Survey: Would you date a MTF transsexual?

[Mrlonelyone]

Well it's heartening to see so much support for transgender people here and from unexpected directions.

 

Trans, bi, yes

 

But they would have to knock my socks off. Strangely to me being with another trans woman or man would feel "homosexual" if that makes sense. I had an odd sort of relationship with a roomate we didn't have sex of any kind with eachother but we did everything else together and shared many of the same men. That's as close as I have come to that.

 

To the OP:

 

I have lived as a bigendered person all my life. Let me make this clear to you... when I look like a woman I look 95% like a woman yet with a little change in dress or haircut and I can look almost as much like a gender normative man. (Sometimes it even confuses me.) Here is my perspective on what you loose when you transition.

 

In general though a person looses more when they waited longer. Think of it as a spectrum. One one end you have a MTF who was a feminine gender non conforming boy who comes out as some kind of transgender as soon as they can. On the other end someoen who was gender conforming all their life and they come out at a much latter age say 40 or 50 ish. The young one isn't going to loose as much since they will have a life built around people who accept them in all their fabulasness. While the older one will have a life built often around people who are averagely transphobic.

 

So it depends.

 

@Enchanted girl.

 

Yes you are very right most people just reject whoever society tells them to and don't really think about it. Thinking is the hardest thing you can ask a person to do I guess.

 

@UL

 

No this is not me. Though your commets were thoughtful and prove that reptiles like you do indeed have more than just basal ganglia.

Edited May 30, 2011 by Mrlonelyone

[Feelsgoodman]

LOL. Except being fat makes you unhealthy and can kill you by heart attack. Gambling addictions can take away all your money. And being an alcoholic destroys your liver.

 

While being a transsexual person does absolutely nothing negative to you except cause a lot of social rejection, which is something the rest of us can control and get over.

Do you seriously think that the highly invasive surgery, combined with hormone replacement therapy, that accompany a sex change operation have no negative impact on a person's health?? Now THAT calls for a "LOL".

[Xaphirus]

Do you seriously think that the highly invasive surgery, combined with hormone replacement therapy, that accompany a sex change operation have no negative impact on a person's health?? Now THAT calls for a "LOL".

Give it a rest. Nobody cares.

[Enchanted Girl]

Do you seriously think that the highly invasive surgery, combined with hormone replacement therapy, that accompany a sex change operation have no negative impact on a person's health?? Now THAT calls for a "LOL".

 

I've had serious surgery on my jaw before, so I know that surgeries can be extremely painful and hard to recover from, but long term damage? No, it doesn't have that.

 

Remember, I have a friend who got this surgery and she's told me all about it. Her vagina's fine now!

[Feelsgoodman]

I've had serious surgery on my jaw before, so I know that surgeries can be extremely painful and hard to recover from, but long term damage? No, it doesn't have that.

 

Remember, I have a friend who got this surgery and she's told me all about it. Her vagina's fine now!

This has got to be the most ignorant statement I've ever read on this board. Are you seriously comparing fixing a broken jawbone to a sex change operation??? I am speechless!

 

Clearly you have no clue of the negative side effects of hormone replacement therapy (i.e. increased risk of cancer and heart disease), let alone the risks associated with the surgical procedure itself (which, I would suggest to you, is a little more complicated than fixing a broken jaw).

[oaks]

I am speechless!

 

Evidently not.

[utterer of lies]

Give it a rest. Nobody cares.

 

But as someone who's a candidate for that operation, shouldn't you be doubly interested in potential negative side effects?

[Enchanted Girl]

This has got to be the most ignorant statement I've ever read on this board. Are you seriously comparing fixing a broken jawbone to a sex change operation??? I am speechless!

 

Clearly you have no clue of the negative side effects of hormone replacement therapy (i.e. increased risk of cancer and heart disease), let alone the risks associated with the surgical procedure itself (which, I would suggest to you, is a little more complicated than fixing a broken jaw).

 

Actually, I think you're just ignorant about how jaw surgery works and how serious it is.

