why? Because I know I can't get the help I need here. I haven't showed a bit of hypocrisity so please. Like I said this arguement isn't one for me to have.

I too have stopped posting any real problems on LS and for the same reason.

 

You're right. I added in something that was from the general crowd and now that you've stated that it's not your argument, consider it withdrawn.

[zengirl]

I see. So if ES wants to discuss "minor" detailed items, she's overly-focused on details. But if everyone else hones in on "minor" details, it's a big deal and should be treated that way?

 

Hypocrisy anyone?

 

I don't think it's a simple either/or.

 

And I don't think most people (the vast majority) are attacking ES or that these tangents are truly helpful. They're pointing out blind spots, which may or may not be true, and may or may not be helpful. Nobody here is really claiming "truth" are they?

 

At the end, it all gets hopelessly lost in ego. Which is all I see with ES bringing up the last guy and how she was "right" about that situation (in her view) and all sorts of people on LS were "wrong" because he apologizes to her now. All that discussion asserts is ego.

 

I rarely think anything is as simple in life as "That guy is no good" or "You are no good" or "That girl is no good." (Wouldn't that be lovely and simple?) It's all about where people are and the reactions produced together.