 

And hormone replacement therapy side effects are identical to the side effects I risk by taking birth control pills, which all sexually active women pretty much take anyway.

[Feelsgoodman]

And hormone replacement therapy side effects are identical to the side effects I risk by taking birth control pills, which all sexually active women pretty much take anyway.

Another absurd statement. In any event, I'm done arguing with you. You can believe whatever you want.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Female

Straight

No

 

Because I am only attracted to men. If I was attracted to a person, though, and also found out that we really liked each other and "connected," I wouldn't care if they were a transsexual or not.

 

For the record, I had a friend who was a MTF transsexual. (I met him / her when she was still living as a man - he responded to my personal ad in an urban weekly paper! As a man or a woman, she only liked women) She was a deeply unhappy person on many levels. After being on hormone therapy as well as counseling (as required for the reassignment surgery), having breast implants and living as a woman for almost 20 years, she finally did have the surgery.

 

Two years following the surgery, she committed suicide.

 

In her case, she was miserable all her life and never worked on the issues that made her so, believing that it was all gender related. Which it may have been, but it had manifested itself on every level imaginable.

 

She focussed to an almost narcissistic extreme upon her external self, and that made it hard to enjoy being her friend, and after years, rendered her fairly superficial. She also had fantasized for so many years about being a beautiful woman that I don't think she was emotionally or psychologically prepared to fully, physically become the decidedly NOT beautiful, middle aged woman that she was post surgery.

 

She was expecting this pivotal event, the surgery, to finally make her "happy" and it did not. She couldn't handle it.

[Xaphirus]

But as someone who's a candidate for that operation, shouldn't you be doubly interested in potential negative side effects?

I have spent days worth of time researching all you can know about being a transsexual and the operations/procedures included in transition. Yes I'm concerned, of course. But I already know what is needed to know, and anything Feelsgoodman has to offer me can be found elsewhere, by an unbiased professional.

 

Female

Straight

No

 

Because I am only attracted to men. If I was attracted to a person, though, and also found out that we really liked each other and "connected," I wouldn't care if they were a transsexual or not.

 

For the record, I had a friend who was a MTF transsexual. (I met him / her when she was still living as a man - he responded to my personal ad in an urban weekly paper! As a man or a woman, she only liked women) She was a deeply unhappy person on many levels. After being on hormone therapy as well as counseling (as required for the reassignment surgery), having breast implants and living as a woman for almost 20 years, she finally did have the surgery.

 

Two years following the surgery, she committed suicide.

 

In her case, she was miserable all her life and never worked on the issues that made her so, believing that it was all gender related. Which it may have been, but it had manifested itself on every level imaginable.

 

She focussed to an almost narcissistic extreme upon her external self, and that made it hard to enjoy being her friend, and after years, rendered her fairly superficial. She also had fantasized for so many years about being a beautiful woman that I don't think she was emotionally or psychologically prepared to fully, physically become the decidedly NOT beautiful, middle aged woman that she was post surgery.

 

She was expecting this pivotal event, the surgery, to finally make her "happy" and it did not. She couldn't handle it.

 

Transsexuals have a higher chance of suicide than any other group of people in the world, if I remember correctly. However, I don't consider myself one of them. My life isn't all depressive and such, I'm actually an extremely happy person. I just so happen to identify as female as well, which is the only problem in my life. Hopefully that won't turn out so bad. This is why I'm gonna give myself a lot of time before I decide to have surgery.

Edited May 30, 2011 by Xaphirus

[Feelsgoodman]

She was expecting this pivotal event, the surgery, to finally make her "happy" and it did not.

This goes to the root of it, I think. People assume that they can fix their issues with one bold stroke...and it never works out that way.

[Queen Zenobia]

This goes to the root of it, I think. People assume that they can fix their issues with one bold stroke...and it never works out that way.

 

"Never" is an extreme statement. I'd be willing to believe that "often" or even "most of the time" one event (surgery) will not immediately make someone more happy. But, at the same time, a person probably won't be any happier continuing to be anatomically a different gender than they feel they truly are. And I doubt therapy alone (i.e. convincing themselves that they really are the gender indicated by their private parts) can change that.

[Xaphirus]

This goes to the root of it, I think. People assume that they can fix their issues with one bold stroke...and it never works out that way.

Well it's not like you just walk into the hospital and have your boys chopped off. You must be on HRT and living part-time as a woman for a significant amount of time (6 months if I recall) before you are even legally allowed to have a sex change in the United States. That is plenty of time to work things out in your life and make a well-supported decision on whether or not this is right for you.

Edited May 30, 2011 by Xaphirus

[Feelsgoodman]

Well it's not like you just walk into the hospital and have your boys chopped off. You must be on HRT and living part-time as a woman for a significant amount of time (6 months if I recall) before you are even legally allowed to have a sex change in the United States. That is plenty of time to work things out in your life and make a well-supported decision on whether or not this is right for you.

Clearly, you missed my point...

[Xaphirus]

Clearly, you missed my point...

Clearly. -_-

[Enchanted Girl]

Another absurd statement. In any event, I'm done arguing with you. You can believe whatever you want.

 

Those side effects you listed are also side effects of birth control pills. Those and strokes. And you also have to realize that by taking birth control pills women are replacing their own hormones with different, more intense ones.

 

And we're doing it for something we don't even NEED. You can survive without sex. And yet there's lots of women who die of heart attacks and strokes because of it.

 

"Never" is an extreme statement. I'd be willing to believe that "often" or even "most of the time" one event (surgery) will not immediately make someone more happy. But, at the same time, a person probably won't be any happier continuing to be anatomically a different gender than they feel they truly are. And I doubt therapy alone (i.e. convincing themselves that they really are the gender indicated by their private parts) can change that.

 

I agree.

 

I think the problem wasn't that that woman got a sex change. I think that a good combination of both sex change and therapy can lead to a very emotionally happy person.

 

Also, is anyone really surprised by the suicide rate when people come on to threads like this and insult their choices to this extreme and call them gross? Who says they killed themselves over changing their gender and not over the fact that society refused to ever accept them how they are?

[johan]

To me homosexuality, trans-genders, transvestism, bisexuality, and all the outside-the-mainstream orientations are just surreal. I try not to judge, but it's just something I've never gotten used to. Admittedly I've had little exposure to any of it either. But when I am, I just get a bit wierded out. Live and let live, of course, but I'm not planning to participate.

[daphne]

Female.

Straight.

No.

No.

No.

 

Not if I was a male or female (opposite trans gender.)

 

I have empathy for those that go through it, but it is beyond the scope of my understanding and whereas I don't hate people that are different from me, I would not feel remotely comfortable dating one. But then again, I've already cut out 95% of the male population already. What's .00125% more?

[Scottdmw]

LOL. Except being fat makes you unhealthy and can kill you by heart attack. Gambling addictions can take away all your money. And being an alcoholic destroys your liver.

 

While being a transsexual person does absolutely nothing negative to you except cause a lot of social rejection, which is something the rest of us can control and get over. I mean, seriously, all these people probably think they would fight for equal rights of african americans and women if they lived two hundred years ago, but you all prove that you are judgemental against whatever groups society tells you to, so you wouldn't be. Being black doesn't hurt anything, having a vagina doesn't hurt anything, and I have yet to hear how being transsexual hurts something. All it does is teach people how ignorant and unaccepting they are.

 

Now, the rest of my post is directed to several other people on here in general . . . .

 

One of my best friends in person was born a hermaphrodite, but she had enough of a penis (even though it looked funny) that the doctor declared her male, so she was raised as a male the majority of her life. It wasn't until she was 16 years old, after she had been getting stomach cramps every month (because she was having a period and it was leaking into her organs), after she had developed c-cup breasts, curvy hips, and found out that she was only attracted to men, did the doctor test her blood and find out that she had less testosterone than the average female and a whole bunch of estrogen. Her "penis" never grew or developed by the way.

 

Her chromosones are NOT "XX", so technically by your definition she's not a woman, but everything about her is feminine. Now that she's gotten corrective surgery for her genitals, she's complete. She didn't need anything else. Her and I pig out on ice cream and cry over romance movies. We both get PMS and talk about how sexy certain men are. We both can talk for hours and are very emotional. She's just as much a woman as me, even though her chromosones aren't "XX" like mine are. And it PISSES ME OFF when people like you or anyone else say otherwise. When people insist that she has to fit some third category of gender when she is very much female and doesn't feel like she needs to be fit into some random gender on the side.

 

In fact, lol, straight men date her all the time and she often doesn't talk to them at all about her past. In fact, there are guys all over her and they can't ever tell the difference, but then she tells them the truth about her and they flip out and pretend that they could tell all along and that she's gross. In fact, her current boyfriend almost broke-up with her because he's really religious, told a priest about her past, and the priest said he'd go to hell for homosexual relations. SHE HAS A VAGINA. ITS NOT HOMOSEXUAL. OMG. SHE'S A WOMAN. Stop being terrified of someone that doesn't fit perfectly into some stupid mold.

 

And its just that we choose to have this standard. Have you guys heard of Fa'fafine? They are people who are biologically male who dress, behave and identify as women in Samoan culture:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fafafine

 

They are actually completely accepted there and parents of Fa'fafine are proud of them.

 

Not only that, but straight men sleep with them (because in their culture its how someone ACTS that defines their gender and not their parts) and aren't labeled as gay or bisexual.

 

In fact, fa'fafine only sleep with straight men. They don't sleep with each other because it would be to them like going into a lesbian relationship and they don't sleep with women. Just straight men.

 

And yet a lot of them have not gotten and never will get sex changes.

 

It's US westerners who invented these labels and stick to them. =/ And we can easily get over them too, but we continue to choose to judge without having any rational reason for doing so, except that we can't fit them into either gender (how we'd like to fit them in) and therefore they should supposedly be treated like freaks or diseased human beings.

 

 

 

In many/most cases, becoming a transsexual destroys a person's ability to have children.

 

Maybe you think that's not really a bad effect? If there was a disease out there that caused sterility, people would consider that to be a very serious disease. You would see people walking around with face masks if it could be caught the way a cold is, staying home from work even. There would be a massive public outcry and fear. Most people would consider it to be a serious danger.

 

There are some transsexuals of course who are already infertile due to hormonal or developmental problems. But, my impression is they are not the majority.

 

So, I think it is clear beyond a shadow of a doubt that becoming a transsexual for many carries at least that serious health consequence.

 

I know you want to be accepting of everybody, completely unbiased, completely unprejudiced, open to all. This is considered to be a great good by our society right now. But, I think people take it too far when they deny obvious harms like this in order to present a one-sided picture of something. There are costs to this decision, yet most people don't talk about them at all. No one wants to be thought of as judgmental, and they find it far easier just to tell everyone “do whatever you want and that's great! You know best. I support you all the way!” Is that really the best way to help someone? Can't we at least talk about the costs, the benefits and risks on both sides of the issue?

 

The amount of hormones and associated risks taken by a transsexual is I believe significantly higher than what you would see in a birth control pill. I doubt anyone has done such a study, but I suspect that it is at least as risky as being fat. Even the birth control pill, as you point out, has risks.

 

I don't know what the health risks of gender reassignment surgery are compared to jaw surgery. Every surgery has risks though. People can and do die from these kinds of things, albeit not commonly.

 

Usually when people decide to have surgery they weigh the benefits versus the risks. For jaw surgery, assuming the surgery goes as planned the known benefit is that your jaw will be fixed. For transgender surgery there is no known benefit. A person HOPES it will make them happier and better adjusted. They HOPE they will feel more natural. I'm not aware of any study or evidence that indicates this is likely to be the case, or what the odds of success in making the person happier are. I doubt there are any medical tests that can be performed (or psychological ones either) to provide evidence that a given transsexual will benefit or not. It's left up to the person to figure this out for themselves, usually based on nothing more than hope or desperation. There are certainly transsexuals around who don't seem to be that much happier afterwards than before--one such case was mentioned by another poster. I personally know another. So, with this surgery people are weighing an uncertain unknown benefit against a certain and definite risk.

 

You bring up the example of the Samoan culture. There are many cultures out there that socialized people to do barbaric things like cannibalism. These cultures feel it is normal and natural to kill and eat other humans. Their parents are proud of them when they do that. So, I don't think you can say that just because a culture exists that does something that means that whatever they do is a good thing or should be imitated.

 

I know you want to help people, you want to defend them against what you perceive as judgmentalism. Please just think about whether you are really helping though by ignoring these risks.

 

Scott

[Enchanted Girl]

I'm not "ignoring" the risks because sex change surgeries aren't as easy to get as you claim they are.

 

You have to go through psychological treatments and evaluations and live as a man/woman (whatever you are becoming) for at least six months before you are able to get the surgery to make sure you can handle it. The therapists and doctors tell you all the risks. They tell you how your life will be changed forever and how you can't go back to how you were exactly before. They tell you about the pain you will receive physically and the social rejection you are going to have to live with all your life. They talk about the sacrifices you have to make and how you'll probably lose most of the people you used to know because it will be hard for them to accept you now.

 

I'm very supportive of transsexuals being prepared and educated about what will happen to them if they get this surgery (its required that they are educated like this by law and I agree with that law), but that doesn't mean I'm going to agree with you and say they should never have it.

 

I still think most of their problem is social rejection. Fa'fafine don't have a high suicide rate because they are celebrated in their culture. They are happy the way they are and even proudly try to teach nephews of theirs to be the same way (if that child feels like it is right.)

 

I agree with you that if there was a disease that made people infertile, it would be a terrible disease, but this isn't disease. All diseases do is destroy the body, but sex changes have the potential to make people happy and give them the body parts they've always wished to have.

 

I believe that you guys knew people who got sex changes that killed themselves, but that's a lot because hanging out with my friend who was a hermaphrodite showed me how much social rejection and fear people who dare to step out in this was receive for it.

 

I've also known someone who didn't receive the surgery because they were unable to get through the psychological evaluations and six months of living as a man (they are a woman) and they decided to remain a woman, so its really not as easy as you make it out to be.

[Queen Zenobia]

I'm not "ignoring" the risks because sex change surgeries aren't as easy to get as you claim they are.

 

You have to go through psychological treatments and evaluations and live as a man/woman (whatever you are becoming) for at least six months before you are able to get the surgery to make sure you can handle it. The therapists and doctors tell you all the risks. They tell you how your life will be changed forever and how you can't go back to how you were exactly before. They tell you about the pain you will receive physically and the social rejection you are going to have to live with all your life. They talk about the sacrifices you have to make and how you'll probably lose most of the people you used to know because it will be hard for them to accept you now.

 

I'm very supportive of transsexuals being prepared and educated about what will happen to them if they get this surgery (its required that they are educated like this by law and I agree with that law), but that doesn't mean I'm going to agree with you and say they should never have it.

 

I still think most of their problem is social rejection. Fa'fafine don't have a high suicide rate because they are celebrated in their culture. They are happy the way they are and even proudly try to teach nephews of theirs to be the same way (if that child feels like it is right.)

 

I agree with you that if there was a disease that made people infertile, it would be a terrible disease, but this isn't disease. All diseases do is destroy the body, but sex changes have the potential to make people happy and give them the body parts they've always wished to have.

 

I believe that you guys knew people who got sex changes that killed themselves, but that's a lot because hanging out with my friend who was a hermaphrodite showed me how much social rejection and fear people who dare to step out in this was receive for it.

 

I've also known someone who didn't receive the surgery because they were unable to get through the psychological evaluations and six months of living as a man (they are a woman) and they decided to remain a woman, so its really not as easy as you make it out to be.

 

Agreed. I think the people who are against sex change operations are under the impression that those who are trans-sexual will one day wake up and say "you know what, I really am a boy/girl" (whatever gender their private parts indicate) just like they believe that one day gay people will wake up and say "hey I'm not gay". I don't claim to know the ins and outs of sex change operations or even how trans-sexuals must feel about their situation, but I think I am wise enough to know not to criticize others for it.

[utterer of lies]

I still think most of their problem is social rejection.

 

But it's not. The problem is that they want to be something they can never be, and operations aren't really going to help. As mentioned before, the sex change is seen as this unique, singular event that will finally make everything ok.

 

 

Well, it's not. When they wake up the next day, they are still themselves. Depression and all the other psychological problems don't just disappear. It's not that easy.

 

You blame society - but most their problems are not caused by external factors.

 

 

There's this study that shows that one year after winning the lottery and one year after becoming a quadriplegic, people are as happy as they were before that event. Why should this be any different?

Edited May 31, 2011 by utterer of lies

[Feelsgoodman]

Agreed. I think the people who are against sex change operations are under the impression that those who are trans-sexual will one day wake up and say "you know what, I really am a boy/girl" (whatever gender their private parts indicate) just like they believe that one day gay people will wake up and say "hey I'm not gay".

Actually, for some people, sexual orientation is a fluid concept and can change over time (this is even acknowledged by the APA, in case you think I'm making this up).

 

Admittedly, I'm not an expert on transsexuals, but it would seem logical that their self-image as either male or female could also be fluid. Just because one feels that he is a woman trapped in a man's body, doesn't mean that person will always feel that way.

[Scottdmw]

I'm not "ignoring" the risks because sex change surgeries aren't as easy to get as you claim they are.

 

You have to go through psychological treatments and evaluations and live as a man/woman (whatever you are becoming) for at least six months before you are able to get the surgery to make sure you can handle it. The therapists and doctors tell you all the risks. They tell you how your life will be changed forever and how you can't go back to how you were exactly before. They tell you about the pain you will receive physically and the social rejection you are going to have to live with all your life. They talk about the sacrifices you have to make and how you'll probably lose most of the people you used to know because it will be hard for them to accept you now.

 

Fair enough.

 

 

 

I agree with you that if there was a disease that made people infertile, it would be a terrible disease, but this isn't disease. All diseases do is destroy the body, but sex changes have the potential to make people happy and give them the body parts they've always wished to have.

 

It depends on the definition of disease. What we have here is a “condition” for want of a better word that gives people a strong desire to alter their body in such a way that they won't be able to have children.

 

In anorexia, a person has a strong desire to be thinner, even to an extremely unhealthy level. The person believes they are fat when they are not. Their mental picture of their own body does not conform to reality. The person may do things that are self-harmful in an effort to make their body conform to their desired image of it.

 

Other people get into “cutting” where they slice open their skin and intentionally mutilate themselves. It makes them happier (or less unhappy) to do so.

 

I think most people agree that those two are diseases. I understand you feel that transgender surgery is different because it will hopefully (not for certain) make the recipients happier. For me though I'm not sure why we wouldn't call this a disease.

 

Let's imagine a hypothetical condition where a person wishes to not have arms. The person really wants that. They would truly be happier if their arms were cut off. Would we call that a disease and try to help the person understand they are great the way they are? Or, would we say “Well, you've spent six months thinking about it, and you're still sure you want to have no arms. We will go ahead and do it.” Even if it turns out to be true, and for some reason the person is happier without arms, is that a good outcome? Would it be better if we replaced the arms with non-functional wings because that's what the person wanted, because that is their own mental image of themselves?

 

It's very hard for me to see the difference between that and transgender surgery. It seems like we are helping people harm themselves because we would rather not deal with finding a more difficult better answer.

 

Scott